"Don't Lift Up" w. Nina Hoss | Crooked Media
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November 02, 2022
Keep It
"Don't Lift Up" w. Nina Hoss

In This Episode

Ira, Louis, and guest host Brittany Luse discuss Rihanna’s return to music in Wakanda Forever and their favorite film soundtracks, celebrity Halloween costumes, Elon Musk buying Twitter, the demise of the Billboard Hot 100, and Heartstopper’s Kit Connor being bullied into coming out. Plus, Nina Hoss joins to discuss her role in TAR, German cinema, and more.




Ira Madison III [AD]


Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel I’m Louis Virtel. We are thankfully done with Halloween. I don’t have to tomb raid anymore. I was original recipe Lara Croft for the second time and I don’t know what it is about me or gay men that are so into this character. She she clearly has an anthropology degree. So maybe that speaks to us. I have not I have I have no answer. I don’t know. I can’t explain it.


Ira Madison III Well, to be fair, Louis, you have about three Halloween costumes that you have cycled through through the ten years I’ve known you.


Louis Virtel Yeah, no, I believe it should be like swimsuits. You just don’t like a couple, and then we do. They’re like characters in your repertoire. You bring them back, and we’re thrilled to see them.


Ira Madison III Anyway, we are very excited to have a co-host join us this week. I’ve had the pleasure of being on her podcast For Colored Nerds. I’ve been on The Nod and now she is the new host of It’s Been a Minute on NPR. Welcome to Keep It Brittany Luse.


Brittany Luse Thank you. I’m so excited to be here, y’all. And y’all don’t even know.


Louis Virtel We’re not nerds at all, though, so I don’t even know why you would be excited about that. In fact, I’m insulted.


Ira Madison III You do have the colored part down though, Louis.


Louis Virtel The color is unfortunately gray pink part that. Yeah.


Ira Madison III This is exciting because we just had Sam Sanders on and I feel like, you know, he just passed the torch to you with. It’s Been a Minute which Louis and I have both been on in the past. So this feels like an entire like podcast Cinematic Universe.


Brittany Luse I think that’s pretty accurate. It’s funny because like literally also Sam’s I mean, he’s hosting Into It at Vulture, but also he has another show, Vibe Check, that was like like he and his co-host from Vibe Check were literally just on For Colored Nerds like a month ago. So it’s just like I’m like, is it I’m like, is it a multiverse or does do all black people in media know each other? What is it?


Ira Madison III I think it’s both.


Brittany Luse Yeah.


Ira Madison III Um, we are very excited to get into our Halloween postmortem. Which the. I guess that’s a pun postmortem.


Louis Virtel Yeah. I’ll allow it.


Ira Madison III Halloween.


Louis Virtel Amongst pun-styled things from you. I’m going to allow it.


Ira Madison III Thank you. Thank you. We’re going to get into Halloween costumes and things in a bit. We’re going to talk about the long awaited return of Rihanna and what we think about that. So we also have a interview, Louis, that I chat with Nina Hoss, who is fantastic, opposite Cate Blanchett in Tar.


Louis Virtel When real talent wanders its way into the zoom. I mean, my instinct is to feel bad for them, like, oh, no, they’re going to realize we’re, you know, nerds. I mean, the word is come up again, but man, is she fabulous? And of course, fabulous in Tar.


Ira Madison III You know you could always tell a real talent is on this podcast when had a gobbler gets brought up.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Woof. And I and I brought her up like she was, you know, Mariah Carey ringing in the holiday season. So get ready.


Ira Madison III And also, before we get started, we are reminding our listeners that this week is very important because it is the final few days leading up to Election Day, what some people call GOTV. Get out the vote. And let me tell you, it took me an embarrassing long time as an adult to realize what GOTV meant.


Brittany Luse Same. I thought it was a channel. I thought it was like Revolt or something like that. Like back in the day. I don’t  get that one, I don’t think.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Deep in the dial channel, like near Reelz Channel.


Brittany Luse Yeah, I was. I was definitely like, I am. I knew what Get Out The Vote was I was just like, hmm, sounds eerily like Go TV. I don’t but I’m not seeing the overlap.


Louis Virtel Ira, what is your voting plan?


Ira Madison III My voting plan is last minute voting in person because I am I have been back and forth from New York to L.A. so often, but I don’t know where my voting booklet is, so I’m going to do it in person. I’m doing it in person.


Louis Virtel Mm hmm. Tommy Vietor is going to physically pick you up and remove you from the Crooked universe for saying such nonsense.


Ira Madison III I’ve got my voting guide. I know who I’m voting for, but I’m going to do it in person. And honestly, there’s something about going to vote at the middle school by my apartment and saying hi to the people working and getting the nice sticker and walking out into the crisp November weather in L.A..


Brittany Luse No, I mean, the last time I went to vote in person a couple of months ago in August, I saw Eric Adams. So outside of the club.


Ira Madison III I’m sorry.


Brittany Luse An appearance outside of club. So, I mean, you never know what you’re going to get when you go vote in person. That’s true.


Louis Virtel I just want to say on this topic, somebody I know brought their kid to a birthday party recently here in L.A. and Elon Musk was there. How about that? Just his bone chilling, just walking around somewhere and you can just see him. It’s really shocking.


Ira Madison III I will say the one weird thing about Elon taking over Twitter is that he’s reminding me a lot like Jack when Jack was writing Twitter, like what? Jack would be like a nerd and respond to people’s tweets for some damn reason. It made perfect sense for Elon Musk to be responding to Stephen King saying when Stephen King said $20 for verification is maybe a bit too much. And Elon’s like, Well, we have to make money. Would you pay $8, Stephen King? What a loser.


Louis Virtel Doing his little Oliver act. No, on that front, of course, he’s responding to the celebrity who is basically calling him uncool. Like it’s only egotistical, you know, that makes sense that he would respond to that. Anyway, I’m getting into my voting plan, which is I have my booklet right next to me and it has the sticker on it that I’m not peeling off until I actually do the work. But I’m going to go run it to the booth right down the street, which is, I believe, also at a middle school. And it feels, you know, I’m like a mental millennial and a part of me. I’m gen-z. I don’t understand putting things in the mail, so I have to go walk to a station and drop it off. I’m 21 years old.


Ira Madison III Well, we shared our voting plan with you all. And remember that Election Day is coming right around the corner. So make a plan, figure out who you’re voting for and go to VoteSaveAmerica.com/volunteer where you can find out more information about what you can do in your area. And if you live in Los Angeles, please do not follow Gwyneth Paltrow’s voting guide that she put on Instagram.


Louis Virtel Oh, she should be forced to act again so she doesn’t have the time to make these posts. I’m telling you, get into the talented Mr. Ripley sequel.


Ira Madison III All right. We will be right back with more. Keep It. Rihanna has returned to the music industry with Lift Me Up, the lead single on the soundtrack to Black Panther, Wakanda Forever. And while the single was highly anticipated. I am no longer anticipating.


Louis Virtel The anticipation period is over. We have done it. It was lovely while it lasted and now we’re moving on.


Brittany Luse I thought it was pretty.


Louis Virtel I actually concur. I think there’s something engrossing about the song.


Brittany Luse I don’t know about engrossing, I think it’s pretty. And I but I will say, like, I listened to it in the morning and I forgot about it by the evening. I forgot. I forgot. She put out a song. I what the song was I forgot how it sounded. I forgot the name. I try I’m trying to be respectful and thinking about it because I know she’s like, I did it for Chadwick Boseman and I adored him. And so I’m like, you know, that’s a lovely thing to do for somebody. But taking that apart, I don’t know if I don’t know if it was I it didn’t move me to see the movie. It didn’t move me to, like, want to listen to the song again. You know.


Ira Madison III It’s lovely. It feels like it’s a tribute to Chadwick Boseman. But also, I feel like. Sing it at a memorial or something. You know, as the lead thing to a movie, and maybe it’s going to be different when it rolls over the credits. And I’m sad and I’ve heard the movie is very stirring, but a lot of the responses from people defending it, knee jerk, were it’s a tribute, you know, like, what are you expecting from it? And music history is full of tributes to people who have passed. And those songs are great. Candle in the Wind, for instance.


Brittany Luse I was just going to say Candle in the Wind. And honestly Diddy’s only, like Diddy’s best song like.


Ira Madison III Yes, right. I’ll be Missing You.


Brittany Luse Like a tribute to Biggie. It’s a great song. It’s a great song.


Louis Virtel I also feel like another thing people are saying to defend this is, oh, well, it’s supposed to be a lullaby to which we’re we all out here begging for lullabies. I mean.


Brittany Luse She actually said, to fact check, Rihanna said, I’m not going to make y’all wait all this time and then come back with a lullaby. And what did she do?


Louis Virtel Right. Here it is. Lulling us. Right.


Ira Madison III Are we not used to her lying to us?


Louis Virtel That’s true. She does lie constantly. But I’m just saying. Let’s say there was a Billboard Hot 100 Lullabies chart. I feel like it would still come in at number nine. Like, people are not thrilled about it. Secondly, it also feels to me like the end of a song, not an entire song, which I think is the main problem.


Brittany Luse I think I agree. There’s like I mean, this is a thing Rihanna is kind of in a way pop ballad princess. So I don’t think it’s strange that the song has a lullaby quality. I don’t think it’s strange of the song is not upbeat. I saw these tweets are people are like, y’all want Rihanna to do a tribute to Chadwick Boseman that sounded like, you know, Wild Thoughts. And I’m like, no. What I I wanted was something maybe a little bit you know, you mentioned, Ira, that the film has been said to be stirring like, I think that Diamond, you know what I’m saying? Like Diamonds. That’s a stirring, stirring song. And I think that, like, I don’t know, I just feel like there was a piece of the song missing, like, the bridge or like, I just. I didn’t feel like it built to anything. I think it’s pretty as it is. And I love Tems. And, you know, I’m glad that she wrote the song. I’m happy for her. I love to see her success. But I just feel like for both of these artists, for a movie such as this huge occasion, this is a tribute to Chadwick Boseman, beloved actor who’s not going to be in the sequel. It just is so strange to me that they made a song with no. You know what I mean? Like, there’s no. No.


Ira Madison III There’s no oomph, no oomph.


Brittany Luse Yeah.


Ira Madison III There’s there’s. And also pre this people were excited for this song because we want Rihanna on the red carpet at the Oscars. You know, we want her to shut down the red carpet. And this doesn’t even feel like a song that would be nominated for an Oscar. You know, like it’s it’s barely even Skyfall.


Brittany Luse You took literally you took the words. I was thinking like Skyfall, that is a group Skyfall by Adele great Bond song and super into it. That is one I don’t know it’s that when I think about like a big blockbuster film ballad like a Skyfall or, you know, that sort of thing, I feel like you just got to go big. You’ve got to be Shirley Bassey. You’ve got to be a little bit like not to say that Adele herself is cheesy, but I think she was channeling some of like that fifties sixties flair with Skyfall in like a way that I think was a cheesy in a good way. I feel like you kind of have to go for it a little bit. Like, I don’t know. I mean, think about like, okay, prince of Egypt, baby, when you believe, okay, that’s what I’m talking about. Like, I just feel like Rihanna should have gone in that sort of direction. I think you had I don’t know if you can play it pretty and cool when you’re doing like an Oscar winning type of ballad for a film.


Louis Virtel Also, it’s strange because we’re in a year where it’s a very star studded cast of potential nominees in that world where like Lady Gaga might get in for Hold My Hand, another song where it’s like, what? There’s a missing element here. It’s like they forgot to make an entire song. They, like, put down 75% of it. And then, you know what it sounds like to me? You know, the famous story of Prince made When Doves Cry. And then he’s like, What’s the last thing I can do to make this magical? And he took out the bass line, and then somehow it became more amazing. This it feels like they took something out, thought it was better, and then accidentally they deleted most of the song.


Ira Madison III The rest of the song is on Lana Del Rey’s computer, actually.


Louis Virtel Yeah, actually.


Ira Madison III It’s just missing now. Speaking of Hold My Hand too, like if that’s supposed to be in the soundtrack category, that’s like, isn’t giving either.


Louis Virtel No. I have friends who claim that that’s like the most emotional part of the movie. It’s right at the end. There’s his relationship, Tom Cruise, his relationship with Miles Teller is solidified. Before that, he, you know, reunites with Val Kilmer in the movie and it sort of culminates with that song. Meanwhile, even just the words hold my hand like Hootie did that, like we don’t need to revisit it is.


Ira Madison III It is not the most emotional part of that movie either. Like you get to the end of the movie and you know, if you’re a man, especially a man who loves Tom Cruise like me, you’re already crying from him, you know, reuniting with with Miles Teller. What? But then the end feels like a coda. And then what he walks up to, he’s there at the car, and then you just hear Lady Gaga wailing Hold my hand, hold my hand, and I’m like, this is this actually taking me out of the film and out of the theater.


Brittany Luse Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. I feel like there’s just like these. I don’t know if movie soundtracks are hitting the way that they used to hit. I feel like I mean, they always have been. Not always. But I would say at least for the last 30, maybe 40 years, they’ve been used as like a promotional tool. But now sometimes it feels a little too naked, if that makes sense. Like, I mean, okay, like even like Will Smith’s Men in Black Song again has a specific cheesiness to it. It obviously was a marketing ploy. He knew that he was a famous rapper, I guess, at that time, and he knew he wanted to Mr. 4th of July. But there’s still like it still feels like a complete song. Whether you love it or whether you hate it, it still feels like a complete song. And I think that it absolutely hits with like the ten year olds they were trying to reach who wanted to see Men in Black. Whereas like, I don’t know, I think that for a film like Black Panther, which kind of bills itself as I think a lot smarter and more textured than your average superhero movie. You kind of want to have a more textured ballad to go with it. Or even like, okay, I never saw Top Gun. I also I realized recently I’m only I’m just now starting to watch Tom Cruise movies. He just wasn’t really a part of my life until three months ago. And so I went to see Top Gun 2, like, knowing nothing. I left in tears. I didn’t know any of the references. I didn’t know who they were referring to. I’m glad that they repeated everything so much for people like me, because I didn’t know what the fuck was going on, but by the end I was crying. I feel like that movie was satisfying in every single way. And then, like you said, we get to the very end and yet, you know, and then we have Lady Gaga, who, by the way, hair, body, face. Why did you do that? I mean the entire.


Louis Virtel The hits.


Brittany Luse The entire A Star is Born soundtrack had me in a chokehold. I was getting up every day at 6:00 in the morning and playing it from my phone in the bed, singing in my husband’s face. He was so disturbed. But like, that’s the kind of that’s what I’m expecting from Gaga when she’s on the soundtrack. And I kind of wish to have such a type of film that was so satisfying in every other way. I wish that Gaga had a satisfying song to go with it, you know?


Louis Virtel And she tried to over sing it into being a better song, too, which only pointed out where it was lacking. And I mean, God love the girl. I mean, like, if Lady Gaga didn’t exist, there would be like an ozone layer sized hole in popular culture. I really think she’s important just in the breadth of strange material, of unbelievable earworms she’s given us, but just not that song. And also, it’s like, again, there have been some bad songs that have won Oscars in recent years. You know, like we had, like, the Writing’s on the Wall. Don’t No Time to Die is fine. But like, like, does anybody really even know that H.E.R. song that won, you know? So I feel like the category is, like, dripping lately.


Ira Madison III Does anyone actually know H.E.R. songs or does she just appear at awards shows?


Louis Virtel Right? Yes.


Ira Madison III Inexplicably is strictly walking away with an award like Carmen San Diego, like how did you get in here?


Brittany Luse You know what, though? Like, maybe, but like, kind of for me, I’m like, but I don’t know, like, that’s kind of the best crew to have. Like, no, but everyone’s like who is she? Where did she get? She get here? I never heard her sing. I’ve never heard her speak. And then look out five years. This girl probably have and EGOT and nobody will know not one song. That’s a goal.


Ira Madison III She truly will. I feel like I went to Camp Flog Gnaw a few years ago and honestly, I stopped over at H.E.R. set and it was really good. She knows how to put on a fucking live show. I did not do a single song, but I was I but I was like, I was feeling it, you know? So shout out to H.E.R. Going back to what Louis was saying about even like the Men in Black or something. That is what a movie soundtrack supposed to be, though. It’s a promotional tool, but also it’s supposed to be a thing where 20 years later, we whether or not you’ve seen the movie, you know the movie because you know the song that was in it, you know, like, you know, like I, I can still hear Hero from Spider-Man, Chad Kroeger’s Hero.


Brittany Luse I was, you know, I was bumping that the other night. I was like, Not me listening to Nickelback in the bed. Like, that song is good. That song is good.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s a really good song and it’s something that needs to connect you to just the images that are in a film, I mean, you know, the soundtrack era, is it really here anymore when you don’t have a music video that intersperses clips from the movie with the video like Are You That Somebody or Try Again.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III Aaliyah’s two of our best songs, which were soundtrack entries.


Louis Virtel And by the way, I just want to say that literally every time and this song is still everywhere, I feel like the peak years of it being ironically played everywhere over, but I still hear it. Smash Mouth’s All Star. When I hear that song, I am immediately zapped to the video from Mystery Men.


Brittany Luse Right.


Louis Virtel Where.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel And I’m telling you, I know Janine Garofalo thinks that’s a curse, but her image comes to mind every time I hear that fucking song. And also, like Wes Studi, what a weird cast. But like, that is successful marketing. Like, my God. And that also is from the TRL era where we were like fixed on watching music videos not just one time, but 70 times.


Brittany Luse Mm hmm. That’s a good one.


Ira Madison III Shout out, though, to a song that is the entire video is Mystery Man, and it came from that soundtrack. But if you ask most people what movie that song is from, they would say Shrek.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Yes


Brittany Luse I didn’t think about that. It’s absolutely true.


Ira Madison III Double duty, okay. My question and I was getting into a debate with a friend about this this weekend. Do you prefer a movie soundtrack where it’s like commission. These are all do songs for it. Or do you prefer a theme where it’s like the the director has crafted.


Louis Virtel Jukebox.


Ira Madison III Songs that like jukebox like jukebox of the. Or, you know, like a Tarantino film, you know, where like all the songs on that are specifically what was inspiring the director. Each scene, they’re all in the scenes, etc.. Or do you want just a commission thing where it’s, you know, Diddy gathered a bunch of people and we’re going to make songs based on the feel of the movie, barely based on the feel.


Brittany Luse That’s a really good question. Well, I think that I admire the ambition of commissioned music, because I think that like when like even if it doesn’t go well, you kind of like you can usually get a couple interesting songs out of it. But when it does go well, it goes so well. However, I think I do kind of prefer to listen to most frequently sort of the jukebox when like also I think about a film like Forrest Gump, like the Forrest Gump soundtrack, which like is straight up jukebox, like straight up, just like some of the most popular music in America from like the forties through like the eighties. And I think that, like, they do such a good job of placing you back in the film. Well, when it suits. I mean, there’s also certain, like, I think about like Saturday Night Fever.


Louis Virtel Oh, sure.


Brittany Luse I mean, for I mean, the Bee Gees. First of all, like.


Louis Virtel I’m sorry I said this before to Ira who gave these white men the right? Why is it so good?


Brittany Luse I mean, I’m saying, how did this happen? Like, not me. I mean, literally, I listen to them all the time and cry because their voices are so beautiful. Like that to me is almost like I actually don’t remember. I’m sure I learned it watching the The Bee Gees documentary on HBO, but I don’t even remember whether it was commissioned or whether they based stuff in the film around the music that they’d already made. But like, I kind of think that the ultimate film soundtrack is when you kind of can’t tell, right? You kind of can’t tell whether it was commissioned or whether it was just like exactly what was going to work perfectly for the film at that time. So again, going back to the A Star is Born soundtrack, obviously those were commissioned because they had to be worked into the film. But I mean, like some of my favorite Lady Gaga songs and my favorite Lady Gaga performances, vocal performances come from that soundtrack. So technically they’re commissioned, but also it does I don’t know. It does still kind of feel jukeboxy in a way. But yeah, I mean, I also like have a deep affection for musicals and I recently, more recently began to understand animated movies. I was never really that into cartoons as a child. And so, like as an adult, I really couldn’t get into them. But when I saw Coco, I flooded the theater with tears, first of all. And then second of all, I began singing Remember Me or Recuerdame, both in English and in Spanish every single day, first thing in the morning. I don’t know how I got married after that, actually. I’m really I got proposed to a year later, so it’s for ladies out there. To get it done. But yeah, I kind of think it can work best when it, when it’s like when it’s commissioned, but it still feels like with very within the world of the film, like a Superfly or something like that.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. All right. Well, favorite movie soundtracks from all of us. Go.


Louis Virtel All right. I’ll throw it down quickly. I will say Magnolia, which I brought up recently on this podcast. But obviously Paul Thomas Anderson wrote the movie inspired by the music of Aimee Mann. She ended up writing more songs in turn for it used some songs that were like lying around on an album that she couldn’t get out basically until she bought back the Masters and released it herself. But anyway, I just love that the dryness of her emotional songwriting and also the humor in her emotional songwriting. Like you just believe people when they’re a little bit funny. Like, it really makes the emotional heft of the song feel like it really has sat with them, that they have a sensibility about it that can be a little bit sarcastic or acerbic. I will say there’s a caveat here. There’s a line in the song Deathly that kicks it off that the go is, Now that I’ve met you, would you object to never seeing each other again? And he literally uses that line in the movie. And I have to tell you, it’s the cringe worthy is part of the movie because song lyrics do belong in songs. Like it’s actually hard in a way to criticize when like a song lyric is quote unquote over the top because, well, you’re not supposed to say it literally also. So I felt like that was actually instructional to me. Like, song lyrics can be great, but they’re contained in the space. They are for a reason. Don’t go put them in movies. Hmm.


Brittany Luse I think that’s a really, really, really excellent question. I think that my favorite, like, as in the one that I probably listen to the most in my life, I mean, probably number one is going to be probably the original Lion King soundtrack.


Louis Virtel Sure.


Brittany Luse I wore that completely the fuck out as a child and then as a teen into my adult years. Actually, the About a Boy soundtrack from like the film with Hugh Grant. I’m a big About A Boy fan. I am the only Badly Drawn Boy fan I know, unfortunately, also. And so I have never been to ant of his concerts or anything like that. But I think that one was probably commissioned like he there’s a lot of really great instrumental tracks that. You here at really beautiful, crucial points throughout the movie. And I think it’s a really good example of how like digital production, like digital music production had a really strong esthetic in the late nineties, early 2000 that worked really well. Like. Like laid with traditional, like, string and woodwind instruments. So if you haven’t seen the movie, it’s actually a pretty good movie. I’m a big fan. I think it’s one of Ukraine’s best performances. And also, you know, young Nicholas Hoult. And obviously, obviously, you get the queen in that film as well. But I think that the soundtrack is also like a lovely surprise. And if you even if you’re not super into Badly Drawn Boy. I think it’s a really good film soundtrack.


Ira Madison III I love About a Boy and I will say that like it made no sense for me, a sophomore in high school, going to see this movie and like how the intense emotions about Hugh Grant raising this boy. But, you know, a film with daddy issues will always get me anyway. I could say for me, favorite is, you know, like something like Waiting to Exhale is like always like an all time classic. But, you know, you said Paul Thomas Anderson said, and I routinely listen to the Boogie Nights soundtrack.


Louis Virtel Oh, well, the year is 1977. That’s when all the good stuff came out.


Brittany Luse Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III I mean, it’s just these songs in that.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Best of my Love.


Ira Madison III Some of the classics. Yeah, Best of My Love. And, um. Still the One.


Brittany Luse Yes. Oh, my God. It’s such a key scene in the film, too.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. Um, really? And, yes, of course, Best of My Love like it.,It’s, it reminds you, too, of the film, that’s sweeping, tracking shot of the club that opens the movie. Just perfect soundtrack.


Louis Virtel With roller girl zooming on through everything.


Brittany Luse Yeah. So good.


Ira Madison III Yeah our favorite Keep It guest, Heather Graham.


Louis Virtel Moving on. Moving on. You know but you’re right. This this conversation does have me nostalgic, though. It does feel like a bit of a lost art to just compile the correct songs from a movie that really summon different scenes from the movie.


Brittany Luse Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III I know. Also shout out to Empire Records.


Brittany Luse Shout out Empire Records.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, people in their late forties now, well, you know, will never shut up about that movie. So


Louis Virtel Oh, same vein Stealing Beauty soundtrack. I really like too. And there’s a little bit of Liz Phair on it.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. All right, when we are back. Louis and I chat with Nina Hoss about Tar and much more.


Unidentified <A.D.>


Ira Madison III Our guest today is a German film actress who is truly an icon, and we are excited to talk to her about her. Some of her best work and that includes Barbara, includes Phoenix, you know her from Homeland and most recently Tar, opposite Cate Blanchett. We’re very excited to chat with Nina Hoss today on Keep It.


Nina Hoss Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for the icon. I had no idea.


Ira Madison III You’ve earned that. You’ve earned it. Okay.


Nina Hoss Thank you very much.


Louis Virtel Nina, thank you for being here. And I have to say. Can you believe you are in this movie? And can you believe I mean, not that you don’t. Not that you’re not amazing in it. You are absolutely amazing in it. I can’t think of a movie in recent memory that sits on my brain like this movie does. I can’t lose it. I can’t. It’s not even that I’m confounded about what I think about it. It just it just lingers so much. Like the feel of the movie is so strong, you guys are also virtuosic in it. And I was wondering what you think it is about this movie that doesn’t leave people’s heads.


Nina Hoss You know, I have the same experience with working, having read the script, having worked on the film, and then having seen the film now three times. And I still want to watch it again because I still think even though I have been part of that whole process, I’ve missed something. There’s still something else I can explore. And I think that is the, the, the great force of this film in a way that it opens a room for conversation. It makes you think it makes you rethink your own judgment about several topics that float around us right now and certainly about power abuse, but also about how what does it mean to lead to lead an institution, to be a creative while trying to change the institution maybe? Can you still be a creative if you come to a certain point in your life like Tar, where you’ve kind of reached everything you could be longing for and you’re working on your legendary legacy, are you still able to be creative? So it’s it’s about so many things, how to treat people, how to love, how to mix. You know, it touches so many things in such a beautiful and judgmental way. And on top of this, it’s very intense. And it’s there’s so many things coming at you. And the great thing is that I have the feeling also when I talk about people who have seen the film, that they’re engaged, so they want to know more about it. It’s not that they feel like, Oh my God, I don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. It’s about classical music. I don’t know anything about orchestra. No, you you are taking into this world and you want to learn more about it. And that, of course, also has a lot to do with the intensity of Cate’s performance. And you’re just fascinated by it. You know, you want to follow her into this world and into her world. So, yeah, that’s I must say I feel the same and I can’t quite believe that I have a part in this. It’s really because I myself feel sometimes like an audience still exploring it.


Ira Madison III Well, I have to wonder, you, you know, being such a prolific German actress, you know, you’ve shot many things in Berlin. What was it like having a bulk of this film taking place, sort of, you know, on your turf, as it were?


Nina Hoss Yeah, it helped me. It helped me for Sharon, which is the character I plays, I am the wife of Tar, of the character that Kate plays. And for me, that was crucial that she Tar is in Sharon’s world. So Sharon has her family in Berlin. She can speak the language perfectly. She is good friends with all of the orchestra members. She has been there for much longer than than Kate did. And I had that helped me a lot of of just for having a feeling for where Sharon comes from. And then I had the feeling that it kind of rubs off the film. You see Berlin, you see you feel it’s it’s somewhere other than, you know, it’s not Atlanta or it now in New York or it’s Berlin. And the colors, the the way it’s shot, the sometimes static, you know, and all these things. I was really surprised in a good way when I saw the film for the first time and I thought, Oh, there’s a lot of film has rubbed off on on Todd.


Ira Madison III I left the film with some friends, and I just want to say each of them who hadn’t been to Berlin before were like they wanted to go and they wanted that apartment.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Nina Hoss Me too.


Ira Madison III Actually both apartments. Even Tar’s, you know, bachelor pad, they wanted that one, too. Yeah.


Nina Hoss I mean, that was fabulous as well because this is really an apartment. It’s a it’s the way you see it in the film, that’s how it exists. It’s beautifully, you know, pieces put together through, I don’t know, many, many years of that beautiful couple that gave us this apartment to shoot in. And so for us as a couple, it felt really lived in. You felt at home. That was very special. And every time we all came in, we were all like, Oh my God, this is so beautiful. And at the same time, of course, also a bit gloomy. You light it in the right way. You know, it has everything. It can be a very lonely space and a very cozy, comfortable space. Now.


Louis Virtel Part of the mystique of the movie is your relationship with Tar. And we as the audience are figuring out that there’s a lot of genuine affection there. You’re the first violin. She’s the EGOT winning maestro. But also there’s something transactional about your relationship. We’re figuring out like, you know, what are you getting from it? What’s she getting from it? And I have to wonder how much of this is something you sorted out in rehearsal and is rehearsing with Cate Blanchett, a particular vortex that you fall into? I mean, I imagine she is thrilled to meet someone like you who is, you know, as much a genius as she is.


Nina Hoss I think we were both so thrilled to be able to work with each other because I am fascinated with her work and always have been. I admire her a lot as an actor. And so it was for me, I was very curious to see how how we could dance with each other. And it was just very she used the word actually once, and I think it describes it very well. It had some kind of it was effortless. So if just where, you know, you’re prepared, you’ve asked the questions, you you discuss things. We also kind of learned we had played similar because I’m also a stage actress, so I had played Hedda GABLER. I did Medea, she did Elektra. She did a course on Klein, which is really a very German play in Australia. And I did the same, which is fantastic, fantastic character. And there Lotter was somewhat, you know, someone who believes in humanity and gets so terribly disappointed by humans. And it’s a wonderful character. We knew we seemed to have the same kind of taste in characters and the way we want to portray them and what we were looking for and to in a way we’re tasked, also to obliteraate your ego and just explore. And so if you have someone like that as your partner, you can really just start the scene and see what happens. And that was just phenomenal. And it was was an incredible experience to work with her.


Louis Virtel I feel like there should be some sort of convention where just actresses who’ve played Hedda GABLER can get together and just unpack the what must go  into something as insane as something like that. I mean, how many people just have, like, the gumption for it, you know what I mean?


Nina Hoss Yeah. It’s a phenomenal female character and you can read her in so many different ways somehow as also something to do with Tar. I would say it’s just someone you don’t quite understand why she does the way she does, the things, the way she does. And at the same time, sometimes you’re appalled by it, but you’re always fascinated. So that is that is all I had.


Ira Madison III What do you think the film says about identity, you know, and about who we are as people?


Nina Hoss It’s to be totally truthful. I didn’t really think about any of it and while doing it and we didn’t really this cassette either because we just explored from scene to scene, what is it? And if someone feels, is that power abuse going? Is there something going on that’s not quite right? Am I saying something now or do I look the other way? Or should I always say something? Should I stand up for someone who then doesn’t appreciate it and all these complications that come along with it? And like you said earlier, Louis, also for Sharon, doesn’t she get a lot out of this relationship as well? She is deeply in love that that I’m sure of. But she also knows that it’s forwards her career as well. You know, she gets to do things that she couldn’t do with another conductor. And she both of them are in a very powerful position. So I don’t I didn’t really I didn’t actually think about oh, it’s two females in that powerful position. I just love that Todd wrote the script as if this is the most normal thing there could be. And of course, knowing as the actor that’s behind it and watching films and so on, that this little trick, lets say that it is a female allows the audiences of today to not be so quick in their judgment. You kind of listen a bit longer, you want to understand a bit more before you make up your mind about someone and the people around her. In this case, I think if it would have been a man portraying this character, it would be much quicker. Firstly, in the draw of the MeToo discussion, you know, which is nothing I think that Todd intended, he just really wants to open up a conversation. And that’s why we were so interested in being part of it and doing the same in a very careful, nuanced, hitting all the gray zones way, you know. So I think we don’t want to give an answer to identity. Like, I guess. Yeah.


Louis Virtel I had a question about what is it like doing American Film Press as compared to German film press? And the reason I ask this is looking at some of the movies you’ve done, I mean, you are just somebody who is prepared for anything. And I mean, it gets pretty fucked up sometimes, whereas I feel like we’re kind of not used to, you know, movies really existing outside of boxes we’re familiar with over here. So a movie like TAR, which I would consider are pretty extreme in certain ways here, pretty extraordinary must in certain ways. Do you feel kind of commonplace for you in your career? And I was wondering, how do America is? American press is kind of different than German film press? Which I’m just guessing is more sophisticated than we are.


Nina Hoss And no. They’re not. Coming down. No, no. It’s you know, what’s what’s beautiful with the American press. And I’m not saying it to smooth anyone. So it’s just, you know, what you’re talking about. And it’s a really I always feel you’re interested in it and you get something out of it and you want to know more about it. And you have references and you’ve seen things and you, you know, you know the filmmakers, you know the people in it. It seems important, you know, and it’s a very it’s a very important to me because it’s my life. And in Germany, that’s sometimes not the case because believe it or not, I think in our culture, theater is still the one art form for actors and directors that is considered the real true art form, you know, the one that is really being taken seriously. And so sometimes with film it’s sometimes a bit less intense or serious or it’s less about the work really. It’s more about everything around making films, but not so much about the content in interviews, not in the reviews. The reviews are sometimes very sophisticated. That’s true. But don’t worry, it is very well. I love talking to Americans about film.


Louis Virtel Oh, what a relief for us. No, we should be putting that on the billboard around all around America. Nina Hoss likes us.


Nina Hoss Oh yes, I do. I do, very much so.


Ira Madison III This this film reminds me a bit of one of your earlier films which, you know, I’m sure you’ve talked so much about Phoenix, but for me it’s, you know, it’s about betrayal from a partner and just sort of it’s interesting seeing you a decade ago playing that role where you sort of, you know, taking a driver’s seat in this betrayal. But you also you don’t really know how you whether you’re a victim or whether or not you are taking control and feel it, sort of feel that sort of the same here. Do those type of roles sort of interests you, the ones where your your character is just sort of you could play it one of two ways, you know, and the audience isn’t really sure what you’re delivering until the end.


Nina Hoss Yeah, I, I guess something draws me to those characters because I don’t quite understand their motive at the very beginning, but they, there’s something intriguing when I read it and I, I want to explore it because. Well, in Sharon’s case, it’s like, why, who’s a woman who’s with someone like Tar? Who, who, who, And why would you what what do you get out of it? And in some way, you’re right, she is a victim. But then, on the other hand, not at all. You know, and it’s for me, interesting. That’s the same with Phoenix, that it’s women that are very open, that are. In Phoenix case, very wounded, of course, in Ellie’s case, the character’s name. But there comes a certain point where they take their life into their hand again with all the consequences. And that is the slight parallel with Sharon, that comes to you. It’s it seems like their core is still intact. And so for me to explore how to get to that point, where these women say, okay, I get some of it and I know now I have to do something else. I need to take it into my own hands. And and I take responsibility for it that that I find, you know, it’s such a stupid word, strong, but it’s something it’s of interest to me. Let’s let’s say say it that way.


Louis Virtel Well, Nina, I will speak on behalf of Irene. I hope you are part of the best supporting actress story coming up in the next few months here. I don’t know how much an Oscar means to someone from Germany, but we need it. We need to be we need to be considering you in a serious way. It’s just a tremendous performance and an unforgettable one. And I thank you for giving it and coming here and Keep It.


Nina Hoss Thank you so much. I won’t say anything. We’re super superstitious here. Coming from the theater. Let’s see where it takes us.


Louis Virtel Fabulous.


Nina Hoss Thank you so much.


Ira Madison III Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for chatting with us.


Nina Hoss Thank you for having me.


Ira Madison III Tar isn’t theaters now and season three of Jack Ryan, which Nina Hoss is also serving in, premieres December 21st.


Speaker 2 [AD]


Ira Madison III Halloween has come and gone. And at this point, it’s become a tradition for celebrities to dominate your Instagram feed with their costumes. And let me tell you something. I feel like I’ve reached maybe a tipping point, a slight tipping point on this, because I feel like, as you know, you have so many friends who put effort into their costumes that they also have to be wearable. And you see them out at parties. And it’s just fun to see like how much work a friend or someone else has put into a costume. Right? I’m not impressed by a celebrity with a lot of money who just pays someone to come and do their makeup and do a photoshoot in their house to put it on Instagram. Like, That’s not Halloween.


Brittany Luse Say that, say that.


Louis Virtel And additionally, like, well, here’s the thing. When it comes to like the Kardashians or the Jenners or whatever, I do feel this is a tax they should pay us celebrities. Like they should be able to deliver on this level, you know, like Kendall Jenner coming in with a pristine Jessie, the cowgirl outfit. I’m not saying it moves me. I’m not saying like, oh, that really added something to my day. But at the same time, good. You are providing for us.


Brittany Luse It’s expected.


Louis Virtel Yes, good.


Ira Madison III It’s the bare minimum.


Louis Virtel Yes, it is the bare minimum, yes.


Ira Madison III I feel like I at least approved of, say, Laurie Harvey doing the Beyoncé videos because she dressed up as multiple Beyoncé videos and also made little music video segments to go with them, too. Like that’s taking it a step further.


Louis Virtel Hmm hmm.


Brittany Luse No, I 100% agree. I think my favorite celebrity Halloween costume from this year. I mean, there are certain celebrities. I will say that, like, I think that Lizzo does a really good job because she’ll give you different specific looks in different contexts. And I like that. And there’s like some that she shared that are more specific to Tik Tok, some that are general pop culture, some require photoshoots or videos. I’m into that giving me a full moment of production, but I my favorite was Lil Nas X dressing up as Ice Spice.


Ira Madison III That was iconic and I don’t know how I all of a sudden I think it actually but I liked the song Munch and I like Bikini Bottom. But I think Lil Nas X being in the Ice Spice outfit actually made me an Ice Spice stan. Like I’m fully stanning now. And that is the power of a really good costume.


Brittany Luse It is the power of a really good costume. And also like I love the fact that his costume didn’t, it didn’t have all this. It didn’t require a bunch of bells and whistles like you see a lot of these celebrity costumes, you know what I’m saying? Like you were just saying it, but they got like their hair and makeup and wardrobe teams that are giving them this full look. I know, like his costume could have been repeated, like by anybody can be copied by anybody. But also I have to say shout out to Ice Spice, because it’s very hard to be iconic in the literal sense I would say, when you first come out to the point where like people can actually identify iconography and the way that you present yourself, I think it’s really impressive that somehow this girl has like the red curly Annie, like literal orphan Annie hair like like that’s iconography for her now. And also the what is it almost like that that that that like black body stocking with all the holes in it, like Hayley Williams from Paramore were one of those at a performance last week. I don’t even think trying to emulate Ice Spice. Well, people saw Hayley Williams red hair and they saw her in that body stocking. They were like, look, I heard her Ice Spice era, but shout out to Ice Spice because it’s kind of amazing that like through the way that she puts herself together and she has like what two songs out? She just came out this year that she was able to like she’s was sort of picking up. She’s at least she has enough of like consistency visually that like people could see someone dressed up as Ice Spice and immediately know who she was.


Louis Virtel I want to bring up you just brought up Lizzo, she and Cardi B, both dressed as Marge Simpson.


Brittany Luse I saw that.


Louis Virtel Which how wild is that? That’s I don’t think I can’t think of an occasion in recent Halloween history where two people really went as both not just the same thing, but like not that their take is the same, but it’s the same jarringness, watching them dressed up as Marge Simpson.


Brittany Luse Right. Right.


Ira Madison III I also appreciate it that they both did something different with it. You know, like like Lizzo did the full photoshoot and then Cardi B had the whole like she’ll always be running around in the house doing something funny, too.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes. Also, we can’t go any further without bringing up Heidi Klum, who I believe is like the unholy emperor of Halloween where.


Brittany Luse She started all this.


Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s like, look, she dressed as an earthworm. And by the way, it’s not an ordinary earthworm. It’s giving the earthworm from James and the Giant Peach, the claymation version. So I don’t know if you’ve seen that movie recently. I would describe it as nightmare inducing. I mean, there’s just like, these these and these Roald Dahl creatures should not be scurrying up a peach. It’s just not right is not what God wanted. But she looks amazing. She also lies down on a red carpet as an earthworm. So she’s really committing to like the discussing this, like she’s a German vermin, as it were. It’s kind of what you’re saying, where all I can think about is what a nightmare this must be for the eight assistants she has or whatever. Like, are they calling up Rick Baker to make sure he can, you know, do the 8 pounds of makeup on her face and and body that she needs so that this can be pulled off without a hitch? Because it is without a hitch, not a single one of those things called On an earthworm segment is out of place. Mm hmm.


Ira Madison III I would also say that I prefer some people’s vintage outfits. There was a like. I love the pop culture diet 2009 sort of thread and Instagram because they always have fun throwbacks. And, you know, you saw like Kim and her, that man she used to be married to, like Batman in Catwoman costumes. And it’s just like that in 2012. Like, yeah, it still seemed like they were, you know, like getting regular costumes and going to the club and, you know, being fun, you know, as opposed to now she’s dressed up as, you know, Mystique from X-Men attacking Marvel. And it’s like, okay, but what was this for? You know, like, are you trying to get a job in a Marvel movie?


Brittany Luse Yeah, I, yeah, I, I think that she’s trying to get into Marvel movies. She’s like, tweeting at them when she posted the photo, which is like, it’s fine. But it’s also one of the things where it’s just like, girl like this is supposed to be a party is not supposed to.


Ira Madison III Do less. Right. And it reminds me to of the thing now where, you know, you do it’s nice if you do a costume and like the celebrity, like as a regular person and the celebrity or something, you dress as the person whose character it is sees it. Like, if you’re Buffy, you know, like Sarah Michelle Gellar sees it, but it’s cute. You know, like, I’m sure everyone who dressed as Florence Pugh tagged her at is hoping she sees it. She sees them okay and she’s moving on. But, you know, like now it seems like a point of doing it so that you can tag the person so that they notice it and then you get like a BuzzFeed spread or something, you know.


Brittany Luse Yeah.


Ira Madison III What happened to pure, innocent fun, you know?


Brittany Luse It’s like everybody dressing up their kids in these costumes. I’m like, Your child asked to be a fireman. Your child did not have to be Cate Blanchett in Tar. Gthaat’s not what your child asked for.


Ira Madison III Louis might have asked.


Louis Virtel Yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III Also, speaking of Kim, again, once again, tomb raiding.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III She seemed like putting Michael Jackson’s Smooth Criminal hat on her child with the makeup still on it from Michael, where he wore it. Girl, stay out of people’s crypts.


Louis Virtel Hmm. Yeah. We need to not let her by these estate sales. She’s coming in with a big basket. And just, like, shoveling things in it.


Ira Madison III Her house in Calabasas is about to turn in to the House on Haunted Hill, okay because demons are coming.


Brittany Luse No, my southern roots. The lineage. The ancestors are speaking to me like I just some anger out that like taking somebody things like that like a person who’s passed on and playing with them, say, on the Met Gala red carpet or playing with them, giving them to your child when they have not even been washed because they’re that valuable. Like that hat had not been cleaned because it’s that valuable. I, I just don’t play in those type of things. It’s not, it’s, I don’t know. I’ve been like, I don’t, I’m superstitious. I’m like, that’s not good. Also, I’ve seen Tales from the Hood too many times. Like, I just.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Brittany Luse Don’t play about things like that. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Kim would be honestly, Kim would be a great like white villans in one of the Tales for the Hood segments.


Brittany Luse Ab-so-lutely.


Ira Madison III What do you think about horror movies? Honestly, I am still terrified by the little tiny black dolls that chase that man and that man.


Brittany Luse Yes, it was a surprise.


Ira Madison III Yes. And and also, I will never forget the fact that, like the white man in the film referred to them as nigletts.


Brittany Luse I’ll never forget that.


Ira Madison III Little tiny black people. That word has been stuck in my head since that movie.


Brittany Luse Yes, I was like, that’s a slur I hadn’t heard before. I was like, That’s a new one.


Ira Madison III That’s Art. Okay lastly, Brittany, what were you for Halloween? Did you partake?


Brittany Luse I was not anything for Halloween. Me and my husband. We’ve been busy lately. We haven’t really been able to spend time together. Oh, my. I feel like this is such a I like. I feel like a wife guy right now. So we went out for the day. Whatever we need to recharge together, we will go out to eat, get a foot massage and go to the movies. Yeah.


Ira Madison III I think that’s iconic.


Louis Virtel Wow. In that order.


Brittany Luse So, that’s what we did.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Brittany Luse We, we went for a long walk and we got a foot massage then. And then we ate and then we went home and went to bed. So I did not do anything.


Ira Madison III You know what? I love conversation and  verbal elation. Okay, you take that long walk. Around the park after dark.


Brittany Luse Our our day was giving Lizel in E flat. I’m not gonna lie. I’m not gonna lie.


Louis Virtel Who is this guy on Halloween volume one? Yes.


Ira Madison III I’m not having a kid unless they want to dress up as Jill Scott in the number one Ladies Detective Agency.


Brittany Luse Okay.


Louis Virtel Iconic DVD cover. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I did a very lazy costume. I dress up as Freddy Krueger, but I feel like, you know, even even a lazy costume is sort of better than. Some people’s lazy costumes, you know? I mean, we’re not going to drag them this year, but because we’ve done it before. But, you know, like the the gays putting on putting on like a like ears for a costume. Like if you’re supposed to be like a superhero or something and then just shorts and nothing else, it’s not giving anymore, you know? It’s like we’re we’re constantly at odds with the. You know, the stereotype that we’re so creative and smart and then just constantly undermining it in public.


Louis Virtel And we’re thrilled.


Ira Madison III And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. Brittany, as our guest, you go first.


Brittany Luse Okay. So we all know that Elon Musk bought Twitter and I, I can’t tell at this point whether I’m talking about the experience of using Twitter, whether or not it’s changed that much or if I’m mostly just seeing people talk about what they heard is changing or anticipation over what could change or what’s about to change. And I do anticipate that things will change. However, all I see every day as people talk about how they about to leave Twitter. They’re like, I’m leaving, I’m leaving. I’m not going to be here anymore. And then they show up the next day and they’re tweeting like it’s their damn job. Like they literally need to punch in to a fucking clock to be here. And my thing is this. I see people. They’re like, I’m going to leave here. You can find me at Instagram, I’m going to leave here. We’re going back to Tumblr. I’m going to tell you something right now. I don’t know. I see these kids and they’re like, Oh, I was on Tumblr 2012, 2016, baby, I am your elder. I was on Twitter. I was on Tumblr excuse me in 2007. Okay. And I got off of it in about 2015. The things I have seen and you joke about going back there like that’s going to be so much a better place. Literally, people used to get up and people used to get up in arms. People would doxing each other. People were trying to go back in people’s lineage to find out who their great auntie was. People were leaking addresses. The girls were always fighting on Tumblr in the nastiest, freakiest ways. And my thing is Twitter, I wouldn’t necessarily say is is better, but I think a lot of the things people complain about with regard to Twitter, aside from like, you know, like aside from like racist and.


Ira Madison III Nazis.


Brittany Luse Trolls, right? A lot of the same in-group like ugliness and fighting happened on Tumblr. It happens on literally every social media platform. So I don’t want us to get these rose colored glasses looking back toward the past, thinking that going into Tumblr is just going to solve everybody’s problems because baby, it will not. I’m tired of people getting on Twitter every day to complain about how they’re about to leave. I don’t like people complaining actually, because like I complain about it too. I think complaining is fine. I think I’m just tired of people saying they’re going to leave and they don’t leave. Do it. Don’t do it. There is no try. Just leave one day and don’t come back. Because there’s plenty of people who I adore who left Twitter with no explanation and just never came back. Maybe they’ll tweet once a year like I wrote a book. Good for you. That’s great. I think that they’re healthy and I aspire to be like them. I really, really do. But I just don’t want to see any of y’all who have been going on and on and on about how you got to leave the platform. I don’t want to see y’all here in six months. I don’t want to see y’all in six months.


Louis Virtel There’s something specific about like going on about that kind of thing on Twitter where it’s like you clearly want, I’m sorry, attention. Like you want people to respond and say something and it’s like that. But by the way, like, we all want attention. I’m not saying that’s not like a human need or whatever, but like you said, it’s not hard to leave. Like, you can just delete it from your phone. So there’s no like, it’s not like you have to wait to be approved to leave or whatever, you know, it’s like.


Ira Madison III Or you could get or you could get bannedd, you know, like I did.


Brittany Luse Banned, right.


Louis Virtel Cleanest leave of all. Yes.


Ira Madison III The Cleanest, you know, what that reminds me of too? Do you remember the era of you know, like the the I why I left Twitter article.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III I think Lindy West might have had what I think other people you know it’s just for people it’s just like I’ve left Twitter and here’s a here’s an essay about why I left Twitter. Like it but like people people loved it. Like there used to be the Why BuzzFeed thing. People want you to know why they left. And I think the actual thing is, as a person, if you tried to leave Twitter before, never announced it, but tried, they always drop that you can follow me here. The problem is all the engagement that you get on Twitter and if you have like however many followers, like 500 K or something like I used to have or something like all of those people are not going to follow you to Instagram and your next platform. So no, that’s the main problem. I feel like why these people don’t leave, they want to follow. And then they’re like, Oh, two people followed me on my Instagram.


Brittany Luse Right.


Ira Madison III People don’t cross-pollinate. Okay.


Brittany Luse No, they like you where they see you.


Ira Madison III Very specific, right. It is. It is. It’s your close friends who follow you on Instagram and Twitter or, you know, but it’s usually like one person wants to see your photos or what selects your thoughts. And that’s it. Rarely like if you if you meet if you meet a random stranger who likes both, then maybe you’re supposed to get married.


Brittany Luse Although I will say I probably, for professional reasons, will need to start a newsletter and I will absolutely be posting on Twitter that people can follow me there. So when I do it it is going to be different. But for everybody else, but for everybody else.


Louis Virtel Good to know.


Brittany Luse And I’m just like, I’m like, Do it, leave, don’t leave. I don’t care. Do whatever you want to do it. It’s good. It’s probably going to get worse on Twitter and it is what it is like. I might just be nosy and stick it out. I might not. We will see. But whether I stay or go, I’m not telling anybody. Especially because just I just as you said, Louis, like I just don’t I don’t like I don’t want to be seen as somebody who, like, made a big thing about leaving and then comes back.


Ira Madison III I truly love the people who vanish. Okay. I love the people who.


Louis Virtel It’s respectable.


Brittany Luse Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. The people who vanish. But they also like they’ll tweet one day or you go to their timeline and you’re like, oh, they’ll tweet forever, you know, but they’re still around. I actually appreciate the people who sort of vanish. But when you go to the likes, they’re still on it. They’re still liking things.


Louis Virtel Fuck yeah.


Ira Madison III But they’re like, I’m not engaging anymore. That that’s being an adult.


Brittany Luse I think. It’s. I think it’s chic. So that’s my thing. I think. I think that if you’re going to complain every day, it’s like people who get there’s all these people who are like, oh, don’t talk about yourself, don’t share the photos. And I’m like, I’m literally not seeing any of these things happen. I feel like you’re just tweeting something to have something to say when you could just really say, Rest in peace and we can move on. Sometimes people will just be Twitter inviting and someone will get up in the morning, be like, today is going to be a hard day on here. I’m going to leave. 3 p.m. where’s they ass? Right back on fucking twitter. So I don’t need to fucking hear it. Save it, Keep It.


Louis Virtel When people say things like that, and then don’t specify. It’s like, Are you under the impression you’re better than Twitter? Like, give me a break. It’s just not true. Why not? Who are you impressing? Yeah, right.


Brittany Luse I am a try hard ass bitch. And if I hadn’t been on Twitter for the better part of the last decade, I would not have the same job I wouldn’t have. Some of my friendships I wouldn’t have the professional relationships and opportunities that I’ve been able to have. I’m not going to sit here and act like Twitter, even though it can be irritating. I’m not going to act like it has been a really fantastic tool for me to be able to get things that I appreciate.


Ira Madison III We are not better that it. James Baldwin would be. If he were alive, James Baldwin would be on Twitter.


Brittany Luse Every day.


Ira Madison III Having, having takes where I’d be like, You know what? Let me put Giovanni’s Room away for a minute. I’m sorry. At a certain point, when you get old enough that you don’t want to change your opinion about things like we would be disappointed by a lot of people who would be on this platform. Okay. Tupac would be very embarrassing.


Louis Virtel Oh, I’ve never thought of that about that before. But you did say something just now. I mean, I’m not saying I’m for sure that’s what would happen, but it’s a possibility.


Ira Madison III Oh, I think about Marilyn Monroe on Twitter. Okay. Right. Come on.


Brittany Luse No, see, actually, I think Marilyn Monroe would not be on Twitter. I think she actually well, I think she’d be on there. And then I think she’d be one of the people that just, like, forgot about it and left and.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. It would not necessarily.


Brittany Luse Sometimes for shits and giggles, she go through and she like messy stuff and then that would be it.


Ira Madison III Yeah, actually, Kim Kardashian has Marilyn’s Twitter account. Louis, what is your Keep It this week?


Louis Virtel Mine’s going to be quick. I am just going to lament the death of the Billboard Hot 100 because Taylor Swift released the Midnights album, which we talked about last week, and now she gets to be the top ten on the chart. Yes, I’m aware it’s an extremely popular album and I’m aware that technically that means all these people are buying the single whatever and that, you know, but like still like radio play is mostly about the main singles like Anti-hero. And it just means the chart is like kind of meaningless now. I don’t know. I once upon a time really valued what it meant to have a number one hit. And now that’s shifted so much like the idea that now Mariah Carey is guaranteed to have a number one hit every Christmas, where before it she was never in the running. The metrics have shifted. The what goes into the chart has shifted and I just don’t care anymore. And also, I’m a little sick of Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift fans being like, we did it. We got the top ten. Yes. She’s wildly popular. What? Like what? Like your it’s like a Christian being like. Yes, there’s other Christians out there. Gentle fuck,  we live in a Christian universe, Jesus. Yeah.


Ira Madison III I always feel that the top ten should be songs that people are listening to, and I get that like Swifties are buying a ton of songs. It’s like, listen, I. I bought the vinyl, okay? I’m part of the problem.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. I see.


Ira Madison III And I, you know, but.


Brittany Luse Wow.


Ira Madison III The single and everything counting for it still feels so weird to me because I feel like if a song is on the top ten on Billboard, my cashier at Panera Bread should know this song.


Louis Virtel That is correct.


Ira Madison III Should have been playing constantly and they should be sick of it by now.


Brittany Luse It should be unavoidable.


Ira Madison III Yes, the top ten like the songs are unavoidable. And for me, yes these are wildly popular and Swifties are streaming them in their homes. So if you ask anybody on the street, do you know Bejeweled? They’d be like the girl who lived in her car?


Brittany Luse Yeah.


Louis Virtel Shout out to the Bejeweled song Standing Still, by the way, I miss the early 2000s.


Brittany Luse That was a good song. No but hundred percent agree.


Ira Madison III And also there was the other thing, too, about like it’s the first top ten that’s all female.


Louis Virtel Oh, don’t even say that to me.


Ira Madison III And I’m like, I’m like, okay, Jack Antonoff wrote, produced every song on it. So it’s also the first top ten of where one producer produced every song on the top ten.


Louis Virtel Right. Anyway, you could have guessed that was my. Keep It, Ira. What’s your Keep It?


Ira Madison III My Keep It is very is like sort of sad. My Keep It goes to the star of Netflix’s series Heart Stopper, Kit Connor, literally having to come out as bisexual at 18 because people on Twitter accused him of queer baiting for not saying whether or not he was bi for playing a bi character on the show. What the fuck is wrong with people?


Louis Virtel Well, they must have expected him to be straight or something, right? Otherwise, why would they be like, harp on him so much anyway? Not that that would make it excusable, but just this person is now in a completely uncomfortable position. He’s 18 years old, and how can you not feel bad for this person?


Ira Madison III He’s so sweet and I feel like he’s so sweet and he’s been so engaging with fans. And the thing that makes it kind of worse is that the entire series is about this. Like, the whole point of it is about coming out on your own terms and when it’s time and you know, like you should be forced to, like, do anything before you’re ready to. And he literally just had to do that. And I think that there’s a disconnect between him and like, like a straight actor playing a gay, like he’s not Eddie Redmayne in, you know, The Danish Girl or something, you know, like he’s not Jared Leto playing a role, you know, he’s not an actor. Try to win an Oscar by playing an LGBTQ plus role. You know, like, this is a kid playing a role. And it’s I don’t know. I don’t think I don’t know how you could care about any character’s sexuality when they’re 18 or whatever, playing a role. You know.


Brittany Luse I think it’s inappropriate. And I also think it’s just like people people it’s people feeling entitled to.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Brittany Luse Have information about other people’s lives. And and I don’t know. It just that’s that’s it makes me really sad. It’s very disturbing. And I even just seeing the way people have treated Shawn Mendes over the years, I well, I don’t I’ve never heard of Shawn Mendes song. I don’t know what he sounds like or what he sings about. But


Ira Madison III Unfortunately you have. Unfortunately, you have because they are at Panera. My other caveat about a top ten song is you either you know everything about the song, you hear it all the fucking time or you hear the song all the fucking time but you also have no idea who sings it.


Louis Virtel Right. Right.


Brittany Luse Then maybe I do know Shawn Mendes. But that’s what I do know, even though I don’t know any of his songs, I do know that that poor young man has had people hounding him for years about his sexuality. And my thought is, is like, it’s just not like I don’t know or I can understand why people want to know if there are people in the public eye who are like them. But I don’t think that should ever override, like somebody being able to keep their life for themselves and and not feel so. Yeah, I guess not feel so consumed. You should be able to have.


Ira Madison III It’s entitlement.


Brittany Luse Yeah, it’s absolutely entitled.


Ira Madison III It’s entitlement because there’s also I don’t know, there’s this weird thing too about this where it’s you want representation and feeling like you are connected to someone, but sometimes it jumps over to the level of like like Annie Wilkes behavior from Misery because it’s like if Shawn Meadows is gay, if this Kit Conner is bi,  it’s like it doesn’t mean he’s going to date you.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Is that part of the equation.


Ira Madison III It’s like like like him being queer all of a sudden doesn’t mean that like it it improves your chances of being with that person.


Louis Virtel I also think like to me what’s weird is like this is a show we watched months and months ago. Everybody generally liked it. We put it away. And now still he’s being hounded by people who are like still obsessed with that moment or whatever. Ah now that it’s been months, they feel like maybe they can get him to respond to him or something. I don’t know. It just feels like people inventing a conversation where there wasn’t one and he’s so surrounded by it, he’s so bombarded with that. He then feels obligated to say something. But I just want to tell him. It’s like you didn’t have to say anything, you know? Like, there’s no, like, the thing in his tweet where he’s like, okay, fine, I’m out is like, I’m sorry someone tricked you into believing you had to do that.


Brittany Luse Exactly.


Ira Madison III Thank you to Brittany Luse for being here. The new host of NPR’s It’s Been a Minute, and thank you to Nina Hoss for joining us. That’s Keep It. We’ll see you next time.


Ira Madison III Keep It as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producers are Ira Madison III.


Louis Virtel And Louis Virtel.


Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.


Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot and Nar Melkonian.  And to Delon Villanueva for our production support every week.