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TRANSCRIPT
Jane Coaston: It’s Wednesday, April 22nd, I’m Jane Coaston and this is What a Day, the show that often says, I do not believe President Donald Trump, but really, really means it this time. Here’s Trump calling into CNBC on Tuesday.
[clip of President Donald Trump] I would have won Vietnam very quickly, I would have if I were president. I would’ve won Iraq in the same amount of time that we won, because essentially, we’ve won here.
Jane Coaston: Donald Trump, you might recall, did not fight in the Vietnam War. He did, however, tell Howard Stern in 1997 that avoiding sexually transmitted infections was quote, “like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam.” [music break] On today’s show, Tucker Carlson apologizes for his role in bringing Trump to power. Unfortunately for all of us, too little too late. And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth fights for bodily autonomy, but not in a good way. Let’s start with Earth Day, which is today, in case you forgot. It’s a weird time to be honoring the Earth and celebrating efforts to save it, because the Trump administration seems to be doing everything it can to strip the planet for parts. For example, the administration is paying millions of dollars to keep coal plants open, plants that were scheduled for retirement and cost a ton to run. Because the Trump administration really really loves coal. Why? As Politico magazine argued in 2017, the coal industry blends, quote, “right-wing business executives who hate environmental regulations and taxes, along with blue-collar miners who wish America was more like it used to be when coal was king.” Those two groups love Donald Trump. In Trump’s second term, the love affair continues. According to Interior Secretary Doug Burgum, the goal for coal plants is to, quote “100% stay open, no more retirements, no more shutting down.” In other words, more coal all the time. And the rest of the Trump administration appears to be on board. Here’s Energy Secretary Chris Wright speaking to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee on Tuesday.
[clip of Chris Wright] Coal has been the largest source of global electricity since the data began. We have pretty good data starting in the year 1900. Coal’s 125 and zero in how many years they have led the world in electricity production. I’m pretty confident coal will lead the world in global electricity production when I die.
Jane Coaston: The problem is, Chris Wright, if coal leads the world in global electricity production when you die, a lot of other people are going to die too. But funnily enough, the Trump administration has accidentally made a fantastic case for moving away from fossil fuels. Now that the Iran war has created a global oil crisis, electric vehicles and solar panels are looking more appealing and more stable than ever. So to talk more about the Trump Administration, climate change, and how the Iran War could push the U.S. back towards renewables, I spoke to Dharna Noor. She’s a fossil fuels and climate reporter for The Guardian. Dharna, welcome to What a Day.
Dharna Noor: Thanks for having me.
Jane Coaston: Trump’s war on Iran has unintentionally turned the global spotlight towards renewable energy, which is ironic because Trump hates renewable energy a whole lot. And his administration has been like actively working against it in favor of fossil fuels, which they love. But here we are. And I have to wonder, is the US prepared to meet this energy squeeze?
Dharna Noor: I mean, I think the answer to that realistically is no. I think what we’ve seen is that the war on Iran um that has been waged by the US and Israel has really called attention to the global nature of fossil fuel markets. Um. And I think that the Trump administration really sold the American people this idea that if we just boost our energy independence here in the US by boosting you know the drilling of oil and gas, we can kind of untether ourselves from that market. We can ensure that we’ve got enough of a supply here. What we’re seeing now, of course, is that just because you’re drilling more fossil fuels in the United States does not mean that the price for those fossil fuels is not set by you know the sort of broader geopolitical sphere and does not mean that we’re not gonna see prices go up when we see instability like this. The other thing I’ll say is you know the Trump administration currently is sort of selling this idea that we are gonna be increasing our production really, really quickly. We’re gonna be exporting more um oil and gas. Obviously, you know, or perhaps not obviously, um exports of oil and gas can actually serve to increase domestic prices. So if you’re looking to bring down domestic prices, maybe not the best idea. The other thing is that, um you know much to their sort of disappointment, you actually cannot often increase these supplies all that quickly. You know it takes um the expansion of new infrastructure and that can take years to to sort of do. Um. Which is where renewable energy comes in because wind and solar are able to be sort of brought online more quickly
Jane Coaston: Yeah, it seems like Americans are responding to the Trump administration’s pro-oil energy policies with oil prices going up by saying, hey, renewables. I think I’ve heard just from friends of mine saying like, wow, I’m glad I bought an EV three or four years ago, or, wow, we’re all suddenly looking at EVs. How do you think Democrats can capitalize on this, given that it just seems logical to look at renewable sources of energy when oil is being held hostage by a war!
Dharna Noor: Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, it’s interesting to see um honestly that there has not been quite as much focus from Democrats as we may expect on the need for the expansion of renewable energy, despite the fact that we’re seeing this sort of massive crisis with fossil fuels. Um. That said, I think that there are some sort of efforts underway that are really drawing attention to the need to move away from oil and gas. One of those efforts is uh the for a windfall tax on fossil fuel companies, essentially saying hey, we’re in this moment where, because the price of oil and gas is going up rapidly, um and that means that, you know, oil and gasoline companies are making record profits. We’ve seen this for Shell and Exxon and a number of others. Um. We don’t want this to be a moment where just because, you know you can make a lot of money on these things, we’re increasing our supply of them, because one, they’re proving to be expensive and unstable when it comes to prices, and two, they are destroying the climate that we all rely on um to live. And so the idea is that essentially taxing these sort of excess profits that oil companies are seeing could ensure that we don’t see a sort of massive expansion in supply. We’re also seeing some calls to stop the export of certain kinds of fossil fuels, you know, so for instance, Ro Khanna’s office put forth this proposal to stop exporting gasoline um during this sort of moment of crisis, um which again, could serve to lower prices. But I think, you know, what we really did see need to see more of um is the sort of focus on the need to move away from fossil fuels completely, not only of course, to sort of stabilize energy prices, you know, obviously, oil and gas are not the only energy sources that are tied to the global market, obviously you know to build wind and solar capacity, you need to acquire things that are often made um in other countries. But that said, when you have a wind turbine or a solar panel, you don’t need to constantly fill them with more oil and gas. They’re not dependent on these sort of inputs that come from the global market. And that means that they’re relatively stable when it comes to pricing, when it come to security. Um. And I think we really need to sort of put a little bit more attention there to say, hey, real energy security could be boosted by bringing on more renewables.
Jane Coaston: Right, right, I think it’s really good to say like, this is just a logical thing to do. It doesn’t have to be something that you’re doing because you’re a good person. It’s just a logical thing to.
Dharna Noor: Yes.
Jane Coaston: The other angle I wanna look at here is that the US and China are two global superpowers. But as the US turned toward fossil fuels, China has spent the last decade or so investing in renewable energy. And in this moment, it’s um it’s paying off for them. How much could sustaining an oil crisis here in the U.S. set us back in comparison to China?
Dharna Noor: Gosh, I mean, when it comes to these sort of new renewable energy markets and you know electric vehicle markets, China is already light years ahead of us. Um. What we’ve seen is that you know China has developed relationships with countries all over the world um wherein you know their technologies, um their sort of like constituent parts for these technologies um have become really essential to many, many countries’ energy transitions. And the US you know under Biden tried to sort of get in on some of that. Um. And say, hey, we’re gonna be manufacturing some electric vehicles domestically, we’re going to be doing more to manufacture um or at least put together wind and solar infrastructure domestically. By moving in the other direction there, I think what we’ve seen a lot of sort of experts say is that Trump is seeding what little ground the US had in this sort of race to China completely. I would say that that’s already something that we was sort of underway, but this is really kind of a nail in the coffin. Um, and, you know, as we’ve seen at, uh, the sort of international climate conferences, um, where the Trump administration has not been present because it has left the sort of architecture of international climate policy, we’re seeing that countries are not sort of waiting for the U.S. to come back into the climate sphere. Instead, they’re sort of saying, okay, cool. We’re moving along without you. We are, um you know transitioning away from fossil fuels, however we can without you and we’re doing that with whatever partners are willing to play with us. In many of cases, that’s China.
Jane Coaston: One of uh my favorite, and I mean favorite lately, ironically, uh pieces that you wrote was about the Heartland Institute Conference, which is a conference for people who think that climate change is awesome. You know, the president of the Heartland Institute gave this long speech about how putting more carbon dioxide in the environment was good. And EPA head Lee Zeldin spoke at that conference and talked about how great it was that, you know, finally, people like us were being listened to by the Trump administration. So it feels like the Trump Administration isn’t gonna turn around on this. They’re not gonna shift course even in the midst of an energy crisis. But what does the US need to do moving forward? And what can Americans expect if we don’t adjust course?
Dharna Noor: Yeah, I think this is a really interesting moment ahead of the midterms where a lot of people who are, you know, sort of across the political spectrum, but believe in the fundamental truth around which there’s scientific consensus that fossil fuels are the primary cause of global warming. Global warming is dangerous. Those are things that are settled facts. And we’re seeing a lot of people sort of try to get into motion some priorities that might be possible to finally get underway. If, you know, the Democrats were to take one or both houses of Congress. And so, you know, we’re seeing some energy, for instance, around um the desire to bring back some of the incentives that President Biden put in place in the Inflation Reduction Act for things like wind and solar, things like the manufacturing of EVs, even things like, um you know, kind of reducing the energy load of households. Um. Those were incentives that the Trump administration also removed um once it got into office last year. Um. So, you know, a sort of effort to bring back some of those incentives, I think, is already sort of happening. The other thing I think we’re really seeing is um this sort of tying climate issues to affordability. We’ve seen a lot of sort of pollsters and wonks um in the past year say, hey, Americans don’t really care about climate change anymore. All they care about is their bills. And what we’re seeing the sort of climate world say is, hey first of all, there’s other polls that show that’s not true at all. But second of all you know these things are related. Like climate change is pushing up costs for insurance, it’s pushing up costs for utility bills. Um. Climate change is increasing costs. And what’s at stake here is really, you know, not only um costs, it’s not only the potentially um really, really high price tag that Americans could be paying when it comes to their utility bills, their insurance, their homes, um you now, if they’re in the lines of climate disasters, for instance, but also their lives. You know, we’re seeing an increasing number. Um, of extreme weather events, floods, hurricanes, uh, droughts every year. We’re seeing increasingly severe forms of these, uh weather disasters. Uh, and that’s only going to get worse. Obviously, you know, the United States is not seeing the worst effects of climate change. That’s often being borne by those in the global South, you know, in countries that, um, have not contributed nearly as much as we have to the climate crisis here in the U.S. but that doesn’t mean that we’re safe and, uh you know the only way [?] have made clear the only way that we’re going to be able to secure a livable future is if we transition away from fossil fuels.
Jane Coaston: Dharna, thank you so much for joining us, and happy Earth Day!
Dharna Noor: Happy Earth Day, thanks so much, Jane.
Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Dharna Noor, fossil fuels and climate reporter at The Guardian. Personally, this show is a big fan of Earth. Very nice planet, one we’d like to keep happy and healthy. If you agree, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]
[AD BREAK]
Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today.
[sung] Headlines.
Jane Coaston: Have you ever thought to yourself, I wish that more members of the military were potentially debilitated by a communicable disease that could be averted through vaccination? Well, Secretary of Defense/little boy, Pete Hegseth heard your cries and he made a special announcement on Tuesday.
[clip of Pete Hegseth] Under the disastrous Biden administration, this Pentagon waged an unrelenting war on our warriors on many fronts, including when it came to denying them simple medical autonomy. Under President Trump, the War Department continues to take decisive action to once again restore freedom and strength to our joint force. We’re seizing this moment to discard any absurd, overreaching mandates that only weaken our war fighting capabilities. In this case, this includes the universal flu vaccine and the mandate behind it. Our new policy is simple. If you, an American warrior, entrusted to defend this nation, believe that the flu vaccine is in your best interest, then you are free to take it. You should. But we will not force you because your body, your faith, and your convictions are not negotiable, your health.
Jane Coaston: The flu vaccine has been mandated by the military since the early 1950s, because it turns out that having the flu would also weaken our warfighting capabilities. But I guess Pete Hegseth thinks that my body, my choice, is common sense. I wonder if that applies to anything else. Meanwhile, President Trump’s choice to run the Federal Reserve, Kevin Warsh, had his confirmation hearing before the Senate Banking Committee on Tuesday. His answers did not fill me with confidence about his ability to keep the Fed independent from Trump.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 1] Earlier today, you said to Senator Kennedy that President Trump never demanded you to cut interest rates in your job interview. Is that your sworn testimony?
[clip of Kevin Warsh] That is Senator.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 1] Okay, well someone here is lying then because it’s either you or President Trump because in an interview with the Wall Street Journal of December 12th, President Trump confirmed that he pressed you on your commitment to support interest rate cuts. You know, this brings up an issue of credibility at this point. Who’s lying here? Is it you? Or the president, because the president confirmed that he did ask you to cut interest rates.
[clip of Kevin Warsh] Senator, there’s of course a third alternative. You cite a couple of reporters for a leading financial newspaper. I recall reading that story at the time.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 1] Did you issue a correction?
[clip of Kevin Warsh] I think those reporters either need better sources or better journalist standards.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 1] Did you ask for a correction?
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 2] Are you concerned that there could be real long-term effects of this war in Iran, especially if we’re continuing to see these challenges when it comes to fuel and fertilizer?
[clip of Kevin Warsh] Senator, if my reform agenda, if confirmed, stands for anything, it’s for the central bank, especially the Fed chairman, to stay in its lane.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 2] I know that, but you also have to be–
[clip of Kevin Warsh] So I wouldn’t want to wander outside of it. I’m happy to–
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 2] But you’re also you’re also charged with forecasting.
[clip of unnamed Senate Banking Committee member 3] What grade would you give the Academy?
[clip of Kevin Warsh] Well, if I gave a student anything other than an A, the Dean would summon me to his office because I would have hurt his self-image.
Jane Coaston: Sorry, a weird dumb joke about grading on a curve doesn’t help Americans feel better about the economy. Finally, remember Tucker Carlson, former Fox News host, spoke at the Republican National Convention in 2024? Big, big, big supporter of Donald Trump? Yeah, apparently he’s sorry about all that. As he said on an episode of his podcast this week where he interviewed his brother, Buckley.
[clip of Tucker Carlson] Now we’re in a weird moment and even stranger moment where a lot of people who really like Trump are very disappointed in Trump. In fact, more than disappointed, feel betrayed or enraged, feel like suckers, feel like they’ve been taken for a ride. How could I possibly have supported that given what it became? A lot of people seem to feel that way. I do think it’s like a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. Uh you know, we’ll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be. And I want to say I’m sorry for misleading people in, it was not intentional. That’s all I’ll say.
Jane Coaston: Crooked Media reached out to the White House about Tucker’s regret, and in response they sent us a link to Trump’s Truth Social post about Tucker from earlier this month, in which Trump said Tucker was a, quote, “hand-flailing fool.” And that’s the news. [music break]
[AD BREAK]
Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, celebrate Donald Trump getting some much-needed reading done, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how Trump and a bunch of his supporters are taking part in a marathon Bible reading event this week called America Reads the Bible, like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston. And will this be the first time Trump has actually had to read the Bible and not just hold it performatively? [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. Our show is produced by Caitlin Plummer, Emily Fohr, Erica Morrison, and Adriene Hill. Our team includes Haley Jones, Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Joseph Dutra, Johanna Case, and Desmond Taylor. Our music is by Kyle Murdock and Jordan Cantor. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]
