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Jane Coaston: It’s Thursday, September 11th. I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show that can’t really think of anything funny to say right now. [music break] On today’s show, former Vice President Kamala Harris tells us how she really feels about former President Joe Biden’s re-election bid in an excerpt from her upcoming book. And NASA works to answer the question, is there life on Mars? But let’s start with some truly horrible news. 

[clip of unknown speaker] To date at approximately 12:20 mountain standard time, political influencer Charlie Kirk was shot in an event at the Utah Valley University. He was taken by private vehicle to Timpanogos Hospital where he later passed. 

Jane Coaston: On Wednesday, 31-year-old conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot and killed during an on-campus event about an hour south of Salt Lake City. He was there as part of his American Comeback Tour, an event series produced by Turning Point USA, the right-wing organization he founded when he was 18 years old. I want to be clear that this is a rapidly developing story. The assassination is being investigated by local and campus police, as well as the FBI and the Utah Department of Public Safety. Again, I want be clear. At the time of this recording on Wednesday at 8 p.m. Eastern, no suspect is in custody and no motive has been determined, even though local politicians have stated this was an act of political violence. But political violence is evil, not just because murder is evil but also because political violence begets political violence, and we’ve seen that trend over and over and over again in recent years. From the January 6th Capitol riot to two assassination attempts against President Donald Trump. To the murder of a Minnesota legislator and her husband just a few weeks ago. Let me say that again, political violence makes more political violence more likely. Here’s Utah Republican Governor Spencer Cox speaking on Wednesday. 

[clip of Governor Spencer Cox] Our nation is broken. We’ve had political assassinations recently in Minnesota. We had an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania. And we had an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate and former president of the United States, and now current president of the United States. Nothing I say can unite us as a country. Nothing I can say right now can fix what is broken. Nothing I can say can bring back Charlie Kirk. 

Jane Coaston: Kirk has been a very important figure within the GOP, particularly because of his work on college campuses, even before President Trump’s first term. So to talk more about Kirk’s impact on conservatism in the American right, I spoke to Tess Owen. She’s a journalist who covers the modern American conservative movement. We spoke at 6:30 p.m. Eastern time on Wednesday. Tess Owen, welcome to What a Day. 

Tess Owen: Thank you so much for having me. 

Jane Coaston: You’ve been reporting on the conservative movement for a very long time, and Charlie Kirk was a major figure, especially for youth, within the conservative movement with an audience of millions. Just who was he? 

Tess Owen: So yeah, I think that Charlie Kirk’s influence cannot be overstated when it comes to his role in revitalizing conservatism on college campuses and bringing Trumpism to college campuses. You know he founded Turning Point USA in 2012. I think it’s pretty fair to say that at that time, you know organized Republican groups had sort of withered. There wasn’t much energy behind it. And I think he really capitalized on kind of conspiracy theories about quote unquote “cultural Marxism” being a plague inside American universities and about, you know, liberal rot at the heart of American education. And he leveraged these conspiracies and they kind of became his brand. 

Jane Coaston: Why do you think he resonated with particularly young people? I mean, I think, you know, I did a lot of reporting on the conservative movement. And one of the challenges conservatives have always had is that conservatism was something for old people and young people were always leftist. So why do you thing he resonated and was so effective with younger audiences? 

Tess Owen: I think they’re like, like Trump. He’s kind of a troll, right? And I think that like bringing that kind of gen Z, kind of nihilistic internet humor to conservatism kind of really helped, I guess, quote unquote, “make it cool again,” if you want to say that. Um. But I think that yeah, you know, his whole trolling attitude and kind of trying to paint liberals um in this as sort of embarrassing, you know, I think that he like really helped do that. That was like, that was like the image he was really trying to project, like kind of turning liberals into a meme, basically. 

Jane Coaston: He was instrumental in rallying young conservatives behind Trump, and he rose to prominence kind of as Trump did. He spoke at the Republican National Convention last year, and the president even credited him with his 2024 victory. How was he able to parlay his cultural prominence among conservatives into real political capital? 

Tess Owen: Yeah, that’s a super interesting question. I mean, yes, his um you’re being brainwashed college tour has been credited with helping Trump clinch the election at least among Gen Z men, right, like his influence is massive. And I think that, you know, throughout his 20s, his profile rose enormously. And he, you, know, through the kind of the cultural stuff, the culture wars became politics, right. And so there really is like kind of hard to know one from the other and I think that you know whenever something has happened in the news in the last few years, and if you want to take a temperature on what’s happening in MAGA or in Trump supporters, one of the first places you go is Charlie Kirk. That’s who you go to see what he’s saying, what he is thinking. Um and I think that as well, in the last few years his views around culture war issues specifically, have become more extreme. And his kind of radicalization over time, in many ways, has mirrored the broader radicalization of the MAGA movement. 

Jane Coaston: Now, obviously, he was a lightning rod to liberals for many reasons, but something I remember when I interviewed him back in 2018, I think, something that was taking place around that time was that he was getting a lot of criticism from the very far right. Um. There was the, you know, the so-called groypers who would show up at his events on college campuses and yell anti-Semitic stuff at him. How did that impact him and what impact did that have on his overall messaging? 

Tess Owen: Right. Because I feel like the Groypa Wars were actually like a really significant moment for the young far right. And some ways you could see that maybe he was like a buttress, right, against the infiltration of these much more extreme factions. But I think as well, they dragged him further to the right as his base became more radicalized. And as the people who would have joined TPSA started kind of following Nick Fuentes and other Nick Fuente’s types. Charlie Kirk kind of had to adapt and also adjust his his rhetoric so that it kind of aligned more with the far right, which again, we’ve seen across, you know, it isn’t just Charlie Kirk. We’ve seen this um with other MAGA personalities as well, how the whole movement has been dragged further and further toward the right. 

Jane Coaston: And just for our audience, because you don’t need to be following these people, the Groypers are a very online movement led by Nick Fuentes, who’s a far-right activist. He’s deeply anti-Semitic, extraordinarily racist, and very popular with a very select segment of Gen Z, right-wing, generally men. So just a just a very brief background there. But something that was interesting to me is that a big feature of his college campus tours were on stage debates. He even went on California governor Gavin Newsom’s podcast earlier this year and got concessions out of the famously liberal governor whose constituents weren’t happy about that. 

[clip of CA Governor Gavin Newsom] You said 2020 is when you started to see the Democrats sort of advance this notion of wokeism. 

[clip of Charlie Kirk] It’s when the woke, the awokening really–

[clip of CA Governor Gavin Newsom] The awokening really started. What was it in total? 

[clip of Charlie Kirk] You know what I’m talking about. 

[clip of CA Governor Gavin Newsom] No, but I so is it, yes we the Latinx stuff that, by the way, not one person ever in my office has ever used the word Latinx. I’m like, what the hell?

[clip of Charlie Kirk] So could we finally put that to bed? We agree. 

[clip of CA Governor Gavin Newsom] Yeah, what the, but where did that even come–

[clip of Charlie Kirk] No more Latinx, everybody. 

[clip of CA Governor Gavin Newsom] I’m like. Well, I just didn’t even know where it came from. I’m like, what are people talking about? 

Jane Coaston: So what do you think that those interactions, because he became more politically prominent in such a way that Governor Newsom wanted to show his heterodox bona fides by talking to Charlie Kirk, what do think that that was indicating about Kirk’s popularity and pull? 

Tess Owen: I think in a way, there’s been so much attention paid to the Gen Z young men, right, and their role in the last election. And I think that Charlie Kirk is kind of the Pied Piper of them. You know he was the Pied Piper of them. I think that he is their voice and he has helped move you know organize them into the solidly Trump voting block. And I think it is useful for any any lawmaker, regardless of what side of the aisle to kind of understand. Kirk. You know he’s not an idiot. Um. I think that you know he has very problematic and very controversial opinions, but he is quick and he’s quite savvy in the way that he’s operated. 

Jane Coaston: I think Kirk’s impact to me is not just about rhetoric, but also about medium. He was very online, very, you know, had a podcast, would go on other people’s podcasts, was doing kind of the live streaming thing that everybody does now. What do you think that means for the conservative movement going from here? Because we’ve already experienced a massive shift, and Kirk has been a part of that, of online culture and politics being determined by liberals to now online culture, and politics being determined in many places by the right. 

Tess Owen: Already many of his past posts have been resurfaced, right, when he responds to previous tragedies, terrible acts of political violence. And I think that at times the tenor at which he approached that or which he responded to those incidents, kind of depending on who the victim was and who the perpetrator was, um may kind of frame the way that things are handled moving forwards, I mean, to talk about his influence. Trump has ordered all federal buildings flags to be flown at half mast. And I think that kind of tells us a lot about where we’re at, which is like our team versus your team or. 

Jane Coaston: So with a proviso that we don’t know anything right now, the right is already making this about politics. Do you think that this will change anything or do you think we’re just kind of in this mode where everything gets ratcheted up all the time forever? 

Tess Owen: I think this is extremely significant. I think this does change a lot. Um. I think this turns Charlie Kirk into a martyr. I think this becomes part of the rights war against quote unquote “left wing violence,” um which as we’ve seen, has kind of been the reasoning behind sending in federal, you know, the National Guard to a number of major American cities. So I think. Again, depending on what happens, I think it’s clear that this will be folded into a narrative that is already being used by the Trump administration. 

Jane Coaston: Tess Owen, thank you so much for your time. 

Tess Owen: Thank you for having me. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Tess Owen, a journalist covering the American conservative movement. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five star review on Apple podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

[AD BREAK]

Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Kamala Harris] He was steady, he was mature, and he made the call every time. Only one person sits behind the resolute desk. 

[clip of Andrew Ross Sorkin] Let me ask you in a more complicated way. I think there’s a lot of people who would say, she can’t say anything else. She couldn’t tell if there was a problem. 

[clip of Kamala Harris] I’m not lying. 

[clip of Andrew Ross Sorkin] If there was a–

[clip of Kamala Harris] I’m telling but I’m telling you a fact. 

[clip of Andrew Ross Sorkin] But if there ever is a problem. 

[clip of Kamala Harris] Yeah. 

[clip of Andrew Ross Sorkin] Do you think that you could go tell the American public? Do you think in your role that you’re in a position to do that? 

[clip of Kamala Harris] Of course, if necessary, but there’s no need for that. 

Jane Coaston: That was former Vice President Kamala Harris speaking to The New York Times’ Andrew Ross Sorkin at a 2023 summit, promising she would never lie to the American public about then President Joe Biden’s health. Well, that was then. Now, we have a little more insight into how she really felt. Harris’s new memoir, 107 Days, doesn’t officially come out until later this month, but an excerpt published in The Atlantic Wednesday is already making waves because it’s a little spicy. She writes of Biden’s decision to run again, quote, “In retrospect, I think it was recklessness. The stakes were simply too high. This wasn’t a choice that should have been left to an individual’s ego and an individual’s ambition.” She also admits that things were smooth sailing until at age 81 when, quote, “Joe got tired.” Well, that was his age during the clip we just played, so make of that what you will. Harris saves her best burns, however, for Biden’s aides, who she says never fully backed or defended her during her term. She even accused them of fueling negative narratives about her because quote, “their thinking was zero-sum.” If she’s shining, he’s dimmed. This all begs the question, why now? Harris said earlier this year that she doesn’t intend to run for California governor. So is she trying to rehab her image for another role? President Trump is doubling down in court again. The Justice Department Wednesday appealed a federal judge’s order blocking Trump from firing Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, which means she’s not going anywhere, for the time being, and would be able to participate in the Fed’s highly anticipated meeting next week, when it is expected to cut interest rates. Cook hasn’t rolled over for Trump, who’s accused her of committing mortgage fraud. And as a famously honest businessman convicted of falsifying business records He can’t condone that. But his attacks on Cook are alarming because the Fed is designed to be independent and insulated from political interference. And the presiding judge agreed, writing, quote, “the public interest in Federal Reserve independence weighs in favor of Cook’s reinstatement. That independence is critical in helping the nation’s banking system promote stability.” Cook is the first Black woman to serve as a governor on the Fed’s board in its 111-year history and the first to face removal effort from a president. Suspected Russian drones crossed into Poland in what European officials described Wednesday as a deliberate provocation. The drones were spotted during a wave of strikes by the Kremlin on Ukraine and prompted NATO to send fighter jets to shoot them down. The Alliance’s secretary general, Mark Rutte, said several allies were involved. All of this has raised some fears that the war could spill over into an entirely new country. The North Atlantic Council met and discussed the situation. 

[clip of Mark Rutte] Allies expressed solidarity with Poland and denounced Russia’s reckless behavior. A full assessment of the incident is ongoing. What is clear is that the violation last night is not an isolated incident. 

Jane Coaston: Russia’s defense ministry said it did not target Poland, while Belarus, a close ally of Moscow, said it tracked some drones that, quote, “lost their course because they were jammed.” Polish airspace has been violated before since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, but never on this scale, in Poland or anywhere else in NATO territory. Rutte said the alliance needs to ramp up defense efforts. 

[clip of Mark Rutte] And let me conclude by saying that Russia is raising a dangerous war of aggression against Ukraine that continually targets civilians and civilian infrastructure. Allies are determined to step up their support for Ukraine in the face of Russia’s escalating campaign. 

Jane Coaston: Meanwhile, President Trump offered an interesting response to the situation on Truth Social, writing, quote, “What’s with Russia violating Poland’s airspace with drones? Here we go.” Helpful. As the late, great, iconic David Bowie once asked, is there life on Mars? Well, if he rephrased slightly to, is there ancient microscopic life on Mars, NASA would be like, maybe. New findings from the Mars Rover published Wednesday are the closest scientists have come to discovering ancient life on the red planet. The Rover uncovered rocks in a dry river channel that show possible evidence of microbial existence. Emphasis on the word possible. Because, like all science, rarely is anything certain, and the details are frankly beyond my current level of understanding which ended at AP Biology. The TLDR, don’t get too excited. The scientists also stress that they need to analyze a sample on Earth before reaching any concrete conclusions. And the plan to bring those samples back from Mars is on hold as NASA looks for cheaper, quicker options. But this is still cool though, right? If ancient microbes could live on Mars, surely I’d be fine. And it looks so peaceful there. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, hope for better days ahead in a country that’s still mostly full of people who don’t suck, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about how seriously, we all want something better than this. And I firmly believe we can make that happen. Like me. What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and hug your kids, your families, your dogs, your cats, and your friends. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Fohr. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Megan Larsen, Gina Pollack, and Jonah Eatman. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. We had help today from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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