• In news that was somehow both genuinely surprising and 100 percent predictable, former Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz withdrew from consideration to be the next U.S. Attorney General on Thursday. If President-elect Donald Trump was upset about the whole thing, he didn’t show it. Within hours, he had a new pick for the job: Former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, another longtime MAGA devotee. Still, it’s also not like Gaetz was Trump’s only problematic nominee, and it’s not clear how many of the others will actually make it through the Senate confirmation process. Tim Miller, host of The Bulwark podcast and a former Republican strategist, explains what Gaetz’s withdrawal means for the rest of Trump’s nominees.
• And headlines: The International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense minister Yoav Gallant, CNN released old tape of RFK Jr. comparing Trump to Hitler, and the Justice Department wants Google to sell off Chrome.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Friday, November 22nd. I’m Jane Coaston. And this is What a Day, the show that stands with AMC theaters in their effort to stop theater kids from singing during showings of Wicked part one. According to Vulture, the theater chain is airing a 30 second ad before the movie asking viewers not to sing along because there will be a singalong version in theaters in December. And also because it’s the most irritating thing I can imagine ever happening in my life. [music break] On today’s show, the International Criminal Court issues a warrant for the arrest of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. And what the WWE has to tell us about a Trump presidency. Let’s get into it. In news that is somehow both genuinely surprising and 100% predictable, former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz withdrew from consideration to be the next U.S. attorney general on Thursday. Surprising, because if there’s one thing Gaetz seems to love, it’s a nasty public fight with people who hate him. Predictable because have you been watching the news lately? Gaetz reportedly bowed out just after CNN told him it had even more damaging details, if you can believe it, about his alleged sexual misconduct. The network reported that the House Ethics Committee was told Gaetz had sex with a 17 year old girl twice at a party in 2017. The committee had been investigating Gaetz up until he resigned from Congress on allegations of sexual misconduct and drug use. Allegations Gaetz has long denied. If President elect Donald Trump was upset about the whole thing, he didn’t show it because within hours he already had a new nominee. Former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. She is best known for being the lead state attorney general in a Republican effort to overturn the Affordable Care Act. Serving on Trump’s legal team during his first impeachment. Oh and dropping an investigation into the scandal plagued Trump University after getting a $25,000 donation from the Donald J. Trump Foundation. At least she has more relevant legal experience than Gaetz. But it’s also not like Gaetz was um Trump’s only problematic nominee. On Thursday, his pick for defense secretary, Fox News’s Pete Hegseth spent his visit to Capitol Hill denying allegations of sexual assault made by a California woman. 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] Did you sexually assaulted a woman in Monterey, California?

[clip of Pete Hegseth] I have, as far as the media is concerned, uh is very simple. The matter was fully investigated and I was completely cleared. And that’s where I am going to leave this. 

Jane Coaston: Hegseth wasn’t completely cleared. He just wasn’t charged. And then there’s Trump’s pick for secretary of education, Linda McMahon. She’s facing abuse allegations as well, that she and her husband enabled the sexual assault of children while they were running World Wrestling Entertainment. This is all to say nothing of the Trump picks who are just unqualified. So for more on what Gaetz’s withdrawal says about the state of the GOP and what it means for Trump’s other batshit crazy nominees, I spoke with Tim Miller. He hosts the Bulwark podcast and is a former Republican strategist. We spoke just before news about Bondi broke. Tim, welcome to What a Day. 

Tim Miller: Hey, Jane, it’s good to be here with you. I’m just happy we’re in your reign here on What a Day. 

Jane Coaston: I know. Okay, so let’s get to the big question. Why did Gaetz drop out? 

Tim Miller: Because he couldn’t get the votes um is the stated position right now. And um I just my spidey sense is up on it a little bit. Um. So I’ll just be straight. Like I trust our my colleague Marc Caputo is as good of a reporter on Florida man MAGA politicians as anybody. And what his reporting says is that he made the rounds. There were at least six senators who were very strong nosed and uh he was talking to Trump. And Trump is basically like sorry bruh, uh that’s it’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen. Let’s just move forward. I’m I’m open to the fact that that’s the story, though it is a little befuddling to me about why Donald Trump coming off this big victory, where he has the mandate of God, did not push his team through. Um. And so it makes me think that there’s something else to the story, whether that is more coming out about the ethics report or whether there’s some other behind the scenes little deal that Gaetz and Trump have, I don’t know. Um. But I’m open to there being more to the story. 

Jane Coaston: How much was the collapse of this nomination about the allegations against Gaetz and his total lack of qualifications? And how much is it about the fact that Matt Gaetz was an asshole to everyone in Congress, including Mitch McConnell, whom he once called Mitch McFailure? 

Tim Miller: Uh. It was because he was an asshole to his colleagues. And and the evidence for this is very simple. Pete Hegseth is still under nomination uh for secretary of defense. Pete Hegseth has, I would say, equal or greater personal foibles to Matt Gaetz. If you looked at the police report that came out where there’s a woman who alleges that he sexually assaulted her at a conservative conference when when he was drunk. Um. And on top of that, when it comes to his actual credentials, he has fewer than Gaetz. And so then why is Gaetz out but Hegseth’s in? The answer is simple. Gaetz is an asshole and the Republicans weren’t going to support him. Hegseth gave them all softball questions on the couch at Fox and Friends and said I don’t have any issue with them. Like you know, I don’t think it takes a genius to figure it out. 

Jane Coaston: We already mentioned Hegseth but what does this mean for the other nominations? Former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, who he wants for DNI. RFK Jr for Health and Human Services. Like, is this good for them? Bad for them? What does it mean? 

Tim Miller: Feels to me that it’s bad for them um because the whole sacrificial lamb theory is based on like when you’re actually into the horse trading mode of all this, right? Like that happens later. This is all so early. I know it feels like a lifetime ago, but like the election was only two weeks ago and the Trump doesn’t become actually president again for two months. Right. So we’re a long time away from these hearings. Um. And so if Gaetz had dropped like in late January, you know, it was like, oh this is becoming too much of a hassle. That would have been a good sign for the other ones because they they would have been cutting a deal behind the scenes and like, we’ll we’ll make Gaetz a sacrificial lamb, put these other guys through. That’s not where we’re at. Like, we’ve got two months, to me this is more like a blood in the water type situation where some of these senators are like, oh maybe can get a couple of these other terrible people out over the holidays while we have the chance. So I’m not out there predicting that any of them drop. Um. But I think that on balance, it makes their nominations a little rockier. 

Jane Coaston: So something I’ve been thinking about with regard to Senate Republicans is like they’re dealing with a lame duck president who they might outlast in office. 

Tim Miller: –ish. 

Jane Coaston: And so and like, you know, Trump is old. Does this show that they have a spine or am I just kidding myself? 

Tim Miller: It’s a good question. So I’ll just admit, for the listeners, I thought Gaetz was going to be attorney general, so I was wrong about this. Um. And the question that remains is, is my wrongness because I misjudged the amount of spine the Republican senators are going to have? And like because of the reasons you just laid out, lame duckness, age, you know, uh the narrowness of their majorities. Um. Or was this a situation where, you know, Gaetz just didn’t want to deal with the smoke and, you know, kind of pulled the plug himself and honestly, had push come to shove and Trump really twisted arms he could have gotten through. Right? We just I just we don’t have that information yet. So to me, I think what this is, is a it’s an eyebrow raised. It’s like huh, could these Republican senators have a spine after all? Maybe. I don’t know. Maybe. Um. And so I’m not optimistic. I’m not getting my hopes up. But I would say, you know, just based on new information, changing priors based on new information, I think it’s at least possible that if you look at, you know, you already had Murkowski and Collins, you only need to get two more of anything. And if Mitch McConnell is just in yolo mode and he’s just like, F this guy, I’m going to retire anyway, I have health problems. You know, I had polio. I’m not going to put the anti-vaxxer in HHS and um I’m going to make it hard on him. That’s possible. I mean, would I bet my anything would I bet a dollar on it? No, but uh it seems more possible today than it seemed yesterday. 

Jane Coaston: Yeah. Let’s let’s talk a little bit about Mitch McConnell, because I, I do think it was kind of funny, the idea that like Trump and Gaetz were going to play super hard ball with Mitch McConnell, who if I’ve learned anything over the last ten years, you don’t play super hardball with Mitch McConnell. And he, as you mentioned, was one of the senators who wouldn’t vote for Gaetz. Is he basically going to determine whether these nominees sink or swim? 

Tim Miller: He’s pretty key. And I don’t I guess I haven’t heard any like evidence that he’s had a detente, like Trump did, a detente with Brian Kemp, for example in Georgia before the campaign. We’ve heard nothing like that out of McConnell and Trump world. And so if you have McConnell and Murkowski and Collins, you know, now you’re down to 50/50, right? Um. And so you could jam through a 50/50 nomination with with J.D. Vance. But um things get a lot dicier. You can have one other person, you know, in a in a Gabbard situation, might one of the hawks not one of not want to confirm her. You know, in the RFK situation might there be I don’t know like Chuck Grassley not want to, to because of, you know, he loves pesticides. Right like I don’t, you know if you get down to a thing–

Jane Coaston: He loves corn. He loves corn.

Tim Miller: –where you only have one margin, a one vote margin. Weird stuff can happen. Um. So I think that McConnell’s role is interesting. You know, I’ll believe when I see it, I guess is what I’ll say. But I but I do think that uh, you know, if he’s retiring, he’s a lame duck himself and he’s pissed at Trump, then I don’t know why not? 

Jane Coaston: Tim. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. 

Tim Miller: The pleasure is always mine, Jane. We’ll see you soon. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Tim Miller, host of the Bulwark podcast and former Republican strategist. We got back in touch with Tim after the interview to get his reaction to Bondi’s nomination. Here’s what he had to say. 

[clip of Tim Miller] She is a throwback. This is for the OGs. She was with Trump at the beginning. She endorsed Trump over Marco and Jeb back in 2016. This is the type of person he picks. He looks she looks the part. And more than anything, she was a guest host on The Five on Fox. So I’m not surprised. I’m not sure that she’s quite as conniving as Gaetz. So in some sense, that’s a change. But she’s going to know her way around the building better than he would have, having been Florida attorney general. So I’d call it basically a lateral move uh for those of us who are concerned about how the Justice Department is going to look in the Trump administration. 

Jane Coaston: We’ll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe. Leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: And now the news. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of Karine Jean-Pierre] We remain deeply concerned by the prosecutor’s rush to seek arrest warrants and the troubling process errors that led to this decision. 

Jane Coaston: During a press briefing on Thursday. White House Press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre condemned the International Criminal Court. The ICC issued warrants for the arrest of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense minister, Yoav Gallant, for war crimes. Hamas military chief Mohammed Deif was issued a warrant for crimes against humanity over the kidnapping of Israeli hostages. The Israeli military claims it killed Deif in the summer, though the ICC says it hasn’t confirmed his killing. Prosecutors for the court announced that they would seek the warrants back in May. And on Thursday, Netanyahu said he would not comply, calling the decision anti-Semitic. But Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, one of the ICC’s 124 member countries, says he will arrest Netanyahu if he steps foot on Canadian soil. 

[clip of Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau] As Canada has always said, it’s really important that everyone abide by international law. This is something we’ve been calling on from the beginning of the conflict. 

Jane Coaston: Israel argues that the court does not have jurisdiction over the country because Israel is not a member and neither is the U.S.. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is under fire yet again. On Thursday, CNN released old tape of RFK Jr. comparing his future boss to Hitler. In a clip from Kennedy’s radio show in 2016, he praised a reporter who once called Trump supporters, quote, “belligerent idiots and compared them to Nazis.” In fact, he liked the article so much he recited it on air. 

[clip of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.] We may not have that many outright Nazis in America, but we have plenty of cowards and bootlickers. And once those fleshy dominoes start tumbling into the Trump camp, the game is up. 

Jane Coaston: Trump has tapped RFK Jr to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services, something I still can’t believe we have to acknowledge every time we talk about him. Kennedy told CNN that he regrets what he said because, of course he does. What what browser do you use? Is it Chrome? Then you’re probably using it to do Google searches too. And that’s a problem for the Department of Justice. In August, a U.S. district court judge ruled that Google had an illegal monopoly over Internet search. Now, federal prosecutors are asking Google’s parent company, Alphabet, to do four things. One, sell its beloved Chrome Web browser. Two, stop paying phone makers like Apple to make Google the default search engine. Three, allow websites to opt out of having their data used to train Google’s A.I.. And four, either stop making Android phones or let the court oversee Google’s Android division. Sounds like a tall order. Google is preparing to file its plan to fix the search monopoly by December 20th. The House of Representatives passed a bill Thursday that would authorize the Treasury Department to unilaterally remove tax exempt status for nonprofits it deems to support terrorism. House Ways and Means Committee Chair Jason Smith of Missouri championed the bill ahead of the vote. He argued that Democrats who once supported the legislation only oppose it now because Donald Trump has been elected. 

[clip of Jason Smith] If we’re truly against terrorism, our actions will speak louder and we will vote for this legislation. But we’ll see. We’ll see who’s brave on the other side, who wants to stand with real America and not woke policies. 

Jane Coaston: The bill raises concerns for civil liberties groups about funding. Given that the Treasury secretary is presidentially appointed and what Donald Trump thinks is terrorism is not always what I think is terrorism. The ACLU, along with almost 300 other nonprofit organizations from Planned Parenthood and the NAACP to the AFL-CIO and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America wrote a letter to the House urging members to vote against the bill. Democratic Representative Pramila Jayapal from Washington State called it a, quote, “authoritarian play by Republicans” and said it would stifle political dissent. 

[clip of Representative Pramila Jayapal] It allows Republicans to empower Donald Trump to go after enemies at will, to put out of business hospitals that provide reproductive care to women. To label environmental advocates as eco terrorists. To target humanitarian organizations or the foundations that support them to punish news organizations and think tanks that put out research or policies that contradict Donald Trump. To obliterate civil liberties groups who seek to protect those very liberties from authoritarianism. 

Jane Coaston: The bill now heads to the Democratic controlled Senate. And that’s the news. [music break] One more thing. Back in 2013, before he launched his journey down the golden escalator and into our lives, whether we wanted it or not, Donald Trump was named to the World Wrestling Entertainment Hall of Fame. Here he is thanking former WWE CEO Vince McMahon. 

[clip of President elect Donald Trump] Vince and I have had an amazing relationship for many years. 

Jane Coaston: And almost everything about Trump makes a lot more sense when you see it through the lens of professional wrestling. Like his pick for education secretary, Linda McMahon, Vince McMahon’s wife. 

[clip from a WWE wrestling match] Oh my God. 

Jane Coaston: We mentioned her a little earlier, and there’s a lot to say about Linda McMahon, the actual person, like her involvement in allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of young boys and widespread allegations of sex trafficking taking place under her nose while she was working at the WWE. Or the horrifying and tragic death of Owen Hart during a wrestling promotion or basically the entire 1980s in wrestling. But it’s worth thinking about her time in the ring too. 

[clip of Linda McMahon] And speaking of WrestleMania, Vince, I can’t tell you how good it felt to kick you in um well, how was it you so delicately put it? Your gonads? I could kick you in a lot of places. But I really know where it’ll hurt the most. 

Jane Coaston: Because she spent a fair amount of time in the ring. 

[clip of Linda McMahon] Vince. I didn’t come here for an apology. You read my lips, I want a divorce. 

Jane Coaston: See. No, she didn’t. Because this wasn’t real. Though Linda McMahon recently confirmed that the two has separated. There’s a concept that comes out of pro wrestling called kayfabe. Basically, it’s a staging of fake events as real. Performance as truth in other words. Vince McMahon did not actually fight God at Backlash 2006 and Linda McMahon did not actually want to fight her daughter at Smackdown in 2000. 

[clip of McMahon daughter] But mom. Just remember, like you told me when I was a little girl. This is going to hurt me a lot worse than it hurts you. 

Jane Coaston: I think that’s something to remember about how Trump does pretty much everything. A lot of it is performance. In wrestling parlance, it’s a work. When Trump brags about how big his crowd sizes are or demands that his political opponents be put on trial for crimes he just made up. He is performing the part of Donald Trump, but he is actually going to be in charge of our government again. And the lives of millions of Americans are real and so are their concerns. You can’t blur the line between reality and performance when you’re talking about child hunger and nuclear war. Real is real and fake is fake. Now, Linda McMahon is likely to be in charge of a massive department responsible for kids with disabilities getting the services they need and ensuring that rural schools receive funding to get kids to school on time. That’s not a work. That’s not kayfabe. I hope she’s ready. I don’t think she is. [music break] 

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe. Leave a review. Do not sing at movies and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading and not just the book Ringmaster to understand way more than you ever needed to know about WWE like me, What a Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston and keep your theater kid energy to yourself. [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Raven Yamamoto. Our producer is Michell Eloy. We had production help today from Tyler Hill, Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters and Julia Claire. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adriene Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. [music break]

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