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This week, Louis Virtel is joined by New York Times awards columnist Kyle Buchanan to discuss Bugonia, Rachel Sennott’s new series I Love LA, Hollywood streaks that need to come to an end, the viral AI Friends clip, and Jonathan Bailey’s Sexiest Man Alive cover.

 

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TRANSCRIPT

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Louis Virtel And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Louis Virtel, and I know you can’t see this if you’re listening to the podcast. We’re in the big studio. There’s just so much writer in here. So I feel like my opinions are really gonna fly. And they’re gonna have to fly because I’m seated directly and diametrically across from Kyle Buchanan, like we’re in Alice in Wonderland. I feel we’re like the Tom Petty, don’t come around here, no more video.

 

Kyle Buchanan Okay, so good. It’s not the Tim Burton version of Alice in Wonderland.

 

Louis Virtel Um, that Helena will be invited eventually, but not here it’s implied. Um, Kyle Buchanan returning to Keep It. The fabulous New York times film writer, film opinionator, uh, and we were just discussing, you have seen almost everything that this Oscar season will have to offer already, like it’s over for you. Christmas already happened.

 

Kyle Buchanan Just about, there’s maybe one or two more movies, but it is an unusual Oscar season. I’ve heard you kind of talk about this on previous episodes where it feels like, is that all there is? I mean, there are some good ones for sure, but it does kind of feel like, what are we gonna have? We gotta fill this best picture list with 10.

 

Louis Virtel Right. We got maybe three or four. Well, it’s not only that there are a few that are good, it is one is way out ahead of all the others. That’s true. One battle after another, which we discussed a few weeks ago. And so it feels extra anti-climactic in that way. Like, how can anybody supersede the momentum that movie has going in terms of star power, in terms of PTA finally having its directorial moment? You know, it all like lining up for the awards day is exactly right for them.

 

Kyle Buchanan No, you’re exactly right. You know, it’s going to have a sort of like Oppenheimer like stranglehold on this season, although it’s still sort of exciting. Paul Thomas Anderson, extremely overdue, kind of curious to see who else from that film can make it in, if Tiana Taylor could maybe even make a run for supporting actress. And when you say Tiana, you mean in the TV show All’s Fair?

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah, absolutely. I was just on Sunset and there were billboards where like the women of that show, there’s multiple billboards, where it’s like Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close and Tiana Taylor walking in tandem. And I’m just saying like, so a lot of these people are already the Ryan Murphy crew. Tiana, Taylor, for her to be in that now while she’s in the movie of the year feels very crazy. I can’t think of any awards season timing that’s ever worked out like that.

 

Kyle Buchanan I believe that she was a Halle Berry recast because I was originally supposed to be Halle Berry and she dropped out which would have made sense as far as the Ryan Murphy ecosystem goes. Yes. But Tiana Taylor, yeah, they really got her on the come up. Speaking of-

 

Louis Virtel There’s a new HBO Max show called I Love LA starring, I’m going to say like the mascots of the East side of Los Angeles, namely Rachel Sennett, who most people know from bottoms, but she was in Shiva baby, she’s around very funny Instagram presence. But this, finally we have a show about self-absorbed LA people. And I say that, that sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but I feel like this show almost should have happened six years ago already, where you get the sort of navel gazing. Silver lakers drinking cold brew and mysteriously have too much money and we don’t know why kind of crowd.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah. Also, is it about LA or is it about what New Yorkers think of LA? It does feel as if it’s, shall we say, dripping with contempt. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, Rachel Sennett, an iconic LA viral video maker of a 2020 vintage. But she reads New York. In fact, almost everybody does. And the vibe is very New York, you know, so from the casting to the writing, it feels very New Yorkers who just landed on planet LA and they’re telling you how it is. Uh… Which is uh… Interesting tactic to take i’d just wish like okay if this is actually in l a show let it be that and not a stealth what new yorkers think about a show.

 

Louis Virtel Mm-hmm. Though, I have to say I’ve been so braced over the past 10 years by like the Instagram universe of like self-absorbed, I’m loving a whole bunch of people together, but like Kate Berlant, people whose whole thing is like, I’m trying to sound like I really care, but I’m really self-obsorbed. The fact that we finally get that show, I was braced to know exactly what it is. And I’m actually happy to know exactly, what it was. It was, it was funny to me. I think it’s really well directed. It looks good. So even if it does have a little bit of contempt for LA, I think it is a loving contempt.

 

Kyle Buchanan That’s what I’m trying to see. Like maybe it becomes like more of a loving contempt because we just know, you and I, Louis, I’m sure, a lot of New York comedians who moved to LA with kind of like a bungee cord attached where they can’t quite let themselves like it. And maybe it’s just because it’s the pilot, but you know when you have complaints about like, oh, the weather is too perfect or, oh, you have to drive everywhere. Like I’m so tired of you have drive. Like, did nobody else grow up in a suburb?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Like, come on. Let me just say, if you haven’t experienced a giant movie theater parking lot. Oh my God. If you didn’t learn to parallel park there, you’re not a person to me.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, so it’s like, you know, I just often find that New Yorkers are telling on themselves when they talk about LA because like truly 100% of the time when New Yorker’s are like, let me satirize or complain about this attitude, this like fakeness or the shallowness that a Los Angeles person has, they are almost invariably talking about another New York who just moved here. I’m like, this is not a symbol of everything you hate about LA. This is somebody that you lived catty corner to in Williamsburg. You probably share…

 

Louis Virtel Now, I want to say, you’re like an honorary mayor of the East Side. When I think of people who have known forever in the Silver Lake Outwater area, you are one of them. So do you find anything in this show that feels representative that you’re happy to see or what are you waiting to see?

 

Kyle Buchanan Look, I have a Pavlovian response to seeing things like, you know, Ackbar or the Vista Theater or El Cid. I’m like, yeah, I know those places. I’m a little bit concerned that like, you know if this blows up in a certain way that some of these places might get overrun, like I’m bracing myself for an episode to be set during the happy hour at Figaro. It’s hard enough to get a table out there, you now? But yeah, I don’t know, I guess I just want like a little bit more of that flavor like at said happy hour a couple weeks ago. I was sitting next to a straight man who was very thoroughly explaining the plot of The Hunger Games Catching Fire to his captive girlfriend. Oh, I’m sorry, going to be physically ill. Go ahead. And I just kept eavesdropping because how can you not over my, you know, glass of Happy Hour Rosé? And at one point while describing a twist from Catching fire, he said to her the phrase that I will never forget. He said, Katniss was gooped. And I was like, a straight men is saying this? And this was not a gay man saying this to his best friend. This was a straight man. Unambiguously saying this to his girlfriend. And I thought to myself, let me look over. I just am so curious. Like I’ve been trying not to make eye contact, but I must see the straight man who just said the phrase, Katniss was gooped. And I looked over and I shit you not, it was Phineas. Billy Eilish’s brother, Phineus. See, that’s why I love LA. That is why I live LA.

 

Louis Virtel He was a two time Oscar-winning.

 

Kyle Buchanan Two-time Oscar-Winning songwriter.

 

Louis Virtel Straight, gooped man. Oh my God, that is so shocking. Also, who knew he was into the Hunger Games that much?

 

Kyle Buchanan Who knew? But I guess we all were at a certain phase.

 

Louis Virtel I just don’t know that I would never need to describe it like plot point by plot point. I don’t what that would get me out of a conversation or into a conversation.

 

Kyle Buchanan There are a lot of plot points. Now, Louis, you are right. I am an inveterate insider, but you used to live there too. Did it give you a little whiff of what you missed?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I mean, it’s it’s so pleasant to live over there. And like, you know, what’s weird is this show is actually more straight culture than you would expect. Like there are gay characters, but they do remind me of who I would see walking around like Sunset Junction. Whatever. So there does feel something lightly anthropological. Joan Didion as.

 

Kyle Buchanan If you will, about this. Yeah, the most sort of LA thing about it, honestly, to me, was Josh Hutcherson’s very chill, straight boyfriend who has a neurotic, New York-coded girlfriend. That is absolutely an East Side couple. I know that couple well.

 

Louis Virtel That Finneas story also reminds me, during the Domingo sketches on SNL, do you know my favorite part of those is- Do you have one? At the beginning, when the husband, is it Andrew Dismukes? Is that his name? He’s trying to play along with the bridesmaids, whatever, and he says things like, drag me. A straight guy trying to play along and using lingo always makes me laugh.

 

Kyle Buchanan You know, watching this, I was thinking to myself, sort of exactly what you said earlier, which is why don’t we have more depictions of LA on like, in movies, on TV, you’d think there would be more given how many people live in Hollywood, but I feel like, I don’t know, there ought to be more. When I even think about favorite LA movies.

 

Louis Virtel I know

 

Kyle Buchanan I have to cast my mind back a while to like, you know, clueless or shampoo. I know.

 

Louis Virtel Recently, I think Letterboxd asked a bunch of people what their favorite L.A. Movies were. And when I watch these interviews, I get annoyed because I know what I would say no matter what, no matter the question is. Except when they asked about this L. A. Question, I immediately was like, I guess it would have to be really old, something like Shampoo or American Jiggle, at least the beginning of American Jiggalo, clueless. But over the past 15 years, the definitive L. A movie, the first thing that came to mind was 500 Days of Summer. Oh, really? I just assume

 

Kyle Buchanan Everybody was going to say

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Well, that’s, I mean, and that is pleasant and a loving homage to, um, L.A., but no, not my favorite. The middle part of that movie, when they start having fights about whatever they’re fighting about. Yeah. Rewrite.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, I mean, not no, I mean, La La Land is definitely, you know, it exudes LA. The most LA thing about it is that Rosemarie DeWitt is

 

Louis Virtel which is kind of around. Very bad. You might see her. And you might see J.K. Simmons in a restaurant. Yes, that’s right. But briefly. Oh, by the way, remember when he played Milton Berle in that fucking Saturday Night Live movie? What a wacky performance.

 

Kyle Buchanan Now you’re referring to a Nicole Kidman awards vehicle as a Saturday Night Live movie.

 

Louis Virtel No, Saturday night, the, oh, no, he, he’s in the,

 

Kyle Buchanan Oh, you thought I was confusing it for the one where he being the Ricardos. Yeah

 

Louis Virtel Oscar nominated performance

 

Kyle Buchanan Boy, what a chaotic IMDb that you have those two roles on it.

 

Louis Virtel No, just the most gnarled like get me the fuck off this set type dudes

 

Speaker 3 You

 

Louis Virtel Whoever lived. Anyway, this episode, we wanted Kyle to be unbridled with his movie opinions. So it’ll just be he and I chatting it up. But elsewhere, we’ll talk about the movie Begonia, the new Yorgos Lanthimos movie starring Emma Stone. We’re late coming to this movie here at Keep It, but I think it’s one of the more interesting provocations of award season. And again, our award seasons are lacking right now. So that would be fun to get into with you. I also feel like you in particular dial into Emma Stone I do, absolutely. Are there people who don’t? Do you bounce off? No, I’m just, I know everybody likes her to an acceptable degree, I find, but I feel like you, you could write like the definitive profile, for example. And perhaps have. Okay. So we’ll get into that. And then we’re also going to get into Hollywood streaks, historical streaks. Streaks we wish would come to an end in celebration quotes of the LA Dodgers who won their second World Series in a row. I have to say I caught the last couple minutes of the game while I was at some pregame over the weekend. And I don’t know who else to put this, this sounds cliche. The mask comes out of me. I’m like, I’m fraught and I feel like my dad, I feel like Vic Morrow in the Bad News Bears on the third baseline being a little bastard.

 

Kyle Buchanan No, I mean, like, look, I’m a native Southern Californian and definitely the masked sports fan comes out of me, but so does the contemporary gay adult, who’s like, if you have Otani Yamamoto fan fiction, I’ll read it. Oh, okay. Oh my God, fan fiction.

 

Louis Virtel Remember that? Stephanie Meyer, we speak your name. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Bugonia, the fourth collaboration between Emma Stone and Yorgos Lanthimos, is out in theaters nationwide. It’s done generally well with critics, but doesn’t seem to have as much Oscar’s buzz as expected. Kyle and I both saw it without having to shave our heads. So Kyle, what were your initial thoughts?

 

Kyle Buchanan Thoughts after leaving the theater. First of all, Louis, I like that you kind of pronounced it like boogonia, like we’re still doing the Halloween nickname thing.

 

Louis Virtel That’s my Twitter handle in 2016, yeah. No, because begonia is spelled differently, boogonia.

 

Kyle Buchanan What were my thoughts when I left the theater? They were complicated. I don’t know if you’re about to rave it or diss it, but I feel like you could do either and I’d probably not. Great performances. You know, I don’t have any quibbles with Emma Stone. I think Jesse Plemons is incredible. Love that he’s working with Yorgos Lanthimos because I think he brings something very to a world that doesn’t always seem that way. And certainly, you know, Lanthimos takes this material and makes it something that feels, that could be very claustrophobic or, I don’t know, even stage-bound and makes feel like a movie. And yet, I dunno. I felt like I was wanting more, that it was a little thinner than I expected. What did you think?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, well, I am thankful for Jesse Plemons in that this is so obvious because he sometimes has a passing resemblance to him and could play him in a biopic, but the way he plays Frustration reminds me a little bit of a Philip Seymour Hoffman. There’s just something generally palpably human about the characters he plays. Even if they sometimes run a little samey to me, it’s like every director is inspired by him, so he kind of can play anything or gets to play anything, but he is really good in this movie. I wonder if I would feel a little more positively about this movie if we didn’t just get poor things from Emma and Your Ghost, which was, you know, a step into the bizarre, the look is stark and strange. There are science fiction elements or fantastical elements. And in that movie, you got to be shocked by Emma Stone doing things that weren’t just immediately relatable in the E.Z.A. Mold or the crazy stupid love mold. So I feel like if I didn’t have that movie I might. Find this movie a little bit more memorable, but honestly, I come out of it feeling a little mid-tier compared to what they’ve done before. I would line it up more with kinds of kindness than I would with poor things are the favorite.

 

Kyle Buchanan Which I liked more than this. I like kinds of kindness more than that, but this is a very interesting partnership to parse. I think that when Emma Stone first started working with Yorgos, it was exciting because it’s like, oh, she’s so mainstream. What’s she going to do in this world? And you described Jennifer Lawrence on the show last week in your Keep It. You were talking about how Jennifer Lawrence in her press appearances, in her interviews, gives that kind of like populist movie star vibe that often you did not see in her very depressing movies, you know, in her dramatic movies that maybe didn’t leverage her comedic star persona enough. The union of Yorgos and Emma, I think is actually interesting because even though it’s elevated, even though its a tourist, you’re still getting funny Emma, you know? You’re just getting it in unexpected ways.

 

Louis Virtel I do feel like in this movie though, she doesn’t get a ton of opportunity to be funny. And in fact, I think what this movie actually boils down to is, okay, she plays a woman who is like a highfalutin CEO of a company who was kidnapped by an underling at the company. And that guy in a kind of dark web way believes she’s an alien. And she’s sort of negotiating her way out of it. I feel like you mostly kind of get one mode of negotiation for Emma Stone in this movie. So there’s just not a lot of levels for her to play. Even though there’s a twist eventually in the movie where you get to see a little bit more opera buffa from Emma Stone. But ultimately it kind of stays at one level, even though the movie is this shocking, floral, gross display of color and style.

 

Kyle Buchanan I agree with you and I think that’s a script problem, you know? Jorgos Lainzmos did not write this. And I feel like he is always yearning to take things in a somewhat more surreal direction that’s maybe kind of appreciated when you get to something that feels a little bit to one note, like this story does. You’re exactly right in that, you now, it’s essentially a series of confrontations that almost never leave this house that he’s kidnapped her to. But it feels like you’re kind of that same confrontation over and over. To the point where the movie is either treading water or delaying some eventual twist or reveal. And they’re both great actors, so they can make meals of what they’re given, but I just wish it was a more expansive buffet.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, the meal ends up being pretty long because we’re stuck in one. You know what I just rewatched recently? This has nothing to do with this movie, but Chasing Amy. Why did you rewatch that? I don’t know. It came up on Prime or something. I have no answer to that. But you forget that like in rom-coms, most movies really, in order to make a movie an hour and a half long, they’ll just make a scene too long. Like there’s a scene where Joey Lauren Adams is crying in an argument for, I’m gonna say, 11 minutes. And that’s kind of how it feels here, like are these scenes too long just so we feel like we have a movie length story? Because it sort of feels like, and it’s based on a Korean movie called Save the Green Planet, but it feels like it’s on a short story.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, very that. Wow, chasing Amy. Haven’t thought about that in a while. A weirdly important and pivotal movie for me when it came to processing my own sexuality. I remember making my own- That was cute. I made my mom watch it? Why? What? It was like, you’ll understand me better if you watch Chasing Amy? I don’t know. I just thought Jason Lee was cute in it, I guess.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah. Well, Kevin Smith is also the rare kind of like very straight guy who I feel like does not bat an eye at anything gay.

 

Kyle Buchanan No, absolutely not.

 

Louis Virtel When you cast Alanis Morissette as God, you know, you have a spot on my float in the parade.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, but with Begonia, I mean, you know, there’s like a little bit of verve to the idea of, you know she shaved her head and how far everybody goes in it. But I also kind of wanted them to pull back a little. I don’t know, just watching Jesse Plemons torture Emma Stone in increasingly elaborate ways wasn’t giving me much that I didn’t glean from literally the synopsis. Yeah, right.

 

Louis Virtel I think the best performance in the movie belongs to Aidan Delbis. This is an autistic actor who plays Jesse Plemons’ brother and he ends up acting as sort of his henchman in this kidnapping plot. The character was really surprising to me. I loved what the character knew, didn’t know how he was able to be manipulated, how he knew he was being manipulated. There’s just a lot going on with the character. It ends up being the most complicated character in the whole movie, really.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, and that actor was only, I think, 18 when they shot the movie, which is wild. To be holding your own opposite those two veterans, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, these definitive moviestars of our time.

 

Kyle Buchanan And that’s something that Yorgos Lanthimos likes to do a lot. He likes to take, you know, veteran, experienced actors, and we’re talking about them like they’re 80, but like, you now, they’ve been doing it a long time and they know what they’re doing. He likes take people like that, and even if it’s just like, you know a small role or a big one in this case, throw them opposite people who don’t do this for a living, whose energies are going to be completely different. And sometimes that produces something that feels sort of unexpected and like, pleasingly, you know, friction laden. Sometimes it’s Emma Stone acting opposite Gerard Carmichael and it doesn’t go as good, but you know it’s an interesting approach.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say I’m, I guess, proud of Yorgos Lanthimos in that he can make movies about very disparate subject matters. And there really is a through line with his movies. That sense of, obviously there’s a lot of physical style, but there’s always the sense that something is curdled. You know, like among the characters, there’s like a festering something that they have to explore. And so, you know the movie’s gonna get really gritty in a way that other directors won’t get to. And in that way, this movie feels like it’s piece with the favorite and killing of a sacred deer and all these movies where it’s just, it’s a little too fucked up. You know, he’s almost like the new Cronenberg in that way where I would leave a Croninberg movie and just my takeaway is what is wrong with this man? Why do I have to see it, you know?

 

Kyle Buchanan You know, you were hinting earlier at how prolific this union has been and they do put out a movie at this point almost every year. You know I’ve sent some social media discontent even before Bougonia came out, or Bougona if you prefer it that way, of well maybe this is a partnership that should end, are they really getting a lot out of each other anymore, do you think that they should keep going? I will say I’ve, uh, yo-verdosed on yo-

 

Louis Virtel Yorgos a little bit, Yorgodost. I wanted that pun to work. Yeah, I’m going, yeah. No, but at the same time, he’s so willing to try new things and so is she that I feel like whatever we get from them is unexpected. So I don’t think it needs to stop quite yet.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, I agree with you, although, you know, Yorgos has been talking about taking a break, which I think is always like, you now, it’s nice to refresh yourself when you’re making movies to this degree. On that Jennifer Lawrence tip, though, I kind of would like to see Emma Stone just do a full-blown movie star turn where she kind of just seems like Emma Stone. I think this is a valuable part of the star persona that we kind of don’t have anymore. But you know it used to be that you would get people, you know make a stars like. Denzel Washington, Julia Roberts, Angelina Jolie, Sandra Bullock, and you felt like you knew them because of the roles that they were taking. And you know, we know that Emma Stone can stretch and she’s certainly proven that in these Your Ghost movies. But just like Jennifer Lawrence, who wasn’t really doing comedies until even something like No Hard Feelings, I kind of want to see Emma Stone be Emma Stone in a movie. And I wouldn’t mind if she took a little break from Your Ghost. To give us that full Emma Stone experience that we get on a talk show or in a red carpet or doing hot ones or what have you in a film. Well, she’s married to an SNL guy.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like she will return to big laughs too. I mean, I just think she generally appreciates that. She’s one of those people who can’t stop talking about old SNL, like she’s a big Gilda Radner fan and stuff. So I do think we will get that from her. I will say about the arc of her career, she’s done being weird in the correct order. I always say like, when you think of, for example, this is just, who’s coming to mind, the Beatles. They had the very crowd pleasing, please, please me, I want to hold your hand stuff first. And you only appreciate the yellow submarine into Magical Mystery Tour into Sergeant Peppers because it comes afterwards. Like we know who they are. So now we can watch them be something unfamiliar and we go with them on that journey. They don’t start out weird. You know what I mean? So I feel like she’s just done her career in the proper order. And now she can go back to basics. You know, there are plenty of people who’ve, even like the start of Madonna’s career was just like. Here’s just a dance, here’s dance music. And now I’m gonna get controversial. Now I’m going to bring in the burning crosses. You know, it’s like you add to your familiarity with unfamiliar things.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, you know, and you’re absolutely right, and she’s capable of so much. It’s why she’s so good on SNL, because you can pretty much throw anything at her and she is satisfyingly good at it. But yeah, I would like to see like a little bit more of that return to, I don’t know, dare I say normalcy. Not just from Emma Stone, but from a lot of actors. I think that we are always eager to go see an Emma Stone movie because we trust her taste. But I do miss going to see a movie star movie to watch a movie start, be a movie stars. And she’s a movie star being an actress, doing it ably, but just give us some movie star shine. I know what we do.

 

Louis Virtel Just don’t value movie stars in the way we used to. I mean, like a movie that always comes up between you and me and between whoever talks to me, the talented Mr. Ripley, just letting people be glamorous and have mystique and in that case, Hitchcockian, but like you really are in awe of what they bring to the screen, even just physically. Like they look like they’re on currency or something. You know, they’re that iconic.

 

Kyle Buchanan Okay. Here’s a little exercise for you. If you had to cast Mr. Ripley now, fill those four parts. Okay. And I can’t use, um, Andrew Scott or, uh…

 

Louis Virtel Dakota Fanning. God, who would I play in that? Let’s see. Well, you know what? I do have to say I stan Mr. Glenn Powell. Okay. In what role?

 

Kyle Buchanan Could he be the Jude Law?

 

Louis Virtel Um, yes, okay, I think he’s dupable.

 

Kyle Buchanan Is it taking place?

 

Louis Virtel Excuse me, excuse me. It has to be Mr. Jacob Elordi, who I think has that kind of Lawrence Olivier Gregory Peck quality, like of yore that I would want in that movie. I was just, I was reading the reviews of Frankenstein and I had to say, I felt like Billy Crystal because baby, that’s my giant.

 

Kyle Buchanan Okay. Jacob Elordi doing Talents and Mr. Ripley. I think a Google alert for Luca Guarnino just went off. He’s like, am I making this? Is this one of my 55 projects? One of my 55 projects.

 

Louis Virtel Did I sign off on this in like 2018 or something? So he would have to be involved. It’s more the women that concern me in this regard. Cause who’s bringing, like I don’t want Sidney Sweeney in it. You know, I need somebody who brings that elevated sense of like maybe still Cate Blanchett, who knows.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, but it’s hard, right? Because even now, as we’re describing these people, whether it’s Jacob Elordi or whoever, I think what we’re really talking about is how glamorous they look on a red carpet or these other things. We’re not talking about Matt Damon or Gwyneth Paltrow or Jude Law looking hot and giving movie star in other movies. So it felt like an Avengers level team up to get them all doing that in one movie. And I feel like… Nowadays, that’s a little bit too diffuse, and I’m not blaming Yorgos, I’m not blaming Emma for it, but it just is the state of things.

 

Louis Virtel I almost want actually just a proper actress girl to be involved. I know Mia Goth isn’t this vibe, but I know she would bring something.

 

Kyle Buchanan I’d be intrigued. Maybe she could be the Cape Land Shack.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, precisely, precisely.

 

Kyle Buchanan But, you know, I mean, yes, it doesn’t all have to be all glamor. And like, I appreciate the big swing of Emma Stone shaving her head on camera. Have you ever shaved your head?

 

Louis Virtel No, I… I don’t, I can’t wear hats.

 

Kyle Buchanan I think it would work.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know. I mean, I envy what Myles Heiser can accomplish on the television series Boots, but I don’t believe that’s for me.

 

Kyle Buchanan I definitely was, I was watching Boots this past week and thinking to myself, could I pull that off if I needed to? Because it definitely gives you, you know, it runs the gamut of maybe this person shouldn’t have and wow, actually that works for him.

 

Louis Virtel I would say the most traumatizing thing about the pandemic for me was seeing people try to have shaved heads and boy were they wrong. Oh, I grew my hair out. I’m like, I might as well be grizzly man now. Yeah, no.

 

Kyle Buchanan The amount of like, not everybody looks like Sinead under there. You know what I mean? No, but a woman shaving her head, it can look gorgeous. Oh, please. And I think Emma Stone does look fantastic in her. Oh, she looks amazing. She looks amazing, now.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve already brought up Yorgos and Emma. Do you have favorite director-star collaborations from any time in movie history?

 

Kyle Buchanan I think one, and it kind of operates in the same way as Jorgos and Emma in a way, is David Lynch and Kyle McLaughlin. I’m not just saying this. Who we just had on the show. I’m not just saying this. Who we just had on the show, yes.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, May Diane Ladd, Rust, who we just lost this week. If you haven’t seen her in Wild at Heart, that is one of the kookiest Oscar nominated performances all time. You will not believe what she does in this movie and that they hired her to do it and she’s so good at it. Anyway, go ahead.

 

Kyle Buchanan But I think what I liked about that union is you’re taking somebody who could be seen one way. It’s almost impossible not to see Kyle McLaughlin, especially when he was younger, as this just sort of like square jawed, all Americana guy who could be perceived in a very bland way. And David Lynch was like, let’s use that and subvert it and make it interesting. Like, let’s find out what’s beneath that and let’s throw all sorts of stuff onto him. And I think that’s where the most pleasurable unions lie, to wear. It could be somebody who feels very mainstream or just one thing, and you get a director who’s willing to fuck with it a little bit.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I think my favorite of all time is Mel Brooks and Madeline Kahn. Now this is a particular case where Madeline Kahn was never really the star of these movies, but what he did was pick a featured moment for her every time. So she had the big Marlena Dietrich moment in Blazing Saddles. She has a number of unbelievable one-liners in Young Frankenstein. She’s even the only really good part of History of the World part one, just knowing that she would kill it, bring her kind of like upper crusty, but slowly losing my mind daffiness. To each of these parts. And I just find her underrated in general. You ever seen Judy Berlin starring Edie Falco from the late 90s? Yes, she’s also in the movie Nixon, which people forget about. Playing like a sort of bitchy cousin of the Nixon’s or something. Yeah, I forgot, related somehow.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, no, Madeline Kahn, a great comic energy that I actually do believe that though she came to it very authentically that Emma Stone could give if called upon.

 

Louis Virtel And I think she would be thrilled to hear that compliment. That’s somebody who definitely knows about Madeline. Remember when she was trying to get on Jeopardy, Emma Stone? Emma Stone. Yeah, she was obsessed with the show. She’s like, I don’t want to be on Celebrity Jeopard, I want to on Regular Jeopard. And lo and behold, it hasn’t happened yet. Is she constantly?

 

Kyle Buchanan Applying to get onto.

 

Louis Virtel She says she applies once a year.

 

Kyle Buchanan Louis, you know the Jeopardy talent bass awfully well. How would they feel about an interloper like Emma Stone coming in?

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, our friend, Guy Branum was on recently. So, I mean, like, I think they, if you can play the game, the thing about Jeopardy is, it doesn’t matter if you’re a star. The star is the gameplay and the dynamics. This is what I’m always telling my viewers to camera when they shut off the podcast. Get back to the topic. Another combination of actor and director I wanna talk about, historical. Alfred Hitchcock and Jimmy Stewart. Okay. You know, honestly, I think that’s in the same vein as what I was describing with Lynch and McLaughlin. Finding a quality in him that didn’t really exist in other movies. He did play a villain in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. And not that he’s a villain in Hitchcock movies, but that he could find even a patina of darkness on this guy who again, should be on U.S. Currency. It just was like immediately, he was Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. And from then on, we believed he was just this legend and this utter mensch at all times. So that he would get lost in these tales of intrigue and sexual seduction or murder. He’s the star of my favorite movie, Rear Window. That’s a collaboration I’m really thankful for because they both brought things out of each other that they wouldn’t have otherwise.

 

Kyle Buchanan I recently rewatched Rope with Friends because we’re like, we’re gay guys, we need to know how to commit crimes. Yes. And get away with them. For a little while.

 

Louis Virtel I love John Dahl in that movie.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, but so Jimmy Stewart comes into that movie and he’s giving a very different energy than he typically does that is like a little threatening, a little dystopic, and a little homoerotic. And he’s not going to do that for anybody except Hitchcock. Precisely. And who’s going to ask him to?

 

Louis Virtel In the original writing of it, whatever it’s based on, that character was supposed to be gay.

 

Kyle Buchanan I think he kind of still reads that.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, because I would say if Jimmy Stewart knew about that I would be shocked. I can’t imagine giving the news to Jimmy

 

Kyle Buchanan You’re like, what, I’m a queen? Well, sometimes you can get away with that, you know? Sometimes just a little bit of context can make even the straightest person seem a little zesty.

 

Louis Virtel I want to say that Farley Granger in that movie, so gorgeous. I don’t know that he is half the actor of John Dahl and the fact that he then got to go on to Strangers on a Train and then we never heard from John Dall again, I’m a little salty.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, but what Farley Granger does so well is to look handsome and worried. And that’s half the battle in a Hitchcock movie.

 

Louis Virtel Nobody has gulped more. He’s like on camera being like, the body’s over there.

 

Kyle Buchanan What a neck to gulp with that.

 

Louis Virtel Quite, quite. Anyway, so yeah, begonia, it’s sort of like in the C plus, B minus range for me.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, I don’t know. It’s one of those things where I’m glad I don’t have to give a letter grade, because when you’re like, I don’t now some I liked, some I didn’t, it’s just not a not a totally satisfying meal for me. I’m still curious to see if they do continue this partnership, what they’re going to come up with. But, you know, even as we so often do, when we’re forecasting, what are the Oscar chances for this movie? I think what we’re also talking about is what’s the afterlife for this? Or is this going to be a movie 10 years from now where people were like, wasn’t there a movie where Emma Stone had to shave her head?

 

Louis Virtel Precisely. Okay, and last question.

 

Kyle Buchanan What’s the best Emma Stone performance of all time? Oh my God. Well, I immediately did leap to SNL. Oh, okay, yes. I think she’s so good in the actress. I think, she’s good in Wells for Boys. Oh yes, very funny. You can tell how much I am, I am and the people are yearning for a full comic Emma Stone turn that I had to go to those places. The correct answer was Battle of the Sexes and not enough people saw it. Oh, shit.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, she’s so good in that. So good. And you would never cast her in that, and yet she was.

 

Kyle Buchanan That’s one of those ones where I’m like yeah straight people can play gay like as long as they do it really well

 

Louis Virtel No, again, when we had that movie Conclave, which starred the three straight people who can always play gay, John Lithgow, Ray Fiennes, and Stanley Tucci, I was like, and here they are queening out. I love it.

 

Kyle Buchanan I love it. All actors are a little bit bi-ish anyway, so I’m fine with that. Whenever people complain about, oh, these straight men are playing gay like Josh O’Connor or whatever, I’m like, you know, look, gay actors should have equitable access to those roles, but I do think that straight men should be allowed to play gay if they’re good at it and if it’s hotter. Right.

 

Louis Virtel Precisely. I think the thing people are resentful of, I always say this, is that playing gay is often easy. And by the way, you can just throw on a gay voice, and I’m sorry, you do sound like a gay guy. Like, if your little brother disparagingly puts on a queeny voice, I’m like, oh yeah, I know that.

 

Kyle Buchanan Two good examples of exactly that this year, the cinematic year, Dylan O’Brien and Twinliss. Loved him in that movie. And Ethan Hawke in Blue Moon.

 

Louis Virtel Oh my god, which is by the way, I saw that and that’s a movie finally for Old Bitter Queens. It has been too long.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, great movies, both of them, and great performances. And I think, you know, like truly those are straight men who are like, God, it’s really fun to be a bitch. Yes. And you know what? It is also.

 

Louis Virtel So, Andrew Scott in that movie is phenomenal. Really wonderful. Playing Richard Rodgers. Yes. So, if you won an Oscar for that, that’d be an Oscar playing an EGOT winner. Just get the stats right. We’ll be right back with more Keep It After This, but before that, some quick housekeeping.

 

Louis Virtel [AD].

 

Louis Virtel Rob Didrick’s clip show Ridiculousness has been canceled at MTV. I don’t know what other programming they have.

 

Kyle Buchanan Ha ha ha!

 

Louis Virtel One could argue that the show went on too long, which got me and Kyle thinking about what other entertainment institutions need to be stopped, several of which we will now name. Kyle, the floor is yours.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, there are a couple of streaks that I would like to see come to an end culturally. And one of them feels very germane. This is award season. I’m tired of all the best actor winners being above 30. Yes, it’s very weird.

 

Louis Virtel Why this is the case.

 

Kyle Buchanan We just associate esteem with people who’ve been around. It’s a wild thing because, as people might have learned last season, the only guy who’s ever won Best Actor under 30 was Adrian Brody for The Pianist, and no other man has since, which is absurd because so many women under 30 win Best Actress, they almost had it on lock for a long time. Yes. You know, old Academy voters, they love an ingenue. But they wanna see a little mileage on their men. And I bring this up this year because I’ve seen Marty Supreme with Timothee Chalamet. Likewise, I’ve also seen it. Yes, and you know, he’s pretty great in this. This is a extremely compelling performance that’s immediately gonna become sort of one of his iconic roles. And I think this is as win competitive as they will ever let a Twink be. And so I’m curious to see, can he actually get some traction? Or are they gonna basically do what they did to Leo and wait till he thickens up? Well, I feel like this is why Timothy.

 

Louis Virtel Hutton ran in supporting for ordinary people, twink phobia.

 

Kyle Buchanan How many days since an ordinary people reference?

 

Louis Virtel I need to keep the people awake and alert. When Mary Tyler Moore wears beige and is upset, you should know. No, but you’re right. It’s really puzzling to me. And of course, the scale tips the other way for women, where I remember a couple of years ago when there was some discussion about Michelle Pfeiffer in the movie French Exit. If she had won Best Actress for that, she would have been the third oldest winner in the category ever.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, I remember once I was profiling Jennifer Lawrence and she just looks back on when she won the Oscar for Silver Linings Playbook and she’s like, I don’t know, did I deserve it? Like, maybe I campaigned too hard, maybe like, you know, Emanuel Riva was going to get it. And I’m like, they were never going to give it to Emanuel over a talented, beautiful new star under 30. I want to say that she was…

 

Louis Virtel Giving you that conversation in code. What she actually meant was, why didn’t Isabel Hupeira win over Emma Stone for? Emma Stone was in La La Land and she was in Elle. Whereas I feel like, at least it was Silver Linings playbook, that was like a huge hit. You know, it was a star-making turn for her, even though we did have her in Winter’s Bone before.

 

Kyle Buchanan She’s great in that movie and I you know again Jennifer Lawrence in her 20s was playing for David O Russell characters Who kind of squarely needed to be in their 30s, but she was so good at it that you didn’t care Whereas so much of the time these days We don’t have the young male movie stars who can play characters in their 20s It’s wild because Hollywood is ostensibly making so many movies that are aimed at people men, young men, in their 20s, Marvel movies. Even Marvel superheroes don’t cast men in their twenties. So, it does feel like though Hollywood is geared up to give guys in their twenty so much, they’re so reluctant to actually canonize young male stars. And here’s a prime opportunity with Timothy. Let’s see if they take it. Well, also.

 

Louis Virtel So it finally took until he won the SAG award for a complete unknown to give the speech where he said, I’m serious about being the best or whatever. But because I think that’s always been the real X factor and mystique about Timothy Chalamet is he was this extremely young, talented person but also serious, you know, it wasn’t about I’m here to pal around, I’m hear to feel and look famous or whatever, even though he does date only the daughters of extremely famous people, look it up. But I think that’s what we’re lacking. You mentioned Josh O’Connor, but even he’s not that young, I don’t think.

 

Kyle Buchanan No, he’s in his thirties, squarely in his 30s. Right.

 

Louis Virtel No, so in a British way, you know, where he looks at. Demographically, we don’t have other Timothée Chalamets, so.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah. So I just feel like, you know, if Oscar voters are reluctant to award him because they’re like, well, he hasn’t proven himself yet. It’s like, hasn’t he? He’s had plenty of number one movies. He is very serious about this. And they don’t ask that of young women. Yes. You know, we have Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence who get Oscars somewhat early into their careers and follow through on that promise. Sometimes you get a Brie Larson who becomes like a YouTube streamer. But I, but I think we can safely say to

 

Louis Virtel He’s here to stay. Yes, definitely. So I really did enjoy him in Marty Sapri. He’s good enough. I would say it’s a movie that’s low on themes. Like it’s just like an entertaining romp that goes a million different directions. But I kind of liked all the directions it went in, including bringing back Gwyneth. That’s important to me too. I feel like she needs one more scene for a nomination. I don’t think she’s going to get in.

 

Kyle Buchanan You know how I feel about this. I think if they just like the scenes you do have, you can get in Isabella Rossellini style. When she could see that.

 

Louis Virtel You know this is a sensitive topic.

 

Kyle Buchanan When she curtsied and the audience clapped, I’m like, that’s all.

 

Louis Virtel All you need, baby. Oh my God, I’m still not over it. Still not over. Okay, a streak I’m looking to end. This is sort of a haphazard streak, but I was just thinking about this. I was like, I wonder if this actually is, I looked it up. Over the past 15 years, with the exception of Justin Timberlake’s The 2020 Experience and The Greatest Showman Soundtrack, the highest selling album every single year has been either Adele or Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift has not had an album not be the highest-selling album of the year since she released Red. So I mean, like that even includes like Lover, which people consider like her slump. No, that was the biggest selling album of that year. I am not reeling against her being as popular as she is. I’m just, can’t we like one other person? Can we literally just elevate somebody to the level of being adored? I don’t know what that is. I mean she’s really just, she’s gamified fame in a way no other celebrity has. And I’m including Madonna at this point.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, so what I’m learning from this statistic is that you either have to have, you know, like the Starbucks crowd in a hammer lock as Adele does.

 

Louis Virtel And Norah Jones, you had them once upon a time.

 

Kyle Buchanan Or have as many variants as Kang the Conqueror as Taylor Swift does when she puts out album after album. And you also have to have, in many cases, a devoted stand-base that’s like, we want to make those numbers go up, and we’ll do it any way we need to. Also, you’re right.

 

Louis Virtel A whole vocabulary of we’re huge fans of this person, so we want the numbers, that’s still kind of like new to me. Like, you know, you and I are like 90s oriented people where it’s just like, we love when the obscure thing happens just for us. You know, like that is completely anathema to the Taylor Swift experience.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, so I look in the streaming era. It’s pretty difficult to run those numbers up unless you’re really intentional about it So I don’t know that we’re going to have very much more competition unless somebody just comes out of the gate And it’s like this is what I want and they have the fan base to Marshall for it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah also by the way, when people rail against Taylor Swift for putting out the 25 different versions of this album or whatever, it’s not even fair to say that this woman is a huge part of the music industry. She’s her own music industry, I’m not surprised that she invents her own rules for how many versions of an album that’s sort of getting B grades across the board. Putting out that many versions, I am not mad at it. Her fans want it. It’s is market demand, really.

 

Kyle Buchanan Okay, so what do you think they want more? They want like, you know, a rose gold record variant or they want to see her numbers go up that high.

 

Louis Virtel I think both. Like if I have to spend another $20 on this acoustic version of a song that I’ve already heard 25 different ways, so be it. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Yeah.

 

Kyle Buchanan What other streaks are you concerned about? Can we please free Nicole Kidman from the tyranny of streaming servitude? Yes. You know, there was a very funny thing in the news this past week. Taylor Sheridan, who basically runs Paramount Plus, broke with the studio. He’s going to Universal. And the detail that apparently was the straw that broke the camel’s back is that Paramount Plus picked up a new Nicole Kidman streaming show and didn’t tell him first. And she is on his streaming series, Lioness. You know, he’s got all of the Yellowstone and Landman and there’s just umpteen series about it. So she is, I think, second or with or and on Lioness, which stars Zoe Saldana. So funny to me that Taylor Sheridan was but her that a Nicole streaming series got sold that he has nothing to deal with. Like, baby, this is Nicole Kidman.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Stokers, Nicole Kidman.

 

Kyle Buchanan She goes a million different directions. She asking Nicole Kidman to not sell another streaming series is like asking Louis Vertel to not talk about Jane Fonda. Dang. Asking Louis Virtel to not talk about ordinary people is like asking Nicole Kidman to not appear on literally anything, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, and look dazed and concerned.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Kyle Buchanan You know, like a fish has got to swim.

 

Louis Virtel And also, I mean, I said this when she got divorced from Keith Urban, I hope she made herself feel better by literally walking around an airport bookstore and just buying up the rights to everything in sight.

 

Kyle Buchanan So, I mean, get that bag, but I really did think that Baby Girl reminded her of what she loved about doing indie movies and tourist things like that. And instead, she’s just selling more and more and more of these. And you know, enjoy your gilded handcuffs. But come on, Nicole, like while you can make these movies, go make these movies.

 

Louis Virtel I think a part of it is she really opened my mind when she gave that interview talking about how if she takes the project That means a crew gets to work on it Remember so a TV show is a lot of consistent work for a lot people and I feel like that’s what she’s supporting like She knows she can sort of quote-unquote help the industry by taking long TV shows as opposed to just these indie movies these small things

 

Kyle Buchanan Well, Yorgos Lanthimos has Cruz, too. Yes, you’re right. And you did Killing of a Sacred Deer with him, and you were really good in it. So get back in that mode. I don’t know. And I need to adjust in Oscar season, period. We may.

 

Louis Virtel People like her as part of the conversation.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yes, and I’m not naive to the fact that you know that there is more work in television and streaming and that you know, especially if you are a woman over 40 or 50, you know They’re not going to be beating down your door for for a lot of leading roles, but that you can get them on television Still it’s like concerning for me that you have people like Leslie Manville and Laurie Metcalf becoming Ryan Murphy regulars Yes, an in that way to like on monster. I don’t need to see Leslie Manville doing that Do you remember when Leslie Manville was?

 

Louis Virtel Amy Winehouse’s mom.

 

Kyle Buchanan Well, look, reader, I screamed. And that may be proof that like, you just gotta take it where you can get it, you know? That not everybody is in a position to quibble or say, I’d rather not do that one. I’m holding out for this one. But Nicole Kidman is, so come on, Nicole. Now I’m thinking about Mrs. Harris goes to Paris.

 

Louis Virtel Sorry, you’ve lost me when isn’t that the case now? I have to bring up the definitive entertainment streak maybe of all time at this point, which is Diane Warren Wow, yes now if you’re familiar with the songwriter Diane Warren first of all I am impatient about this the greatest Diane Warren song of all-time is I get weak by Belinda Carlisle. Okay

 

Kyle Buchanan We’re just going to start there. But some of her more famous songs include…

 

Louis Virtel Oh, well, How Do I Live by Lianne Rhimes. I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing. From Aerosmith. There You’ll Be from Pearl Harbor as sung by the ravishing Faith Hill.

 

Kyle Buchanan And what’s the

 

Louis Virtel song that she wrote? Nothing’s gonna stop us now.

 

Kyle Buchanan So she wrote a lot of really big hits that often appeared in movies and has been nominated for countless Oscars. Do you know how many?

 

Louis Virtel 19 now? I’m sorry, I should know that off the top of my head is no, it’s maybe it’s maybe it like 17 or something. I’ll look it up.

 

Kyle Buchanan It’s a really, truly crazy losing streak where she is good enough and also knows enough people to get nominated almost literally every year for best original song. Like you’ve got to hold a placeholder for her, but never win. Here’s the thing, not only is she…

 

Louis Virtel Never won, but she gets nominated every year. I believe she has been nominated every year for the best original song Oscar since 2017. Yeah. And there’s no other streak like that at the Oscars. None. Like a consecutive nomination streak. I’m telling you, John Williams is like, what the fuck?

 

Kyle Buchanan Now, in some ways, this is very funny to me. You know, I’ve met Diane numerous times. She’s very…

 

Louis Virtel She’s very amusing to interview.

 

Kyle Buchanan She’s a very fun interview because part of it is, she wants it and she’s not afraid to tell you. And like some actors are a little bit coy about it, but it’s like you’re doing the whole pole dance. Diane is like, no, I want it. Here are my odds. I’m reading Gold Derby. I think it’s this or that. So I do appreciate that. Her hustle is enormous, immense, never-ending. I do think the Academy was like, what if we give her an honorary Oscar? That will slow her role somewhat. But it didn’t work. You did not assuage her. She’s like, I want a companion, and I know this was not a competitive Oscar. So, psych, I’ll take it. But I’m still going for that competitive Oscar year after.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, of course. She’s been nominated 16 times, by the way. My problem is we need a year where we simply don’t nominate her. I don’t even need her to really win based on the past years of content. If you brought up even the movie titles these songs are from, you would think I was making them up.

 

Kyle Buchanan They used to be really massive stars and like somewhat massive movies. And now the songs she’s getting nominated for are appearing in things like Flamin’ Hot. Yes. And it’s like- Which you don’t need to know that much about Cheetos. I eat the Cheeto, I’m done. You know, Dianne Warren is not contributing an end credit song to Yorgos Lanthimos. No. Or Paul Thomas Anderson anymore. And I do think she could set her sights a little bit higher in that regard. They don’t have to appear in marginal films. She got a song into you know, an actual movie that got nominated for other things, maybe she’d have a fighting chance.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, but I do love her as a personality. I want to establish that. One year when I was working on the Oscars, I passed her backstage and I just said, I love There You’ll Be by Faith Hill. And she was like, I’m about to go perform. I was like are you excited? She goes, I am scared shitless.

 

Kyle Buchanan And I do appreciate that she’s always wearing, like, kind of attention-getting suits to these shows. Sometimes I’m like, I’d swap suits with Diane more. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

 

Louis Virtel Also, it’s just like, you don’t know that many songwriters with like big personalities. It’s like just sort of rare. You know what I mean? Like a lot of people are like kind of Bernie Taupin types who like retire to the backdrop. Yeah, I feel like she’d be actually pretty fun to get in a studio with. Yeah, right. Okay, so those are some of our streaks we’ve been thinking about. Please add your own. This is actually a fascinating topic. I could go on and on about things that need to stop. And in fact, we’re going to get into that very sentiment when we come back with Keep It segment.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Louis Virtel And now it’s time for the sauciest segment of the episode. It’s Keep It.

 

Kyle Buchanan What’s rankling you? Okay. I have to issue my keep it to the friends AI clip that was all over social media this past week. Did you see it, Louis?

 

Louis Virtel No. Nor am I really a friend’s stan, although I love Lisa first, then Courtney, then Jen. That’s exactly how I would expect you to be. And then I guess there’s men on the shows too.

 

Kyle Buchanan Well, do you think you would like Friends more if it was an eldritch horror generated by AI?

 

Louis Virtel You know what?

 

Kyle Buchanan You might be onto something. No, I haven’t seen this. So there was a clip that went viral in all the worst ways this past week because somebody, you know, some tech bro online on X, I guess I have to start calling it that. Still resisting. Was like, this is going to change sitcoms forever. And it’s about a minute long. It’s all these clips that are sort of vaguely like friends, like seen through the lens of David Lynch’s Inland Empire. Like They look sort of like friends, they sound like friends. There’s the laugh track and all of that. There’s like enough copyright avoidance that everybody looks like kind of like a streaky simulation of an actual friend, but nothing they’re saying makes a lot of sense. Limbs appear and disappear at will. Like the friends kind of keep spawning as the clips go on. There’s more than six eventually. Like if you, if it were an actual friends episode. You could title it, the one where people emerge from their own backs. Oh, good Lord.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, I’ve now watched it. I’m sorry to say I feel enriched. It really does shine a spotlight on how much of Friends is emerging with gusto and standing up quickly from a chair. Important sitcom techniques to learn. I didn’t realize that was like 90% of the recipe. I’m not saying it’s good. It’s shocking because it looks like terrible AI and they routinely speak in Simlish. But it is amusing how fast that pizza comes through that doorway.

 

Kyle Buchanan In a perverse way, it is very funny. We were cracking up, I was cracking up because you were cracking out. It’s just like the idea that sitcoms will never be the same. But watching this go viral and watching everybody clown on it kind of codified a lot of what I’ve been thinking about AI, which is like, it’s very scary. Look, I’m not naive. Eventually, this is going to get so good that you could make it look like actual friends. But, you know, it isn’t just that AI was trained on like all old stuff. It’s that the only thing that ever goes viral when it comes to AI is AI that looks like the old stuff we know. You know, there’s this idea that we’re going to use all this shit to make new stuff that is on par with the old stuff, and I don’t see people doing this, you know? Like, that gives me a little bit of faith. I would liken it to, this is an itch, but I’m a Nintendo fanboy. There was a game, Super Mario Maker, where you can make your own Mario levels. And I remember when they announced that, I thought naively to myself. Wow, aren’t they kind of putting themselves out of business? Because if the whole world can make Mario levels, then why would you ever buy a new Mario game? And of course the whole word couldn’t make Mario levels that were as good as what actual expert artists did. The only things that ever went viral is like, look how many fire bars there are on this screen. Look how much this isn’t like a level that you’d ever expect Nintendo to make. And I’m getting that same impression with AI, even this like, you know, this eldritch horror of a friend’s AI. You know, it’s just simulating something that we already have hundreds of actual hours of. Like, don’t we want to, wouldn’t we prefer to, look at that, look at actual human faces instead of things that look like ersatz copies, but shadier and more unnerving.

 

Louis Virtel Well, you just brought up an old trauma, which is when I was an RA in college, you could rent out movies to people at the front desk. And this girl came up and she was looking through the DVDs and of course the DVD booklet we have come on the 2000s. And I was like, Oh, I, you should see this movie. It’s really good. She goes, Oh I only watch things I’ve already seen. That woman was the future because you know, like familiarity is the only thing she was searching for it, which was crazy because in order to be familiar with something, you have to have seen it for the first time at some point. But that loop of, I’m just addicted to what I already know, feels like the most sinister part of the AI experience. You also just reminded me of, do you remember Mario Paint? Of course. What I loved about that was you could compose Mario music on it, same situation. It turns out I was not Ennio Morricone. I did not line up the flowers and the mushrooms enough and come up with like some rad beats, you know, I never equaled the music of the game.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, and, you know, I do think I would like to see, you know, the Hollywood guilds and a lot of leaders in this industry come out more strongly against AI, because, look, we’re going to get to the point maybe even in a couple years where you can put in a couple of commands and spit out an Avengers movie, you know, but add these characters and this person and Hello Kitty, too. And eventually that’s just going to fill the marketplace with such slop. That things that are made with actual artists, whether they’re Avengers movies or not, are going to feel somewhat crowded out and devalued. But boy, boy, looking at this slob, boy is it sloppy.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s really gross, just not even amusing. I’ve seen a lot of fake Price is Right clips with Bob Barker where he’s like racist.

 

Kyle Buchanan Because ultimately that’s what it’s going to be when you can make something that looks photo perfect like Friends, the only things that are really going to go viral from it or that people are going to pay attention to is what if it was Friends but they said the F word in it? Right. You know? Like that’s not anything.

 

Louis Virtel And also, by the way, you can just look at any 90s movie. I’m sure all those actors had to say the F word at some point, I’m not kidding. Look at their filmographies. My Keep It This Week has something to do with an equally sexy person. And in fact, now an officially sexy person, Jonathan Bailey is people’s sexiest man alive. Now I just combed the archives. I believe he is the only queer person to have ever won this accolade to be the number one person of the year.

 

Kyle Buchanan Certainly, openly.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, precisely. Yeah, no, my detective work is not done. And I think this is an amazing choice. I also like it, I think most people have seen Wicked so they’re probably familiar with him, but he’s still a name that I think people have to really learn. Like he’s almost a household name. Like I don’t think everybody saw fellow travelers, for example. So I’m excited for him to catch on even further. My keep it is to the picture that actually landed on the cover. First of all, he’s almost mistakeable for like Orlando Bloom here or something. But secondly, the key to Jonathan Bailey’s mischievous sexuality is his smile. Yes. I feel like that is what is instructive about his sexiness and we’re missing that here. Here he just looks like, you know, some gay guy I know who lives in your part of town. He looks like he’s from Atwater Village or something Oh, well that kind of works.

 

Kyle Buchanan Yeah, yeah, so if you haven’t seen this cover He is in a stream. I guess his shirt is somewhat open. So that’s good Yeah, it’s very serious for sure, but he looks cold and I just don’t think that cold gives sexy I mean like look it’s Jonathan Bailey I’m not mad at it if you like a wet hunk on the cover of a major magazine I implore you to Google the entertainment weekly cover that Jake Gyllenhaal did for the day after tomorrow where Tony Duran shot it I think He is wet and looks fabulous. The people cover shoot for Jonathan Bailey, it’s not bad, it’s just that it’s so close to being like an elevated hot photo shoot. It’s giving gay guy Instagram carousel, this photo shoot He’s holding a dog. He’s holdin’ a dog Yeah, where it’s kind of like Glenn Powell said no, but we did rent a dog, but you know, it good. And I’m. But what I do respect is the choice it’s exactly like you said Louis. He still feels on the come-up, which is rare for people I definitely think people is like, okay. Yes, he’s gay, but women loved him in Bridgerton, which they absolutely did This is somebody who actually has chemistry with just about everybody who could put him with I was reading excerpts from the people interview He’s talking about the ideal first date and I read it and I was like, this is someone who actually goes on dates Yeah, which I don’t always get when people are describing these things

 

Louis Virtel Also just, he has a real like saucy sense of humor too, in a way that I am not used to hearing historically from gay celebrities. Like they would be too nervous to make the kind of jokes he makes. So that’s really cool. And yet also there’s kind of a throwback quality about him. To me, he looks like who’s in the pictures with Cary Grant at his bachelor pad. And then he’s like smiling in the background deviously, knowingly, and we just never know what’s up with that guy. But he has that kind of classic movie star look too.

 

Kyle Buchanan And I love that right as he’s becoming like a pretty famous, you know, leading man, romantic matinee idol, uh, he is willing to be openly silver-templed. Um, not something that we’ve really experienced since Oscar Isaac, where he’s like, I’m going to go gray and it’s going to look hot. And by the way, more power to them, honey. I get this buzzed ever.

 

Louis Virtel You will never see this nothing Clooney ish is coming out of these temples. Oh, yeah

 

Kyle Buchanan Oh yeah, you got that razor out. You’re on your bougonia tip.

 

Louis Virtel Bougonia gets it. Kyle, thank you so much for being here. Tell us what we can look forward to reading.

 

Kyle Buchanan From you in The Times this week. Okay. I believe in a couple days you’re going to read an Ariana Grande profile from me to continue that wicked train of thought. And then a little bit of George Clooney, you might hear me on The Daily soon. If you want a little more podcasting from me and then yeah, but we are in the thick of this award season. So I’m about to just like grab on and and hold on for dear life. It sounds like Ariana is definitely going to get another nomination for this movie. Yeah, I don’t know what I can say except that like, I think she’s terrific in this and all of her best material is in the second one. Certainly as a dramatic actress, she does stuff where I’m like, oh, you’re bona fide.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, she did.

 

Kyle Buchanan Herself proud in the first one, so that’s crazy that she stays at that level. Yes, I think that, you know, with singing popular or being a musical comedy performer, even though she feels like a little bit of a revelation, you might think as, you, know, a pop girl who’s hosted SNL that those things are in her wheelhouse, but she’s got to shoulder dramatic material in the second one. In particular, there’s a scene where John Chu, who directed it, kind of breaks the filmic vocabulary of the movie to hold on in a close-up, Les Mis style. For a really long time, when nothing else in the movie is shot that way, and you can just feel him being on set, watching her do that, and him thinking, I didn’t know she was capable of it, and I want everybody else to feel what I felt.

 

Louis Virtel Mmm. Okay, well, that makes me psyched for it because I was on the fence about the first Wicked movie, but I’m looking forward. I’m look forward. Thank you to the fabulous Kyle for being here.

 

Kyle Buchanan Thanks for having me.

 

Louis Virtel We will see you next week with more Keep It. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Bill McGrath, our associate producer is Kennedy Hill, and our executive producers are Louis Virtel, Ira Madison III, and Kendra James. Our digital team is Delon Villanueva, Claudia Sheng, and Rachel Gaewski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Jerik Centeno. Thank you to David Toles, Kyle Seglin, and Charlotte Landes for production support every week. Our head of production is Matt DeGroot. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.