An Ode to LA Cinema with Robbie Williams | Crooked Media
Support Our Mission: Subscribe to Friends of the Pod Support Our Mission: Subscribe to Friends of the Pod
January 15, 2025
Keep It
An Ode to LA Cinema with Robbie Williams

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss the Los Angeles wildfire disaster tragedy and share their favorite films set in LA, Carrie Underwood performing at Trump’s inauguration, and the new season of The Traitors. Robbie Williams joins Ira to discuss his new film Better Man and translating his life into an unexpected biopic with a simian twist.

Subscribe to Keep It on YouTube to catch full episodes, exclusive content, and other community events. Find us there at YouTube.com/@KeepItPodcast

 

TRANSCRIPT

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Louis Virtel I am a frazzled. Louis Fertile. Back from. I’m going to call it the trenches. By that I mean just Los Angeles. The most treacherous week in my 16 years now, 16 years, literally almost to the day I moved to L.A.. I have never once, like, observed the terrain of L.A. and felt anything but, you know, like I’m at home here. And, you know, it’s just a completely cursed strange new for me feeling here in L.A., even though it seems like we are beta testing every version of the apocalypse in L.A. at some point or another. This past week, it was fire, which was just unreal. It continues to be unreal. As I’m sure you all know. And it’s hard to have anything to say about it because it just feels like we’re not on the other side of it yet.

 

Ira Madison III How does it feel to be Martha Gellhorn for the day?

 

Louis Virtel Wow. I’ve so generally identified with other Nicole Kidman characters. People forget that she played Gellhorn in a TV movie. Who played Hemingway? I don’t even remember it.

 

Ira Madison III Clive Owen.

 

Louis Virtel Clive Owen. Wow. We paired them together.

 

Ira Madison III She just she’s been paired with everybody at this point.

 

Louis Virtel I think I’ve said it before. I think she is the most employed person in the history of show business.

 

Ira Madison III If you were waiting to star opposite Nicole Kidman, stay in line.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s basically everyone now. She’s like the new Kevin Bacon. Time’s ten.

 

Ira Madison III No, it’s nice to hear that you’re doing well and that you escaped from L.A., like Kurt Russell and went to San Diego for a bit. And now you’re back. And I don’t know how is the how does it feel in the city? You know, I feel like I personally not having lived in L.A. for a few years now. It’s whatever you think about the city. Your mind immediately goes, you know, sort of Hollywood and the film industry. And having worked in it, you know, that’s what both of us think about. But I think that this week has really just sort of reminded people that there’s so much more going on in Los Angeles than Hollywood.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Even though it’s this big pseudo disconnected stream of pseudo suburbs in L.A., things like this remind you that you actually do live in a community where we had Nithya Raman here years ago. It was one of those moments where I realized this is a real place. Like real people live here and communicate with each other every day. And it’s not just, you know, this place. We deposit all of our ambitions and hope for the best, like one big, you know, lotto ticket community or something. And so here to get all these updates as specifically from local news in L.A., being really fabulous over the past week as it pertains to the fires and continuing warnings and stuff. It’s just it’s like slightly altered what I think about living here. And there’s there’s a I hate to use the word warmth during a time like this, but there is a warmth to realizing the level of conscience happening in the community.

 

Ira Madison III And local news, but not the L.A. Times. Let’s just point that out.

 

Louis Virtel No, I would describe myself as pissed at them.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I would describe it as warmth as well. You know, you can sort of feel it even here on the East Coast. You know, I feel like it’s nice seeing people that I love in Los Angeles sort of helping out in any way that I can. It was devastating to hear a lot of friends who had either lost their homes or their parents lost homes, lost family homes. And I think people in New York, too, are sort of we’re usually like, fuck L.A. here. But a lot of people have been setting up clothing drives. A lot of people have been donating money. I think that a lot of people have just really been sort of fighting any way that they can support Los Angeles. And yeah, it is a city of a bunch of disconnected suburbs that were originally connected by rail and now it’s just sort of connected by. The main thing in Los Angeles is sort of the highway you’re just driving from communities and I think you spend a lot of time in cars alone in that city. And this week, seeing people embrace other people from different communities and driving to Altadena, you know, to donate or sort of help out has been, it seems like a city coming together.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, even reading Sally Field wrote on Instagram that she was born and raised in Altadena then. She now currently lives in the Palisades. So it’s like the entire breadth of her amazing life is have been affected in the past week by all of this. And just to be acquainted with the fact that, yeah, people are born here. That alone is like something that I have to tell myself because it doesn’t feel like that, you know, everybody here is, you know, Lewis Fertel, like traipsing in with their bindle from the suburbs of Chicago and, you know, hoping to ride on the SAGs one day from Allentown. You really should see me if I can bring it.

 

Ira Madison III I see people from Allentown moved to 42nd Street in New York, Chicago and go to L.A..

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah. I don’t know. Yeah. Where else do Chicagoans go? Minnesota. I mean, like, it feels like we don’t have that many options. It’s either one of the coasts of the other.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it has been nice seeing stories of different communities coming out of L.A. first of all, because I feel like a lot of the stories immediately were look at these celebrities who homes burned down. And I’m like, okay. I mean, I feel bad for them, obviously, but these are the people who will be able to either, A, rebuild their homes very quickly or to have the money to just relocate somewhere else while their home is being rebuilt or just completely move somewhere else, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Though I will say, not that I am hoping for this kind of thing for anybody, but in a way it’s sort of like, you know, when when a notable celebrity gets like, a disease people don’t know about. Well, then people remember it. You know what I mean? So it’s like, in a way, like the fact that there are so many faces put to this particular disaster, like cements the moment in time. And I don’t want to say I’m happy about anything that is happening right now. It’s like, now It’s like it’s like when Tom Hanks got Covid, it’s like, now, now something is really activated. Like, I know who that is. It happened to him. And now that means maybe, you know, more people will help or something, you know? So I’m it’s shocking how many people this is affected, like our past guest, Mandy Moore, I believe she just lost her house.

 

Ira Madison III She did.

 

Louis Virtel Among other people like, you know, it happens to not just for friends of us like James Woods, like any any version of a celebrity it can happen to. So that.

 

Ira Madison III That that God.

 

Louis Virtel He is you know, he did film a movie in my hometown called Straight Talk with Dolly Parton. And everybody was extremely excited to meet Dolly Parton and not James Woods. And I want to call that progressive liberal action in my hometown. Thank you so.

 

Ira Madison III Much. Yeah, that is a good reminder that the lens through which we learn about a lot of things in the world in general is through pop culture and it’s through celebrities, for better or worse. You know, so a celebrity. Getting something like Covid. A celebrity losing their home is something that just sort of reminds people who aren’t generally thinking about other people that something has happened. You know, we don’t tend to think about our neighbors all the time. But you might remember that the celebrity lost a home. And so then you might remember that, other people, you know, are affected by this. I mean, I recall maybe our first episode of Keep It, you know, where 1991 where you were talking about Rock Hudson getting Aids. You know, you were just happy that people knew about the disease.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what I screamed. Yes. No, I mean, it’s like I mean, the reason people know the word anorexia is because of Karen Carpenter. People are constantly whether or not they even mean to adding to the Wikipedia file in their head of information about certain celebrities. And so when something like this happens, it’s it’s like meaningful. It affects the brain in a particular way. So it is an unbelievably treacherous time. Again, I’ve lived here so long, I consider myself I mean, I am a Los Angeles resident and that the fact that I feel it’s such an unprecedented time should tell you this is a completely wack moment. So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I think this morning I was already hearing reports of the Grammys are going ahead as a disaster relief effort and they’re obviously canceling all of the parties surrounding the Grammys because it feels insensitive in this moment. And I believe that Jean Smart has been making calls to, you know, sort of cancel awards season, etc.. But I think that someone brought up a very good point. I think it was Marc Malkin on the news, actually, about how a lot of the city isn’t just obviously the celebrities who are a part of Hollywood, but a lot of the city does rely on those celebrities and the industry and their red carpets and everything to pay their bills. And if you’ve lost your home or you’ve had to evacuate, I mean, it’s was a double homicide at this point. You know, if you also don’t have work to go to.

 

Louis Virtel Right. But also, it’s like I don’t really just love characterizing award shows as self-congratulatory. I mean, it’s like it’s just that to me feels shallow. I feel like that’s a perception we’re constantly combating. I think there’s artistic merit to them. And also it’s like, is it really any more or less merited than any sporting event? I’m just saying it feels like it feels like nobody is ever questioning the sanctity of that. And it’s always awards shows where, you know, a woman might be honored. That is considered a vainglorious event.

 

Ira Madison III Also self-congratulatory. Maybe if you have 20 of them at home, you know, but for a divine Joy Randolph like last season, who is getting her first major award and that will lead to, I don’t know, her getting more work. It will also lead towards other black women getting more work. I think awards are very vital.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. No, I mean, and also I’ve decided I am into this Oscar season. I thought it was maybe a season low on prestige, you know, turnout. But after seeing like the Brutalist, after seeing, seeing saying, I think there’s a lot going on here. I’m rooting for Zoe Saldana in the supporting categories. So we have a lot to hash out this season. I think it’s going to be exciting.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, but you still haven’t seen Venom The Last Dance, so you’re really not there yet.

 

Louis Virtel I’m not a real moviegoer. I’m not what you call a cinephile.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of cinephiles, I think that this week is the perfect week to just talk about Los Angeles in general. So for this week, we’re just going to talk about our favorite Los Angeles movies, where Los Angeles is a character.

 

Louis Virtel I, by the way, was shocked not to have an immediate answer to this question. So to hash it out and figure out what the hell we actually want out of an L.A. movie, whether we want it to be real or surreal or what I think will be very helpful to me.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. And then I have a very surreal interview with Robbie Williams to discuss his surreal film, Better Man, which is a biopic of his life starring a CGI monkey.

 

Louis Virtel Now, let me tell you something. I saw this movie, too. I thought it would be doing this interview, and then I couldn’t make it last minute. See this movie? I mean, I am I remained provoked by this film. It was also entertaining and they really make a centerpiece out of the song Rock D.J, which is the definitive Robbie Williams jam ad video.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I would say that for me it’s jarring at first seeing a monkey playing Robbie Williams, but it starts out in his childhood and then moves on to adulthood. So you see this monkey growing older and honestly it got tears out of me and I think like I eventually just started seeing the monkey as a real character.

 

Louis Virtel And also you question like. So why is this a monkey like nobody’s explaining this to you. It just happens on screen. And then as it goes on, the way other monkeys appear in the movie. It’s interesting. It’s interesting. I’m curious what more other people think of it.

 

Ira Madison III And it’s from the director of The Greatest Showman. So you know that like the musical numbers are fun and dazzling and it’s if you love musicals, you will enjoy this.

 

Louis Virtel Do you think that guy also directed Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster walking down the street in Santa Monica? Because, baby, that was staged.

 

Ira Madison III Shout out, by the way, to these two Broadway stars having their stage shoot in Santa Monica.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. That is a borderline a betrayal. I mean, how could they do such a thing?

 

Ira Madison III Which is how, you know, it’s staged because they’ve been fucking living in New York. So wouldn’t you have seen them being papped or something, You know, walking through the city or at a restaurant, etc.? They’ve been keeping this on the low until they were ready to announce, conveniently timed with. Younger appearing on Netflix.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. No, not promo for this. Do you think Debi Mazar is behind this?

 

Ira Madison III This goes all the way to the top. I mean, the top of the hills in Bel Air where Darren Star lives.

 

Louis Virtel Those homes are just massive, as you know.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we I worked there briefly. That is my favorite. I don’t know if I really talked about it on the show, but that was maybe my favorite writers room experience. It was 2021. You know, a lot of the rooms were closed. A lot of people were working on Zoom. And we worked in Darren’s backyard of his Bel Air mansion.

 

Louis Virtel Was this for Uncoupled?

 

Ira Madison III Uncoupled.

 

Louis Virtel Got it. Okay. Yes. Yes, yes. Anyway, Hugh and Sutton, maybe they sang Mary in the library. And when they’re getting down, who knows? 76 trombones in my ass or whatever. Anyway, sorry.

 

Ira Madison III Hugh. Do the boy from Oz. You know how that gets me, Randy.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. He’s a Tony winner, too, anyway. Too many Tonys in that relationship.

 

Ira Madison III Tony Toni Tone?

 

Louis Virtel Yes. It’s. It never rains in Southern California. Except when they’re fuckin anyway. That was my Tony Toni Tone joke. Sorry.

 

Ira Madison III All right, we’re back with more. Keep it.

 

[AD]

 

Louis Virtel Whether you’re experiencing the fires firsthand in L.A. or watching on TV or on your phone, it hurts to see the city in such despair. So to celebrate Los Angeles, the only way we know how they’re obscure references and other trivia. Ira and I put together a curated list of all our favorite movies and TV shows that scream L.A. Now, you may have mentioned TV shows. I just did movies because, as you know, I believe TV is entertainment and movies are art.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, listen, I we’re going to talk about movies in this segment, but I will say that as far as TV shows and a lot of TV shows set in L.A. are usually just cop shows. Right? You know, like I will say that the two that come to mind are one the closer.

 

Louis Virtel Sure, Kyra. I remember we gave her an Emmy at the very last minute for that. That was so unexpected. That’s like one of the few times I’ve ever been shocked at the Emmys.

 

Ira Madison III The thing about The Closer, too, is that her character, Brenda Lee Johnson, moves to L.A. from Atlanta, and so she has no idea how to get around in Los Angeles. And this is pre using like Waze or your smartphone while she’s trying to navigate the city. So she is constantly getting lost in the first season. The clothes are just trying to navigate her way to different places in L.A. So that’s fun. You really get to see the city. Yeah. And I will also say there’s this new show on ABC that I recently got obsessed with called High Potential, starring Kaitlin Olson.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve only seen a little bit of it, but I’m loving it so far.

 

Ira Madison III I love her. I really just turned it on after I watched the Abbott Elementary. It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia Cross Over, which was actually hilarious and reminded me that I have not watched It’s Always Sunny and Forever. And Kaitlin Olson, her new show was just auto playing right after that episode. So thanks, Hulu. And it’s a show that sort of I feel like cop shows in general are the one thing that get into the different communities in Los Angeles that aren’t just Hollywood, you know, because they it has to be sprawling just sort of by nature.

 

Louis Virtel Which reminds me, I feel like my favorite L.A. set TV show and this is kind of cheating because the main house of the show is here. And the show, I believe if you check a piece of mail in one episode says it takes place in California. But gelling those facts together, I’m going to say this is an L.A. set show, The Wonder Years. The original one, Fred Savage, is technically, I believe, an L.A. suburb. And I like that as an L.A. show because one, nothing about it screams like the industry or whatever. It could take place anywhere. And I mean, in America, basically, it looks kind of like it could be Iowa or it could be the Northeast or whatever. And I like that. California can also have a humdrum anywhere in America suburbia vibe in addition to being, you know, the larger than life place we see in movies like La La Land or whatever. I also just want to say in general about The Wonder Years, and I’m sure I’ve said this before, the fact that they added just narration to make this everyday kid’s life the decisions he makes in his life have meaning and import. Made it so touching. This show is so amazingly touching and never had a bad episode. And because half of the show is you’re waiting for them to get through the narration and they’re just standing there in these characters that are standing around while narration occurs. You get these moments that seem actually realer than an actual TV show because people are standing around not saying anything and not furthering a plot. So it feels like you’re getting this slice of life thing. In addition to witty commentary done by Daniel Stern. I remain a Stan of that show, and I feel like more people would like the original if they got to see it. That’s like that was the benefit of watching Nick at night when we were in like middle school, like they played The Wonder Years nonstop.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, speaking of narration, when I think of Los Angeles in film, I really think of film noir immediately. Of course, the first thing that comes to mind, I hear Walter Neff in Double Indemnity.

 

Louis Virtel That’s got to be the last one ends. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Add Noir was really just a genre that I feel like got into the grittier neighborhoods of Los Angeles, you know, the parts that had lower income housing and sort of the outskirts of the city in general.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, when you watch Double Indemnity, as I saw it recently, first of all, you get Barbara Stanwyck giving one of her signature performances. You get Fred MacMurray also giving one of his signature performances and having the most the land turning east of Lantern Jaws. I mean, if Eddie Martin Land, you don’t even compare Step Off. You get a lot of descriptions of actual L.A. geography. And here I believe they’re in the Los Feliz area for a lot of the movie. And. It’s so weird to watch a movie from 1944 and recognize the place you live in. Like New York is a city. Like any movie that looks like a city will kind of look like New York. This looks like the specifics of Los Angeles from the like the hills of that area to when you get down into like the Franklin Avenue, Vermont region. It’s really surprising. It’s surprising that anything kind of holds up from that time and seems recognizable.

 

Ira Madison III Well, to really shoot Los Angeles in a film, too, you sort of have to be someone who kind of loves the city or lives there, because I think that New York, as you said, is immediately recognizable and New York itself is cinematic. You set up a camera anywhere in New York City. It feels like New York City. You can sort of frame it because of the buildings, because, you know, like if you just stand in the street, you can see you could see far, you can see the Empire State Building, etc., Like it feels like New York, even a random street corner in the East Village, it’s going to feel like New York City. You know, a large swath of Los Angeles. I’m sorry, are are ugly. Yeah. You know, and so you really have to specifically know where to shoot in Los Angeles to make it one recognizable as Los Angeles and to make it feel anything like a love letter to the city.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, there are a number of 70s movies that I think really capture L.A. the same way that 70s as the heyday for New York movies. First of all, there’s, of course, Chinatown, which is the esthetic of the 70s, 40s, just in general, and movies as typified by The Godfather, etc.. Fabulous. But my favorite L.A. movie, which is from the 70s, is Shampoo, which stars Warren Beatty as this lothario hairdresser based allegedly on John Peters, the former lover of Barbra Streisand and husband of my girl, Lesley Ann Warren. And he is this you know, he’s messed around with Goldie Hawn. He’s messed around with Julie Christie. He’s messing around with Academy Award winner Lee Grant and her maybe signature role on film. But to me, the best thing about this movie and it takes place around Election Day in 1968, even though the movie was made in 1975, it gets how long it takes in L.A. to get from place to place. You’ll be at a restaurant and then you see the people wait outside the restaurant for a cab. Then they’re in the cab and there’s a scene in the cab. Then they finally get to this party. The passage of time in L.A., as you’re trying to get from one place to another over a single night is inherently epic. And this is one of the few movies that really gets that. And also, you get a sense of glamor in this movie because a lot of it takes place in the hills, too. Another Warren Beatty movie that gets a lot of action out of the hills is Heaven Can Wait. I’m Not a Stan of heaven can wait. I do love the shape of Julie Christie’s hair, of course, but shampoo.

 

Ira Madison III I prefer one of the greatest film posters. I love The Heaven Can Wait film poster.

 

Louis Virtel yeah. I love the shampoo poster with Warren Beatty holding the scissors over Goldie Hawn and Julie Christie. By the way, all of Goldie Hawn 70s movies remain historically so underrated. Now, if you haven’t seen butterflies for free recently, she is fucking hilarious and says something so mean about lesbians.

 

Ira Madison III I should see that movie then because I’m always saying mean things about lesbians. Meaning my sister. Anyway, Warren Beatty. Let’s just say that that was a man. A white man with lips. And we are.

 

Louis Virtel There’s about six of them on together. You’ll notice I am not one of them. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III When you were praising so many of the young leading white men these days, let’s start praising some men with lips. Okay. Warren Beatty was a man. You look at Paul Newman. This is a man, okay? None of the men right now that everyone is fawning over are evoking the heat that Warren Beatty does. I’m just going to say that.

 

Louis Virtel Well, I mean, it’s I mean, I say this appreciatively about Timothee Chalamet, but his lips are yet there are two other clavicles on his body, as you know. I believe he’s like six clavicles all together as his full exoskeleton.

 

Ira Madison III If you want to also talk about films that really get the passage of time in LA, even if there’s sort of a lie about how quick it takes to get places in Los Angeles, you’ve got to mention Clueless.

 

Louis Virtel Oh please. First of all.

 

Ira Madison III Everywere in L.A.. takes 20 minutes? I don’t think so. Maybe, when that movie was made. But L.A. could borrow from New York and add some congestion pricing. Yeah. Then maybe you could get places in 20 minutes.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, like, Clueless. I can’t even pick a favorite L.A. location, first of all. I mean, it also is a toast to mall culture, which I think is like a now lost American problem. But at the time, just the way they walk through the city, I’m just like they add the the the self-absorption and yet flavorful ness of the characters. Obviously Letterboxd is doing the work of the gods by asking all these celebrities what their four favorite movies are. They asked Nicole Kidman recently. She jumped to say, clueless. What a great moment for humanity. And then she said, the piano teacher.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. I also think she’s at the piano.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And the piano. Right. So you’re getting some females that work here.

 

Ira Madison III That bitch is tickling the ivories at home. I know that.

 

Louis Virtel You’re talking about Keith Urban.

 

Ira Madison III I think you said you could come up with a favorite Ellen moment. Please pray for me immediately. The first thing that comes to mind is Cher getting robbed outside the circle of my house. Get off the ground, please. It’s an a liar. That is. That is said of every time I used to drive by that circus liquors. That scene jumped into my brain.

 

Louis Virtel No. I mean, it’s painful how good that movie is. We, of course, had a famous feud, not you and I, on this show, about whether Clueless or Mean Girls was superior. And I feel like it’s those moments. It’s not just the time of Clueless, but the place of it that make it superior.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of one of our famous keep it feuds, you know what movie I’m going to bring up that I love and you hate?

 

Louis Virtel My God. I was going to say the Blues Brothers, but that’s Chicago in a movie I hate a lot. La la Land. I like it well enough.

 

Ira Madison III L.A. Confidential.

 

Louis Virtel It’s not that I hate it. I just don’t love the best supporting actress win. I mean, I do like that. In the movie, the character says you’re the only man who hasn’t compared me to Veronica Lake in two seconds. And then he responds, You look better than Veronica Lake or whatever the line as that is. And also, by the way, I really enjoyed Guy Pearce in that movie, and I also love him in the brutalist movie that I have two problems with. But he is back, baby.

 

Ira Madison III What are the two problems?

 

Louis Virtel Have you seen it yet?

 

Ira Madison III I haven’t seen it yet. We’ll talk about it next week.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Yeah. Put a pin in this. But now L.A. Confidential is the rare movie of. I was watching it once in my apartment. I probably seen that movie four times. And at one point there at the A Street in L.A. and they run across the street literally to where my apartment is. It’s a movie you can watch in L.A. and then it will simply be happening to you. It’s like an immersive experience.

 

Ira Madison III It’s like teen beach movie from Disney. You’re in the movie? Yes. That’s what they were going for. That’s what I think of L.A. movies, too. You always think of the big landmarks, the acts, the architecture. I’m always thinking of, for instance, John Lautner architecture. And it brings to mind The Big Lebowski. Body Double the Wine Falls, Fall in Love.

 

Louis Virtel I’m sure. Yes. Yes. Yes. Do you know what I actually kind of appreciate is when a movie is lower key but still takes place in L.A., like it’s not making hay of, like, the epic ness of the iconography of L.A. This is not in my top L.A. movies, but I appreciate a movie like 500 Days of Summer that like, just is in the City, looks like L.A. and it is a character in the movie, but it’s not what we’re not meant to be, sort of in the thrall of L.A..

 

Ira Madison III 13, for instance.

 

Louis Virtel My God. Great L.A. movie. How many times can I bring up the movie? 13. I want to also shout out my friend Peter Christian, who can quote every line of the movie 13. I literally make him do it at parties. Don’t do the entire movie for me.

 

Ira Madison III Speaking of the 70s, it’s set in the 70s, but it’s a modern films the nice guys.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve never seen it.

 

Ira Madison III Nice guys. It’s a movie that people are constantly begging for a sequel to. Just sort of like the man from Uncle Sam.

 

Louis Virtel Now, back in the country could.

 

Ira Madison III Happen because Armie Hammer is back, baby.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. What is he, like, the most successful podcaster of all time now or whatever? Like when he talked to a girl, just arrived and decided to be the world’s greatest pop star. I’m like, How did this happen? Who made this choice?

 

Ira Madison III AAM you’ll be on keep it next week so we can discuss that with him.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Great that’s so exciting for him. Okay there’s a movie that I actually want to. Categorically eliminate from the consideration of best L.A. movie because while it takes place in L.A.. Has geography in the title. I think it exists in a world. That has nothing to do with real L.A. And you also don’t get a real glimpse at L.A. And my answer is Mulholland Drive. You know, I’ve seen this movie recently. Obviously, it is a one of a kind achievement. Just along the lines of the performances are that David Lynch thing of is this good? And then sometimes they’re really compelling and then awkward on purpose. And then obviously there’s a dream logic to the movie. And what I think is most impressive about the movie is it’s like you can sense the person who’s having these dreams waking up at the end because things are becoming a little bit more coherent and things are starting to feel a little bit more real gelled. It’s just obviously an impressive movie. I don’t think. You get any actual L.A. out of it?

 

Ira Madison III People always bring up Mulholland Drive. But I think the underrated film in his catalog that’s set in L.A. is Los Highway.

 

Louis Virtel Which I haven’t seen in probably 25 years.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s fantastic. I rewatched it when we had Arquette on the show.

 

Louis Virtel How do you feel about Quentin Tarantino’s movies as they pertain to L.A. from Pulp Fiction down to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? Do you think he has a definitive L.A. moment in movies?

 

Ira Madison III Well, you know, I’m a Tarantino. Okay.

 

Louis Virtel You like it stirred and shake. And I didn’t know that.

 

Ira Madison III I am always doing the dance from Pulp Fiction. Okay. Well, actually, that’s how Louis dances.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve got to say, I am white. So that is like a possibility for.

 

Ira Madison III I, I love Tarantino films. You know, I really, really enjoyed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

 

Louis Virtel I do love the L.A. Cafe from Pulp Fiction, though. I mean, like the one you always pass on. I believe Wilshire, is it? That, to me is just a very scenic and one of those things that, like somebody who grew up in L.A., would seek out and put in movies because you, for some reason, don’t see the that commercial district of L.A. in movies ever.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. If we want to talk about a part of L.A. that really doesn’t get put on film that much anymore, but heavily, like in the 90s and early 2000s, you know, I want to talk about South Central Los Angeles. I’m thinking about Friday. I’m thinking about Boyz n the Hood. I’m thinking about Menace to Society. Baby boy like that is a part of L.A. that we really don’t see on film that much anymore. But there was just this explosion of, you know, films from young black filmmakers in the 90s.

 

Louis Virtel I guess Boyz N the Hood would still be the definitive movie from that area, wouldn’t it? I’m trying to think of other words. By the way, Angela Bassett, please.

 

Ira Madison III We will be right back with more about Los Angeles in film.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we’re back.

 

Louis Virtel Another part of L.A. that I never see represented a movie is the gay part of West Hollywood, like what was once called Vaseline Alley lol. If you’ve ever seen the opposite of sex, you’re going to elsewhere. Yeah, precisely. Watch out for the alley’s people. The Opposite of Sex starring Christina Ricci as this very cynical 90s only comedy, which costars Lisa Kudrow. But it’s written by Don Roos, who is married to Dan Bucatinsky. Obviously, they’re all Lisa Kudrow friends. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I worked with Don.

 

Louis Virtel But that is one of the few movies I’ve seen where you’re just straight up in the middle of Santa Monica Boulevard on that side of town feeling like, here’s gay people walking by. Here’s this this gay barista. Here’s that guy walking by in gym shorts. The thing you get out of the birdcage where, like, all these hot people are walking down the street in Miami, and I don’t know that maybe if maybe at that point in time, Miami was exactly like that. To me, this is one of the few movies that, even though it’s just a comedy, also happened to be slice of life for that part of L.A. at that time.

 

Ira Madison III Other genres, films. As I said, I worked with on a couple dozen. He was fantastic. He wrote Single White Female, he wrote.

 

Louis Virtel Which is not.

 

Ira Madison III Boys on the Side.

 

Louis Virtel He wrote that, too? My God.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, he did. And also Bounce.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Somebody had to have ridden it. It can’t just appear itself. Single white female, I think, is best of that genre, by the way. It really, really holds up. I think it’s because you got two really awesome performances at the center of it.

 

Ira Madison III When she walks in with the same haircut. That’s the gag of the century.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, it’s like it’s like a it turns the vertigo scene where they recreate old Madeleine into a much creepier moment. And I think it’s just excellent. And also, of course, we miss Bridget Fonda. Where where is she? Danny Elfman. I want answers.

 

Ira Madison III It’s also from that genre of films where gay writers or gay directors would sort of use certain subcultures to make a film queer. You know, when she goes to the Bdsm bar in it. I feel like whatever things like that would pop up in 90s films, it made the film a little bit more like queer and sexy, and it was something that you could actually put into a film in the 90s without having to put in gay people.

 

Louis Virtel Well, it’s like Party Girl, for example, has like a, like a gay ness to it, even though it’s mainly about her. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III West Hollywood and then Hollywood in general. Sean Baker is having such a moment right now with Nora, but I’d be remiss not to bring up Tangerine.

 

Louis Virtel My God. Do you want to take a trip down Santa Monica Boulevard? You’re in a first of all, you’re going to do it phonetically in this movie. And then secondly, the character’s talking at like 500mph, too. I love the just the happiness of that. But that film.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And I am so sad that we never got more. From Mya Taylor. She should have been a bigger star after that. And she won the Independent Spirit Award for Best supporting Female.

 

Louis Virtel I remember at the time we were like arguing, she should be at these roundtables with these actresses. And now it feels particularly insane that she wasn’t, you know, like like people like that who are like, emerging in that moment should be talking to these veteran actors in front of us. I want to be seeing that.

 

Ira Madison III That should actually be the point of those things. Because when you see someone, you know, like you pair Nicole Kidman and Cate Blanchett, for instance, how have they done that?

 

Louis Virtel Not that I’ve seen. There’s actually not too many photos of those two together now that you mention it. Remember when people are like Nicole Kidman and Kylie Minogue have never been paired together and we assumed, you know, they were out for Australian beef. Yes, Right.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. They’ve got kangaroo.

 

Louis Virtel They’ve got some boomerang, if you will.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, But no, I think that I would actually prefer those if it were younger. Hot actors who like have just had a flashy like a really good role paired with a veteran actor. And it’s it’s like they’re both learning something.

 

Louis Virtel I was going to say, because these veteran actors, they don’t really need to learn anything from each other. I mean, much as it’s fun to see like Demi Moore and Angelina Jolie talk. And they did have some tender moment where they both realized that they’re shy at awards shows or something and they should have greeted each other. Okay. But like, that could have happened off camera, you know what I mean? You know.

 

Ira Madison III In the in the line for the bar at the Golden Globes, that’s when that convo is supposed to happen. We don’t watch it. Right.

 

Louis Virtel Let’s see here, Father of the bride, technically an L.A. movie. There’s got to be some comfort viewing when it comes to L.A. and I think that might be the pinnacle of that.

 

Ira Madison III This might come as an odd comfort movie because it is not a comfort watch at all once you get to the end. But I fucking love watching Boogie Nights.

 

Louis Virtel Sure. Well, also, he is just the master of that part of L.A.. We’re talking now about the Valley Lickers. Pizza is a similarly loving tribute to that part of L.A. Also, I was just thinking about him recently as it pertains to the Brutalist, because Peta makes movies of similar grandeur. But I think he is way more talented than Brady Corby when it comes to bringing in the nuances of characters and turning those into exciting plot points. I would say that the characters in the Brutalist, even though it’s a movie I like, is about kind of a broad types in a way, or it does, it doesn’t really get into the characters, whereas Peeta doesn’t get through a movie unless you discover four weird things about every character.

 

Ira Madison III Brady Corbet is I’ve seen his other works a Brady Corbett is a director who is more, I think, about ideas and sort of like the overall picture of the Brutalist. It’s about, you know, like the architecture. It’s about, you know, immigrants, etc.. And I think that Peter probably just from, you know, growing up in Los Angeles is more in tune with the characters, the weird people that you interact with. I mean, the plots of a lot of his movies are sort of incidental. Like, what is the plot to Boogie Nights? You know, he’s a porn star, etc. But you meet all these interesting people all along the way. Every character in a PTA film could has the potential to be your favorite character.

 

Louis Virtel He also just gets like the every, like, square foot of space in an L.A. locale. Correct. The feeling of what it’s like to be next to this, like, desiccated pool in the valley, the way it feels to be on like a shag carpet in an old apartment, the way it feels to be comforted by this weird Julianne Moore character. And where did she come from and where is she going and why is she feel like she’s about to shatter in front of me? Everything is so palpable. And a PTA movie, namely his L.A. movies.

 

Ira Madison III Inherent Vice underrated.

 

Louis Virtel I saw that when it came out, and I remember not having much of an opinion about it at the time. But I will. I will reinvestigate that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Speaking of another sort of frenetic film that is very tense to watch, but Nightcrawler.

 

Louis Virtel I think that’s one of the definitive L.A. movies because every I mean, in the way that that this movie Carry On that just came out, which is also technically an L.A. movie, makes a set piece of every part of the airport. Like now we’re in the TSA line. Now we’re on the the conveyor belt with all the bags, whatever, every L.A. location. And Nightcrawler is, like vilified, like, now we’re in the hills in this, like we’re peering around this apartment. Now we’re like down for a second and third Street and things are exploding. You know, it has it like many great action movies, it turns every urban location into a potential for fireworks. Obviously, another movie in this case is drive, which is another very loving tribute to L.A.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, carry on. A movie that I really enjoyed. Although I will say still waiting for a movie that captures the feeling of being at LAX.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it was very well. It’s sort of like a nomadland how it went to an Amazon factory, but everything seemed pretty rad there. It was like, it does look like L.A. here, but it’s not the feeling of L.A. acts.

 

Ira Madison III It was giving Bob Hope Airport. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Things were smooth sailing. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Action movie is obviously the Beverly Hills Cop franchise. Lethal Weapon. Die Hard.

 

Louis Virtel No, I mean, I hate to say a Die Hard is just one of the few action movies where also, obviously, you can be enraptured by the actual action occurring. But every character is amazing, too. Like, I love even fucking Bonnie Bedelia in that movie.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And, you know, action movies this week, you don’t really want to bring up disaster movies. No. There are a lot of really good ones, you know, set in L.A. And I think that there’s something about the film industry and the way that they love to destroy Los Angeles in movies, mostly because it’s there. But I do wonder what kind of movies will be coming out of this, you know, situation, this horrible moment in Los Angeles. I wonder how the film industry is going to respond to it. Not well, probably because how did they respond to Covid and how did they respond to the writers strike? Well, some things.

 

Louis Virtel There are also just certain things we end up not making movies about. Like really, there were two 911 movies and we do have that play come from away. But otherwise, from a monumental moment in U.S. history, we have just not even begun to scratch the surface on that. You know.

 

Ira Madison III Why do you keep forgetting September 10th?

 

Louis Virtel I you know, I watch it every day. I get up, I get the coffee I put on September 10th.

 

Ira Madison III I say this as a joke, but legitimately there are people who did just assume that movie is about September 11th, right?

 

Louis Virtel No, I know. Right. I mean, why would you call it September 10th otherwise? Yeah, it does seem sort of crazy. By the way, we already brought up Clueless, of course, Amy Heckerling, I think in just in general is a great L.A. artist. Fast Times at Ridgemont High has in addition to three Best Actor Oscar winners in it. Can you name all three?

 

Ira Madison III Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Yeah, it is. Actually, I actually know I can’t. You know, I’ve never seen that movie.

 

Louis Virtel It is. Forest Whitaker is Nicolas Cage and Sean Penn, in addition to many other people, including Phoebe Cates, who I guess we just don’t put in movies anymore because she’s married to the lovely Kevin Kline.

 

Ira Madison III Well, you know, I only recently watched Dazed and Confused. So I feel like I’m missing.

 

Louis Virtel What was your take on that? What was your take on Dazed and Confused?

 

Ira Madison III Dazed and Confused was more of a movie that I feel like I respect it than I enjoyed it. It’s Linklater sort of has that PTA quality of every character in it has the potential to be your favorite character. It felt very much like he was describing shit that had happened to him in life. It felt realistic. A lot of the funny moments were incredibly funny, but as a movie it felt kind of overlong to me and just sort of was a meandering way. But I can understand that if it was from the time period when you grew up or you’d seen it when it first came out, that it would be a movie that just feels comforting to you and you would rewatch it all the time.

 

Louis Virtel I guess before we move on, one, I will bring up and this is not a movie that I was obsessed with, but as an L.A. entertainment journalist, going to like junkets and interviewing people and just the sense of sort of like cynical ennui you encounter when talking to a celebrity who’s done 77 interviews in a row. Sofia Coppola’s somewhere captured something. It’s Stephen Dorff. Elle Fanning And there are father and daughter, and they’re just so many scenes of like being bored in L.A. that can only come from that level of a nut ball baby. You know what I’m saying?

 

Ira Madison III I’m a somewhere apologist. I really do. Yeah, I really do enjoy that film. I love the ennui of a Sofia Coppola thing, but she just shows up at the set and she’s like, What are we going to do today? Yeah, right on the camera.

 

Louis Virtel And she’s not going to amp it up one degree higher than it needs to be. I mean, maybe Bling Ring was sort of a version of that, but for the most part, she really is keying into people who are just kind of downtrodden and sleepy. I let it. And Kirsten Dunst.

 

Ira Madison III Well, you brought up Sofia Coppola. I think that I want to end this conversation by bringing up one of my favorite directors, Michael Mann, who I think does Los Angeles gorgeously. Obviously, there’s heat, but one of my favorite films from him is Collateral.

 

Louis Virtel Jamie Foxx had the world’s greatest year that year with Ray and Collateral.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, And also, just my favorite actor, Tom Cruise, is in that movie. And that is people always bring up Magnolia, which they should because that’s a fucking fantastic role from Tom. But his turn in collateral is. It’s. It’s intense. It’s scary. It’s harrowing. I think that is also one of his best performances.

 

Louis Virtel I will absolutely rewatch that. I don’t remember a thing about that movie.

 

Ira Madison III And the ending I think is just sort of like it’s beautiful and it feels very Los Angeles.

 

Louis Virtel Well, that was a whole lot of L.A. I’m actually sort of impressed with us. I didn’t realize there was so much L.A. on film, frankly. We didn’t even really get into La La Land, and they filmed the whole thing on the highway. How disrespectful of of us.

 

Ira Madison III Disrupting people’s commutes.

 

Louis Virtel Right. No. And also, by the way, we made Rosemarie DeWitt, Ryan Gosling’s sister, and said nothing of it. We gave her two lines. It made no sense.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, and we didn’t even talk about his other film, The Beginning of Hollywood itself. Babylon.

 

Louis Virtel Well, you know, I defend Babylon, but I think it’s a condition. I’m taking pills to curb this. But I do defend Babylon.

 

Ira Madison III I loved Babylon until that Coca-Cola ad at the end of the movie.

 

Louis Virtel My God. When they were like, did you know that this movie is like Singin in the Rain? And I said, yes, I was paying attention.

 

Ira Madison III A better montage at the end of a film comes in Nickel Boys, by the way, which maybe just says, if you’re doing montages in films, get a documentary filmmaker to do it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. My God. Aunjanue Ellis Taylor is so good in that movie. That scene where she hugs the guy who’s not her son. What a lovely scene.

 

Ira Madison III I would also suggest that it’s available on YouTube to rent if you want to watch a long documentary about film in LA, it’s this film called Los Angeles Plays Itself, and it is a documentary that is completely just made of clips from Los Angeles films, and it gets into Los Angeles as a character. It gets into the architecture in Los Angeles. I think it’s really great. The only downside is that the narrator is maybe somebody else should have done it.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. All right.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So if you can get past that fantastic documentary, constructive criticism. That’s lovely. Where was Michelle Williams?

 

Louis Virtel Right. My God. After she did the Britney thing, you would think that would be her new life. She’s like our David Attenborough.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, I have a conversation with Robbie Williams about his new film, A Better Man. And then after that, Louis rejoins me for Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel [AD]

 

Ira Madison III From his time as a boy band leader in the UK group Take That to an incredible solo career marked by hits like Angels and she’s the one for this week’s guests, has sealed his legacy as British pop royalty. His career is so storied, in fact, it inspired Better man Michael Gracie’s new musical biopic with a simian twist. Here to discuss the film and his life that inspired it, Please welcome to Keep It, Robbie Williams.

 

Robbie Williams Preach. Thank you for that intro. And I must say, I deserve it.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I do have a quibble. Before we get into all of it. Let’s go American. And our big song of yours is Millennium. And it’s nowhere to be found in the movie.

 

Robbie Williams It really is. And is it? It most of is the thing, right? So people quite often in interviews ask me, Hey, you must be bored or don’t like one of your songs. What song is that? And then I say Millennium, because that’s true. And then they go, And then they look at me almost perplexed and angry. I But a you asked the question and B, if I have said a song that you’d agreed with me about and just nodded. How would that make me feel? Like Yeah. You agree that one’s crap, do you? Anyway, Millennium had no place.

 

Ira Madison III By the way. I’m like, I’m a Donna fan, so I know that she, like, she never play songs that we want to hear.

 

Robbie Williams What does she not like?

 

Ira Madison III Are she like for the longest time? I think once the frozen like world tour started, she didn’t play any of our earlier stuff at all.

 

Robbie Williams And and you know, she’s completely wrong because as a fan all of the most of her stuff actually throughout her career is stellar. But especially the early stuff that she probably doesn’t like because I love that stuff.

 

Ira Madison III I’m sorry you were saying about Millennium.

 

Robbie Williams Yeah, Millennium. I was just saying I don’t like it. That’s why it’s not in the movie.

 

Ira Madison III Of speaking of the movie, I really did enjoy this quite a bit. And I want to know, I guess you know how you came to meet with Michael Gracey and come up with the idea of the film. I know that you said you know many times that, you know, you feel like a monkey when you perform. And so he sort of went with that idea. But how did this all come together?

 

Robbie Williams First of all, can I put Yoko on a poster? I really enjoyed this quite a bit.

 

Ira Madison III I think that is summer. Yeah.

 

Robbie Williams So I met Michael through his lawyer. His lawyer is the dad of my wife’s childhood best friend. That’s how we met. And we became friends at a party. And then one day Michael phoned me up and said, I need to come and ask a favor. And he came around to my house and we sat down and he said, Look, I’m doing this film called The Greatest Showman. And instantly I thought, he’s going to ask me to be the lead in it because I am a showman. And he played me songs and he said, Look out, because here I come. And I’m like, That’s amazing. This is me, all of them. And I’m like, Yes, yes. Take, take, take. Sign me up. Of course I’ll do this. Then you show me the storyboards and show me the costumes. And I got more excited and more excited and I was just like, call this. Ask me the question, where do I sign? I’m in. And he said, And now here’s the question. Here’s the favor that I want you to do. And I’m like, Anything he said, will you get hold of Hugh Jackman? And convinced him to be the lead in the movie? Crest fallen. I think that should be my or Biograph. My autobiography, Tie or Crestfallen or Born to Crabs.

 

Ira Madison III So you met that way and then you came up with the idea for basically. How was the back and forth on this film? I guess you’re telling him stories about your life.

 

Robbie Williams I told him stories about my life for 20 hours over a matter of months, and then the back and forth stopped. And Michael Gracey, the genius director, went off and made this movie. I had no notes. I didn’t even know I could have notes, to be honest with you. I’m such a really good English polite people were this good. Thank you for having served as it happens. You know, this film is touching people on such a profound level that I’m very lucky and smart in one way to have no notes and get out of its way and my way.

 

Ira Madison III You know, I think for a lot of people, when they make a biopic, especially people who are still alive, for them, there’s always the concern that it’s not going to be very truthful. You know, it’s not going to show them completely as a three dimensional character. Were there any stories that you were afraid to tell him? Were there any things that you saw in the film that sort of it was hard to rewatch even with a monkey playing you?

 

Robbie Williams Yeah, a lot of it was hard to rewatch because it’s the greatest hits of my trauma and grief for the Tok generation. You know, and as a. That has an effect. That being said, I overshare. It’s what I do professionally. It’s also what I did is how I socialize. I’m. I’m scared of small talk. It’s like being in a headlock. And so I can’t I don’t want to talk about the weather. I don’t want to talk about things that don’t matter. I want to talk about things that really matter to you and to me. And that’s my trauma. And your trauma. And I want to bond with you. I don’t want to have a surface relationship with anybody, including myself and the world. I just said something profound.

 

Ira Madison III A little bit.

 

Robbie Williams Meh. I’m pleased myself.

 

Ira Madison III So I was watching your Graham Norton appearance, and I came to the conclusion that, yes, you are a great storyteller. And I was wondering when you first noticed this ability about yourself. You know, because writing it took me a while to realize that you loved your lyrics. But what about by telling stories?

 

Robbie Williams I still don’t, actually. It comes from being on chat shows and being so nervous and terrified that the when it came to promoting albums, I realized that I be going on chat shows and stuff that I actually once went and checked myself in to a tropical disease hospital, thinking I’d contracted something by recently been in Mexico and Sri Lanka. And what it was was actually anxiety about having to talk about myself on TV. So I researched myself and figured out a plan of what I was going to say and how I was going to say it. And then it went so well. And people tell me or have spoken about me as a really good chat show guest that is a good raconteur and it all comes from being terrified. But people have I’m I’m saying this like it’s my knowledge. People have pointed this out to me, so I understand this to be true. And when people tell you a nice thing about yourself, it gives you the impetus to grow on that and expand on that. So thank you to the people that noticed.

 

Ira Madison III Was it a thing that you really noticed from early being on talk shows or was it something that you noticed also earlier in your life? You know, talking to people, I mean, because you say you don’t like small talk. Was it something that came out of high school being interacting with fans, etc.?

 

Robbie Williams No, no, no. I know the. How I present myself is unusual. And I know that my raise on the Ted is to entertain with the meager talents that I have. And when I’m doing an interview, I want it to be memorable. When I’m doing an interview, I want to win. I’m also competitive. And I also realize that I’m in an entertainment industry where most people are vanilla and have no personality. So if they’re not going to do it, I might as well. Plus, it also comes from a place of not being very good at the job that I’ve been given. You know, I’m all right. But I’m really good at showing off. I’m better at showing off than I am at melodies and lyrics and writing songs. But, you know, you can’t quantify that. They don’t give awards for showing off.

 

Ira Madison III They do. If you’d gotten cast in Greatest Showman, maybe.

 

Robbie Williams Yeah, maybe. Maybe.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking even of people who have very sort of interesting personalities who are in the film, I was actually shocked to see, you know, a lot of the stuff about Liam Gallagher in the film. And my question, I guess, was, what was your relationship with him like at the time? And also, was Noel also involved and just didn’t want to be in the film? Or was were you actually closer with just Liam?

 

Robbie Williams Liam and Noel are in that scene together.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, but Liam, I feel like only talks the most. And you reference him the most.

 

Robbie Williams Yeah. Which is not my choice, you know? Once again, I’ll go out and let Michael Gracey do his thing. But what was my relationship with him? I was in a lily white pop band that were considered, you know, lily white and clean. And I wasn’t that I wasn’t the music that I was singing and I wasn’t who I was representing myself as. So it felt inauthentic. While what felt authentic to me was people that were had a mistake and breaking the law and rallying against social norms and being unusual and provoking and being controversial for being controversial sake. So I looked up to Oasis straight away and wished that I was in that band doing that. That was my relationship.

 

Ira Madison III Did you ever consider when you were making music and especially when you were going solo post tape that trying to make that type of music?

 

Robbie Williams I did try unsuccessfully. You know, what happens is I open my mouth and my brain and my spirit in pop comes out. I can’t help.

 

Ira Madison III *laughs*

 

Robbie Williams You know, it’s like I’m a I’m a theater musical kid who’s cabaret and jazz hands. And, you know, as much as I wanted to write Karma Police by Radiohead, I wrote Karma Chameleon by Culture Club instead, which is also an incredible song. There’s nothing wrong with that song. It’s beautiful, but it’s not what I set out to do.

 

Ira Madison III And how, I guess, do you find a way to, I guess, reconcile that with yourself? Do you listen to a lot of that music? Still do. Is there still some part of you that wishes that you could write something like that?

 

Robbie Williams Nah, I’m over that. You know, the need and want to be cool is a is a young man’s game and a young man’s want and need. What I need to do now is to facilitate a life and a lifestyle for my family that none of the centuries of Williams before me ever had. And by all means necessary. I will do that. That becomes my M.O.. That becomes my reason that that becomes the most important thing in my life is prolonging this thing. Seeing how far I can take it. But it’s not to be cool. And also, we live in a day and age now where cool doesn’t exist, not in the same way that it did in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, and definitely the 90s. You know, and thank God for and the wankers.

 

Ira Madison III In the film. There’s a moment where I’m sure this is Michael Gracey, you know, coming up with an arc for you. But it talks a bit about making music post take that. And one of the interesting things that, you know, he has your character say is, you know, you were focusing sort of on revenge in a way of proving yourself to Gary, to the band members, to people who doubted you, etc.. I’m interested in what your music sort of. What your method of making music was. Post that after you reconciled with Gary, after you dealt with your sobriety. What was it like that compelled you to make music then?

 

Robbie Williams It was completely about survival and. You know, everything that I do and everything that I have done, every performance that I give and every interview that I do, I do it like my life depends on it because it does. And my life has revolved around self-sabotage and chaos and self-hatred and self-loathing and being loathed by great swathes of the general public. And, you know, they are and have been more of a feel than they will ever know most. I would say 98% of the stuff that I have and I’ve achieved, I’ve achieved because I’ve read and heard those words and I would like to thank them personally for that feel. But also, you know, I haven’t liked myself and I haven’t believed that I can do any of this. So everything that I do is. Is is built on anxiety and is built on a fractured sense of self and a complicated inner life.

 

Ira Madison III I think that was actually one of the things that really made the biopic beautiful to me. You know, it entered your mind in a way that was very relatable for myself as a writer. And also a lot of the stuff with your father in that was very relatable as well. So it did actually touch me quite a bit.

 

Robbie Williams Thank you for.

 

Ira Madison III Putting.

 

Robbie Williams That on. Yeah, it’s unusual. How old are you?

 

Ira Madison III 38.

 

Robbie Williams Okay. So you still in the cusp of coming from the generation before us that were literally from another world? Emotionally and physically. The generation gone before us and the generation before them may have well have been from the dark ages when it comes to to do with anything, to do with the mind and the psyche and the wants and the needs of emotional and sensitive people. So it’s very. Very interesting to me to now live in a time where at the forefront of social discourse is mental health and mental illness. And this film speaks to that, where we were, who we were and who we are now, and what are we going to do about it?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And I don’t know. It’s also watching, you know, a film like this and thinking about, you know, drug use and musicians and how now there’s, you know, so many artists who are one, either sober and very open about it or they are, you know, they speak about using, you know, ketamine or cocaine or other things, you know, casually in ways that don’t seem very, you know, detrimental. You know, they’re not hiding it. It’s not some sort of rock star persona. They’re just sort of doing it. To have fun.

 

Robbie Williams Do they? I mean, what, like do you mean actively doing? Yeah. Is that.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I live in New York.

 

Robbie Williams Okay. So I’m not in of that world and I’m not. I’ll say when it comes to new artists, how they present themselves and what they talk about. But I also think that it’s not unusual. People say, why is it the musicians and why is it that did it? Well. They’re all an entertainers. They’re all sensitive people seeking validation from the outside world because of the complicated lives that they had when they were growing up. So for me, when I did cocaine, because I’ve got ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, and I have social anxiety when I did cocaine, it’s street Adderall. No wonder I loved it. The first time that I could concentrate and converse with people, you know? So there is a sensitivity to the people that are in my line of work that leads it to self-medication. And you’re looking to heal yourself by confessing yourself to the world and wanting to be seen and be heard on such a level that will obviously never fill the hole. Therefore, medicate yourself on drink and drugs.

 

Ira Madison III I have one last thing for you before you go. I’m a fan of your album, Sing When You’re Winning. And I had a question about how the cover of the Frank and Nancy Sinatra song, Something Stupid, came along with Nicole Kidman.

 

Robbie Williams Well, first of all, I love that song. Second of all. Nicole Kidman, thankfully said yes when I asked her. And it was a wonderful moment, you know, a wonderful moment that somebody so statuesque and beautiful and important in the entertainment industry felt the need and want to reciprocate my request with a yes. You know, I’m very grateful. She’s she’s a lovely person and a great moment in my career.

 

Ira Madison III Well, thank you so much for talking with me today.

 

Robbie Williams Thank you for having me. Continued success. You look after yourself.

 

Ira Madison III Thank you. And this might be like a random comment, too, but your wife. I really loved her. And Days of Our Lives. I watched that show with my grandmother. And I still watch it to this day. I have friends on it. So let me.

 

Robbie Williams Let me let me tell you this. Right. Very quickly. She auditioned as an Italian person for two shows. Right. So it was it was she speaks Italian. She went in as an Italian, got the job as an Italian, spoke to the makeup people, the producers, the directors. As an Italian, everybody thought she was an Italian. Then they decided to keep her on the show and elongate her parts. And by that time, she was balls deep into a huge lie that she couldn’t go back on. Three not being on the show. She had to come out as an American from Coldwater Canyon. It was a proper, proper Tootsie style.

 

Ira Madison III Still coming up next.

 

Louis Virtel Keep it Crooked’s Friends at Vote Save America. Action and crooked ideas have set up a disaster relief fund to benefit those impacted by the horrific wildfires here in L.A.. It is super easy for you to make one donation that’s split among incredible charities doing critical work for our neighbors and first responders. The Latino Community Foundation, Los Angeles Regional Food Bank, Los Angeles Fire Department Foundation, United Way of Greater Los Angeles, California Community Foundation, Wildfire Relief Fund.

 

Ira Madison III So thanks to you, we all have raised nearly $100,000 for these great groups so far. Learn more and make a tax deductible donation at Vote Save America dot com slash relief. And we are back for our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Although the other segment was one of my favorite in a while, so we got a lot to live up to.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no, it’s like we were driving through L.A., frankly.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, Well, speaking of driving.

 

Louis Virtel Oh God. Yes

 

Ira Madison III I noticed. I noticed my car had been vandalized in the parking lot, and I was like, who could have done that? Carrie Underwood.

 

Louis Virtel Which reminds me of my Keep it. It’s almost as if I briefed you about this ahead of time. I keep it this week. As to Carrie Underwood, the winner of the fourth season of American Idol. So sorry. Vonn’s all Solomon. She is performing at the Trump inauguration. Now, of course, it doesn’t really blow my mind that Carrie Underwood might have been a Trump voter or at least cool with performing for Trump. Correct me if I’m wrong here. There is absolutely no reason for her to be performing at this ceremony. This is somebody who is now a panelist on American Idol. And I know she’s not making Katy Perry money yet, but she’s probably making $10 million for this season or whatever. So it’s not like a money thing. And I do wonder if the Trumps are like throwing the money at Carrie Underwood. That’s sort of on my mind. But she’s literally performing alongside the Village People and Lee Greenwood. Carrie, can you hear The Fist? Sucks. Use your. Use your amazing pitch to hear that This is so awful. What is wrong with you? Also, I know this from having friends personally who are huge fans of Carrie Underwood. This is somebody with like a serious gay following, too. Why would you jeopardize all of these, like I’ll say, your most ardent fans for this one day where you’re performing, I’m guessing with three doors down who are three doors down from hell.

 

Ira Madison III Also, to go from having a song a few years ago called Love Wins.

 

Louis Virtel God. And does it ever.

 

Ira Madison III It’s a bit taboo to team up with the bitch who wants love to lose the bitch.

 

Louis Virtel She’s performing America the Beautiful too, so it’s like extra cringe. It’s just so ratchet. Again, it’s like it makes me think liberals really needed to band together and vote for fuckin Bo Bice. We really had a chance there and we didn’t take advantage getting.

 

Ira Madison III It’s not shocking, you know. But, you know, I expected her to stay, carry underhanded. I didn’t think she’d be so overt about it. You know, everybody see of when I was doing research on the Bush administration for my book, I recalled that there was a record that Destiny’s Child performed at Bush’s inauguration.

 

Louis Virtel That’s wild. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Right. But I get it. He was the governor of their home state, you know, and it was it was early on in their career. So what are you going to do, turn this down?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. So that would’ve been like 2000, literally.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it was too bad. Yeah. You know, they were survive then.

 

Louis Virtel They had even gotten to that part. Yeah, they were just. They were not even jumping. Jumping. They were. MCI was cutting their phone bill or whatever at that time.

 

Ira Madison III That’s what the press conference and independent woman was about. When we when they said question, the reporters were like, why were you performing at that operation?

 

Louis Virtel Tell me what you think about this being a traitor.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I don’t know. I’m this saddens me, especially because the bar flaming saddles in Hell’s Kitchen, which I love going to on a Sunday sometimes with my Broadway friends because, you know, Mondays are dark on Broadway, so you usually get a phone call. They sure do. I love putting Carrie Underwood on that fucking jukebox, because the majority of the music there is country music, obviously. Truly. You go to the jukebox and try to play Charlie. Zack’s not there.

 

Louis Virtel No. Right, right, right.

 

Ira Madison III But yeah, I love putting on, you know, Cowboy Casanova, which is used to be one of my favorite karaoke songs.

 

Louis Virtel I like the Kara DioGuardi written song Undo It by Carrie Underwood. But it must be said right now, I’ll add this to the Keep it Jesus, Take the Wheel has always sucked. It’s a phrase that caught on. The song is bad.

 

Ira Madison III Unless you get into a car crash and they ask you, What were you doing? What? I let Jesus take the wheel right?

 

Louis Virtel And maybe that holds up in court. I don’t even actually know how the system like she’s from Oklahoma or something, right? Maybe that holds up down there.

 

Ira Madison III Didn’t work for Karen here for the IRA.

 

Louis Virtel What is your. Keep it this way.

 

Ira Madison III Well, speaking of the housewives. Yes, Traders is back. It’s here.

 

Louis Virtel And I saw all three episodes when I was hanging out in San Diego.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And my keep it does not go to spoiler alert Dorinda medley being one of the first people. Act on the series is very disappointing that we would not get to see, you know, more of one of my favorite housewives on on the show just being crazy and unhinged at the roundtable. Especially because one, people were imagining that she could be a traitor just because of how she was attacking people immediately. And I wanted to I wanted to let them know. Maybe that’s just Dorinda. She’s not even drunk here.

 

Louis Virtel No, this is her in her right mind. Just kind of scat singing, yelling at everybody.

 

Ira Madison III No, My real keep it, though, is connected to her being killed. And it is the fact that I’m starting to think that Big Brother players are just bad ass traders.

 

Louis Virtel It’s well, it’s interesting. You’re talking about Daniel Reyes now.

 

Ira Madison III Talking about Daniel Reyes, who is an icon to me in Big Brother, the best player to never win. And then last season, we had Dan, who was truly my favorite Big Brother player. But I think that the skills required to win Big Brother are not the skills that you need for the trainers.

 

Louis Virtel And what do you mean? Because I do feel like among the reality shows, I at least intuitively connect these two in my head because it’s about fooling people, it’s about diplomacy, etc..

 

Ira Madison III Well, so Dan played the game very under the radar.

 

Louis Virtel We’re talking about damages leg. Who is like the most vaunted player in Big Brother history? Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Dan gets to play the game under the radar and in traders, people started suspecting that he was one because he wasn’t throwing out options of who he thought a trader could be. Weirdly, in this game, you really just sort of have to, like, say, a name and, like, stick at it like a dog with a fucking bone. Otherwise, people think that you’re a trader because there’s always someone at stake at the round table. Well, who do you think is a trader? And traders usually fail when they don’t have an option. They just sort of go, Well, I’m waiting to hear what other people say. Now, that’s a mistake. And then Geno isn’t doing that. But the people she’s killing, she’s not smartly thinking about it because different people thought that she was a trader. So it did not make sense to kill her. You keep her around as a shield. And I think that survivor players are sort of more equipped to keeping people around in the game as shields, which is why when Rob became a trader and joined them, he claimed that set up. And, you know, I saw that he was angry at having to get rid of Tony. But, you know, like he knows at least instinctively how to play the game a bit better.

 

Louis Virtel I will say, though, I was a bit disappointed when we’re talking about Boston. Rob from Survivor and legendary survivor player came in and was named one of the traders along with the three other traders who include Bob the drag Queen, Daniel Reyes. And then who? What’s the other woman’s name?

 

Ira Madison III Carolyn Wigger from Survivor.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, she was also named, I have to say, when the trio without Bob were the traders. I thought that was pretty fabulous. I thought the three of them had like a potentially rad vibe going. And then Boston Rob comes and he goes, I was so disappointed to see these three people I was working with. I was like, We were having a good time a second ago and to do this mean it’s a gay guy and two women. Is that what you mean?

 

Ira Madison III Well, I think he meant it mostly in that. Bob, everyone in the house already thinks he’s a traitor. I think that Bob is the one who’s going to get caught first. And I think that he meant that mostly because he did have to sort of out himself even more as a potential trader by getting Tony out. Because if he hadn’t gotten Tony out of that roundtable, Bob was probably going to go home.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Yeah, I mean, he certainly was. He reacted very, very defensively, which if it works on occasion, I think that can sort of propel you through the game. But in this case, it just seemed like he was about to burst into tears for another reason.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I will say that I think that Rob and Carolyn teaming up will kind of be iconic because she seems like the one who is best equipped to be a trader. She’s kooky, you know, and she played up her kookiness.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, She’s also like believably emotional and not over-the-top, you know? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And, you know, for instance, like the crying in the morning. Why are you doing all that, girl? Less, less theatrics. I will say that, Tony, when he left, we’ve always talked about the rules of this game and sort of how it’s scattershot, you know, how you win or whatever. He said that in an interview when he left. I believe in Entertainment Weekly that the game is pretty much let us guess who Alan picked as traders, you know. Right. That’s what the game is. And he wishes that they would have consequences if you get it wrong. Because going in there, you don’t care. You form an alliance and you just vote everybody off. There’s no consequence whether they’re a trader or not. I wish they would be like, Hey, guys, you get it? Wrong. You’re up for murder tonight. But if you get a traitor out, you’re safe. And it gives you an incentive to try to actually really want to get a traitor out. Because they never would have voted me out if that was the case, because they knew I was not the traitor. But they were just like, okay, this guy is deceptive. We can’t trust them. Let’s get them out. Traitor or not?

 

Louis Virtel Well, again, this points to the thing I am most fascinated about with this show, which is I think it’s entertaining based on the personalities in it, but it is not a good game. And I feel like as the seasons go on, there will be changes and tweaks made to the game that will probably improve it and I look forward to how they navigate that because again, also we’re still in this universe where we’re watching them do physical challenges that have no ramifications for the game, you know. But still, they added one little wrinkle recently. But like, they need more of things. They need more things like that.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I will say the challenges this season have been very fun to watch because they, you know, not just the adding of the shields, the thing of like who’s deciding like if they’re going to not be up for murder, etc.. I’m watching the challenges board this season and also traders. UK Season three is fantastic.

 

Louis Virtel Now I need like a VPN to watch that though. Don’t you know? What the fuck is that? Wasn’t it? Didn’t we strike a deal? Wasn’t this going to be on Peacock.

 

Ira Madison III Baby, just go to Expressvpn. It’s like $9 a month.

 

Louis Virtel Oh okay. I didn’t realize it was that easy.

 

Ira Madison III You have that Kimmel money.

 

Louis Virtel I’ll look at the old check, we’ll see what there’s room for.

 

Ira Madison III Also to lastly say. Speaking of games, I’ve been watching Pop culture Jeopardy and I really enjoy it.

 

Louis Virtel I mean, I will say about this, I was skeptical about having three people on a team for pop culture Jeopardy! But really the breadth of material you need teammates for this. Like I know I’m obviously a movies TV music guy. I do not know much about TikTok. I do not know much about sports as they pertain to pop culture. So we like having a team of three people really makes a lot of sense of the show and the teams are very impressive.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I will also say that maybe you knew a lot more people on the original Jeopardy because you’re immersed in that Kings gambit.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Of Jeopardy players.

 

Louis Virtel Trebekistan yes..

 

Ira Madison III Yes, yes. But the people in this are more like pub trivia people. And I was shocked at how many people I knew.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yeah, no.

 

Ira Madison III In point of culture, Jeopardy.

 

Louis Virtel I think also demographically, it’s our people too. It’s a lot of 30 to 45.

 

Ira Madison III So yeah, and there’s a lot more Fagots.

 

Louis Virtel Quite. I mean, I mean, there’s a reason people online are calling a gay Jeopardy. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III All right. Thank you to Robbie Williams for joining me this week. And if you’re in Los Angeles, try to stay safe.

 

Louis Virtel And we will see you next week on Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Sheng and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.