A Hard Look in the Black Mirror | Crooked Media
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November 10, 2022
Dare We Say
A Hard Look in the Black Mirror

In This Episode

Phones! Can’t live with ’em, can’t live without ’em. Josie, Alycia, and Yasmine talk about our dependency on our iPhones (boo, green texts) and how we can feel a bit less overwhelmed by them. Then, we’re blessed with another Unhinged with Yasmine.

Show Notes

Are screen devices soothing children or soothing parents?
Smartphones revolutionize our lives—but at what cost?
Phone withdrawal has physical impact: expert
First Cellular Phone Call Was Made 45 Years Ago




Yasmine Hamady: Good morning class. 


Josie Totah: Hi. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hola, hola. 


Yasmine Hamady: Hi good morning, baby. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh my gosh, your voice is so pleasing, so joyful. 


Yasmine Hamady: Really? Does it make you calm? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh. 


Yasmine Hamady: I oh and that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It was that, it was a switch up. Guys, we’re back. 


Josie Totah: That was a moment. 


Yasmine Hamady: You guys. 


Josie Totah: Hi, I’m Josie Totah. [saying Totah with an Italian accent]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Totah. 


Josie Totah: And I’m saying that like that because I’m in Italia. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ohhh. 


Yasmine Hamady: She is and it’s she’s. I just want to paint a picture if you’re listening to this. [laughter] She’s in her bathrobe right now. Her hair is damp. She’s and like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: She’s giving Lizzie McGuire movie. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s giving Lizzie McGuire movie. And it’s almost like cottagecore. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Very much. 


Yasmine Hamady: Like in Italy. Eat, pray, love, type shit. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: She’s. You’re really just beautiful. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You’re sitting in front of somebody’s [?] like this. I just love– 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re just– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –All of it. You’re glowing. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re just beautiful. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And that’s–


Yasmine Hamady: We’re dedicating this episode– [banter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –to Josie Totah. Okay, Josie Totah. 


Josie Totah: My heart. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: In Italy. Hi! 


Josie Totah: Who are you? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m Alycia Pascual-Peña.


Yasmine Hamady: Hi, I’m Yasmine Hamady and you are watching Disney Channel. [Yasmine and Alycia singing humming theme intro song]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Anyways, how are we, guys? 


Josie Totah: Well, I was so blessed by just the life saving measure that was Alycia. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Um. Last week, weekend, when I randomly was like, will you come and meet me in Spain for the weekend? And Alycia said, yes. It’s this is that was like very privileged sentence to say, but we recognize it and we’re grateful for it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And um we were able to meet up in Spain. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: And have the best weekend in the Mallorca. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It was ethereal. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Josie Totah: In Mallorca.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I am so grateful. 


Josie Totah: And honestly it was so fun. I I thought it was going to be like a very like resort vibe where we just sit every day and like lay by the pool. 


Yasmine Hamady: White Lotus. 


Josie Totah: But like, we literally. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: God it was not. 


Josie Totah: We were Dora the motherfucking Explorer. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes babe we were. 


Josie Totah: And I’m not just saying that because Alycia is Latina. I’m saying that because I was literally– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [?] the camera. 


Josie Totah: –Map and Alycia was Dora. Like, we literally were just vibing up a storm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You were the Map and–


Josie Totah: Oh I was like Boots. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –I was Dora with the backpack. 


Josie Totah: Or was I–


Yasmine Hamady: And I was Swiper no swiping across the pond. Being like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You were Swiper! 


Yasmine Hamady: –are you guys answering my fucking texts?


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You were Swiper. 


Josie Totah: Literally, [laugh] literally. Anyway, we just had such, did you have a good time? I’m speaking for you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, I literally, like I said earlier, it was ethereal. It was so healing, it was so beautiful. Probably not the smartest thing to leave my life in disarray at the drop of a hat. Going to try not to do that again, but I would do it again [laugh] for you. Um.


Josie Totah: Wait what, your life was in disarray? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, I think I just, like left so last minute. But it was so beautiful. It was so healing. Like um we were doing all the hikes, jumping into random– 


Yasmine Hamady: See. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Beaches. I came back just floating just because, you know, we haven’t been able to spend time together and we got to like experience this new country together. I also felt like it was just so special um not only to travel with you, but like to experience a new culture, new food with you. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I feel like that’s what life is about. And yeah, we had the best time ever. 


Yasmine Hamady: I was going to say like honestly, yes, you might have left at the drop of a hat and you came back and you were overwhelmed. But like as a best friend, coming from this perspective, I’m so glad you went and I’m so glad both of you guys were together, because if you like in 20 years, you’re going to look back and be like, fuck, that was such an amazing week. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Thank you. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m so grateful that I had that experience. Honestly, I’m so happy that you guys both went. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s little moments like this where you look back and you’re like, I’m so grateful. And I think that also goes to like ties tying into the phone thing. Where like, you guys weren’t on social media talking about it, posting about it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Showing the world like that– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Nobody knew I was there, like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And mind you, I was I was not overwhelmed. If anything, it’s like what Josie said. I’m so privileged that I was able to do that. A couple of years ago that was not my life. 


Yasmine Hamady: That wasn’t an option for you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I live a very blessed life in ways that I couldn’t even have imagined–


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –As a kid because of the humble beginnings I come from. So, I was so grateful to do that. And coming back, I wasn’t even overwhelmed. I I feel like it was just like I think I did something so spontaneous, which is very out of my character to do that. I even had like a really fruitful conversation with my manager about it and just like not equating our self worth with work. And I think that has a lot to do with phones because we think like, oh, we put this phone down, we’re going to miss an opportunity, we’re going to miss work. And like Josie and I had our phones down most of the time, like nobody knew I was there. I literally have taken like over seven flights in the last two weeks and people don’t know where I’m at. And it’s been beautiful to just be present with new people. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. And well I agree. I agree. And because of how great last weekend was, I was literally like, I want to go somewhere the weekend after. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: So that is why I took a solo trip. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: To the south of Italy and to the Amalfi coast. And, you know, it was very interesting, two days that I had with myself, I learned a lot about myself. It was harder than I thought it would be it to be alone in a country for that long. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: Which it sounds crazy because like I live alone in Scotland and like I’m constantly like I’m more alone in Scotland than I’ve ever been in my life. But then when I was in Italy, I was like, I actually am not that alone that much in Scotland. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: And I literally went up to the woman at the front desk at my hotel and I said. I want to have the best food. I don’t care if it’s a nice restaurant. I don’t care if it’s fancy. I don’t care if it’s close or far. Can you make me reservation at the best restaurant in town? And this woman said, [?] si. [laughter] So she, boss ass bitch, she’s like 20 years old– 


Yasmine Hamady: Love her. 


Josie Totah: –and is a DJ. But anyway, she made me this reservation. A man in a shuttle picked me up and took me to this place far as fuck away. And I sat down and the owner of this restaurant kept giving me free food. I was really like am I literally at like a promoter dinner right now? Because this man like kept serving me food and like, what do you want from me? 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s like in squid game. The last scene where they’re feeding everyone before they have them–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Fight to the death. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s [?] [indistinct].


Josie Totah: That was literally it. And he was just really nice, he kept bringing me free stuff. He gave me a free um shot of limoncello. 


Yasmine Hamady: As he should. 


Josie Totah: Which was amazing. And then I already had a glass of wine. So, you know, I was like, I wasn’t buzzed at all but I was like. I was warm–


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: –is how I would describe it.


Yasmine Hamady: I know exactly that. 


Josie Totah: And at a certain part of the dinner, this man came up to me and I had just like finished my main meal. And he was like, oh I’ll give you dessert for free. And I was like, oh, my God, thank you. And then he said to me, he was like, do you want to meet my brother? And I was like, sure, which I don’t know why I said, yes. I just kind of thought he was going to be like, like bring out his brother to the dinner table. But then all of a sudden I’m following him outside the restaurant [gasp] and into this back room. 


Yasmine Hamady: Um. 


Josie Totah: Which is like another part of the restaurant. Mom, don’t get scared. While I was walking back, I was like, did I just make the worst decision of my life, like, is this about to be a chapter in my memoir? [laughter] Like, am I going to have an interview with, like, Katie Couric about this? 


Yasmine Hamady: Like Diane Sawyer’s shaking.


Josie Totah: And then because the rest– because the dinner was like, or the restaurant was like closing. So like, I was really the only one in there. And I walked to the back and all of the chefs are around a table in the kitchen and they’re all eating and cheering and celebrating. He was like, it’s my brother’s birthday, pull up a chair. And he literally pulled up a chair. All of a sudden I’m eating, I’m drinking with like this, all the chefs of the kitchen with this guy’s 80 year old dad. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Josie Totah: With his like cousin– 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love that. 


Josie Totah: –With his little cousin, with the 16 year old that works at the restaurant. And then we’re having like homemade cake–


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Josie Totah: –From this like their Italian friend who’s a baker. And it was so wonderful. And I had the most incredible conversation with this man, shot up Paolo. And Paolo was basically the only one who kind of knew English, everyone else I was kind of just like vibing with like, their attitude. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh! 


Josie Totah: Because I really couldn’t understand them.


Yasmine Hamady: Sing to me, Paolo. 


Josie Totah: Um. And Paolo was telling me about how frustrated he was with our generation. I’m not even kidding because he was like, you guys are all so obsessed with your phones. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mmm. 


Josie Totah: And like, it’s all this. And he kept doing like the motion of texting. He was like, you’re not living anymore. You’re not going outside, you’re not experiencing things. And he said, you know, when we were when we were younger, this entire room would be packed. But there’s there was probably like 10 to 12 people in there, but he was it like a large room. It was like this room would be packed to the brim. It would be like people on top of each other. But he was like, now everybody’s on their computer watching TV or–


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. Yup.


Josie Totah: Um. Just like not being present. And he was like, we learn from each other. He also said, everybody wants to talk, but nobody wants to listen. And I was like, that is so true. Obviously not that profound to say, but like it hit. And I was like as a podcaster, I’m like, that hits. Um. But what what I will say is that he was fucking amazing. And it kind of inspired me to talk about phones today and how we’ve kind of become so obsessed with it. It’s literally like an addiction, dare I say, like in [?] or a flume or whatever the fuck people do because I do not smoke. Hashtag smokeless. Um. If the idea of talking about how phones are single handedly and slowly ruining our lives um overwhelms you, then join this conversation. We can talk about our toxic relationship with the meanest man of them all, which is the toxic iPhone or Samsung, if you’re weird but whatever. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, not the slander. Texts go green. 


Yasmine Hamady: Text. If you’re texts go green automatically you’re getting ghosted. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, no. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. No I stand by that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: We love everybody. 


Yasmine Hamady: Not the Samsung. 


Josie Totah: Oh, and we’re also going to do another rendition of Unhinged with– 


Yasmine Hamady: Jesus Christ. 


Josie Totah: –Yasmine Hamady. So we’ll get in to it, after the break. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Hey. Hi. Yeah, you. Don’t forget to follow us at @darewesay on Instagram and subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube.com/darewesay. We will be right back. 




Josie Totah: In life, our phones have become our accessory not only to our lives, but to our beings. I wanted to talk about a conversation that we have every day on this item, which is the cell phone. I am an addict and you are one too. Most likely, the first thing you do in the morning is check your phone. The last thing you do is check your phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie. What the fuck. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Wait. I think that’s wonderful. But should we be telling people they’re an addict? 


Josie Totah: Wait. I mean, they are, though. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, no. You cannot tell people that. [banter]


Yasmine Hamady: No. Scientifically it’s not an addiction. 


Josie Totah: No, we are. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You you– 


Josie Totah: Huh? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, you cannot–


Yasmine Hamady: No they did a study on this. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –tell people that. 


Yasmine Hamady: They did they did a study on this. It’s not an addiction. 


Josie Totah: Okay. Okay. Sorry, you’re not an addict. Let’s get into this conversation about phones. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Phones, phones, phones, phones. It’s a hot topic. So many feelings, so many emotions. But I want to ask you guys, what is your relationship with your phone? Because I feel like all of our um feelings towards phones are very different. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, they’re all vastly different, for me I feel like the phone is and this is really sad to say. And if you’re like, oh, this is so pathetic, chances are you’re probably– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Most of the world. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Most of the world. It’s a lifeline. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: It is a part of your lifeline. It’s um I don’t want to say exactly it’s an addiction because an addiction, it literally is different than a drug, because this is also essential for everyday life. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But you can be codependent on your phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: Absolutely. Well, you are. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I am. I’m codependent on my phone. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct] on my phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I’m I the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is I go on my phone. The last thing I do before I go to bed is I go on my phone. So my relationship with my phone is I love it. But it is it gives me so much anxiety. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I feel like I rely on it and depend on it. 


Josie Totah: It really does give you anxiety Yas. 


Yasmine Hamady: It does like the rush or the like all my anxiety lies in my stomach and my gut. It always has since I was a kid. And like getting a text from someone that I didn’t want to get a text from makes my stomach drop. And the fact that just seeing someone’s name pop up on a phone can have a visceral reaction in to my my health, my like literal immune system is so insane. And along with social media, I also feel like I’m getting dumber. Like, I take notes on this instead of writing. I don’t know how to do like, I’m too lazy to do, like, simple math. I have a calculator here. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: I track my health here, my steps. It’s it’s becoming every– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Things that you don’t know offhand. 


Yasmine Hamady: Then, that you should be knowing–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Offhand. I’m relying on this to create memories instead of living for the right now, making a memory. Does that make sense? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Of course it does. I think all of us like even if there are people that are better at putting down their phones, all of us subconsciously have to engage. 


Yasmine Hamady: 100%. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: With our phone in unhealthy manners, whether it’s for work, whether it’s the way that we communicate with people. I’ll be totally transparent. My relationship with my phone is actually something I’m pretty embarrassed about. 


Yasmine Hamady: Go on. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like I am very embarrassed about because I’m not good with my phone. I’m like a bad texter, and I don’t say that to be cute or have people pander to me. I think sometimes it can come off that way. Like, Oh, it’s like I’m just a bad texter. Like, just blow up my phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: No, she like, she’s– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, I’m an awful texter. Like, I’m an awful texter. I have literally, like, jeopardized friendships with people because of my inability to communicate over the phone or um, you know, because I very much sometimes will just see an influx of texts because I’ll get a lot of texts or I’ll get a lot of phone calls, and then I’m like, okay, if I open this one text, I have to open the other 300. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like, that’s not an exaggeration. So then I don’t touch any of them. And that’s super–


Yasmine Hamady: She’s just really popular. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No, no. 


Yasmine Hamady: So she has 400 texts. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No. 


Yasmine Hamady: No, I’m fucking with you. No. But I hear you. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Please do, because there is certain times where, like, I think, you know, even you guys. But I’ve had other friends have like very like start conversations with me where they were holding me accountable and being like, hey, I don’t feel heard and I don’t feel like you’re showing up for me as a friend because of your inability to communicate, because the bare minimum is to respond to a text from four weeks ago, you know what I mean? 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But then it’s also like, how do we navigate the juxtaposition of my peace is my peace and I don’t owe anyone anything. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I also think that as humans, we weren’t made to be this accessible to everyone at all times. 


Yasmine Hamady: Agreed. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because I don’t only have texts, I got calls, I got DMS, I got Twitter which fun fact they took my verification away because I haven’t used it since 2021. But anyways–


Yasmine Hamady: On Twitter? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. 


Yasmine Hamady: Well that’s because also Elon– 


Josie Totah: That’s so spiteful. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Trifling. Anyways.


Yasmine Hamady: Also, Elon Musk took it over so–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Ugh. 


Yasmine Hamady: –That’s why. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –let’s not even– 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Give him the airtime. But anyw–


Yasmine Hamady: What’s your relationship with your phone? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Um I Okay. I feel like in the grand scheme of like people my age with their phone. I have a pretty good relationship with it. Like I am. Yes, I’m addicted to my phone, I’m addicted to TikTok, I’m addicted to for some reason, looking at myself on the camera. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: Like 24/7. If a random person walks into a restaurant, they could literally be the least attractive person to me in the entire world. I would still be like, how am I being perceived right now? 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Josie Totah: I, I am just so obsessed with how I’m how I’m constantly perceived at any given moment, and that’s something that I’m trying to work on. Um. I think that when Alycia had COVID, I um did a cleanse with my social media. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I don’t know why I chose to do it when you had COVID, but it helped. And I [something unknown hitting the mic] literally um I was off Instagram and everything and was still on my phone, but that really helped because I wasn’t until I deleted the app. And I suggest you guys all do to like try for a day or however long–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –you know, you can handle it. Because my thumb kept going to the place that the Instagram was. It was like a l– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. Yes. Josie.


Josie Totah: Like a [?]. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes like just a reaction. 


Josie Totah: What’s it called? Wait, no, what is that called? [indistinct] can a producer look that up?


Yasmine Hamady: A reflex. A reflex? 


Josie Totah: No, no, no. Like when someone cuts off their toes–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh and it still moves. 


Josie Totah: And it still feels like their toes there. Yeah. Yeah, can someone can– 


Yasmine Hamady: What is it called?


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Phantom limb. 


Josie Totah: Um. 


Yasmine Hamady: Phantom limb. 


Josie Totah: Okay. I was like phantom limb, and um that’s what it was for me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: And I was like, wow. And honestly, I feel like I have a really good relationship. Not really good. I think I have a goodish relationship with social media, but still not with my phone. When I wake up, I try– I want to see the texts that I got, it’s the validation that I get. And often, I mean, I’m gonna be honest, probably not that often. 


Yasmine Hamady: Okay. 


Josie Totah: But once in a hot min I will wake up with the urge to check my phone and I will stop myself. This is so embarassing. 


Yasmine Hamady: No, it’s not. 


Josie Totah: But I will literally be like. I will be like, name ten things that you’re grateful for today. And I will do that first. And then I’m like, okay you can check your phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: Oh Josie. But no, but I don’t think that’s weird Josie. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s not weird at all. 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s like–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I think we should all incorporate, incorporate more mindfulness practices into our daily routine, even if they’re minuscule. Like, I don’t think that this is a big deal because it’s not. It’s literally so sad that I have to mindfully–


Josie Totah: No. I’m proud of you for it, I didn’t even mention it. But I’m proud of you for it.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You know what it is? Yes, because you guys lived with me. So every morning I wake up the same way I try to have my phone, like physically away from me, and I will blast gospel music. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s true. [banter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s it’s my thing. 


Josie Totah: Wait no, I was going to talk about something else. I thought you were going to talk about the fact that you set time limits for Instagram. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, I do. 


Yasmine Hamady: She does do that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I do. 


Yasmine Hamady: But that but I’m like, Alycia–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Thank you Josie. 


Yasmine Hamady: –When she wakes up, her phone will be on the other side of the bed, charging not next to her. She won’t even go on it. And she’ll put on gospel music. Or a preacher’s–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. Or like a sermon. 


Yasmine Hamady: A sermon on–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And and mind you, that’s different for everybody. Like, I know my friend, like Emily. Um love her so much. She will put on, like, meditation sounds. Um. Other people will do things that will, like, align their chakras. But for me, gospel music is really helpful. Like even this morning I had my phone like in my room playing gospel music and I did my make up and like had a conversation with Angelica because my friend had slept over um and just was present in the morning. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And then let my day start. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Um. But then even that sometimes I can’t do because there’s an email or–


Yasmine Hamady: I was gonna say– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Whatever it may be. 


Yasmine Hamady: –I I think it’s really amazing that you guys are able to do that sometimes, but it’s so ambitious. Sometimes I feel like to even do that because chances are like I’m waking up in the morning, I have to make coffee quickly because I’m exhausted. I have work in the morning, I have a [?] and I’m we all do. But it’s like I don’t have I need to see who messaged me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And also why is it awful that I get disheartened if I don’t wake up with a bunch of text messages of people reaching out to me? 


Josie Totah: What the phone has done, what these apps have done is create a literal codependency. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: Between– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: –The phone and us the person, that’s almost like a drug. 


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. 


Josie Totah: And it keeps giving us more and more. All of these apps are designed to trigger our serotonin level–


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: Down to the way the notification looks, the way the– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –notification pops up on your phone, the color of these apps, the colors of what it means when someone’s texted you or when um your DMs are emboldened, like the text is emboldened because like that means there’s a DM there. Like, all of these things are intricately designed to fuck us over. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Josie Totah: And I’m just wondering because how fucked it is it and it because how serious it is serious intention equals serious impact. 


Yasmine Hamady: [?]. 


Josie Totah: And that impact results in, you know, anxiety, crippling anxiety for some people.


Yasmine Hamady: I think it’s interesting. There was actually a study you bring up how the design is literally made to impact our mind. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah it’s psychology. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s psychology. It’s they did a study where there were actual withdrawals that if you don’t be on your phone for a couple hours, you get exhausted like your your your brain gets sleepy, you get bored easily. But so then what do you do to get back up again? You go back on your phone. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And it’s a constant cycle that it’s making you yearn for it more. And it also when you get on social media, like for me when I post a photo and I’m getting a bunch of attention, my day gets better. And I think that I think it’s deeper than obviously the phone it’s I want public validation from people, which is a human thing that I know everyone feels. But it’s also like we’re starting so young now on social media and having these phones like babies for– there was another study that we’ll cite in the um podcast notes that when like toddlers, specifically the age of 2 to 4. You know how there’s the terrible twos. They’re crying all the time and they’re throwing tantrums. So parents– 


Josie Totah: Is it because they want a phone? 


Yasmine Hamady: They’re like, gimme a fucking iPhone, mom. No, it’s because and it’s just like kids being kids and the mom–


Josie Totah: Right. 


Yasmine Hamady: Or the parent would give them an iPad, a tablet, an iPhone to shut them up. And usually a good portion of the time they’re quiet, but then they look back years later and it’s they shut off their emotions because they just pacify on this phone. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: On social media, on games, and apps just to shut down instead of handling the problem face first you just kind of just push it to the side and get on the phone. 


Josie Totah: It’s like that feeling when you post a photo on Instagram. I used to, when I use to and I still kind of have [?] I say, I think I have 10% of this feeling, maybe 6% because I’m just being honest. Um. When you post on Instagram you’re immediately like, you think the world hates you. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: And you’re like constantly checking– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yup. 


Josie Totah: –Like how that photo is doing. And that is not even something that I want to do. But just naturally my body does and I’ve developed a really healthy relat– on social media now, I feel like because I just genuinely do not give a flying figgity fuck– 


Yasmine Hamady: Mmmm. 


Josie Totah: –About it, like, I don’t care, I’m not trying. I think when I was younger and by when I was younger, I mean last year. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re like yesterday. 


Josie Totah: I was like– 


Yasmine Hamady: When I was younger. 


Josie Totah: I felt like I needed to prove to myself and other people that, like, I’m hot and I’m like, you know, gorgeous. And these are like cute photos of me here, and I’m having a fun life here. And it’s like now it’s like, I don’t feel the need to fucking prove anything to anyone any more. And I’m like, You can see that I’m hot in person and like, fuck off. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I feel like that’s gotten better. But still, the phone and this may be one of the most insensitive things I have said on this podcast, so please tell me if–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh. 


Josie Totah: –This is like fucked up. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: But I do think that one could liken like a phone addiction to similar tendencies with a food addiction. And that’s a hot take and– 


Yasmine Hamady: Go on. Back up your point.


Josie Totah: I’m saying that because, because in this century that we live in. The 21st. I did get a college degree. In the 21st century that we live in are, we need our phones like we need food. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s essential. 


Josie Totah: And so that’s why it’s like when it comes to something like alcoholism. And like I’m not comparing different types of addictions. I’m also not an expert at all um and I haven’t lived through that. So I cannot testify to that genuinely. But when it comes to something that’s like foreign drugs or controlled substances, it makes more sense in my head how someone could separate themselves from it. But when it’s something like food, um it’s you kind of you can’t really blame the person. It’s like you have to live, you have to eat to live, you know? It’s like, that must be such a hard thing to, like, cut out of your daily life because you literally need to eat to survive. And obviously this is has a very different impact. But I definitely think we need our phones in the 21st century. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: A hund–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And it’s like–


Josie Totah: You need it for work and we need it for life. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. And it’s sad to say, because I think it’s really easy to like tell people like, oh, just don’t use your phone. That is literally not possible for most of us. 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s not possible. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: For example, I couldn’t have traveled without my phone. There were certain things when I got to different countries that I needed to do on my phone that I would have not been able to do. There were like, for example, say I didn’t know the language. Like I knew the language in Spain. Like people have translate, like I needed to be able– 


Josie Totah: Flex. [laughter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Did you say flex? Oh, yeah. I’m an immigrant. Ooh, so cool. Well, I do think it’s cool, but– 


Yasmine Hamady: As it should be.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –I feel like I was just in uh a after school ad but–


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. I think it’s cool that I’m a daughter of immigrants, and you’re watching Dare We Say. That’s basically what it felt like. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But no, like. It’s so funny because you’ll meet like that Silverlake, like hippie boy. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. [banter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I have a flip phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, yeah yeah.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Who needs a phone? It’s like, well, yeah, babe, I have emails to answer, so cool. Like, please do what’s best for you, but like, we all have to use a phone. What is scary is like the overconsumption of us using the phone like we were physically not made to look at a screen this long. It blows my mind. Like now I feel like a total nerd when we think about how we’re evolving as humans, because of our phones. 


Yasmine Hamady: Physically. Did you see the National Geographic–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Physically we’re changing. Like, literally like–


Yasmine Hamady: –cover– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: My mom. My mom talks about this all the time and she’s gonna laugh that I even brought this up. But she genuinely thinks that her neck curves differently because of because of her computer. 


Yasmine Hamady: No but it’s true. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So like the overconsumption of it, like we’re all on this way too much. Like just scientifically, objectively. Like there are studies that say Americans check their smartphones on average of 96 times a day, which works out to once every 15 minutes. Two thirds of Americans check their phones 160 times every day. 


Yasmine Hamady: I probably do it like seven hundred– 


Josie Totah: Bitch I, I beat that. 


Yasmine Hamady: –thousand 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No I know. [banter]


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah literally. I’m like checking my phone every five seconds. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I was like, frankly, I think we we passed that but. 


Josie Totah: I check my phone so much that my phone checks me. I mean. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. [laughter] 


Josie Totah: [indistinct] never not. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Stop. But but I think that the way that we navigate using our phones is really differently. So it makes me want to pose the question, what are specific moments or instances that have given you anxiety or heighten your stress around having a phone? Because I think that’s different for all of us. For me personally, it’s text all the way. Like, I know that this sounds like such a preposterous statement, but I do believe it with every fiber of my being. I wish our phones didn’t have texting, and I know that that’s literally the most convenient part of having a phone. I wish they only had calls. I don’t care about responding to text immediately, but what I think does stress me out, and I think what does give me anxiety is not the phone itself is the fact that I’ve had people question where we stand because of my inability to have quick responses or to be present in that way, if that makes any sense. 


Yasmine Hamady: Which is valid. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Which is valid. So I’ll have like 400 texts, 500 texts on my phone. I’m like, okay, cool. Like it’s not that deep because it’s also I have that same sentiment towards people with me. If I text you and you don’t text me right away, I don’t really care unless we’re making plans. I’m not an awful person. I am consistent and present with that, but I think I literally sent it in our group chat this week. I fell out with a friend that I literally have not responded to just this week from high school, one of my best friends from high school, because they had been harboring anger towards me because of my inability to like text back or call them as much as they would like. But they never articulated that to me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Hmm. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So, like, those moments are really hard for me because I just don’t put that much weight into my phone. And that is what stresses me out the most about having a phone. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. I mean, I can speak on like even behalf of like our texts that like we sent to Dare We Say it’s for the last like week and a half, like I’ll text you and also prefacing it. I don’t take it personally because I know where I stand with you constantly. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re my like sister. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And also, if I need you, I’ll call you. That’s something that I know. You’ll– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: –always pick up. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’ll always pick up a call. I always pick up a call. 


Yasmine Hamady: She’ll always pick up a Facetime. She won’t answer a text, but it was like a week. I’ll text her every single day. Alycia del Sol, I miss you. Hey, do you have your mic with you? Baby? She doesn’t reply, but she answers to our group texts and then she’s like, I’m so sorry. And I’m like, I don’t take offense, but there might people in your life that will take offense to it.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And see the same. I say this all to say like I never want to police someone’s feelings either. Like when someone comes to me with that comment, I’m not going to like. You know, whisk you away or I’m not going to, like, be like, dismissive. Because that I never want to do I always want to validate people’s feelings. But sometimes I think that people take it too far and it’s like, you don’t have a jurisdiction over my time just because you have my phone number. Like, I’m sorry. 


Yasmine Hamady: No of course. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Like you know what I mean? Like, I take that really seriously. Like, I don’t love texting. Like, to sit and text back and forth with someone for 3 hours is my worst nightmare. Pick up the phone and call me. I always pick up a call, but I have to validate the fact that–


Yasmine Hamady: Can’t you argue, though, that if you want, instead of replying in text, you can call them back too? Like–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Tea.


Yasmine Hamady: But I don’t know. Just playing devil’s advocate. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Sometimes I don’t always have the time. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: No please play dev–


Yasmine Hamady: Absolutely. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But sometimes I just don’t always have the time. And then I’m like, if it was important, you’d call me. 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Because I’m a keep it a buck, too. I don’t want to sit here and talk about things that don’t like the mundane. You know what I mean? 


Yasmine Hamady: Sure, sure. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Some people just want to text to text. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I’m one of those people. 


Josie Totah: Well, I’ll inter–, I’ll interject here. I think that that conversation specifically, I think hits home because we all have to deal with that on a daily basis, not just with you Alycia, but in life– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –With texting– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Cause people just don’t text back. Yeah.


Josie Totah: –people and not being able to get back to them. And I think there’s so much to say about the fact that says who? Do we need to be available at all times? 


Yasmine Hamady: 100% 


Josie Totah: Says who do we need to be accessible at all times? And and and that same token. I think that there is something to say about, well, we do live in 2022. 


Yasmine Hamady: Mm hmm. 


Josie Totah: And if you’re posting on social media, maybe you could respond to something. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I think that’s just as valid as the other argument. I think both are true. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Agreed. 


Josie Totah: And I think we you know, I do not want to ever say this word again because I’m literally so sick of saying the word nuance. But I think this is a conversation that is that I mean, every conversation we have is, um lol. But– 


Yasmine Hamady: We’re so different. 


Josie Totah: I think that–


Yasmine Hamady: We’re so different. 


Josie Totah: I think that both are true. And that’s not a profound thing to say, but it is an accurate thing to say. And it is also my perspective, which is that like, I get it like there. I personally, even though I’m very different than you, Alycia I mean in so many ways, but when it comes to this because I feel like–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You’re so present. 


Josie Totah: –I have to respond to everyone and not only do I feel like I have to, I actually want to I want to be that person that like you text me, hey, and I’m like, What’s up? Like, my castmate Elisha texted me the other day and it was, like, kind of an alarm. It wasn’t an alarming situation, but like, the way she phrased her first text to me was kind of alarming. And then I could tell she kept typing for a long time, and I just texted her and I said, Hey, I’m here, in reading um and like, just because I wanted to, like, let her know that I was like, you know, present. And then she thanked me later she was like aww that made me really happy that like you were there in that moment. So in that way, I can’t relate to you. But in other ways I agree. And I had that experience when I was running a school organization um because people felt like they owned my time. 


[spoken together Alycia and Yasmine] Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And it I mean, it wasn’t everyone was not everyone. There were a lot of amazing people, but there were people that were like, and this was mainly people that I wasn’t even friends with at all or did not even communicate with. But obviously, when you’re a part of um the leadership of an organization, you need to be available. And you need to be present. But like not at like four AM. Um. Or like when you’re at like a family member’s funeral or just something that it’s like, obviously you’re not being present for that. So I relate too, in that way. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think it’s so interesting because I’m like the exact opposite because I, I, I look forward to getting reached out to people, like from people, I look forward to texting back people that I want to text back to. So if it’s someone that I love and care about, I will reply within seconds. And I don’t see a problem with that. But like also going back to just what Josie said of like she saw someone texting like her friend typing and didn’t say anything and just saying, hey, I’m here. Like when you said that, Josie, I got a physical reaction of my heart feeling warm. It’s little things like that that I’m like, you don’t know how much that means. Does that make sense? Especially, in a in a world that like we are all so busy that we can’t always be with each other physically. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: We can’t always be on the phone physically. So just a nice text means something. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And like, I’m so opposite of you. Like, I’m. I feel like– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: We couldn’t be more different. 


Yasmine Hamady: We couldn’t be more different. But, like, I think what makes our friendship work is that we talk about it. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah, we talk about it, and we’re honest about our differences. And also, please correct me if I’m wrong. I want to hold my hand to the fire. I don’t think it’s fair for like people to be reaching out to me sometimes and then see me on social media. As much as like I I stand ten toes down in this statement, like, I stand by the statement. It’s my phone. I can do what I want on it doesn’t mean I have to respond to you. But at the same time, I have to acknowledge that it’s not fair because I will say I have felt awful when someone reached out to me and because their very important text got lost in the mix, I wasn’t able to be present for them in a way that I would have wanted to. That, I do agree, is not fair. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I think that since I’ve met Josie and since I’ve met Yas, I’ve taken steps to do better and be better. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I’m still far from perfect. I’m still the worst in this entire room. But I always want to be a better friend. I always want to, like, grow. And I like thank you guys because you both have had separate conversations. I remember Josie and I in our like first few months of friendship, she sat me down. She was like, yeah, I can’t do that. You know how you went to New York and we didn’t talk for two weeks? 


Josie Totah: I was literally like, that’s a deal breaker. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. She was like, I can’t do that. And I was like, oh!


Yasmine Hamady: I mean, like, even this week Alycia. 


Josie Totah: Which can I just say? There are some people in my life and we don’t text every day. Sometimes we don’t we, we’ve gone through periods where we don’t text for weeks and it’s like, but we know that we love each other and we consistently show up for each other. And then when we do talk to each other, it is as if we have been together every second like so I think that friendships can exist like that and I love it. But the way that we were rolling, Alycia, and I don’t and also like if I had met you this year, maybe I would have been different in that convo. But the way that we’ve been rolling, like sharing a house together, sharing work together, and then not hearing from you, I think that’s why I was a little bit– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –Crazy. 


Yasmine Hamady: That’s fair though. 


Josie Totah: And was like that’s a dealbreaker in a friendship. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: It’s not a deal breaker now for those who are out there. Um.


Yasmine Hamady: They’re not friends anymore actually. 


Josie Totah: And I also there are ways to communicate with people that isn’t instant. Like my friend Kristian, he’s one of my favorite people on earth. We send each other video diary updates. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh I love that. 


Josie Totah: And um yeah, I don’t like respond immediately. He doesn’t respond immediately, but like we send each other a little short film. But I will say if this was a debate and if I was the moderator. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm. 


Josie Totah: I think that if I could honestly say something to the two of you. I think Alycia, I think for you, I think I understand all that you’re saying about not feeling the need to to respond to things that are, like, inconsequential or maybe like, insignificant. But I, I think then. If we were really to look at the majority of people’s concerns with not just you, but anyone who maybe isn’t that responsive, it’s probably not things that are inconsequential or insignificant to them. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I think that that’s what’s important to acknowledge. And in that same token, I think when it comes to someone like like you, Yasmine, who is I think similar to me in certain ways. I think it’s asking yourself, you know, what am I really getting from my response from this person? Is it really what I’m asking or is it just is this a form of love or a form of being seen in a way that you are not able to feel outside of that person? And maybe that’s a larger conversation– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –To have at home. 


[spoken together Alycia and Yasmine] I mean–


Josie Totah: And I think both of those are true. 


Yasmine Hamady: I think both can coexist. I think it’s I feel like nowadays I don’t need people to reply to me to know that they love me. Because if because I know that I can go to you no matter what and you will be there for me. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Absolutely. 


Yasmine Hamady: And I also and I think it’s very interesting, the whole phone thing and anxiety and communication. But I also want to touch on one more thing. And on this episode, this is now a career. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Social media, phones, influencers, people are constantly like pe– I have some friends who, like, go on outings and take like take content because that’s how they get money instead of making the content or going going on a trip just to go on a trip and make memories. You’re going on a trip to make content for social media, to make money, to pay rent. And it’s so–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Now your entire life is tied to a dollar.


Yasmine Hamady: And now you and now your entire life is tied to a dollar and it’s tied to this. And without this, you don’t get that. You don’t get that check. You can’t pay rent. And also, have you noticed I’ve seen a lot of displaced people um and houseless individuals. They will have a smartphone and not even have a home. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: That is crazy to me because that’s how, they’re trying, that’s how you get a job! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: But it’s also like, yeah, accessibility. You need that.


Yasmine Hamady: Accessibility.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You need that because it’s like– 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: How you get information–  


Josie Totah: The way people are going to be like if they can have a smartphone– 


Yasmine Hamady: Then they can get up and–


Josie Totah: –They can build a house. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Fucking work honestly. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Capitalists can shut up. But it’s and it’s like you need that because it’s a lifeline. Like it is a necessity. It’s like the same conversation of like, you know, kids from lower socioeconomic status communities needing computers in their household now because you can’t literally turn in your projects, your essays without it. 


Yasmine Hamady: Your college applications. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: You can’t. And it’s– 


Josie Totah: Well, that’s literally the reason why those kids struggled the most in the pandemic. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, my God. Talking about inequity–


Josie Totah: Literally– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It just ex–


Josie Totah: –There’s so many stats that discuss about–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: –Um. Those children who didn’t have access to technology and that are now like grades behind. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: A hundre– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And like not as proficient–


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –As their peers because of lack of accessibility and technology. Like, it’s such a necessity. Our phones are such a necessity. Do we think that there is a world that we can reach a balance where we’re on our phones for what we need and we’re enjoying it and it’s healthy, but also staying off of it and creating boundaries. Like what does that look like? Like, can we do that in this new world where we’re needing it more and more? 


Yasmine Hamady: I think there’s always balance. I think I think it takes a lot of power. I think it takes a lot of willpower. I think it takes a lot of bravery. And I think it takes a lot of uh accountability within yourself. And I’m saying accountability because I’m looking at me because every day I’m like, I’m going to look in the mirror and say, I’m the most beautiful person in the world and list out ten things I’m grateful for and I’ll be on my phone for the first 30 minutes. I haven’t done that in a year, so I have to hold myself accountable for that. Um. I do think that we can have this beautiful thing at the same time as taking in the actual world that we’re–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: –Living in right now. I think you can do both. I think it takes time. I think it’s I think it takes a lot of push because the world is um the world wants us to rely on this. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: The industry, the entertainment industry, our careers, um– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: The infrastructure of this 


Yasmine Hamady: The government– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –very country yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yes, they want us to rely on this. So I think it’s kind of I think goes back to our whole, Dare We Say thing, we’re disruptors. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Mm hmm. 


Yasmine Hamady: We have to disrupt this status quo and hold ourselves accountable of looking at the world, being present, having actual bonds physically face to face, if you can, without this. 


Josie Totah: Body on body. 


Yasmine Hamady: Body on body, body ody ody. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Body body bodies. Um. 


Yasmine Hamady: What about you?


Josie Totah: I think that it starts with step one, which is being honest with yourself first about your relationship and acknowledging it, and like get really aware of what it is, whether it’s like taking a step back for a day and also be honest with each other as people in what your needs are and require and know that it’s not your fault. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: Like I know this sounds very dramatic, um but it is fucking dramatic. Like we’re living on a planet where literally only for the past 22 years. Not even 22 years. For the past. Yeah, 20 years since phones isn’t that? That’s a stat. Um. Since like cell phones have become a thing like the past 20 years and like you know, never before have we had to have a whole world in our palm, in the palm of our hands. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Josie Totah: And I think that that has changed us in so many ways. And I think that it is not our fault. And I was literally talking about this today. We really cannot control just about fucking anything in this world. There are going to be amazing moments. They’re going to be bad moments. But the only thing that we can do as humans is control our relationship to that given moment. And I think that that comes with being present and forcing yourself to like take a step outside of your environment. And maybe that means shutting off your phone for a little bit. And I think in that, there is balance. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yay! And uh when we come back, we’re going to have a little episode of Unhinged. Good fucking luck. [music break]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yazzie boo. 


Yasmine Hamady: Hi guys! 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Today we have the pleasure, truly the honor of hearing another unhinged story from your life. Because you baby are the main character. 


Yasmine Hamady: I am. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And– 


Yasmine Hamady: I am. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –Have some really interesting things happen to you. People come into your life um just in general, but also specifically with dating. 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And I–


Yasmine Hamady: Not you laughing like that. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I am strapple, strapped in. 


Yasmine Hamady: You’re strapped on. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Sch– All this strapped in. Buckled up.


Yasmine Hamady: Josie’s face when I said strap on and she goes [silent pause]


Josie Totah: The [?] in me was like, we have a violation. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: HR, HR. That just leads us into another lovely conversation with Yas. Tell us what’s going on in your life, what’s happening datingwise? 


Yasmine Hamady: So what’s what’s the tea? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Who’s disrupting your peace this week? 


Yasmine Hamady: Ugh, but you know what? No one’s really disrupting my peace. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Good. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m kind of getting my pieces disrupted. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Oh, tea. 


Yasmine Hamady: So basically, I had a crazy fucking last week, so I’m kind of talking to someone right now, and I had a really crazy week with this person because um a lot of our relationships over the phone and, um you know, when you’re building and fostering a relationship with someone, for me, intimacy is really important and with that comes um being intimate over the phone, a.k.a. sexting, a.k.a. Facetime Intimacy. I don’t know–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Okay [?]. 


Yasmine Hamady: If there’s another word for that. Anyways, I have a toy. Love her. Love it. I I can’t believe I’m fucking saying this right now. And I’m going to town. I’m talking to my person and we’re being really cute and loving and live, laughing and loving. But I didn’t really. And I made a note, by the way, can I just say I had a blanket in my fucking–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Fighting for your life. 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m fighting for my life in my innocence right now. I have a blanket in my mouth so I don’t make too much noise because I know in sex I do make noise. I’m just a loud person.


Josie Totah: Ok wait I’m sorry. You are pleasuring yourself while you are like Osama bin Laden-ing your mouth, like a full- 


Yasmine Hamady: I’m waterboarding myself as I’m doing it. 


Josie Totah: Like like your self-terrorizing yourself by shoving a blanket in your mouth so you. So no one can hear you–


Yasmine Hamady: Well because I don’t want to– 


Josie Totah: –scream?


Yasmine Hamady: Correct. What am I going to do? Terrorize the whole apartment complex, which– 


Josie Totah: I mean. 


Yasmine Hamady: Anyways. 


Josie Totah: Yeah. 


Yasmine Hamady: So one thing leads to another and um I have my amazing time with my person and um I get a text right after I fucking finish you guys. Literally within seconds I finish, I’m like, [breathing heavily] and then I get a text from my roommate, hey, are you making noise? I go what and she said are you making weird– 


Josie Totah: Okay. I’m sorry, what fucking text is that? What do you mean are you making noise? If you live with me– 


Yasmine Hamady: Wait. No, no, no. That’s not what she said. She said, are you making weird noises? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Are you making weird noises?


Josie Totah: Oh okay. Okay. [laughing]


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, I want to say it again. And so–


Josie Totah: I’m like if you can hear a noise you dumb bitch and you’re like yeah that’s fucking noise. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I can’t. 


Yasmine Hamady: And so I get it. So I finish and literally within seconds I’m like–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yay. 


Yasmine Hamady: [heavy breath] Yeah, literally yay girls finishing. I’m like, [breathing heavily] like, breathless. And that’s that means that that’s when you know. That’s when you know– 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: You did your cardio for the day. 


Yasmine Hamady: I did my cardio for the day for the week maybe. And I get a text message from my roommate, Anna, and she goes, hey, are you making really loud, weird noises? I text within seconds. You’re lying. She goes our downstairs neighbor just called and said that she hears– 


Josie Totah: Wait was Anna not home? 


Yasmine Hamady: Anna was home, but she was in her room having headphones in so she didn’t hear. 


Josie Totah: How do you know she had headphones in? 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s the woman right under me. She had headphones in cause she was in a meeting. 


Josie Totah: Okay. You were doing that while your roommate was in a meeting. 


Yasmine Hamady: I don’t care. I’m in my home. I’m in my own room. What am I supposed to do? Like, also the time difference. Like, things are weir– like I’m not going to, like. You know what I mean okay?


Josie Totah: You can’t choose– [banter]


Alycia Pascual-Peña: [indistinct] gotta do. 


Yasmine Hamady: Can I just say this was during my lunch break? So– [laughing]


Josie Totah: Wait. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Josie Totah: Wait wait wait wait. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Josie Totah: Okay, so your neighbor called and complained about how loud you were being. 


Yasmine Hamady: She said, I’m making loud, weird, intimate noises and to quiet down. 


Josie Totah: Okay, so. And then what happened? 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: So this is a real–


Josie Totah: Did you awkwardly just sit there when you found out that your neighbor heard and were you just kind of like fragile and frozen–


Yasmine Hamady: No, I’m on the phone with this pers– 


Josie Totah: –In place?


Yasmine Hamady: I was frozen. You know, there’s fight, flight or freeze. I was I was freeze. I was frozen in time and I was naked. Hon–


Josie Totah: It’s fight or flight but– 


Yasmine Hamady: I was I was literally like this I’m with my phone and with my person. And this person was like, are you okay? Like, what just happened? What just happened? And I was like, I’m not coming back from this. This one I’m not coming back from because we park right next to each other. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Do you see them? I was gonna say.


Yasmine Hamady: My neighbor, my neighbors and I park right next to each other in our garage. And I saw them last night, you guys. And like, they come out together and I literally had to stay in my car. I was like, I’m like, I’m so embarrassed. It’s embarrassing. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Embarrasing. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s literally embarassing. [said in a British accent]


Josie Totah: I love that Anna is just so used to it by now, like, she wasn’t even complaining. She was just like our roommate and like our neighbor’s complaining. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: That’s so funny.


Yasmine Hamady: She’s like, babe, do you mind turning it down and I make sure I put the Amazon brown noise on. So it’s like you hear like noise in the background–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: What? 


Yasmine Hamady: So you don’t hear myself. 


Josie Totah: Not brown noise. 


Yasmine Hamady: Are are–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: There’s a whole like–


Yasmine Hamady: Brown noise is better than white no–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –process. 


Yasmine Hamady: –There’s a process like I have my whole setup and it’s also like–


Alycia Pascual-Peña: It’s a lunch break–


Yasmine Hamady: –by the way. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: –for me I’m going to say. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s not weird, by the way, you guys like this is like, everyone should be masturbating. It’s important.


Josie Totah: No, no, no ones saying that’s weird and just–


Yasmine Hamady: [indistinct].


Josie Totah: It is just, like, the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard. No I’m kidding. But [laughing] um no, I. 


Yasmine Hamady: Anyways–


Josie Totah: I think that’s beautiful. 


Yasmine Hamady: It’s just whatever it’s gonna–


Josie Totah: And honestly flick on that should be [indistinct]. 


Yasmine Hamady: Josie! Anyways. That’s unhinged. We’ll be right back. [music break]


Josie Totah: Well, guys, that was another amazing conversation. I’m so glad we could catch up. And also, yeah, expect to not hear from me, FYI, for the next several hours because I am in a Roma. Um. But can I just say something? 


Yasmine Hamady: Yeah, go say it. 


Josie Totah: I love you both. 


Yasmine Hamady: Aw Josie. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: We love you. 


Yasmine Hamady: We love you. I love you both so much. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: I love you all. 


Yasmine Hamady: And also like whether Alycia doesn’t reply to me even I even if I’m in the same room as her for another year. Or. Or. Josie. You text me out of nowhere saying I’m here. I know we always have each other because we talk and we communicate. And we we know at the end of the day, we we’re always in each other’s corners. 


Alycia Pascual-Peña: Yes. I’m thankful for our friendship in real life and the real experiences we get to have with each other so guys, be present with the people around you. Show love and don’t be afraid to put that phone down. 


Yasmine Hamady: See you next week. [applause and cheers] [music break]


Josie Totah: Dare We Say is a Crooked Media production. 


Yasmine Hamady: Caroline Reston is our showrunner, producer and Mommy, and Ari Schwartz is our producer and show daddy. Fiona Pestana is our associate producer and Sandy Girard is the Almighty Executive Producer. 


Josie Totah: It’s hosted and produced by me, Josie Totah. 


Yasmine Hamady: And me, Yasmine Hamady.


Alycia Pascual-Peña: And me, Alycia Pascual-Peña. Our engineer and editor is Jordan Cantor. And Brian Vasquez is our theme music composer. Our video producers are Matt DeGroot, Narineh Melkonian, and Delon Villanueva and Mia Kellman. 


Josie Totah: Lastly, thank you to Jordan Silver, Gabriela Leverette, Jesse McLean, Caroline Heywood, Shaina Hortsmann, Deisi Cruz, Danielle Jensen, and Ewa Okulate for marketing the show and making us look so damn good.