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November 21, 2023
Ruined with Alison Leiby and Halle Kiefer

In This Episode

Halle and Alison learn a little about animals and a lot about humans while they ruin Raw.







[theme music]: If scary movies give you dread, keep you up late night in bed. Here’s a podcast that will help ease your mind. We’ll explain the plot real nicely. Then we’ll talk about what’s frightening so you never have to have a spooky time. It’s Ruined.


Halle Kiefer: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Ruined, I’m Halle. 


Alison Leiby: And I’m Alison. 


Halle Kiefer: And this is a horror movie podcast where we ruin a horror movie just for you. 


Alison Leiby: For all of you. Halle, how are you doing? 


Halle Kiefer: Well, I’m a little under the weather. 


Alison Leiby: Oh no. 


Halle Kiefer: So I apologize for how I sound. It’s okay. 


Alison Leiby: Just like general allergies or cold or? 


Halle Kiefer: I’m concerned it’s the flu just because everyone’s getting it. 


Alison Leiby: Did you get your flu shot yet? 


Halle Kiefer: No, because I’m a fucking dumb ass. 


Alison Leiby: I got mine yesterday, which I don’t know if that’s going to help, like for the next few days, which it’s—


Halle Kiefer: I mean, can’t hurt. 


Alison Leiby: It’s going around. 


Halle Kiefer: But yeah, I also didn’t get the Covid booster, so I’m going to test for that. But I’m kind of lucked out. I haven’t been unwell in a while, so. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: I guess I was due for it. Um. 


Alison Leiby: Well. 


Halle Kiefer: How are you doing? 


Alison Leiby: Hang in there. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Thank you. How you hanging out? 


Alison Leiby: Well, I bought clogs. 


Halle Kiefer: Okay, that feels right. 


Alison Leiby: I live Park Slope adjacent in Brooklyn. It was time. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes, we’ve arrived. You’ve got a cat, now you’ve got clogs.


Alison Leiby: Yeah, I’ve got a cat. I live in Brooklyn. I’m a woman who’s rapidly approaching 40 within a few weeks. 


Halle Kiefer: I would say seconds to go. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. So close. So I was like, I think it’s it’s just like in in L.A. this is less of a problem. But like in New York, like there’s kind of not a great shoe in between, like. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. I see what you’re saying. 


Alison Leiby: A sneaker and a boot. 


Halle Kiefer: Mm hmm. 


Alison Leiby: And, like, I love sneakers, and I can wear sneakers, like, most of the time, but it’s not always the look I want. But like, I and I, this is not like my. But like, I wouldn’t say that, like, my back is, like, stellar at bending over. 


Halle Kiefer: Right. 


Alison Leiby: To put on boots like it’s. It’s not that I can’t and it’s not that it’s like getting worse. It’s just like I lost a little bit of motion range in my spinal fusion and it just is uncomfortable. So it’s not and it hasn’t been like so cold in the winter anymore that like, you really need to commit to a big heavy boot. 


Halle Kiefer: I hadn’t thought about that. That’s a really good point. 


Alison Leiby: So like there’s kind of just no shoe. 


Halle Kiefer: Fascinating. 


Alison Leiby: Where you could wear socks and it’s not a sneaker, but it’s not a fancy like it is clogs. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes, that’s a weird in-between. I’m always going to go boot or sneaker. You’re right. 


Alison Leiby: There’s nothing in between them. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, I feel like I was reading this thing and they’re basically like, all jeans are shorter now. Like they’re just cut shorter because Gen Z doesn’t wear heels. And as someone who does like a heeled boot, I do have to you have to buy jeans that a woman who would wear boot would wear, which is specifically Good American. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Or anything the Kardashians make. [laughter] They are made for a woman in a heel. 


Alison Leiby: They’re wearing heeled boot. 


Halle Kiefer: But I like that. But also, like. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m not hoofing it like, you know what I mean, I’m wearing that if I had to, like, walk to work and like, if I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t wear it for that, I would just wear sneakers or put them on. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m a big believer in wearing sneakers to work and putting on shoes there. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Having worked at Viacom. People did it all the time. Like, that’s actually the way to go. 


Alison Leiby: Oh. I remember people when I worked in offices, people just like had shoes at their desk that. 


Halle Kiefer: That’s smart. 


Alison Leiby: Were their work shoes. And you wore sneaks everywhere. 


Halle Kiefer: Very Devil Wears Prada. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, which I’m like, I get it. I did that too. 


Halle Kiefer: But yeah, now that your spine’s all fucked up. Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. And like, with shows in the winter, like I don’t always want like. Anyway, so I, I found a pair of clogs that they’re Swedish, they’re not like one of the, they’re not like No. 6 or Swedish Hasbeens or whatever those other brands are where they have like. They are like a wooden like the bottom. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh okay yes. 


Alison Leiby: Like the sole is wooden, but it has rubber on the bottom like that touches the ground. And then a soft leather footbed in the soles. So like, they’re not it’s not because, like, I’ve always been like, I love the look of some of those clogs, but it’s just like you’re wearing wooded shoes like— [laughs] 


Halle Kiefer: Right. 


Alison Leiby: It doesn’t make sense. 


Halle Kiefer: Well, yeah, it’s like it’s a it’s a cute look. But then in New York, hoofing it in wooden soles, I just. Ah, yeah. I just don’t know. I don’t know. 


Alison Leiby: Running up subway stairs. So these are just like I almost ordered and I think I still might get a pair of just like straight up like Dansko’s  that nurses wear. 


Halle Kiefer: No one could stop you. Alison. Do it. 


Alison Leiby: Nobody could stop me. With like that have a full back. These don’t have a back. And I’m going to see if they’re like, comfortable enough to wear around. 


Halle Kiefer: I like, it more with a back, but only because my feet look like a zombie’s foot. So I need the back of the shoe. 


Alison Leiby: What about a little sock with them. 


Halle Kiefer: A sock. With what kind of sock? 


Alison Leiby: Look, I have a lot of. I’m going to plug my favorite sock brand, Hansel from Basel. Do you know this brand? 


Halle Kiefer: No. 


Alison Leiby: They do a lot of really good. They have really. They have very, like, chic. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh, these are cute. Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: But they have a lot of really good, like, cute socks that, like, are cute without looking like you bought them from a children’s store. Like, I have a pair that has little they’re black and they have little brown dachshunds on them and it’s like, yeah, with black jeans. 


Halle Kiefer: That’s sweet. 


Alison Leiby: And black clogs. Like those are like they’re a thing. 


Halle Kiefer: Now that’s a 40 year old woman living in the Park Slope area baby. 


Alison Leiby: That is a woman who lives in Brooklyn. Anyway, that’s like what’s new with me. So. 


Halle Kiefer: Great. I’m so glad. 


Alison Leiby: I’ll report back when they arrive later today and we’ll be on a clog journey. 


Halle Kiefer: Great. I’m glad I’m still on the hunt for a vinyl trench. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: And now at least the algorithm knows I’m looking. 


Alison Leiby: Okay—


Halle Kiefer: So now it’s serving me at different options. But again, how much? How much money to spend on something I don’t really need. 


Alison Leiby: I think you—


Halle Kiefer: And doesn’t really go with anything I own and may be the start of a sartorial journey I want to go on, but I’m not necessarily ready to commit to right now. 


Alison Leiby: I think like it’s a very like if you build it, they will come kind of thing. Where it’s like—


Halle Kiefer: That’s a really. Really good point.


Alison Leiby: I think that like once you have the trench, you’ll be like, I see what to do with this. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. 


Alison Leiby: But if you’re planning like looking at your wardrobe, being like, how do I fit the trench? Like, you have to have the trench and then you’ll be like, oh, well, now I actually just need like a good black turtleneck. And that’s like, what—


Halle Kiefer: Right. 


Alison Leiby: That. That’s. That’s easy and cheaper to find. 


Halle Kiefer: You’re absolutely right. If they if I trench it, they will come. 


Alison Leiby: If you trench it, they will come. 


Halle Kiefer: And there’s a lot of different great trenches that I know will be about to go on discount because I just don’t think. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: That many people are trying to buy a vinyl trench. Every fucking like. 


Alison Leiby: Also. Yeah. You get—


Halle Kiefer: Everyone has one for some reason. 


Alison Leiby: You get into Thanksgiving and Christmas time. One there’s a bunch of sales, but two like. 


Halle Kiefer: Hell yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Coats start becoming like “old” quote unquote. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. 


Alison Leiby: Because like we’re going to move into like in January, February, spring clothes start being part of the stores and stuff like that. 


Halle Kiefer: Which is so wild. 


Alison Leiby: It’s insane. And I’m like, we just kept doing that, even though that’s not how things work anymore. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, whatever. 


Alison Leiby: But you might be able to find like a good discount on a real nice one in the coming months. 


Halle Kiefer: You’re absolutely right. I just I basically have every department store website up and I just check it. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Because they’re the ones where things go on deep discount. You just, gotta, keep your eyeballs. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Peeled. Speaking of peeling eyeballs. 


Alison Leiby: Ooh. What a segue. 


Halle Kiefer: We are continuing our, our month of, they ate, of course. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: A delicious pun or delicious double entendre? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Delicious and delicious itself being—


Alison Leiby: Delicious being a double entendre. 


Halle Kiefer: And then we go from there. But it is, of course, films about eating, cannibalism, and of course, if somebody ate. And I will say I do think the cast of this movie did eat and this is a film again, I really am very particular about when I watch certain things. And this is a movie where, like, I know I’m going to watch it, but I want to wait until the right mood and then the right mood was, I have to watch a cannibalism movie for that recording. 


Alison Leiby: So you hadn’t seen this? 


Halle Kiefer: No, because I was waiting. I always do this like I was waiting for the right time and I was like, well, the right time is now. So. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, it’s like the movie you want to watch is available. Watch it. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. And this is the movie is 2016’s Raw, which is a French film directed by oh God, I really apologize. Written and directed by a woman—


Alison Leiby: We got a great comment.


Halle Kiefer: I owe an apology to. Wait what is it?


Alison Leiby: We got a great comment on Instagram from somebody who shared what as we’re recording was a recent episode. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh, God. 


Alison Leiby: Who was like, oh, I love when Halle struggles to pronounce French names. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m so sorry. 


Alison Leiby: And then Alison doesn’t help her. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Oh, yeah. No, you you just sit there and watch me struggle. 


Alison Leiby: I just let you do it. Whatever. However it comes out of your mouth is how we’ll do it on the pod. 


Halle Kiefer: Right? And these are all actually how the French pronounce it. So this movie was, of course, written and directed by Julia Ducournau. I’m going to go say that. And it stars two gals. One is. Oh, my God, Garance Marillier I’m going to say. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: She’s fabulous. And then Ella Rumpf, I got that one. 


Alison Leiby: Rumpf. 


Halle Kiefer: And everyone in this film is phenomenal. It is, of course, a coming of age cannibalism movie. And you could assume that from the from the title, the theme for this month. But also, Alison, I’m assuming you know that because you watched the trailer. We always like to have Alison watch the trailer. Give us her thoughts. Alison, what did you think of the raw trailer? 


Alison Leiby: I remember like watching this trailer and like on like Vulture when it came out and everybody was talking about it and I was like, okay. I was like at my desk working at like some job. And I remember seeing this trailer and being like, Hey. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, it’s I really enjoyed it. I have the same experience. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t like it. [laughs] I do not like it.


Halle Kiefer: Are there any visuals that sort of come to mind is like the immediately the most horrifying visuals? 


Alison Leiby: Well, there’s one that’s really just like hitting close to home right now because, like, the skin rash. Is obvious. Like. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Listeners of the pod will know I was dealing with a little bit of a skin issue recently, and it’s still a little dry and I’m still like putting stuff on it. So I’m just like, oh, no, am I a cannibal now? 


Halle Kiefer: Well, have you eaten any raw rabbit hearts or rabbit kidneys any time recently? 


Alison Leiby: No. Yeah. I also didn’t like at whatever that ceremony is, when someone just put something in her mouth to eat like that’s just—


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, a lot of that. And again. 


Alison Leiby: That sucks. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m not saying this is what France is. There are certain elements of this movie where I’m like,  well, this is what I think France is. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: This seems about of a piece and we always like to take a baseline scary for Alison. Alison. 


Alison Leiby: Oh no. 


Halle Kiefer: How scary do you find the concept of craving human flesh? 


Alison Leiby: I mean, very. 


Halle Kiefer: Mm hmm. 


Alison Leiby: Not in, not in the way that I’m like afraid that’s going to happen to me. But it does feel like one of those things where it’s like, if that is happening to you, there is no other way out. Like you’re like.


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: It feels like it’s like if there is a deep desire within you to consume human flesh, like that’s not like you’re not going to get by with like an impossible burger. 


Halle Kiefer: Exactly yeah. Or a dog.


Alison Leiby: Nothing’s going to cut it. Like, you’re going to have to feed that or you’re going to have to die. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, absolutely. This reminds me of the It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode where they think that they did become cannibals but really they just got a parasite from eating. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. Raccoon. 


Halle Kiefer: Spoiled, I believe raccoon meat. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, I think it’s raccoon. So funny.


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, I feel like the idea isn’t itself that scary, but because it just happens so infrequently, of all the things that people crave, human flesh does not come up a lot. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: But this movie does sort of traffic in this idea, sort of like oh if a dog bites a human. It’s permanently dangerous because it’ll have a taste for human flesh. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: And it’s like, is this the Middle Ages? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Is our understanding of this is so primitive? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, well, that’s like the runner in Arrested Development that the seal bit off Buster’s hand and got it because I got a taste for human flesh from somebody like from Gob I think. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Well that’s funny. Well, and then finally we always like to have Alice and guess the twist based on our brief conversation and on the trailer. Alison, would you like to guess the twist in 2016’s Raw? 


[voice over]: Guess the twist. 


Alison Leiby: Okay, I’m going to guess that the girl is. She’s in veterinary school. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. Yes. 


Alison Leiby: I’m going to guess. 


Halle Kiefer: First year in veterinarian school. 


Alison Leiby: I’m going to guess that, like, what looks like veterinary school is actually a cult. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh okay. 


Alison Leiby: That she has unwillingly had to join. And she thinks she’s going through this alone. But like, actually, this is just like you’re a chosen one and like, you get to be a part of it. Like this is intentional. 


Halle Kiefer: Okay, great. 


Alison Leiby: From the organization that she’s a part of. 


Halle Kiefer: I think that that’s that’s an excellent guess, Alison. 




Halle Kiefer: Let us begin ruining Raw. So we open on a long country road with a young woman. Excuse me. A young woman walking towards us. And then a car as it goes by, drives sort of, is driving parallel to her. As the car passes, she darts in front of the car, basically dives in front of the car, forcing it to veer and slam into a tree. And then, as you know, as the dust settles, the woman walks over to the driver’s side door and opens it. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: We now join our main character, Justine. She’s eating at sort of a, I would say, the French version of Hometown Buffet. 


Alison Leiby: Sure. 


Halle Kiefer: So it’s sort of like cafeteria style, and they serve you food onto a plate. And she’s just gets a big plate of mashed potatoes, which look delicious. 


Alison Leiby: I mean, I’ve been really craving mashed potatoes lately. 


Halle Kiefer: Fuck. I don’t know that there’s a chill in the air. It’s mashed potato weather baby. 


Alison Leiby: It is mashed potato weather. 


Halle Kiefer: And because she does not eat meat, they ask, oh, do you want meat? And she said, Nope, I don’t eat it. She’s eating with her parents. And when she looks down, she tastes something. There’s a big old meatball hiding in the mashed potatoes. How’d that happen? I don’t know. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: And her mom flips out. They’re all vegetarians. 


Alison Leiby: I’d be pissed. Because it’s, like, now less mashed potatoes. 


Halle Kiefer: Right. Also, I just don’t think a meatball will be fully hidden by the mashed potatoes, but we’ll allow it.


Alison Leiby: That’s a lot of mashed potatoes. 


Halle Kiefer: And it is. It is like a plate full. Not any kind of other vegetables, just a plate full of mashed potatoes. My mouth is filling with saliva. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah mine is too. I really want some mashed potatoes. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: And so her mom flips out they’re all vegetarian, storms over to the cook and was like, We are vegetarians. What if she had been allergic? You people are sloppy. To be fair, it’s like a roadside buffet. Like this is like not. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s like a diner. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s like, ma’am, we’re sorry. 


Alison Leiby: We’re doing our best. 


Halle Kiefer: We were at a French truck side diner. I don’t know what you expect from us. But Alison, they are driving Justine to her first year of veterinary school, and we find out that her older sister, Alexia, who they call Alex, is a student a year or two older than her. So. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: Kind of already been through it, of course, where they go to drop off Justine Alex is not picking up her phone. The mom is pissed. The dad’s like, It’s fine, she’ll be fine. They have everything set up for you. So she takes out her bag. And her mom was like, We can’t just leave Juju here. But of course, in the end the parents let her go and we see Justine enter a new chapter of her life, walking with her luggage into the dorm. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: And that night she’s asleep. You know, it’s basically like laid out, like there’s two bedrooms and like a little common area and somebody busts into her room for the common area and it’s a super hot ass shirtless guy. This guy is her roommate, Adrien. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: And she’s like, excuse me, I asked for I asked for a girl roommate. And he, of course, doesn’t say he uses a different word, but he’s like, oh, they give you a gay guy. It’s the same difference to them. So like, he’s like, oh, no, no, I’m a girl. Don’t worry. I’m a gay guy. 


Alison Leiby: It’s like, okay. 


Halle Kiefer: But also he’s like insanely hot. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: So I think for her, she’s immediately like, uh oh. However, she doesn’t have time to think about that because in hall, we hear whole drunk, loud singing it is first your orientation or at Notre Dame when I went through this, Frosh-O. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: Which just means a week of heavy drinking. And he’s hazing. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Did you have that at college? 


Alison Leiby: We didn’t have like. Hazing, like hazing was for cause like there was Greek life at Cornell. So like, there were like that was kind of the the job of the fraternities and sororities. But it was like a week of just like, well, you’re here get alcoholism. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Yes, I was at Notre Dame. Like we had to, like, get up early and run or like do sing songs and do dumb stuff. 


Alison Leiby: Oh. 


Halle Kiefer: But it really was mostly drinking as many beers as you possibly can. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And that’s why I don’t like beers anymore, because the part of my brain that may have enjoyed a beer has been drowned in a sea of Natty Light. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. Yeah. Bad beer. 


Halle Kiefer: Oof, woof. 


Alison Leiby: Woof. 


Halle Kiefer: I remember drinking seven Natty Light’s like that my first day of drinking. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. Milwaukee’s best. 


Halle Kiefer: Awful. Wait say it again? 


Alison Leiby: Milwaukee’s best. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh, interesting. Okay. I feel like we had Miller. Miller, Miller High Life. 


Alison Leiby: Miller High. High Life I don’t mind. I’ll have a High Life here and—


Halle Kiefer: I don’t mind a High Life either. 


Alison Leiby: No but like. 


Halle Kiefer: Ooh Natty Light. Natty Light. Ugh. So all of a sudden we have a group of older students, all boys in ski masks busts in and they take both Adrien and Justine’s mattress off their bed and throw them out the window. 


Alison Leiby: It’s like. 


Halle Kiefer: And unfortunately, Adrien and Justine, just who are just like, Adrien’s in, like. Like pajama pants and Justine’s in like, a tank top and no bra and her underwear. Force them down the hallway where there’s a bunch of other freshmen also in their PJs and no and underwear standing, stupefied because it’s like two in the morning and then the hazing can begin. And they basically are force all these groups of first years into an elevator and take them outside and make them walk on their hands and knees. It’s a beautiful shot. It’s like a crowd of these young people like walking into the light and out of the light as animals. And obviously, because they’re in veterinary school, we’re going to be using a lot of animal imagery. But it’s a beautiful shot. And he finds Adrien. She finds Adrien again, is like, it’s just a game. What’s the worst that could happen? It’s fine. Just send the older students, get them up and they open sort of like what looks like the basement of like a different building and they are partying inside. So it’s a huge party. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: All the other students from the school are there and they are already drunk. We see two girls. They take the tops off. A girl and a guy are making out they’re doing Molly, someone has a vodka water gun. Everyone’s having the time of their life except for Justine, who’s extremely overwhelmed and panicked. And—


Alison Leiby: I would be overwhelmed and panicked. I would end up partying just to be like, yeah, I guess, we’re here. But like, it would be an overwhelming and panic inducing moment. 


Halle Kiefer: I’d also be like, I’m not wearing pants. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m not dressed for the occasion. And she goes to talk to Adrien, but that he just starts making out with some guy that he’s talking to and so she’s wandering around. I think the idea is like she’s like this. She’s incredibly intelligent. She’s very socially awkward. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Her sister is also extremely smart. And I think based on her interaction with her parents, you know, kind of sheltered in a lot of ways. And now this is her first introduction is like, you will be drinking, you will be fucking. You don’t know these people. People are drunk and falling down. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: And luckily, she runs into her sister, Alex, who is also drunk but is happy to see Justine. And she says, Here, come with me. And they sneak out of the party and into like one of the actual school building. So the whole school is on on the property of a hospital and so there’s also a morgue, there’s dorms, and then there’s like actual classroom buildings with like an auditorium and stuff. So it’s a full campus of different veterinary related medical. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Training and programs. So they sneak in to the other room and they’re in one of the labs and we see like a bunch of preserved animals in formaldehyde and they make it into a hallway was framed photos of each class at the end during their Frosh-O and they’re all covered in animal blood. Alison. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: And they find the one where their mom and dad are in it because their mom and dad also are veterinarians. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: And they went here and they met while they were in school. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. So the family business. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. And the implication is that mom and dad actually met during their orientation as well. So it’s kind of like a family tradition, like, oh, it’s going to be fun. And Justine says, I’m going to go to bed. But Alex says, No, no. The rookies, first years, don’t go to bed before us. You are going to be out. We also see that Alex has a dog with her dog named Quicky, which I think is like so like, I don’t know any I guess if people lived off campus, they would have cats or dogs. But to have a dog in a dorm as an American. 


Alison Leiby: I didn’t know a single person in college that had a pet and I lived my house my house one year was next door to the vet frat. So. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, I don’t think that most colleges should have a pet. I think it’s actually healthier for the pet to not be there. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, a pet is better off anywhere else. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. Also, she brought the dog, Quicky to the party, which I also like. A dog does not want a big party like that because someone’s going to step on it’s little foot. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: So Justine’s able to go home and go to sleep and but and only. Wakes up when Adrien sneaks a guy into his room and she hears him in the middle room being like, Be quiet. My roommate’s asleep. And school begins. Alison. 


Alison Leiby: Wow. 


Halle Kiefer: And the implication is that all of this takes part over one week, which is insane. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. 


Halle Kiefer: So the first I guess the first day, of Horse 101 they she watches with the other students. They give the horse ketamine and they use a jaw separator. 


Alison Leiby: Fun. 


Halle Kiefer: To put a tool down, tube down, it’s throat. And they use like a big motorized winch to lift it up onto a platform in case you need surgery or whatever. I’m like, oh, this is useful to know. You’d have to learn all this other stuff. Not simply—


Alison Leiby: Yeah, right. Before you can do the surgery [both speaking] you need to know how to get the horse. Like. 


Halle Kiefer: Exactly. 


Alison Leiby: Large animal medicine is wild. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, there’s a lot of, like, imagery of horses in this. And cows, too. And they’re so beautiful. I grew up with horses. Like, I grew up in a rural area, so, like, everyone had a horse. Like it was not an unusual thing. And they are so beautiful and so smart. And I don’t know. 


Alison Leiby: Terrifying. 


Halle Kiefer: Every time I see a horse. I want to be near a horse. I’d like to go. I don’t want to be a horseback rider. I want to, like, go just pet one you know what I mean. 


Alison Leiby: I want to be as far away from a horse as I can be. 


Halle Kiefer: There. But they got those big teeth. Alison. Those big eyes. 


Alison Leiby: They’re so big. 


Halle Kiefer: Look right through you. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. It’s an old Seinfeld bit where he is like, Why are cops on horses? Like, how are you saving anybody when you’re on top of a glassy eyed, jittery dinosaur. [laughter]


Halle Kiefer: That’s very funny. 


Alison Leiby: Which is what I think of horses. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, you’re not wrong. But they’re also so sweet. 


Alison Leiby: I like cows. 


Halle Kiefer: So they’re. They’re watching. And the later we see the older students have, like, lab coats that all have like, over time, like they’ve signed each other, they’ve drawn drawings on it. Like there’s like, you know, different, like sketches. And then the first year they have like, pristine white lab coats, so on to the next stage of hazing, which is they all have to take a photo. So they stand there and right before the photo, they dump gallons of blood on them. So now they have—


Alison Leiby: This is all. This is quote unquote, “animal?”


Halle Kiefer: Well, you know, it doesn’t it implies based on the context of what happens I believe it is animal. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: So I think these this is animal blood. 


Alison Leiby: I’m not going to assume it’s human blood, but it’s like, is it a speci— It’s just like this was all leftover? Like. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Alison a lot of things happen in this movie that I said I would. I would say, No, thank you. I refuse. 


Alison Leiby: Mm. Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: I don’t want to get animal blood in my mucous membranes. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: I want to get it in my eyes, my nose, my mouth. 


Alison Leiby: It feels like no one should know how bad that is. More that veterinary like students. 


Halle Kiefer: And I guess the idea is like they’re putting them through their paces. So it’s like you’re not going to flinch at anything you have to do here. 


Alison Leiby: I guess. 


Halle Kiefer: And that is the path that Justine takes. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: So yeah, so the older students says basically this is the beginning of first, the first week, this is rush week, but also it’s not really a frat. So you can’t like rush, you can’t fail. You know, you’re just like. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m going to be hazing you for a week and then at the end of it, you’re going to hear this. And they they blow and air horn three times. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: So when you hear that, that means rush week is over and you are officially students here and we respect you. 


[clip from Raw]: [chanting in French]


Halle Kiefer: And then all everyone has all the first years have to get line and each of them have to eat a rabbit, a raw rabbit kidney where they got all these rabbit kidneys? Alison, I don’t know. It’s France. They’re just lying around. 


Alison Leiby: Well they eat rabbit in France. So, like, I would imagine you could just. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. Have you ever had a kidney? 


Alison Leiby: I’ve eaten rabbit, but I haven’t had a kidney. 


Halle Kiefer: I’ve had kidney. I’ve had both. I’ve had rabbit and kidney. I don’t think I ever had a rabbit’s kidney. 


Alison Leiby: There used to be a great rabbit dish at the old Kefi on the Upper West Side. 


Halle Kiefer: Um, I’ve only had rabbit once or twice and I found it too salty. 


Alison Leiby: Hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: Or maybe that was just how it was made. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Um. 


Alison Leiby: No. I haven’t eaten a kidney, I don’t think. 


Halle Kiefer: What kind of—


Alison Leiby: Although I’m not opposed to, like, different kinds of awful like. 


Halle Kiefer: It must have been a. Okay. 


Alison Leiby: I’ll. I’ll try an organ. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. I’ve had liver it was worth a shot. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah I like liver. 


Halle Kiefer: Again, wouldn’t order it, probably would rush out but, you know, we’re eating every other part of it. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: It seems rude not to try it. Uh, Justine of course refuses the kidney and says I’m a vegetarian. My family’s vegetarian. My sister is too. And then Alex moves over and says, Grow up. You’re in college now stop being such a fucking baby. And basically forces it into her mouth. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t like that. 


Halle Kiefer: Adrien’s, of course, in line with her and he kind of walks over to Justine and Justine immediately  pukes like next to the line. Later at lunch. They’re also still covered in blood too, so like, they’re covered in blood for the rest of the day and they just have to wear it. And I guess just all the instructors are used to this, which is insane. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, I don’t like that. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. And a guy’s rambling to Justine and Adrien about the theory that humans contracted HIV from having sex with monkeys, which they’ve disproven that like. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: There’s a million way ways you contract things from animals, and having sex with them is pretty far down the list. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Of how you get in contact with the fluids. And then he says, if a guy wanted to fuck a monkey, should he use a condom? It’s like well, based on the thesis of your of your argument, of course. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: If you think that that’s how people got HIV, well, then, yes, of course you should use a condom. 


Alison Leiby: Then yes. 


Halle Kiefer: What kind of fucking question is that? 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: That’s what I think, France is. Unfortunately, I don’t know what the why, but I’m like, that’s. I don’t like that question. 


Alison Leiby: No, I don’t. I don’t either. 


Halle Kiefer: Use a condom when you can, you know. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Try to use a condom when you can. And if you’re having sex with a monkey, I guess. Stop. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. Stop. 


Halle Kiefer: But they get into this larger conversation, which about whether. Whether you can rape a monkey. 


Alison Leiby: Jesus. 


Halle Kiefer: And Adrien’s like, I don’t know, it’s not a person and Justine’s like animals have rights. A monkey that is raped would suffer like a woman who was raped. I don’t know why we’re arguing this. And this girl, there’s other girls like, Oh, okay. So a raped monkey is the same as a raped woman. And it’s like, what kind of I guess this is college. Like, you’re just. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: What are we talking about? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Justine says, Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: College students like kind of young people without too much experience of the world. Like, you could see them, like trying to just, like, theoreticize. 


Halle Kiefer: Right. 


Alison Leiby: And understand and kind of, like, make. But it’s just like, oh boy, I never want to hear one of those conversations again. 


Halle Kiefer: Hell no. But she’s like, yeah, they are the same and everyone looks at her weird. She’s like, We’re in veterinary school. Like if you don’t respect animals or think they have like, sentient. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Feelings and rights, then what the fuck are you doing here? 


Alison Leiby: Consciousness, yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Which I think is a good point. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: And later in class, she and Adrien, because they kind of just become best buds. So he kind of tries to look at her quiz and she covers it up with her arm. He’s like, oh my God, nerd alert. You know? However, when she turns in her paper, the professor who looks exactly like a French professor, what I imagine a French professor look like. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Which is like a French Einstein. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: And he’s like, oh, Justine, you know, your reputation precedes you. You got some big shoes to fill because of your sister. And he looks at her quiz and he goes, I already see a mistake and he’s so thrilled that she fucked up. It’s like ew. But I do like the professors. Like everyone is a little weird character in this. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: If that makes sense. 


Alison Leiby: I like that. 


Halle Kiefer: Like, no one is completely normal. And I like there to be a professor, and he’s an asshole from the jump. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Alison that night, Justine skin breaks on a horrible rash all over her torso and her legs, and she’s kind of scratching it. She has the lights off and then she turns on the light. She pulls up her shirt. It is like ripped open, flesh like all all down her thighs, up her torso. And she screams because it’s so upsetting and disgusting. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And Adrien, we hear him knock on the door is like, Are you okay? She’s like, I’m fine, I’m fine, but it’s rank. It’s like she keeps scratching it and like ripping it open with her nails and it just dried dead skin flaking off. And we hear her stomach start gurgling and she falls asleep finally. And she dreams of a horse running on a treadmill, a beautiful horse. 


Alison Leiby: Working out. 


Halle Kiefer: Getting it’s steps in. 


Alison Leiby: Keeping it tight. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: It’s easy to get your steps in when you have twice as many feet. 


Alison Leiby: This is very true. 


Halle Kiefer: That’s what I always say. The next day, Justine goes to the university nurse who’s like, All right, ladies let’s take a look here. Oh, my God. Like, she’s a good lord girl. [laughter] And so she asks her questions, including, are you sexually active? And Justine says, no, I’ve never actually had sex. And after just examining her disgusting stomach, the nurse informs her, you know, this was like a food allergy. Have you eaten anything weird recently? And she goes, Well, now that you mention it. I did eat a raw rabbit kidney. And the nurse is like, What are you doing? What do you kids doing? Like, if somebody asks, you to do that you just did it? And she says, Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. Well, it was forced into her mouth. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. And but it also was peer pressure and it was her own sister, which like I guess if that, that— 


Alison Leiby: Of all the, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the nurse gives her a topical cream says use it three times a day and then says if you can I would fast the rest of the day because that’s the easiest way to just clear it out of your system like just don’t eat. But Justine says, honestly, I’m so hungry, I don’t know if I could do that. I’m hungry all the time. 


Halle Kiefer: Uh oh. 


Alison Leiby: There’s also some business with like, fat people in this movie that I’m not exactly sure as an American, as an American, where we have a lot of fat people, I wasn’t sure where we were going with this. And the nurse tells the story about this fat patient who came in and burst into tears because this nurse was the first person who ever didn’t make a big deal about her weight. And this girl, had been told over and over again by this other staff like, You’re too fat. We can’t find the vein in your arms. And then this nurse was able to fight it immediately. And so she just was like so grateful. And Justine says, That’s horrible. Like, why didn’t she report that, like, the no medical person should be doing that? And nurse says, well, because she wanted to seem normal, she wanted to seem average. She didn’t want to make a big deal about it. And she asked Justine, How do you see yourself? And Justine says, Average. Justine rushes to class and runs into an older classmate who they’re called elders. But it’s like any of the older classmates could just like punish you for not abiding by the rules of the of rush. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: So apparently today everyone’s supposed to be wear club clothes and she’s like girls have to wear something sexy not just a T-shirt with sequins. And Justine says but that’s all I have which I think is very funny. And so as a result the elder student makes just being put an adult diaper over her clothes and makes Justine late for class, which is a cow ultrasound demonstration, which also is interesting. 


Alison Leiby: I mean, they really hit the ground running in vet school. 


Halle Kiefer: And also the other the cow and horse budget in this. 


Alison Leiby: My God. 


Halle Kiefer: You know I again I they probably got funding from the country, from the government, the way the art should be made. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Back in Alex’s room, we see Justine visiting her to find some club clothes because she doesn’t have any. And we see that Alex is she has a graded quiz. And it’s kind of all marked out with corrections that she has to fix. And so Justine starts making the corrections. And she chews Alex out for making her eat the rabbit kidney because now she has this horrible rash and how disgusting it is. And her sister kind of just clowns on her, but she gives her some like a dress and some heels. And because Justine is so fucking awkward, she wears the dress over her sweatshirt and jeans and then just puts the heels on and it’s like, well, girl, now you’re like, making yourself stand out. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, people are going to, like, bother you about that. 


Halle Kiefer: It has, it’s very homeschooled to me. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: When she gets back to her dorm, she sees the elder students have thrown all of their mattresses out the window again. 


Alison Leiby: I’d be like, I just want a lie down. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah for God’s— Like this is the second day of school, please. And she has to drag it upstairs. She can’t catch a break. And when she goes, she inadvertently walks in she goes to Adrien. She’s like, Oh, can you help with my mattress? And she opens the door and a guy is just sucking his dick and he goes, Uh, and then she closes the door and she hears him go. 


Alison Leiby: Good for him. 


Halle Kiefer: Don’t stop. So then she kind of has to like wait for him. That was just classic, you know, college stuff. And the next day we see Justine, Justine again loading up her plate with mashed potatoes and vegetables. And Adrien, obviously, because he works out, is just eating three hamburger patties, which also look delicious. 


Alison Leiby: I mean, a well, a well-timed hamburger really hits the spot. 


Halle Kiefer: I’ve been eating turkey burgers at 5 a.m. It’s. 


Alison Leiby: Oh okay. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s makes me so happy. I love. 


Alison Leiby: Glad. 


Halle Kiefer: A burger at dawn. That’s what I, that where I’m on. [laughter]


Alison Leiby: A burger at dawn. 


Halle Kiefer: And Justine sees that and like you could tell her mouth is watering. And so she goes to pocket a patty and she just two weird things. One, she reaches in with her hand. There’s like the little tongs. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: She reaches into the burgers and picks a burger from underneath, which I’m like that is, who’s ever done that? 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: With their hand. 


Alison Leiby: With your. You’re just touching so many of them. 


Halle Kiefer: And then she pockets the patty. She puts it in the pocket of her lab coat. 


Alison Leiby: Patty pocket. 


Halle Kiefer: I’m like you just were at a cow ultrasound. I wouldn’t have put a hamburger in the pocket of my lab coat. 


Alison Leiby: No. [laughter]


Halle Kiefer: And then humiliatingly. So she, Adrien pays. Then she goes to pay. And the cashier is like, what did you put in your pocket? 


Alison Leiby: Loose meat. 


Halle Kiefer: And immediately calls her out. [laughter] And Adrien like can see is like, I’ll pay for it. Don’t worry about it. And the cashier is like I need to see it so I can ring it up, take it out. Take the patty out of your pocket like humiliating her in front of everybody. To be fair it was a weird move. And also,  like what? [laughter] So she pays for it. She’s like, sorry, it’s in my pocket. It’s a patty. She pays for it, and then she throws it away. And Adrien’s like, What are you doing? Who cares? It’s like, just buy a hamburger. And Justine’s like. I know. I don’t know why I care. I’ve just always been a vegetarian. I don’t know why I did that. But, you know, a funny moment. And then that night, they go to. They go on the bus. I’m assuming there’s a city or town nearby. We don’t see them actually there, but they’re taking the bus there. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And they’re like, oh, we’re going to get so drunk we’re going to party. And as they drive, they pass the cat, the crash site from the beginning. And so now we’re now up to that point. So apparently that happened this day because when they drive past, the car is still there and they are loading a a body into an ambulance and the body’s head is all bloody. So we just see the body is covered in the sheet with the bloody head hanging out. 


Alison Leiby: Hate that. Hate that. 


Halle Kiefer: That night they take the bus back and the bus stops again at a roadside stand, which this one has shawarma, which sounds fucking delicious. And a trucker comes to hit on Adrien and just genuinely menace them. And he’s talking about like, Oh, I have a pig in the cab of my truck and we swap blood back and forth. 


Alison Leiby: What? [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: You know, like France is a crazy place I’ll tell you what. 


Alison Leiby: Weird. 


Halle Kiefer: But I think he’s both. I think he’s like just intentionally being menacing. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. Yeah.


Halle Kiefer: Because they’re like young and hot. And even he stops talking when he sees, like, Justine is just chowing down her shawarma. Like she’s just eating so much meat really fast. And it kind of makes these like, Oh, I’m going to head out—


Alison Leiby: That would be upsetting. 


Halle Kiefer: —I’m a fucking freak. I am the weirdest trucker on the planet even I think this is too much girl. Then in like the early morning, Adrien wakes up to find Justine like hunched in front of the refrigerator, he’s like, What you doing, girl? How you doing over here? And she says, I’m getting milk for my cereal. And he goes, okay. And he goes back to bed. She’s of course not Alison. She’s biting into a raw chicken breast. 


Alison Leiby: Oh. 


Halle Kiefer: Which does seem to hit. She looks ecstatic. 


Alison Leiby: Like chowing down on shawarma, eating a loose hamburger patty like these things all makes sense to me. Like. 


Halle Kiefer: We’ve all done. We’ve all done them. 


Alison Leiby: Raw chicken is. 


Halle Kiefer: Of I would eat a raw steak or raw. I would eat raw, raw ground meat before biting into a raw chicken. 


Alison Leiby: Agreed. 


Halle Kiefer: If just the feel of it on your teeth seems. 


Alison Leiby: No. I don’t even like cutting it. 


Halle Kiefer: The next day. The perfect the French professor calls her in and is like either you or your friend cheated. And I know students like you. You’re think you’re a wunderkind. You make me sick. Other you actually demoralize and drive down other students. Other students would rather like drop out than be compared to you. And your friend had to fight to be here. But you you just waltz in and it’s like, what is happening?


Alison Leiby: What is happening? What’s this tude? 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah why are you going so fucking hard? In the end, however he’s like, So which on of you cheated? She says the truth, which is Adrien. And then Alison. I almost puked this scene. I even talking about it. Oof, hang on. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. Oh, God, I’m so nervous. I don’t. Oh, God. 


Halle Kiefer: I have not since we’ve started. Had to genuinely like I had to, like, put my hand in front of the screen. 


Alison Leiby: Wow. 


Halle Kiefer: So I couldn’t see all of it. It’s not that it was scary. It was disgusting. 


Alison Leiby: Disgusting. 


Halle Kiefer: So she goes to vomit up her, well I was was like, Oh, she’s going to vomit the chicken breasts. It makes sense. Alison she starts gagging and vomiting up long matted tangles of human hair. I almost fucking it was a and it’s such a long scene, too. 


Alison Leiby: I. 


Halle Kiefer: And she just, like, retching and pulling it out. I was like. And I gagged looking at it I almost vomited. 


Alison Leiby: Blah, blah, blah. 


Halle Kiefer: And then. 


Alison Leiby: Oh my God. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. 


Alison Leiby: Yuck. 


Halle Kiefer: And then that brings me to my first question Alison, What would you do?


[voice over]: What would you do? 


Alison Leiby: I’d kill myself. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. No, I would die. 


Alison Leiby: You can’t come back. 


Halle Kiefer: I would just lay down on the floor of the bathroom and fucking die. 


Alison Leiby: From that. Knowing that. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Like, even if, like, magically, after that, you were. Your health was intact and you were fine. And, like, I just couldn’t ever come back from knowing that happened to me. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah no. 


Alison Leiby: It would haunt my dreams in a way that I would never recover. So I would wrap it up. 


Halle Kiefer: Couldn’t agree more. 




Halle Kiefer: Justine instead chooses to go on and this another, she like goes up to wash your hands. And we see a fat girl say to her, like, two fingers will help it come up easier and Justine sort of like nods and leaves. And then the girl that like, smiles, like does her hair in the mirror. I’m like, What is the fat part of this? I like I don’t. I don’t know. 


Alison Leiby: That doesn’t make any sense. That’s a France thing. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, because I was like, Jesse and her sister aren’t fat. Like, no one none of the main characters are fat. I wasn’t sure. That seems like a France thing. Needless to say it is coming to the point in time where Justine needs to go see her sister. However, they don’t clearly have. They are very in each other’s face all the time. So she doesn’t immediately tell her sister, Hey, by the way, I’ve been eating raw chicken meat and. 


Alison Leiby: Yes of course. 


Halle Kiefer: Vomiting up hair. She just hangs out with her, you know, and they go and drink on the roof. And her sister shows her, you know, if you pee hard enough, you can actually pee standing up and her sister, like, pulls down her pants on the roof and pees. And like the force of her pee, it shoots out straight, which I think you could do, but then Justine does it and she just pees all over herself. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, that would take practice. 


Halle Kiefer: I think you have to have the velocity. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. Not the first time out. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: And also, why doesn’t come up a lot, you know. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: But they’re laughing and having fun. 


Alison Leiby: You don’t have to. We have toilets. 


Halle Kiefer: Right? And that’s what having fun in France is. You know what I mean? Having a pissing contest. And they go back down into her sister’s room and she’s like, Can I sleep over in your room? I just don’t want to be alone. She’s like, Oh, fine. But then as soon as they’re there in the room brushing their teeth, her sister starts immediately grooming her and critiquing her like plucking her eyebrows, criticizing her for having armpit hair. She’s like you know when I was your age, I started giving myself Brazilian waxes. Your bush is out of control. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t want to do that. To myself?


Halle Kiefer: No. And I’m just, you know, in case you’re someone listening to this, you’re like, I’d like to maybe get a Brazilian or get waxed. Go pay someone to do it. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: I cannot stress I’ve tried myself. I have friends. You will end up sobbing in your bathroom, your a gigantic piece of wax stuck to your pubes. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: You are unable to get off. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: And the whole thing’s going to look like hell anyways. 


Alison Leiby: Yes, right. It’s going to be painful. It’s going to be emotionally torturous. And like you’re also that you’re not going to have the result that you would get by. 


Halle Kiefer: No. 


Alison Leiby: Just paying a professional just pay a professional. 


Halle Kiefer: The professionals do it day in, day out. 


Alison Leiby: That is their job. 


Halle Kiefer: Just it’s like you could do it at home. I’m not saying don’t. I’m saying like this to me even more. Cut your hair at home, dye your hair at home, anything else. Do your nails at home. 


Alison Leiby: Not ripping things out of your skin. 


Halle Kiefer: No, no, no, no, no. 


Alison Leiby: And also, like, there’s no part of me that’s. That’s prepared. Kind of like social emotionally to, like, go to the E.R. with a problem for that. 


Halle Kiefer: 100%. 


Alison Leiby: And you might have to. 


Halle Kiefer: Absolutely. So her sister was like, I’m going to wax you. And she has so Justine’s in underwear. She’s basically just waxing like, you know, your pubes that grow down your legs. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And so she’s sort of like she’s like, just lay down there and Justine of course, hasn’t done this before so she’s panicking and she’s like, This is going to hurt it’s going to hurt really bad. And her sister is like, you have to grow up. And when she goes, she waxes like both of Justine’s inner legs. 


[clip from Raw]: [speaking in French]


Halle Kiefer: It’s painful. Justine’s like, this is torture. I want it to stop. She’s like, let me just do your stomach. And then when she goes to her stomach, it gets, like, caught in the top of her pubes and she can’t get it off. Because if you’ve ever been waxed, if your hair’s too long, it’s so much more excruciating. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: That’s why it has to be pretty short. 


Alison Leiby: Trimmed first. 


Halle Kiefer: And she’s just pulling these her pubes, which are like long. So it’s like not it’s like ripping her off. It’s. It’s like not coming apart. It’s like pulling all the hair out it’s awful. So Justine’s panicking. And she was like, Please stop. I don’t know what to do. Also, the sequence is really well done because like, you feel like something’s about to happen in the way they laid out, like this is how this could happen. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: So their dog also keeps running over. 


Alison Leiby: Oh my God. 


Halle Kiefer: And like putting his head in between her legs, like, to see what’s going on, like running over, like wanting to be involved, like dogs do. And so Justine has to keep pushing him away. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And her sister goes and gets scissors to cut her pubes to cut the wax off. And as Justin’s like, panicking and pushing the dog away, and she’s like, You’re going to circumcise me. Don’t bring those big scissors near me. Your hands are shaking. And she sits up really fast and knocks the scissors out of her sister’s hand and the scissors cut off the middle finger of Alex’s other hand. 


Alison Leiby: Ugh. 


Halle Kiefer: Just like after the top, after the bottom. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Knuckle. And they’re both standing there, sitting there, terrified. And Alex just lifts up her hand and passes out from shock. 


Alison Leiby: Yes, of course. 


Halle Kiefer: So Justine does the right thing immediately calls for help. They tell her we’ll be there in 15 minutes. Puts if you have some ice, put it on ice, put it in the fridge or the freezer. Alex runs over and the fridge fridge is unplugged and there’s nothing in it Alison. 


Alison Leiby: What I don’t—


Halle Kiefer: Which is a cue for, you know what’s going to happen later. When you go to someone’s house and the fridge is not empty but. 


Alison Leiby: Unplugged. 


Halle Kiefer: Unplugged. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: They’re never. 


Alison Leiby: Bad hosts. 


Halle Kiefer: They’re not keeping food in there, right? They’re not keep snacks in there for other people. Just rude. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Unfortunately Alison. That means she’s just sitting there. Her sister passed out waiting for paramedics. 


Alison Leiby: Holding a loose finger. 


Halle Kiefer: With a finger. We see her, she starts to consider it Alison, and she goes and she lifts the finger  closer to her mouth and she opens it up, she takes a little nibble, she just takes a little nibble of the cut end. And Alison that shit hits. 


Alison Leiby: Yuck. 


Halle Kiefer: And unfortunately, Alison Justine starts eating her sister’s finger like a chicken wing. Just going to town on that bitch. 


Alison Leiby: No. No. No. No. 


Halle Kiefer: And her sister wakes up and sees her do it. 


Alison Leiby: [gasps] Imagine. 


Halle Kiefer: I can’t. I my mind wouldn’t allow it. 


Alison Leiby: My mind will not allow me to understand. Watching somebody, just going to town on my middle finger that got severed. Like it’s dollar wig night. 


Halle Kiefer: And a family member at that. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Not even a stranger. Not even a college roommate. I’ve had college roommates, and I feel like I could do this. But family. 


Alison Leiby: Your sister. 


Halle Kiefer: My God. With that shot, we see them they’re in the hospital. Their parents have come, and Justine’s waiting with them. And she has this weird interaction where an old man’s staring at her and then kind of, like, pops out his teeth and starts laughing hysterically. So I guess maybe it’s just like the body pieces of the body and they wheel out Alex, who of course, does not tell their parents that Justine ate her finger. She says, Quicky ate my finger, so blame it on the dog. Her finger flew off the dog got it. Which seems plausible. 


Alison Leiby: Her finger flew off. 


Halle Kiefer: Well, I mean, she said like, oh, it was an accident with the scissors. Admits that. 


Alison Leiby: Yes and then—


Halle Kiefer: But then when it hit the ground the dog got it. 


Alison Leiby: Got it. 


Halle Kiefer: Which makes it’s more palatable than my sister ate it when I was passed out. 


Alison Leiby: One hundred percent. 


Halle Kiefer: Of course, the parents are like asking the doctor, like, what are we going to do? Can we reattach? The doctor is like, No, it’s all somebody ate it like a chicken bone that dog went to town on it. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. You just have a regular hand with them, like a middle finger. That’s just bone? [laughter]


Halle Kiefer: Right? Yeah. And they’re like, Well, is there rehab? And he’s like, ma’am, it’s just the top of one of her fingers. Or she doesn’t. She’s fine. Like, it’s actually going to be fine. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah right she can’t be a veterinarian, probably. But like, you know. 


Halle Kiefer: Well, I think the idea is like she can, like, maybe, like maybe probably can’t do surgery. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: But also they don’t say whether it’s her dominant hand. So I was like, if it’s not your dominant hand, I think. 


Alison Leiby: You can get by. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, like like if you’re like, giving up, you know, giving a dog medication or like doing shots or. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Moving a horse, you could still do it. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. Moving a horse. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Like, what do you do as a veterinarian. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t know. 


Halle Kiefer: You pick up a rabbit? Like she could do a lot of the stuff, right? [laughter] I don’t know what they do. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t either. 


Halle Kiefer: I do. We do know, though, they do a lot of stuff. Probably. 


Alison Leiby: Right. I just can’t name specific tasks right now. 


Halle Kiefer: Other than putting dogs down. And you could definitely do that with missing a figure. I’m sorry to bring up the saddest one. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, but they’re like. They’re like, attacking Alex with a barrage of questions. And then Justine goes, Leave her alone for five minutes, Mom. God and her parents yell at her to never disrespect her mother. And Justine runs outside to, you guessed it, vomit in the parking lot. And her dad comes out was like, You need to apologize to your mother. And it’s like, okay. And she joins him and he gives her a cigarette and and she says, Well, who has Quicky? And he says, oh, he’s going to be put down once an animal has taste for human flesh they aren’t safe. If he likes it will bite again. Again is France the Middle Ages? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, what? 


Halle Kiefer: Like what are you talking about? 


Alison Leiby: Like. 


Halle Kiefer: I don’t think it works like that. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t think so either. 


Halle Kiefer: He also didn’t bite? He didn’t bite it off. 


Alison Leiby: Right? 


Halle Kiefer: It fell off. 


Alison Leiby: It was cut off. It fell on the ground and then she ate it. So. 


Halle Kiefer: Right. So, of course, she’s trying to be like, well, he didn’t fight the finger off. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: It fell. I mean, Alex cut her and it fell on the ground. He ate it. That’s not any dog would do that. And they go. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: Don’t have two girls, honey. It’s too hard. It’s like, this is the least gender specific [both speaking]  situation. This is in fact the only situation in this movie where gender does not matter what so ever. 


Alison Leiby: At all. 


Halle Kiefer: What? Any who. Dad, grow up. So the parents go back home. And as soon as they get back to the school, Alex, like, stands up and like, kicks her wheelchair across the parking lot and says, we need to talk. And so they walk down that lonely country road we saw at the beginning, and Alex has them both crouch down in a ditch. And Justine is like, is this to prove a point? Are you going to haze me? Like, what’s going to happen? 


Alison Leiby: What is this? 


Halle Kiefer: Alison. A car drives by and Alex dives in front of it. Again. The car veers and slams into that exact same tree and Justine runs to Alex, like, freaked out. She’s in the road, but she’s fine. And they go to the car and both passengers are passed out bloody. And one of them is sort of groaning and Alex says, okay, this guy’s not going to survive. Justine is horrified. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And doesn’t understand what’s going on is like, we have to call somebody only to look and see Alex open the passenger side door and lean in and start eating one of the guy’s faces. [laughter] And Justine pulls her off was like, What the fuck are you doing now? Alex says are you stupid? I’m teaching you. You have to learn like, how to control this. And Justine’s like, Oh, my sister has a taste for human flesh too. I see. 


Alison Leiby: Well, it’s a family affair. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. But Justine refuses it. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: She’s not ready to accept her animal nature. So she walks home on the side of the highway and then realized she has blood on her sweater, takes it off. Then she’s walking in her bra. The next day, she joins Adrien for a dog autopsy symposium. 


Alison Leiby: Classes. [laughter]


Halle Kiefer: And when she ties his gown, she’s like tying it behind his back. She gets like a whiff of him and she just like you see her, like her pupils wide and like she’s like, oh, shit. 


Alison Leiby: I want to eat this person. 


Halle Kiefer: Adrien is not only hot like, I’m like, you know, like we’re having, like, a chemical attraction. Alison  they’re doing autopsies on dogs, so there’s quite a number of dead dogs in this scene. 


Alison Leiby: Jesus. 


Halle Kiefer: That. And he’s like, you know, I’m really sorry about your sister. And Justine’s like I thought you didn’t like her, he’s like, well, yeah, she seems like a crazy bitch, but, like, I didn’t want her finger to get cut off. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah.


Halle Kiefer: I’m sorry that happened. And she’s, like, Justine says it’s just a finger, and then she just cuts her dog corpse from, like, a German shepherd from sternum to stern without a thought. And I think this is like we’re seeing her become. 


Alison Leiby: She’s lost the connection to, like, what is alive. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. Things, things yeah, the veil between the living and the dead is starting to part for her. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: They have to go do another hazing ritual where they’re pelted with food while her sister watches her and now Justine clearly has a taste for Adrien. And is like goes and watches him play shirtless soccer. And to be fair, he’s he’s proper fit. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: He is proper fit. And as she watches, her nose starts to bleed. I guess that’s how horny she is. 


Alison Leiby: Wow. I’ve never been that horny for anything. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Certainly not eating human flesh. 


Halle Kiefer: And so this, I think both as she’s, like, realizing that she wants to consume human flesh, she’s also awakening to her sexuality. And I love that the symbol we use to usher us into this part of the film is in the dog autopsy room. We see a sort of the sheet being pulled or falling off her, the dog corpse that she autopsied. 


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: That is the symbol of her entering her feminine sexuality. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, those two things are so similar. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. So in her room, she finally puts on her sister’s club dress and, like, actually puts on lipstick. Is like dancing horny and, like, kissing, like the mirror with lipstick on, which is something we all have to do. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: It seems very, very 18 year old or younger. And they’re listening to a French song and the chorus. So the lyrics are, I like to bang the dead. And she starts like kissing the mirror. 


Alison Leiby: France. 


Halle Kiefer: And she hears in the other room. Adrien’s laughing with her sister and she’s like, Excuse me. She rushes out, they’re playing video games. And Adrien says, Oh, hey, I’m just about to leave I’m going to a hospital party. Literally, they they’re on call and they party. And then if they get called in, they have to go in anyways. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. 


Halle Kiefer: And he says to Alex like, you’re lucky it wasn’t last night. Or you could have lost your fucking hand bitch. Anyways see you guys later and Justine says, Alex, hands off. But Alex replies, I thought he was gay. What are you talking about? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Hands off. I’m not. I’m not trying to fuck him. Also, I don’t think that would work. 


Alison Leiby: That he will. That’s a two way street that. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes, exactly two people. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Two people. Yeah and one of the one of the ways is a gateway. 


Alison Leiby: Yes.


Halle Kiefer: And her sister looks at her in the dress and says you know that looks really good but you’re dropping a lot of weight. You better not be anorexic. That’s so boring and annoying. [laughter] And again I’m like France. Man. I don’t know. And she says well you have to eat something. And they’re both obviously talking about human flesh. And Justine says, I don’t need that. I’m not like you. I tried it once, okay? And I didn’t like it. It’s like I think if you try it once. 


Alison Leiby: You do like it. 


Halle Kiefer: You do like it because most of us never do. Most of us—


Alison Leiby: Never try. 


Halle Kiefer: The tries are zero. And Alex says, okay, but just so you know, I tried exactly what you’re doing. I tried to go without, but obviously, much like she’s a vampire, Justine can only go so long without flesh. So we see her? She’s in bed. She’s under her sheets. She’s sweaty, miserable. And then we see it looks like an unseen force is just pummeling her through the sheets. And she’s screaming and she’s screaming. Alison, she needs to feed. And I’m going to ask you at this point, who will survive? 


[voice over]: Who will survive?


Alison Leiby: Justine and her sister will survive. But then, like everybody else, is dead. And they find out that it’s like them and their parents have this taste as well. 


Halle Kiefer: Great. Okay. Excellent guess, we love it. 




Halle Kiefer: So Justine leaps out of bed as you would, and starts wandering down the hallway in her underwear and walks to it through an open doorway. And someone hurls a gallon of blue paint in her face because apparently that’s literally it’s like Thursday. And this is like this started on Sunday. 


Alison Leiby: I mean this, it’s it’s not worth like go to another school where this isn’t what happens. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s just so many things thrown in your face and eyes. Like I just don’t understand. But we see a bunch a roomful of paint spattered people, including Adrien and one of the elder students grabs Justine and a random guy who’s in yellow and throws them in the bathroom and says, Don’t come out until you’re both green. And so the guy tries. And here’s the thing, the guy is like trying to kiss Justine as she pushes away. Understandable. And also, both of their mouths are covered in paint, which also is, I find, so viscerally disgusting. Like you’re kissing with paint. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah the taste. 


Halle Kiefer: Mouth. I don’t know why. I mean, I know why, but just like that, that and the hair. I was like, you got to be kidding me. 


Alison Leiby: Ugh. Tough. 


Halle Kiefer: But then he says, you know, we don’t worry. We can go slow. And so she starts to kiss him back. And so they’re kind of like rubbing, you know, like they’re like rubbing the paint on each other things. She’s, like, seemingly enjoying it. And then everyone in the other room hears a scream and the guy runs out. Justine has bitten a chunk of his lip off. Oh, she goes to back to her room to shower and we see the chunk is still in her mouth and it falls out of the shower floor and she picks it up and eats it. 


Alison Leiby: Ugh. 


Halle Kiefer: Back in the room. Adrien went with her and she’s like, she and Adrien are on his bed, she’s in a towel and they’re sort of cuddling and he’s like, So are you into that like S&M? Like, did you know? She’s like, I don’t know. He goes, Did it turn you on? Are you still horny? And she’s like, I don’t know anything. She’s like, I don’t know. I’m just interested. Like, I just like to talk about it, you know? And so she goes off to bed and he starts to watch gay porn and jerk off. But then Justine goes back in and she says t him, it’s bad. And then they start to fuck. So I guess it’s like, well, they’re both horny. And they’re both like. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Okay, well, whatever. We’re 20. 


Alison Leiby: Let’s do this. 


Halle Kiefer: You know? And so they start to have sex Alison, they roll onto the ground. And then she’s throwing his ass around, like, biting his neck, throwing him like, kind of pushing up against the bed to the point where he’s like, stop. You have, like, she’s flailing. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s like and she’s like, you have to stop. And then she comes and when she does, she bites down hard on her own arm and blood starts welling and dribbling everywhere. So you can imagine Adrien’s like, I don’t know about all this. 


Alison Leiby: No, that’s a lot. That’s lot. 


Halle Kiefer: And while they’re in class, Adrien gets a text and shows Justine his phone, which has a message from her sister and says, Tell my sister to look at her phone because I guess she was ignoring you know her texts. And the message says, Mom said they put Quicky down L.O.L #waytoocute. And of all the things to focus on, Justine turns to Adrien and says, Why does my sister have your number? It’s like, Bitch, you are a cannibal—


Alison Leiby: There’s so much stuff going on. 


Halle Kiefer: —and they put your dog down for a crime that you committed. Why do you have my sister’s number? And she’s like, Did something happen with her? And she. And then Adrien won’t answer. So she’s like why are you ignoring me? Nice way to treat a girl you deflowered. And Adrien stands up and he says I’m gay. I didn’t stay in the closet for 20 years to fuck girls. And he storms out in front of everybody. [laughter] Which is great. That night, Justine goes out and is so blackout drunk is doing essentially, like, an impression of, like, a horny person. Like she’s watching this couple. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Make out and she’s like. Like she’s watching them in such a way where you’re like, oh, girl. And then she goes to get a drink. They literally pour her like a full plastic cup of straight, warm vodka. 


Alison Leiby: That’s the grossest thing that’s happened in this movie. 


Halle Kiefer: She’s gulping it down. And then you see her, like, wincing and trying not to vomit and for it goes on that goes on for quite a long time to like, all the body stuff really had me gagging in. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Both regards. Finally, her sister comes and finds Justine and escorts her out and takes her to the morgue. Where we see her pull a body out of the drawer. 


Alison Leiby: But there are people. 


Halle Kiefer: So there’s also a hospital. So there’s a veterinarian school and then a human hospital. So they’re in the human morgue. So it’s a human body. Justine wakes up in her bed. She’s in her dress but everything seems fine. She rushes to lecture Alison when she walks in. It’s like one of those big lecture halls, like 100 people. She walks and everyone’s staring at her and she sits down and the girls she was sitting next to moves over a seat. Afterwards, Adrien pulls her into the bathroom and says, Bitch, you have to see this. And it’s a video of her from the night before that she’s she’s blackout she has no memory of it. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: So there’s a crowd of students in the morgue and. And you see the video of the person, whoever took it, it’s not Adrien, it’s like somebody sent it to him. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And whoever’s filming it people are saying even in the video, don’t film her like this. She’s fucked up. Don’t. It’s fucked up to film people like, don’t do this. And finally, we get to what’s happening. We see Justine on the ground. And Alex is dangling the corpses arm over Justine’s face and making her, like, jump and snap for it, like, a dog. And people are like don’t film this she’s fucked up. But also they’re also watching her and also it’s her sister doing it. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: So I think no one’s getting involved. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: Because it’s like that’s her own sister. I don’t know. I’m not going to get—


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: In between, whatever the fuck this is. 


Alison Leiby: No. 


Halle Kiefer: I know. Justine reasonably enough freaks out now. 


[clip from Raw]: [speaking in French]


Halle Kiefer: Because the implication is not simply. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: That that happened. But that her sister did it, and also that everyone in the school is going to see. 


Alison Leiby: Everybody knows. And she runs and finds and Alex is outside. Like everyone’s there’s like a courtyard area where everyone like walks between the building. So it’s full of people, full of other students. She finds Alex and she shoves her to the ground and they start fucking kicking each other’s ass, which is mostly hair pulling and pushing each other to the ground. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. Yeah. Sister fight. 


Halle Kiefer: Alex lunges forward and bites Justine’s cheek and rips a chunk of flesh off. And then now they’re really grappling and they end up locked. Each of them has each other’s hand, a wrist and each other’s jaws, and they’re, like, locked in a fight until someone comes to break them up. The other students are filming this, too. So now everyone’s like, oh, these two sisters who are completely insane. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: So they kind of now all all they have is each other. And Alex takes Justine back to her dorm and like, bandages her face. And this is sort of like a detente. Like you, you, you. 


Alison Leiby: We got to figure this out. 


Halle Kiefer: And also like you ate my finger and I humiliated you in front of the school. We’re even. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: In the morning, we see a bunch of the students. They’re wearing like comforters and their jammies. And we hear the three blasts of the air horn. And I guess it’s like their last meet up. They all have to go there at dawn. It’s freezing. But this is the end of rush week. It’s been one week. Alison. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. One, what a crazy week. 


Halle Kiefer: Justine wakes up in Adrien’s bed. And of course, she’s like, all right, well, I guess we’ve fucked again, turns to him and reaches under the covers and pulls back her hands covered in blood. She throws off the comforter and his thigh has been eaten. Huge. Most of his life has been eaten down to the bone. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. 


Halle Kiefer: And she tries to shake him awake, but he’s dead. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, I, yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And she sobs, thinking that she did it. But when she gets up, she see’s on his back. There’s a separate wound and she stands up and she sees he has a ski pole, is covered in blood. And she walks into the kitchen and we see Alex is there and her mouth is covered in blood. And she’s obviously the one who actually ate Adrien. 


Alison Leiby: These two. 


Halle Kiefer: These two. I swear to God.


Alison Leiby: These two. 


Halle Kiefer: So now Justine must help her. The roles reversed and we see all the students gather outside with concern, looks their faces. I think we’re supposedly like people are hearing like something happened, something happened, something happened. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: And Justine undresses Alex and they both get in the shower and Alex tries to wash both of them off. But you can’t wash off this dead guy in your dorm room. 


Alison Leiby: No, nope, that’s still there. 


Halle Kiefer: Next thing you know, we see Justine and her parents are visiting Alex in prison. The implication being that she has been convicted of a crime or ultimately it’s a mental institution. But she’s behind glass. And while they’re talking, the parents get up to leave and then Justine’s following them and Alex bangs on the glass. And when Justine turns around, she’s holding up her middle finger. But the one that got cut off, so she’s. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Holding up everything but her middle finger. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Back at home, her mom says basically her mom is, like, fuming, silent, not talking. And she’s like, You have to eat all your vegetables. It’s like, again, that is. 


Alison Leiby: That is not the problem. 


Halle Kiefer: Number 5000 on the list of things we should talk about. And her mom storms out and her dad. The one who’s been like talking to her throughout the movie says, you know, it’s not your it’s not your fault. You know, Justine says, I know that. And but then he says, it’s not your sister’s fault either. She says. What do you mean? And her dad explains, When Alex was born. She was our little princess. And then things change as she started to grow up. And it’s our fault that we didn’t find a solution. 


Alison Leiby: What the, what would a solution be? 


Halle Kiefer: Well, he says he goes on, you know, when we were when I met your mom at school, you know, we were friends first. And she would say I’m just a friend, I didn’t understand because she didn’t have a boyfriend. And we were obviously more than friends. And then we had our first kiss and then I understood. And he puts his finger to his lips. And until then, I didn’t realize he’s always smoking. So he always his hand over his mouth. He’s. 


Alison Leiby: Uh huh. 


Halle Kiefer: For the first time we see that. 


Alison Leiby: Missing. 


Halle Kiefer: A chunk of his lip has been bitten off and there’s a scar. 


Alison Leiby: So it’s Mom. It’s mom. 


Halle Kiefer: And then Alison, Justine. Justine’s dad undoes his shirt and holds it open, he’s covered in bite marks and scars and wounds like healed wounds. And he tells her. I’m sure you’ll find a solution, honey. The end. 


Alison Leiby: Oh, my God. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. You’re—


Alison Leiby: Okay. 


Halle Kiefer: Alison, what are some fatal mistakes you think someone made in this movie? 


[voice over]: Fatal mistakes. 


Halle Kiefer: I think we’re to think like, okay, this is maybe this is just an analyzing the metaphor of the movie, which anyone could do, you know. 


Alison Leiby: Yes, of course. 


Halle Kiefer: Just sort of the idea of like we instead of teaching our children anything about themselves and anything about sexuality or death, we leave them alone to discover things themselves. And then they find—


Alison Leiby: And then it’s horrific. 


Halle Kiefer: Exactly they think of themselves as monsters. They do things that are monstrous and have no context for it. And. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: The idea, like I’m sure you’ll find a solution, I think is supposed to be like, Well, I’m passing it on to our children’s generation because we didn’t find a solution for you or your sister. 


Alison Leiby: Right maybe you guys will. 


Halle Kiefer: Right. So it’s like we’re kicking the can. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And also. 


Alison Leiby: Down the road yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: And like, because her dad, like her parents do love her. So they do think that’s possible, but they are not engaging in like, had you told her this, you could have created a situation, I don’t know, like Dexter situations she’d have to eat serial killers or something, but like. 


Alison Leiby: But at least that, I mean, that feels fine. 


Halle Kiefer: And then it’s like, okay.


Alison Leiby: Compared to this. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. It’s like, how often do you have to feed? Because then I was like, Are the scars on the dad’s torso that the mom like feeds off of him and she only needs a little bit of blood, like. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: Or how does the mom maintain it? 


Alison Leiby: Yeah right. What are the rules? 


Halle Kiefer: What are the rules? And why would you not tell both your daughters? But I guess the idea is like, well, in some ways that it’s sort of like queerness or just about everyone’s sexuality where it’s like. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: If we never talk about it, then you won’t experience this. The thing that everybody experiences and no one talks about, it’s like. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: Why would that make any sense? 


Alison Leiby: Right? You’re like, oh, we’ll we’ll, we’ll just raise you as vegetarians hoping that you never. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. 


Alison Leiby: Accidentally or by choice decide to consume meat, which like clearly. 


Halle Kiefer: Would happen at some point. 


Alison Leiby: Kicked this off. Yeah right. 


Halle Kiefer: It’s like it’s also. Why not tell her? Because the media says you know, there was like the mom says to the woman at the buffet is like, what if she had been allergic? Why not tell her she’s allergic? 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: So she doesn’t eat it out of fear. 


Alison Leiby: At least it’s still fear. Right. 


Halle Kiefer: Exactly. But this is not a criticism of the movie. I think that’s exactly what the movie’s about. The movie is. 


Alison Leiby: Yes 100%. 


Halle Kiefer: At the end you’re supposed to be like, why the fuck would you tell them this now one of the is in jail. And how? I mean, it’s true of like mental illness, addiction, anything regarding sexuality, queerness, trans like, anything where it’s like you have this information, why can’t we pass it to the kids? Why can’t the kids know? 


Alison Leiby: Why can’t we talk about it? Why can’t we find solutions? Why does it have to be like you’re on your own? 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. And and I really like this movie. And I think they did a. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: Really excellent job. And poor Adrien [laughs] you know, he was trying to be a good friend. 


Alison Leiby: I know. 


Halle Kiefer: Turned into a delicious late night snack type. 


Alison Leiby: R.I.P. Late night snack. 


Halle Kiefer: Any other fatal mistakes? 


Alison Leiby: Not being like I got forced to eat something, and now I don’t feel like. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Once, like, things start going south for you or for Justine at, like, during hazing. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Which I understand. It’s like also, like she’s 18. It’s hazing. Like, it’s really hard to, like, have the strength to, like, take yourself out of that. But like, when I was like that, like if I had all that rash and it was such a nightmare, I’d be like, maybe I should go to a hospital. That’s not at the school. And like, get removed from this environment for a little bit. 


Halle Kiefer: Agreed. Couldn’t agree more. 


Alison Leiby: I don’t know if that would have stopped anything, but it could have slowed it down. [laughs]


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. There’s also, for someone who’s so supposed to be so smart. 


Alison Leiby: Right. 


Halle Kiefer: Not a lot of great decisions made, but I guess we’re to think again, like she’s smart in a very sheltered way. 


Alison Leiby: Yes. 


Halle Kiefer: But yeah. And then finally, where would you place Raw on the spooky scale, Alison? 


[voice over]: A spooky scale. 


Alison Leiby: Grossness. Ten out of ten. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Scariness. I think like for me, like a six or a seven. 


Halle Kiefer: Oh, okay. Great. 


Alison Leiby: Let’s call it a six and a half. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah, I really. I would say 10 out of 10 really enjoyed this movie. In terms of scariness. I didn’t think it was particularly scary. I really enjoyed it. 


Alison Leiby: Mm hmm. 


Halle Kiefer: But I did find disgusting. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. 


Halle Kiefer: So ten out of ten disgusting, in terms of scariness. I’ll give it a five. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah, that feels right. 


Halle Kiefer: There were some horrifying moments, but I really just. It’s a coming of age drama with body horror elements. So that’s how it’s more up your alley. That’s what I would describe it as. But the gory elements are pretty like I did get gagged multiple times in this movie, so. 


Alison Leiby: Yeah. That’s tough. 


Halle Kiefer: Check in with yourself about that, everybody. 


Alison Leiby: Yep. 


Halle Kiefer: And then if you’re this up your alley, go see Raw. 


Alison Leiby: I’m glad I. I do remember when this came out, and I was like, I hope I can read an article about it at some point. And obviously this is a much better forum for—


Halle Kiefer: And here we are my friend. 


Alison Leiby: And here we are. And here we are. 


Halle Kiefer: Well. 


Alison Leiby: Well. 


Halle Kiefer: Everybody, thank you for listening. 


Alison Leiby: Yes, we love you. 


Halle Kiefer: We love you. 


Alison Leiby: Very much. 


Halle Kiefer: Yes. And. 


Alison Leiby: And until next time. 


Halle Kiefer: Keep it spooky. 


Alison Leiby: Keep it spooky. 


Halle Kiefer: Yeah. 


Alison Leiby: Keep it spooky. Keep it spooky. 


Halle Kiefer: To keep it spooky. [music plays] Don’t forget to follow us at Ruined podcasts and Crooked Media for show updates. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Ruined is a Radio Point and Crooked Media production, we’re your writers and hosts Halle Kiefer and Alison Leiby. The show is executive produced by Alex Bach, Sabrina Fonfeder and Houston Snyder, and recorded and edited by Kat Iossa. From Crooked Media our executive producer is Kendra James with production and promotional support from Ari Schwartz, Kyle Seglin, Julia Beach, Caroline Dunphy, and Ewa Okulate.