"In Da Club Chalamet" w. Graham Norton | Crooked Media
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September 13, 2023
Keep It
"In Da Club Chalamet" w. Graham Norton

In This Episode

Ira and Louis discuss the internet account obsessed with Timothee Chalamet, Olivia Rodrigo’s new album Guts, and Drew Barrymore crossing the picket line. Plus, Graham Norton joins to discuss his favorite celebrity talk show moments and his new novel, Forever Home. And in the Keep It segment: Rotten Tomatoes and Ice Spice’s Dunkin’ Donuts collab.






Ira Madison III And we are back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.


Louis Virtel Are you sure you’re not Ainsley Harriott? Who is that accent? First black British man I can think of. I am Louis Virtel. I just want to say this regards a bunch of my close friends and a bunch of acquaintances who came up to me this week and they said, Oh, I saw the article in Rolling Stone and I just want to ask how your workplace is doing, how you are. And I want to say to them, thank you for your concern. And also, I work for Jimmy Kimmel. I do not work for Fallon. I live in Los Angeles. It is not 2008. You cannot be getting these two people mixed up. Yes. A lot of interesting stuff going on in the talk show universe this week. And as a striking talk show employee, it’s been it’s given me at least something to think about.


Ira Madison III You know, I thought that you worked at Jimmy John.


Louis Virtel Number four Turkey Tom. Honey, I went to a state school. That is what we ate.


Ira Madison III Whatever. Louis has to get to work. I’m like, Okay, Like, the sandwiches aren’t that hard.


Louis Virtel That bread. The bread of Jimmy John’s is something that’s like a mystical material. It’s like both bread. It’s also Nerf


Ira Madison III Yeah, it is. It tastes so fucking good. Like, I feel like the the Jimmy John bread is the whole allure of it. I’m a big purveyor of sandwich shops, as you know. I’m a Subway fan. And also for people from the Milwaukee area. I don’t think they had this in Illinois. Cousins.


Louis Virtel I’ve heard of it. We don’t have that. No. Potbelly is a big thing in Chicago. Yeah.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Potbellies. What Cousins was, Cousins was that girl.


Louis Virtel Also I think I want to call more people cousin and in a derogatory way. What did you just say, cousin? You know what my friend Andy got me hooked on? And of course, he’s stolen this from Twitter. But it’s so funny calling people beloved. What did you say, beloved


Ira Madison III That’s such a very black thing.


Louis Virtel I know. I know. Gay white men riffing on black lingo. You’ve heard it before. It’s been done before.


Ira Madison III I love a very good beloved.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III It’s so. It’s it’s bitch without bitch.


Louis Virtel And also it’s also dumb ass, you know?


Ira Madison III Yes. Okay. Also beloved, did you even read Beloved?


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Me as an English teacher. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. It’s so funny. It’s so damning to be called beloved. Like. Oh, I’m stupid.


Ira Madison III Yea. Speaking of talk shows.


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III Our girl, Drew.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Cameron D and Destiny. I’m concerned. Yeah.


Ira Madison III So Drew Barrymore, who we love, she’s a she has a chic celebrity. She well, I don’t know how chic she is. That that was that was that was a poor adjective. We love her. She’s very funny.


Louis Virtel Genuine.


Ira Madison III Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. She you know, she.


Louis Virtel Almost despite herself. She’s so genuine. Yeah, that’s right.


Ira Madison III Yes. But. Now she has decided to put her show back on the air while we are striking. So I guess she is employing scabs to make her show her show, which is very sweet, but. And, you know, so people are watching it. I watch it sometimes, too, but it’s mostly her dressing up in weird costumes or talking to Ross MATTHEWS and Danny Pellegrino. So I don’t know that it is essential that the show be back on the air right now. And it’s very weird because while the MTV Movie Awards are airing tonight, they’ll have aired when this episode comes out. Thank God we don’t have to talk about that shit this year. She pulled out of the show because of the strike. But now. She’s back doing her show and she got the fact that she is giving us this notes app style apology for how she is bringing this show back and she wants to support people and the writers, etc.. How about you support the writers by not being on strike? How about you not hire scabs? How about you go do what would be the easiest thing for a rich woman to do? Go be rich.


Louis Virtel And also, I mean, if you’re concerned about the crew being paid money, like, then maybe just pay them out of your pocket instead of doing this. I mean, a friend of mine said it best. She is and she did released a notes app style, not apology, but explanation for what she’s doing. First of all, that was very shocking to read because it clearly didn’t go through any other people. The grammar, the grammar and the flow of it was like concerning like it made you maybe almost feel bad for her because it’s clear not that many people are on her side, even in her camp, seemingly. But I think what’s important is she clearly is missing the vibe of the whole strike. You know, this is an industry that is currently taking advantage of specifically writers, but actors, too. And we need to solve how we’re all going to deal with this moving forward for forever if this industry is going to survive. And so to put on this show and to pretend you’re doing it out of, I don’t know, care for people is just missing the point. You know, we’re we’re caring for people right now doing doing the strike.


Ira Madison III Yeah. It seems so shortsighted and I don’t understand the impetus to do it now. I could presuppose that CBS issued some sort of edict of, We’re going to cancel this shit.


Louis Virtel That’s. That’s my guess. It’s my guess, right? Yeah.


Ira Madison III But, baby, is it better to have that happen to the show and then say, hey, this is what CBS did? They suck.


Louis Virtel Right? And by the way, I’m equally baffled by Jeopardy right now, which has new episodes. And the party line over there is we’re using old material that the writers have written. The episode I watched last night, which was new, had questions about the Barbie movie. So it’s like that was written recently. It’s very confusing.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel I don’t know what’s going on over there.


Ira Madison III Also, if you’re using oldthe clues from Jeopardy, does that mean the writers of those old clues get paid?


Louis Virtel Right? I would assume, yeah, right.


Ira Madison III You know, most of them are probably dead.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III But it should go to their estate, surely.


Louis Virtel They’re in the Culver City Cemetery right next door. Yeah.


Ira Madison III You pass by them on your daily cemetery walk?


Louis Virtel Yes. I like how this has becoming my legacy.


Ira Madison III Do you go to that one?


Louis Virtel No, no, no, no. I only go to Forest. Honey, there need to be A-listers. I will occasionally. No, you know what’s crazy is you know where you can see where Marilyn Monroe’s grave. You just drive right down Wilshire Boulevard. Take a left. There’s this graveyard right there. And she’s there. It’s bizarre.


Ira Madison III Hmm. And Kim Kardashian is parked outside with a shovel.


Louis Virtel Yes, Right. Ana de Armas got the bucket.


Ira Madison III Anyway, I don’t know what homegirl is doing.


Louis Virtel Good memes, though. Lots of good lots of good screen material on Twitter regarding Drew Barrymore.


Ira Madison III Yes. Yes. You know, I got off a Scream joke. Someone had a sign where it said, Are writing good cars with scabs.


Louis Virtel Boys on the side, ethics on the side. How about that? Also, do you know what is particularly tragic, by the way? You know who in old Hollywood was a huge supporter of striking unions? That would be her great aunt, Ethel Barrymore, Oscar winner Ethel Barrymore, along with her friend Marie Dressler. Another legend was a strong supporter of the Actors Equity Association and had a high profile role in the 1919 strike. I’m reading this from Wikipedia, which is, I’m sure, incredibly researched. During the strike, Ethel and Lionel Barrymore starred in a benefit show staged by the Lexington Avenue Opera House. Came into being primarily to allow performers to have a bigger share in the profits of stage productions and to provide benefit to elderly or infirm actors. Her support for the strike angered many producers and cost Barrymore her friendship with George M. Cohan, an actor, songwriter and producer. While George M Cohan has a new ally in Drew Barrymore, he wanted out eventually.


Ira Madison III Listen. I think the solution for Drew is to remember that your show is not a first responder. That’s true. So maybe go just chill out, be on vacation, go to the grocery store, buy some McCann’s, put them in your oven and eat some home fries. You know what I’m saying?


Louis Virtel Home fries. Good reference. Yes, the wedding scammer. I wish I had more dynamite puns on me at the moment. I don’t.


Ira Madison III And it’s a shame because mostly she’s never been dissed. But now it’s all happening.


Louis Virtel Never been dissed.


Ira Madison III All right.


Louis Virtel So I’m exhausted. Sorry I didn’t contribute. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III If. Well, you know, to fill in our listeners on why I was using a British accent earlier in this episode, it’s because our guest this week is the one and only Graham Norton.


Louis Virtel Whom I tell him this at the end of the interview, which is one of the definitive interviewers of our time, When you tune in to Graham Norton, you are guaranteed to have it’s guaranteed to be fabulous. The celebrities are guaranteed to be having the most fun they’ll ever have on TV. I’ve always admired him. He’s so funny. Anyway, He’s so the ideal. Like a celebrity and a celebrity celebrity.


Ira Madison III Even gays with no sense, no cultural sense, no thoughts in their tiny little brain. They watch Graham Norton interviews. I’ve been at many afters where someone will just throw on a Graham Norton segment and it’s it’s great. It’s soothing. I love seeing those. I love what a celebrity, an American, what is interacting with a British celebrity who is just so it’s fun. It’s like the best dinner party.


Louis Virtel I know the Ocean’s Eight press tour, when you would have like both Cate Blanchett and Rihanna on his couch. This is what television is about. Come on.


Ira Madison III We need to make them back up again. I know there’s not going to be a sequel, but Cate Blanchett and Rihanna, I need them in. I need them in something else. Right. Okay.


Louis Virtel I need them in peril on the silver screen. Yes.


Ira Madison III San. Can Cate Blanchett be the Morgan Freeman to Rihanna, Ashley Judd? So that type of movie, a mystery.


Louis Virtel That would be fun. Also, Ashley Judd, I know she was she had a brief cameo in that movie. She Said, when’s that return, I’m ready.


Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m ready for that. Or that’s also making me think of The Bone Collector, which Denzel and Angelina. And also I want to say, you know, that Angelina Jolie is my favorite actress.


Louis Virtel Yes. I have a comment on Angelina Jolie in a second. Don’t don’t let me forget. Go ahead.


Ira Madison III It was interesting. There was a tweet going around about what your favorite performances of all time. You know, and obviously, it’s hard to pare that down to four, you know, and we talked about some of our favorite Oscar winning performances of the show before. But I think just off the top of my head, immediately, I was like, you know, Angela Bassett in What’s Love Got to Do With It? Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs, Penelope Cruz in Volver, Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman Returns. Those are four iconic performances to me. And it was interesting is yes, this girl interrupted Justice Gere, some back and forth on The Changeling. And of course, you know, I love Salt and I think she’s great. And Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it’s so interesting that Angelina Jolie obviously is an amazing actress because what she delivers, she is fucking delivering like she makes gone in 60 seconds. Right. But I feel like because of her outsized celebrity and then also her humanitarian work and raising the kids, etc., there are so few definitive iconic Angelina Jolie films.


Louis Virtel Right. And there’s lots of weird misses in between to like, obviously there’s like the Troy Universe and Beowulf and stuff.


Ira Madison III Pushing Ten is a good movie. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s okay.


Ira Madison III I should rewatch it.


Louis Virtel What’s interesting is I was also thinking about how when Charlize Theron emerged in the late nineties, she and Angelina. Basically we’re like kind of competing for the same roles and we’re even in a way, spitting images of each other. I watched the Get ready Woody Allen movie Celebrity, in which she gives a hilarious performance. It’s one of those movies where there’s just 10,000 actors in them, you know, a big ensemble movie where everyone gets a little moment Judy Davis gets broken up with for the 50th time anyway. But I was thinking Girl Interrupted, which and we’ve discussed this before, how Angelina never took a role like that again really makes way more sense as a Charlize Theron role. I wouldn’t be surprised if she auditioned for it and was like the runner up to get that.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Yeah. And they both also have. Franchises like Atomic Blond and Salt, which were sort of around the same time ish, but never really got off the ground and could have potentially been interesting franchises, you know?


Louis Virtel Yes. Right. No, they straddle that line of like, I’m an action hero, but I have emotional grit so I can do smaller indie movies, too, if I wanted to.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but I would love to see Angelina in a good melodrama, a good like, honestly, you know who I blame for it. You see this interview? Of course that interview. You remember the red carpet moment where Angelina Jolie finds Almodovar on a record and she’s like, Please cast the movie. Please cast the movie. He’s like, What? Talk? Like I only do Spanish movies, girl. And now, now, you know, he’s branching out, you know, make actually horror movie. Pedro.


Louis Virtel Yeah, that does feel exactly right, too. Also, I love Angelina Jolie just begging. Pedro Almodovar. Yeah, right. Come on, fags.


Ira Madison III I mean, obviously, she has great chemistry with one of his favorite leading men, Antonio Banderas. They are so hot in Original Sin.


Louis Virtel Right? Yes, certainly. Certainly.


Ira Madison III So I need Jolie’s shots.


Louis Virtel Yeah. And also good candidate for like a follow up Oscar at some point for like a lead performance. You know, she got the engenue Oscar, now let’s get the grand dame Oscar, you know, a little bit of a Zellweger situation. Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but hopefully not a Cold Mountain.


Louis Virtel Oh, that is a tough one for me also, Jude Law. Really good in that, though. I do like to Coleman.


Ira Madison III Well. Anyway, speaking of actors that we enjoy, the first thing we’re going to talk about this week is what the fuck is going on with this Twitter account , Club Chalumet?


Louis Virtel Timothee Chalumet, is a fine actor that I enjoy. The mania surrounding him is disconcerting and we just have to see it all the time. If we’re going to be on the Internet. And I’m not leaving that anytime soon.


Ira Madison III Also, Olivia Rodrigo’s sophomore album, Guts, is out, and shockingly, it is not about the Nickelodeon competition show.


Louis Virtel Oh, I have a piece of the aggro crag right here, and I was going to whip it out for you. It stays here now.


Ira Madison III We will be right back with more Keep It.




Ira Madison III So last week I did some boots on the ground reporting obviously, about Timothee Chalamet.


Louis Virtel What was that, Christiana Armanpour? Okay, go ahead.


Ira Madison III Ira Madison, the third, right here at the Rennaissance world tour at Sofi Stadium in Inglewood, California. Timothee Chalamet spotted with his paramour, Kylie Jenner. What’s going on with them? Let’s go inside for a closer look.


Louis Virtel Not bad. I wish Graham are here to see that.


Ira Madison III So they made their public public debut at Beyonce, and now they’ve also been spotted at the U.S. Open together. So they’re officially a couple now. And the Internet has lost its god damn mind about this relationship. There is so much going on with the idea of do these two people belong together? Which. Okay. And then there’s also this online account called Club Chalamet. A Twitter and Instagram account, which is run by a 57 year old black woman.


Louis Virtel But all clubs should be. I want to say this is generally good news.


Ira Madison III True. True. Okay. True. Let me tell you something, Louis. This is not Catch One, the, the gay bar in Los Angeles, which was family, was famously run by a black woman. This is certainly not that.


Louis Virtel You’re telling me I’m not going to see Thelma Houston performing at Club Chalamet. Okay.


Ira Madison III You might see her running the other way.


Louis Virtel Down Olympic? Yeah.


Ira Madison III I need to reiterate that a 57 year old black woman is running this account as she has lost her damn mind, as I said, along with the rest of the Internet, because she is spiraling from this Timothee and Kylie relationship. Let me read some of the things that she has written.


Louis Virtel Okay.


Ira Madison III So we know Timothee was smoking in the stadium.


Louis Virtel Yes, Very funny.


Ira Madison III Talked about that last week. Smoking, really stress. We have never seen Timothee smoke, but most of us were aware that he smokes. That’s very telling. He was tolerating a famous stalker who made this happen after months of public stalking. Yes. Timothee Chalamet is being stalked by Kylie Jenner.


Louis Virtel Wow. I mean, I love the theory. And also, the idea that he is dealing with it openly by smoking so that we see it, the theater of nicotine addiction as to deal with the woman he is currently spending time with, even though she’s basically holding him hostage, according to this tweet.


Ira Madison III If you’re feeling distressed by the video, it’s okay. Please take care of yourself. Step away from social media for a couple of days. Don’t attack or criticize Timothee. Too much money and time went into publicly harassing him and it finally paid off for those people.


Louis Virtel Did this person just tell somebody else to take time away from social media? Club Chalamet heal thyself.


Louis Virtel They certainly did not. Would she ever had a Twitter spaces


Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, no.


Ira Madison III Where she talked for over 52 minutes.


Louis Virtel Help me.


Ira Madison III Insinuating that Timothee was being blackmailed by a shadowy entity and just being seen publicly with Kylie. And gave the iconic quote, “we’ve never even seen them go to the Olive Garden. He loves Italian food. I mean, why not just go to Olive Garden? ”


Louis Virtel First of all, incredible question that just should be asked to anybody at any time. You’re at a bus stop right now, why are you not at the Olive Garden?


Ira Madison III Come on. Don’t go to Panera.


Louis Virtel Okay. Is this woman in jail yet? Because I’m seeing jail for her and I’m loving it.


Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, listen, it’s giving shades of Selena, As you said earlier.


Louis Virtel Yolanda Saldavar. Yes, right.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Okay. Like we need to make sure that she does not have a weapon permit.


Louis Virtel I just have a question. Like, okay, so we all, like Timothee, shall make a really good actor. What was the moment where it became like the absolute center for universe? Like, what is it about him that makes him important in this way? Because I have to say, like, whenever I see, like a candid Timothee moment or even when he was at SNL and like a little too excited to be friends with Pete Davidson, I realize, oh, this is like a traditional straight guy and in many ways, like he’s kind of bro energy, you know, and in a way that is not reflected in his roles on the silver screen. Like he’s a good actor. He does not seem this way in many of his roles, but when I see the person he is in reality, it’s sort of like, All right, average ish guy. It’s like when you see Leonardo DiCaprio dancing at Coachella, you’re like, okay, so we’re not friends.


Ira Madison III Right. It honestly, it feels a. A bit like, you know, I’m wearing a Charlie blue sweater, right? Yes. And having having met and profiled him and just seeing how people talk about him on the Internet with the whole gay baiting thing. And then now he’s engaged to a woman that he’s been dating publicly today. By the way, people are still discussing that. And it’s meeting him, talking to him. He is just a straight dude.


Louis Virtel Yeah. No, there’s no mystique to heterosexuality. I’m sorry. They live a particular way. And I’ve seen it a thousand times. I’ve got news for you. My father is straight, so I’ve grown up seeing his behavior.


Ira Madison III But there’s something about a male celebrity who is sort of younger and not explicitly. Overly hyper masculine that just throws the Internet into a tizzy.


Louis Virtel Sure.


Ira Madison III And it’s going on all these sort of fantasies about what this person is doing in their life.


Louis Virtel You know, it reminds you of, you know, like the Robert Pattinson heyday or.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel And actually, the other guy to Taylor Lautner, you know.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel There’s a softness to them. So maybe that’s vulnerability. Maybe I have an in there. People are creepy.


Ira Madison III They drove They drove my man Robert crazy.


Louis Virtel Yes, they definitely did.


Ira Madison III We have forgotten about it now, that Kristen Stewart is very much in her lesbian era.


Louis Virtel Yes. That woman, by the way, is mother. We fucking love Kristen Stewart here.


Ira Madison III Generally just a cool bitch. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Yes. A cool bitch.


Ira Madison III Yes. That is a cool celebrity, you know? And I feel like we’ve forgotten about how people used to trash her after the whole, you know, affair with that director post. You know, they were dogging her the way that people are attacking Kylie. And Kylie hasn’t even done anything but date this man.


Louis Virtel Also, Kristen Stewart in the position of being in a franchise that I mean, sucked, and sometimes blamed for it. And then since then she’s made only really tasteful choices. Basically, you know, outside of that Charlie’s Angels movie, which, you know, I’ll never forget, even though I’ve been advised.


Ira Madison III What are you talking about? What are you talking about?


Louis Virtel Oh, no.


Ira Madison III There’s only there’s only two Charlie’s Angels movies.


Louis Virtel Right? Yeah. Yeah. Lucy Liu, Right. We talked about it earlier. Yeah. Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III Yeah. It’s exactly weird. What’s interesting about Timothee Chalamet to me is I’m into the esthetic, not into the whole waifish twiggy. I want to date him. Obsessed with him esthetic. I think he’s generally pretty fashionable for like.


Louis Virtel Totally.


Ira Madison III Regular.


Louis Virtel Has fun with it.


Ira Madison III Do with it. Yeah, right. I follow an Instagram account called ready TImmy wear?


Louis Virtel No. Okay.


Ira Madison III And they put the outfits that he’s seen wearing in public on the Instagram account and where you can buy them. So the prices for them.


Louis Virtel There’s something about him. And when he picks the you know, I’m not going to say androgynous clothing, but, you know, fashionable stranger choices, that feels way more credible to me than when someone like Harry Styles does it. I can’t explain it. Right. It’s like it’s not like I think he’s like way more brilliant than Harry Styles. There’s just something about the look that that world that is like fitting to him in a way, you know, I don’t question it. It’s like, it’s like, this is the name that’s coming to mind when Lupita Nyong’o just wanders into pop culture wearing the most glamorous shit of all time. Am I correct that that, that that works? Some people fashion just agrees with who they are, and he’s one of those people.


Ira Madison III I think it’s also this effortlessness that comes with just him being a New Yorker. You Yeah, he’s just walking around. In these clothes added. But it’s just sort of his general sense, his esthetic. He’s not really putting on a whole. It’s the weird times, the few times we’ve seen him be dressy, dressy, or try to make a statement like what he looked like when you look like that Candyland villain.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. That was a famous tweet like that.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I said he looked like Lord Licorice and Greta Gerwig’s Candyland.


Ira Madison III Yes.


Ira Madison III But those are the only moments we see that from him. So I don’t know this interest in him. I feel like it has to stem from Call Me By Your Name. I feel like.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Something about seeing him in this romantic relationship that is sort of that’s fraught and unfolds over the course of the film had to have been some sort of turn on for older women like Club Chalamet.


Louis Virtel Yes. Well, because that’s a movie about pining, which is what loses on the Internet, too. And then secondly, at the end of that movie, he is just weeping for 10 minutes. And I feel like that appeals to a certain demographic, too, You know, like I, too, am weeping alone. I too am looking into the fire and thinking about my romantic past.


Ira Madison III People are tweeting about the last time they cried was.


Louis Virtel Yes. Oh, my God, Now you’ve put your finger on it. If people have an emotional moment nowadays and they have any internet presence, they’re like, I can monetize this. I can turn this into a show and brag that I effing cried during the last episode of Heart Stopper. How about bragging you didn’t cry and you held it together like an adult? How about that?


Ira Madison III I was at my mom’s funeral. Didn’t shed a fucking tear, bro.


Louis Virtel Slay, bitch. She went down hard. Yeah.


Ira Madison III What’s very funny is looking at videos of this woman.


Louis Virtel Oh, and there are videos of this woman.


Ira Madison III Yes. And interactions. She has a selfie with Timothee from one.


Louis Virtel That’s too bad.


Ira Madison III But there’s also. There’s also the event where he’s going to hug friends and he skips over her.


Louis Virtel No. Oh, my God, it’s so scary to be a celebrity. Oh, it’s so scary. People are just lingering everywhere.


Ira Madison III She is the stalker.


Louis Virtel Wasn’t there that story recently with Drew Barrymore was on stage and then Renee Rapp protected her from some fan or something. It’s so creepy.


Ira Madison III Yeah. So I don’t know. We’ve got to we’re got to wait for Biden to be out of office, though, because if she’s going to be shooting a US president.


Louis Virtel Right. Yeah, right.


Ira Madison III This Jodie Foster situation.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III She couldn’t have done this 2016 to 2020.


Louis Virtel I like how I like. I like how we’re sure this is what she’s up to, by the way.


Ira Madison III We don’t know if that’s I feel like that’s what adds to the creepiness about it. There’s part of it that’s funny and that is part of it.


Louis Virtel Right. Exactly.


Ira Madison III Like, it won’t be funny if she actually tries to kill him or Kylie Jenner.


Louis Virtel I don’t mean to say that this is particular to this woman, by the way. It’s just like that’s the whole thing with Internet culture. If there’s even some realm of attention paid to a certain kind of person who’s obsessed with something, it’s a little bit like how for Britney fans, it really like panned out for them that they turned out to be right about a lot of things that were happening to her. But, you know, a lot of the time that would be considered invasive or they would just be straight up wrong or uninformed or missing a big part of the story.


Ira Madison III Yeah, the wilder part of the story, of course, it’s just the fact that this woman is looking for attention because yesterday she tweeted once a New Yorker, always a New Yorker. In July 2001, I turned down a job opportunity that was located on the 102nd floor of the World Trade Center. Although the money was exceptional, the job was going to steer me in a financial direction that I didn’t want. Also, my gut instinct was on high alert to the point that I felt something was terribly wrong.


Louis Virtel Excuse me.


Ira Madison III About this opportunity.


Louis Virtel Excuse me.


Ira Madison III I declined the job and I’ve never done that in my life before or after. Always trust your gut. Is the universe trying to tell you something? Hashtag 911. Never forget hashtag NYC and a photo of the two towers. Bitch.


Louis Virtel Never forget. You mean always predict because you predicted 911?


Ira Madison III In July, by the way.


Louis Virtel She’s like something’s lingering. I don’t know what it is. I can’t be on that show back.


Ira Madison III That’s so Raven moment about. Oh, don’t go in those towers.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Touching your forehead and pretending to have a premonition is like one of my favorite funny things. What an insane tweet.


Ira Madison III Which is very funny because so many New Yorkers have a story about how, Oh, my God, I almost died on 911. I want to be there, you know? But that truly takes the fucking cake.


Louis Virtel That I mean, to bring up Robert Pattinson again. It’s bringing up that movie where it ends up it’s September 11th and it’s like What!


Ira Madison III Remember Me. Remember Me. Yes. They show his grave at the end, but we don’t see the dead body. Okay. I need to remember me. I need. Did you remember me? And he he he’s alive. And who they thought was his dead body was another dead body. And then that launches a mystery into figuring out who that person is.


Louis Virtel Is it possible you watch too many soaps? I’m concerned. Oh.


Ira Madison III I don’t know.


Louis Virtel There’s a fanciful ness to your thinking right now, but I’m going to call it derangement.


Ira Madison III Just call me Mickey Mouse, baby, because I’m fun and fancy free.


Louis Virtel Oh, my God. I was recently fantasizing about hosting a fitness class just for the hell of it. And I want to have funny lines lined up. And here’s one I thought of already. I’m Schitt’s Creek, Baby, I’m your dad, and I’m watching you. Anyway, more to come. This is my next line of work. If this strike goes on any longer.


Ira Madison III Let me tell you something. I also watched a clip of you at a YouTube competition series.


Louis Virtel Oh, I was on.


Ira Madison III Called The Experts.


Louis Virtel I posted this ten years ago, was on this awesome YouTube gameshow called The Experts, where they quiz you on a specialty subject and you’re up against other people in their specialty. The subjects I was talking about, Madonna, can you believe it? And I was up against somebody who knew about Batman from the comics. And then our friend Chico, who is a big Melrose Place expert, I think his questions were maybe a degree harder than mine. But anyway, I stole one.


Ira Madison III Yeah, because some of those I feel like I knew 90% of the Madonna.


Louis Virtel Yeah, they were pretty basic, generally speaking. Yeah.


Ira Madison III But. Some of those Melrose ones. I was like, I was digging into my brain. So I did know one of them that he didn’t know, but he knew a couple of other ones that I didn’t know. So that was weird. I would say the Batman one that was that was hard as hell because I’m a fan of Batman comics. Okay? There have been over a hundred years of Batman comics, so that’s a lot of shit, right?


Louis Virtel That said, he chose his own specialty topic, so in my opinion, he dug his own grave.


Ira Madison III Oh, that’s fair.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Oh, God. Lastly, about 911.


Louis Virtel Thank you. Okay, back to back to why we do this, I guess. 911.


Ira Madison III My favorite segway. What is the connection between Tommy Vitor, 911, and Madonna? I’m kidding. But the only I almost lived. Sorry, the only I almost died in 911 story that I care about is this was going around on Twitter.


Louis Virtel I know exactly what you’re going to bring up.


Ira Madison III The interview with this man and his wife where he was worried that his wife had died in the towers on 911, but she was not at work when the plane hit because she did not go into work that morning because she was going to buy Mariah Carey’s Glitter album and. That is the power of that album. Mariah Carey saves lives, What A Hero Comes Along. Oh.


Louis Virtel I thought you were going to bring up how some woman wasn’t in the towers because she almost ran into Gwyneth Paltrow on the street.


Ira Madison III No, I didn’t see that one.


Louis Virtel Talk about heroes. Gwyneth and Mariah. On the front lines.


Ira Madison III We need a vantage point style movie, about ten different people and the weird celebrity encounters they had on 911 that prevented them from dying.


Louis Virtel Right. But no, precisely. I would be right there. By the way, Talented Mr. Ripley was on TV last week. Man, we really like put Gwyneth in the Hitchcock glamor in that movie. The breakdown scene at the end when she’s having the final confrontation with Tom. That’s fabulous. Also, Gwyneth Paltrow. Come on, Keep It. We are nice gay men. Just talk to us.


Ira Madison III And I love Goop.


Louis Virtel I have that. Some of that botanical shit. I want skin that’s pearly, too.


Ira Madison III I want skin that’s pearly. Coming back to off-Broadway this fall.


Louis Virtel Pearly Burley.


Ira Madison III It’s Pearly Victoria starring Leslie Odom, Jr.


Louis Virtel What’s he up to?


Ira Madison III Staring with Pearly Victoria.


Louis Virtel Oh, okay. Got it. Got it, Got it. Oscar nominee twice.


Ira Madison III When you do a Broadway show, Louis, that is all you’re doing.


Louis Virtel Okay. Thank you so much.


Ira Madison III Eight shows a week.


Louis Virtel Is Sean hurt? No. I think Sean Hayes just finished up over there. He was. He was doing that accent like uptown about the Oscar Levant thing.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, Club Chalamet. Is there a cover to get in? Yeah. Maybe there should be a cover to get it. And then maybe all the insane thoughts can’t get in.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III We did a bouncer at Club Chalamet to protect our sanity.


Louis Virtel And maybe ours and our well-being.


Ira Madison III When we’re back, we are joined by Graham Norton.




Ira Madison III So it’s impossible for you not to know our guest today, he’s our favorite host, presenter, comedian, Eurovision commentator, you name it. He’s also an accomplished novelist who is back with his next great novel, Forever Home. Please welcome the Keep It, the legendary Graham Norton.


Graham Norton Hello, everybody. Hi, guys.


Louis Virtel And also your clutch. I’m going to assume tea right now, and I feel like we’re in a sort of Cabot Cove mystery klatch together, like bundled up together.


Graham Norton Sadly, it’s coffee. It’s coffee. I’m so sorry. It’s coffee. And also. And also, I’m in New York. I don’t know if you know, if you think this is exciting and you’re talking to me in some little, little cottage in Ireland. No.


Louis Virtel Right.


Graham Norton And the two things I should warn you about before we get going is, one, helpfully, they’re knocking a building down next door, so you might hear that. And also, my husband’s out. If he gets back at, the dog will go nuts. So you will hear that. Okay, so that was just so long as it’s motivated. I feel like sounds. If they’re motivated, it’s fine. It’s fine.


Ira Madison III So I live in New York, so they’re constantly hearing the the sounds of the streets. They’re hearing the Scorsese film from outside every day.


Louis Virtel So a light murder on our tail. Yeah, it should be cute.


Ira Madison III I want to ask about, you know, this is your fourth novel, and it’s so interesting to me that you are into writing, I guess, mysteries, cozy, ask mysteries. And we would assume that, you know, someone of your comedic background would write the traditional book of essays or something. Is that something that doesn’t appeal to you? What is it about mysteries that really has hooked you and you love writing them?


Graham Norton I mean, Cozy crime is kind of my jam. I like reading them. So, you know, writing one seemed a natural next step. I will say I am totally rare. As someone who interviews people. Talking about novels is so hard. It’s just miserable. Memoirs. Memoirs, easy. You just flick a page. Tell me that story. Novels are just like, Oh, come on, Who? Who listens? This is actually going to read a novel.


Speaker 6 Slay. Now we said it, Yeah.


Graham Norton I do, I do. I do feel for you. And I was thinking, you know, as an older gay, to some younger gays, like back in my day, you did the books that we would be drawn to. We would read Armistead Maupin and Tales of the City. Is there anything for the young gays now, or are they just all watching Heart Stopper? Is that is that where it ends?


Louis Virtel Wow. Well, yeah, We all reading something occasionally. Like I remember we all did Call Me By Your Name a couple of years ago. Like there Was that a Little Life thing? Yes.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Everyone in New York has been reading. And in L.A., too. I feel like everyone’s been reading the new Bret Easton Ellis.


Louis Virtel Oh, right, Right. The SHaards. Yes.


Ira Madison III So he’s still around.


Graham Norton Oh, okay. I’ll give that a whirl. I haven’t. I haven’t read that. Yeah. Okay.


Ira Madison III It’s long, it’s but it’s good.


Graham Norton Okay. You can long is fine if it’s good.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Now, you just talked about how it’s. It’s hard to talk about a novel when you’re interviewing somebody, but I think one of my favorite things about you is and I know that on talk shows, a lot of prep goes into an interview and you know what you’re going to talk about ahead of time and stuff, but you have such an amazing ability to build instant rapport with literally anybody. It can be a really young star or it can be like Judi Dench on her like 900th go around on these fucking things being like, Please entertain me even a little bit. And has that always been a gift? You’ve had something where you know, where you just kind of know you can get people on your side by talking to them?


Graham Norton Well, I, I think maybe it’s a slightly it is a kind of a gay thing, isn’t it?


Louis Virtel Totally.


Graham Norton It’s the one, it’s the wanting to be liked. Gene is quite strong and it’s the wanting not to be hit. Gene is quite strong. So it’s finding it’s it’s finding that kind of nuanced way through any social situation and trying to read the other person. You know, I think there’s a kind of a there’s a a straight alpha male thing where they don’t read situations. They are the situation. I’m here now. And and I think as gay men, we have to navigate the world in a slightly in a slightly more careful way, like who is this person? What will their attitude to being be like? You know, are they what’s what’s what’s our status to each other, all that sort of stuff. So, I mean, I don’t think about that when I’m doing the show, but I imagine some of that has informed having the role of of chat show host.


Louis Virtel Are there people you are particularly proud to have won over in conversation that maybe seemed, you know, stoic and unreachable at first?


Graham Norton And yeah, I mean, there are those kind of. Old Hollywood stars who you kind of thing. Here we go. Like Lauren Bacall. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she she was on and she was not happy. She was quite grumpy. And I remember the first time the first she was wearing, like, real pearls. And I didn’t know. Did you know this? That you’re not supposed to touch real pearls with your fingers. You’re supposed to wear gloves and then put them on because the pressure of the oils in your skin or something. So someone was doing her makeup and and, you know, the hand brushed pearls because face they’re pearls here. It’s going to happen. And she’s like, don’t touch the pearls. And then whatever whatever question you ask her about her life, she just went read the book and was like. So it’s quite hard. Quite a tricky interview. But then what was amazing and I just think this is so extraordinary, the next time she came on, she was like a different person. And what had happened was she’d got a dog and she was high as a kite on Dog Love. She loved that thing so much. And it was it was like night and day, the person. So I’m sort of back because I didn’t do anything to win her over. Just a dog. A dog unlocked that charm. So I guess that maybe that’s why someone put a basket of puppies in Mariah Carey’s dressing room. We don’t know.


Louis Virtel No. My friend is a huge Barbra Streisand fan. And he went to the premiere of The Mirror Has Two Faces and happened to walk past Lauren Bacall. And he goes to her and he shouldn’t have done this. He walks past her and he goes, I don’t mean to interrupt. And she goes, Then don’t. So like, she she’d been here before. Yeah. She is hair raising. When you, when you lose that Oscar to Juliette Binoche and you were waiting to get it, I don’t know. Maybe that changes the brain a little bit. Yeah.


Graham Norton It’s like she’s she’s Madonna before Madonna.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Right. Yeah. Time’s Betty Davis.


Ira Madison III Louis’s question actually made me think of, you know, what are my favorite people that you do interview. One of my favorite actors, Tom Cruise. And I would say that I feel like your first interview with him, you know, he had been sort of, I guess, you know, burdened by American interviews, post the Oprah thing. But I feel like watching in succession your interviews with Tom, you can see in that first one how comfortable you sort of make him because, you know, he’s I love that bit where, you know, he’s you ask what one liners of yours do people bring up to you often? And he’s like, oh, yeah, they bring up you know, they bring all of us up. And you’re like, I’m trying to get you to say, one. Do one. And then he does it, and then he has fun doing it. And then each time he’s come back, it’s like he’s more comfortable, you know, talking to people. And it was so intriguing to seeing him with Jude Law because, you know, Jude Law starts talking about how he was had to breathe underwater, doing like the the young pope and like that clicked him on like hearing someone else do a feat of human ability to be an actor.


Graham Norton Yeah. He loves he loves that stuff. And he has sort of become a friend of the show. And in fact, he did a really nice thing. I think it was kind of during COVID. I think his set had been shut down and he just came on our show for kind of no reason just to say the world is still the world. And, you know, there will be movies again and TV shows are happening. And so and it was a really you know, it was a great boost for us because, you know, during COVID, it was really hard doing the show, sometimes with no audience. Sometimes the guests were all on Zoom, sometimes they were on weird chairs with like eight feet between it. It was miserable. And so it was such a kind of kind lovely thing for him to do. And also, I guess it was a reminder to everybody that the movies would come back. But he I mean, I never get past I mean, I’m glad he looks more relaxed because I never get past the fact that it’s Tom Cruise in a way that that is really unusual. You know, I’ve had lots of kind of those big stars on and he’s about the only one where it doesn’t just become a man in a suit, whereas, you know, they stay funny and charming and talented and handsome and all those things. But they do eventually, you know, after a few minutes, just become some man sitting and then you’re just talking to them. But as he somehow retains that kind of mystique of being being Tom Cruise and he does a great thing, I’ve told this before, but I’ll tell it again. He does an amazing thing. And so on the way in, he gets out of his car and. The line producer goes out because. Hi, I’m Catherine. So glad you’re back on the show. So I get during the show, this is so-and-so who’s going to be the, you know, the floor manager who will get you on the set. And this is Pete, who did the research for your interview. This is so-and-so who’s going to help with your styling if you need anything and did the right thing 2 hours later when he’s leaving the studio. He’s going, Oh, thank you so much, Lindsey. Bye bye. Oh, Pete, thank you very much. Linda, Thank you very much. Oh, where’s Catherine? Where’s Catherine? So everyone who works on my show adores Tom Cruise. I don’t I don’t know their names, but Tom Cruise does. And it’s it’s you know, it’s a trick, but I haven’t bothered to learn it. I don’t know if you guys have. You know, and it makes people love him. And I think, you know, and there’s so much kind of negativity, I think, in the world about Tom Cruise and there’s so many weird articles and this and that. Does it add up? But if you talk to anyone who’s worked with him, they all love him. They all only have good things to say now, you know, That’s all I’m saying. I’m I’m not entering into that world any further. But all I will say is the evidence of people who kind of work with him. It seems to me that he’s he’s an okay person.


Louis Virtel But also, I think that speaks to what you’re saying about how you can never just think he’s a normal guy because there is this X factor of how can you be such an amazing politician in one regard? And then there’s this like strange mystique about you in the outside world connected to these, you know, like Scientology, etc., whatever, and it doesn’t cohere. He only adds to his own mystery is what’s happening.


Graham Norton He’s and also to enjoy life so much, but to have a clear death wish. That seems to be.


Louis Virtel Right. And to die in front of us.


Graham Norton Yeah, I’m happy to die. If people are watching. Is the camera rolling?


Louis Virtel I guess we should talk about Drag Race. And my main question about that is.


Graham Norton Oh, yeah.


Louis Virtel You know, as much as you’re judging people for basically doing a good job or, you know, it’s like any talent competition in some regard, it feels like drag is constantly being updated. There’s a lot to learn at any given stage about what, like, you know, is outdated or what is, you know, what’s the new thing coming up? Do you feel like you have to do a lot of research to keep up as a Drag Race judge?


Graham Norton None really at all. No, I know. I know nothing. And what’s great is the drag queens could not care less what I say or think. They they are. They are just like, you know, children pressed to the sweet shop window if RU or Michelle says something. But were me on Alan Carr where the you know, the rotating judges on the U.K. version we’re just like birdsong when we speak. They’re just you know, they’re thinking about their heels and my wings at heart. And then we stop speaking and then they focus again. But it’s interesting. I’ve seen RU and Michele change over time because, you know, now we get drag queens who don’t pad. We get drag queens, we don’t use breast plates, we get bearded drag queens. You know, all this stuff that wasn’t kind of part of Ru’s world and Michelle’s world. And and they’ve really embraced it. And I think it’s I think it’s interesting that they’ve done that. And it’s great for the show as well, because the show would become irrelevant if the show wasn’t kind of representing the drag that’s in the clubs and the drag, particularly in in in Britain, I think. And there’s a big drag scene in the in the east of London, and it’s proper old school club kids. You know, it’s sort of goes back to Kinky, Blinky and those nightclub nights in the in the eighties and it’s kind of kids doing that again and the liberal thing and all of that stuff And I think it’s great that Drag Race is representing that sort of drag. Otherwise it would just be I don’t know what it would be. It would it would be irrelevant.


Ira Madison III Mm hmm. It’s interesting. Yes. The idea of culture coming back circularly and how that’s affecting drag and how, you know, you’re just sort of there for the ride. You know, you mentioned interviewing like Lauren Bacall back in the day, and now you have, you know, a Taylor Swift, etc., people on your show. What would you say has changed the most about celebrity, I guess, since then, especially in how you interact with them on a talk show? Or is it do? Does it still feel the same?


Graham Norton I mean, in lots of ways it feels the same because there’s an audience. And really all we’re trying to do is tell some funny or interesting stories and please, a crowd. That’s all we want to do. And so I’m not you know, I’m not 60 Minutes. I’m not one of the you know, I’m not out to get the scoop. I’m just it is literally a chat. And we’re Shannon, we’re chatting. There’s a drink on the coffee table. And I want you to tell that funny story about the time you know, your rabbit run away or whatever. So I feel on one level that hasn’t changed. I think one of the things that has happened is stars now are slightly more cautious about what they say or what story they’re going to tell, because, of course, things don’t stay on TV. Things then get reported. So or quotes will be pulled and they’re not in context. So I will ask the question and what they say flows absolutely naturally from that question. But then if you take what they say and put in front of it, Taylor Swift slams Swifties or something, or, you know, Taylor lashes out at that editor. That’s exhausting for for for everybody. But it means that you’re kind of thinking, oh, you know, should I say that or what? I think people second guessed themselves a bit more now because of all the secondary reporting that goes on.


Ira Madison III That’s so interesting because I feel like in the earlier days of talk shows, was it not so much of a. Someone says something on a late night show unless it’s like truly incendiary. People aren’t really talking about it in the news the next day.


Graham Norton And also, people were watching. That’s the thing. You know, I’m very aware in this country, you know, if anybody’s seen my show, they’ve seen YouTube clips, you know, So everything’s out of context. You know, a YouTube clip starts and we’re all laughing. And I say, what? But what the fuck is going on there? Why are they doing it? Why are they calling such a good time? And and sometimes it’s frustrating because we you know, we make a 45 minute show, but it is consumed globally in these kind of little three, four minute segments. You know, and listen, we’re not complaining. It’s great that people do get to see it around the world. But back in the UK, there’s there’s 45 coal mining moments and there’s the hard work. Full face of chat. Yeah.


Louis Virtel Is there a huge star, a movie star, a TV star, something whom, if they wanted to, you think would be a great talk show host. But of course they will never do it because they’re too busy, you know?


Graham Norton Well, funnily enough, the person I used to always say was Kelly Clarkson. And now she’s got.


Louis Virtel Low and behold. Yes.


Graham Norton I think. I think she’s so great. She’s really chatty and good and. I mean, lots of them would be good at it. You know, I think particularly comedians, I think comedians kind of fit into it well, because they used to kind of, you know, crowd work and all that sort of, you know, talking to people who else would be good at it. And I mean, a lot of a lot of the kind of the more kind of, you know, an Emily Blunt could do it, I think standing on her head or who else? I mean, a bunch of them, you know, And also, it’s like I’m saying it just like the ability to defuze a bomb. It’s not rocket science. You know, you are you are sitting on a chair talking about who could do it? Who could possibly do it?


Ira Madison III Emily Blunt at least comes with a built in pun. But I like the name of her show. Right. Yeah. You know, the last.


Louis Virtel What a blunt conversation. Yeah, that’s right. Oh.


Graham Norton Stupid Blunt


Louis Virtel There we go.


Ira Madison III I want to shift gears a bit and ask this question. You know, as young gays sort of older gay to an out so one of our mentor gays.


Louis Virtel There we go.


Ira Madison III Lety me use that word instead. Like I’m Mariah Carey but I like you’ve mentioned earlier, you know that like your husband might come in and interrupt like the sound or something. And I remember reading like, you know, pre-COVID, like an old interview with you where you were talking about, you know, like dating as a public figure, especially a gay public figure and how you sort of didn’t see that as an easy thing for people to do if you were gay versus like a band dating a woman and you didn’t see that in the cards for you. So how do you feel now since you’ve been married for a year? And that’s sort of. Is much different from how you felt in 2015.


Graham Norton I mean, it’s one of those things, isn’t it? You know, when it happens, it happens. So I have spent I spend far more of my life single than I have in in relationships. And I suppose it’s every. Lots of decisions and lots of things become easier as you get older, you know? And I say this joke about, you know, when you’re getting married, the vows as you get older, much easier, you know till death do us part seems kind of achievable when you’re my age. Whereas if if you’re in your twenties, that’s a big ask to relate that that for the rest of my life. So so I think things like that make it easier. And also, you know, it just it felt right. It felt easy. It didn’t I didn’t the weren’t like I think if you’ve got to have long nights of the soul kind of thinking, should I do this? Should I do this? Chances are you shouldn’t. If it’s a nice, easy decision where you go, Yeah, let’s do that, then you’re probably going to do okay.


Louis Virtel And I have to ask about the fact that you’re going to be the host of Wheel of Fortune coming back in the UK. I am.


Graham Norton I know, how nuts is that?.


Louis Virtel I am an obsessive game show fan. I actually think Pat Sajak is one of the more underrated hosts we have, period over here. He does a really great job in the show and he’ll be leaving it soon. When I think about Wheel of Fortune, I think about you have to sympathize a lot with contestants who are doing poorly, sometimes for no reason, like just like the wheel keeps landing on bankrupt. And it’s like, I have to tell you that your life sucks right now, but that’s just how it is. And there’s, you know, there’s nothing you can do about it. Yeah. What do you think is the hardest part of that job, or what will be the hardest part of that job?


Graham Norton Oh, I don’t know yet. I mean, one of the reasons I said yes to it was because in the past I’ve done kind of game show pilots with new formats. And that is awful. That is where you’re in the middle of a game and you realize, oh, oh, this is why this won’t work. Like I was there was one game show. It was massive, this huge studio all of a sudden. And in the end, the audio script, at the end of each round, I would check the scores and I would go, okay, let’s check in with the scores. No one scored anything. No, I mean nothing. So I keep going. The end of a round. Well, let’s check in with the score board. It’s like, Yeah, Graham, we know. What’s up there? Nothing. So at least with this, these are this. I know that it’s a tried and tested format, so it’s just when we taped them in the winter. So I, you know, if I talk to you again, I’ll know more. I don’t know how I’ll fit into that world, but I like that I’ll be making a show with people who absolutely know how to make that show and know that, you know, the format works. Know there’s nothing wrong. There’s nothing wrong with the wheel. Let’s not fix it. Yeah.


Louis Virtel So there’s only 26 letters. They can’t really messed up from a contestant perspective, you know? They can’t be asking for Omega or whatever. And then it’s not a puzzle. Yeah.


Ira Madison III But you’ve also hosted, you know, some interesting game formats over time, too. I bet I was just looking up like the show Carnal Knowledge was. I feel like, you know, British shows. British shows. I feel like have a bit more of their more shows about sex or game shows, sort of about sex that Americans have really we’ve had the Dating Game ad we had singled out on MTV. But is that sort of a format that you feel is inherently British or do you feel like that’s a format even that you could redo now?


Graham Norton No, we couldn’t do it then. It’s true. It was kind of a filthy a filthy Mr. Mrs. Show that showed in the middle of the night. It was when one of our networks was experimenting with through the night viewing. And so there were and, you know, they realized that if you wanted to keep people awake, filth was a very good way to. So there were lots of raunchy shows. They would show these raunchy shows during the night, and that was one of them. That was my first ever TV gig, was being the co-host on Carnal Knowledge with my friend Maria. And it was like, television should not be that much work. It was. You would go home at the end of the night with like a splitting headache, as if you’d been doing something important all day rather than him encouraging a young person to draw doggy style in stick figures in the end. In the end we got so bored of doggystyle we know a different favorite sexual position where we’re not having it. I know it’s easy to draw, but no.


Louis Virtel I’ll be honest. I think we need that show. It has to come back here. It feels to good to.


Ira Madison III People are confused over here.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III People are confused over here about sex right now. I think we need to bring it back.


Louis Virtel Graham, thank you so much for being here. My God, you were as electrifying as we expected. And also, just when it when you have legendary stars on and we are concerned about people being interviewed well, here, you know, we just love that format. You are the primo person for it. But there’s a new awesome clip of you. I’m so excited to see it. You are so amazing at what you do.


Graham Norton That’s so kind of you. And I heard I heard the podcast you did about Eurovision. So thank you very much for all your kind words and for sticking with the many, many, many hours of Eurovision. So thank you.


Ira Madison III I’ve been a Eurovision fan for years that I do love it and I really love the whole afternoon that you just spend watching this entire thing. And I mean, hats off to you for having to do that American Idol style. And we’ll be right back with the votes for this country and then talking to every country to its it’s really an undertaking, but it’s fun.


Graham Norton I had a ball. And the great thing is I’ll never have to do it again.


Louis Virtel So any contest that Katrina and The Waves can win, I will be watching. That’s what you have to know about Eurovision.


Graham Norton It’s been a pleasure, boys. Thank you very much indeed.


Louis Virtel Yes. Come back anytime. Thank you.


Speaker 3 <AD>


Louis Virtel Olivia Rodrigo is back with her sophomore album, and the critics and fans seem to be loving it. But as you all know, their opinions don’t matter. Ours do. We’re here to voice those. So are we saying good for you, or do we think it’s a bad idea right? Ira, you’re up first. Talk about the teen girls to me. The woman is 20 years old. She’s 20 years old.


Ira Madison III Oh, so too young for Chris Evans to marry her, but not that young.


Louis Virtel What was the Internet freaking out about? The woman’s, like 26.


Ira Madison III 26 year old child. Louis Oh.


Louis Virtel That does exist, though.


Ira Madison III She had a wedding and their home room right after. Shame on you, Chris Evans. Now, anyway. Olivia Rodrigo, Pardon me. I’m going to have to go. I’m going to have to go and put on my Stan hat.


Louis Virtel First of all, I will never pardon you to do that again. Second of all, what is this? What does a stan hat look like? Is it a tricorn? Looking like Peter Pan over there?


Ira Madison III And it looks like it’s a it’s Robin Hood’s cap. There’s a feather in it.


Louis Virtel Oh, okay. Okay.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. I like this girl. I love her. I really do. And I am loving her even more because people are up in arms. The youths really gen-z and maybe some younger millennials, too, who are deranged. But there’s been comparisons to Avril Lavigne in etc. online this week, and I need to remind people that Avril Lavigne was also dragged and called, quote unquote, opposer back when we went to school. You remember when people would just lobby poser at people?


Louis Virtel Oh yeah.


Ira Madison III White people would do this obviously. The cool kids be like fucking poser.


Louis Virtel I’ll let me just say, I remember those days very vividly and I think no one denied that Avril Lavigne had the hooks because obviously those she had like all these huge radio hits in a row that that album that Go was a hit from the job. It took no time, but. I do think she interviews did herself some disservice regarding phrases like punk, which by the way, the idea that anybody from my generation cared seriously about punk is bizarre. So I don’t know what standard we were holding her to.


Ira Madison III But they didn’t care about Punky Brewster.


Louis Virtel That’s right. No Soleil Moon Frye, please. That’s barely millennial. But I will say this album, the Olivia Rodrigo album, I think is a better version of her last album, which I still liked. Lots of fun songs, funny lyrics, emotional lyrics. There’s like, there is a slight baby voice component, but she also has like a ghost component, which I think makes it more fun. Like the emotional songs. It’s almost like a spooky rave. This is the image that’s conjuring for me. But I do like also, and I think this is part of why people are maybe calling her calculated, which is, by the way, a word that is lobbied almost exclusively at female pop stars going back to Barbra Streisand when she traded Broadway for rock music. I do like that. It really sounds like the Mean Girls soundtrack. This, to me, sounds like a companion piece to Lilacs, which is, I think, a pretty good little moment in time.


Ira Madison III Yeah. You know, I get the comparisons with people who’ve come before her, but for me she just feels like a good student of music. This is the shit she grew up with. What else is she going to sound like?


Louis Virtel Mm, Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Ira Madison III You know. And I really do appreciate just her vibe. I think I feel like it’s I feel like she’s having fun. I feel like she’s not so self-serious. And maybe there’s the calculation going on there. But if you’re a pop star, everything is calculated. No one is. No one is making it to the pop star level. To be as big as Olivia Rodrigo is right now without, you know, some planning, right?


Louis Virtel No. I mean, like, I think the number one person in pop history who was called calculated as Madonna moving from style to style album to album, people think that that has an artificial quality to it when the fact is it’s just remaining fresh. It’s just basic business instincts in some ways. And I think you can be good at being calculated. You know, that’s what makes pop music fun. Like, what if I tried this out and I inserted this part of my persona? You know, it’s just like, I don’t know. It’s like pop is a perpetual costume party. You can dress up differently for it every day. Whip out new styles, and that’s the fun of it.


Ira Madison III Imagine hating being calculated anyway, because let me tell you something about millennials. We cannot count.


Louis Virtel Right?


Ira Madison III I need to know six plus four and I’m going to the calculator on my iPhone. We could all be more calculated.


Louis Virtel In my trivia league. You can see all your stats for what categories are best. And like you look at mine and you’re like, Well, look at this fagot. It’s like theater number one, film number, whatever. I used to be a really good math student. Math is what I am worst at. Now, I don’t know how this happened to me.


Ira Madison III Getting into the album, I feel like what I really love is. The lyrics are funny. I think she’s really fucking buddy. We talked about bad idea already because I was a single. But Get Him Back. Like my favorite on the album.


Louis Virtel Yes, mine too.


Ira Madison III It is so funny because I feel like it makes you think way like, Oh, you want to get him back because you miss him and it unfolds that way. But that it. No, I want to get him back so I can get revenge on his ass.


Louis Virtel Yeah, right, right. It’s pure pettiness and embracing it. Yes.


Ira Madison III The line where she says describes him as six, too, and says, Yeah, right. There’s just a fun, snarky quality to her, which is sort of refreshing in this post euphoria ish era where I feel like we were getting stuff that felt like it was pushed for teenagers, but it was try hard stuff for teenagers in that it’s very just here’s drugs. Here’s sex. Here’s them being all, you know.


Louis Virtel Euphoria High.


Ira Madison III Yeah yeah. It’s just a big despondent, etc.. You know, it is the opposite of that. And it feels youthful. It feels like it actually is saying something about what younger people are actually thinking in America. And it’s not all people writing for teens.


Louis Virtel Right, right, right. I also enjoyed people forget this at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction for Carly Simon, they had Olivia Rodrigo saying, You’re so vain now. In a way, it feels like some man took 2 seconds to be like, Who’s another person who sings disparagingly about man and thought about, Oh, there’s that song Driver’s License, that came out yesterday. Let’s just whip that girl in here. Mm hmm. She is a really good singer. I did not. I don’t know what I expected going into that performance. And not that, you know, You’re So Vain or some wild vocal showcase or anything, but it was a really credible, cool, fun performance. She really is in line with several generations of songwriters and the subject matter they’re interested in. So and again, she’s so fucking young, so I feel like this is just some starting blocks shit too. I’m really excited to see where she’ll go.


Ira Madison III Plus, You’re So Vain is sort of akin to her song Vampire, which some people think is about Taylor Swift. Some people think it’s about someone else. I feel like that’s a song in her catalog that people are going to be debating Who was this about forever? People are always doing with Carly Simon song, but I love that she said in this Rolling Stone interview that I don’t say who my songs are about and I’m never going to.


Louis Virtel Ding. Yes, period. Also, it’s like that’s what being a stand is all about. Let’s debate this forever. And then they stay on the other side of the fence and don’t acknowledge that, you know, in the way that, you know, what people think of me is none of my business. What’s what my stands are discussing is none of my business.


Ira Madison III Right. And I think that we also need to get to a point where we start asking her about other people in interviews.


Louis Virtel This album, though, has sent me into a trek back to when we were teenagers going into college. That particular era of not just Avril Lavigne, but, you know, Fifi Dobson, there was Ashlee Simpson, there was this very pop, very popular pop punk style punctuated by lady angst. And we got a lot of good stuff. And I think the best of it for me was the Veronicas. When they are that the singles in that I did, I did not know at the time. That’s a Max Martin album. So like the the reason the pop hooks are so tight on that on their first album, which I think is just called The Veronicas and their follow up album, which is called Fuck Me Up. Those songs are so fucking good forever. Everything I’m not when it all falls apart. And then on the second album, Untouched Spotless Music.


Ira Madison III And let me tell you something, they’re still untouched because the girls not touching them. The Veronicas. The Veronicas are it. I love. I love that era. I like the Donnas.


Louis Virtel The Donnas. Yes. Exactly.


Ira Madison III I wish The Donnas had had more post that first album, but Take It Off is a banger.


Louis Virtel Rowdy.


Ira Madison III Like an undisputable banger. And I saw like on Instagram that you would you were listening to like the the second Avril Lavigne album is so I feel like underrated now in retrospect, but that has so many fucking good songs the way it just like my happy ending is on it. And that’s what I feel like everyone talks about. And And Don’t Tell Me, Take Me Away, Nobody’s Home, Forgotten. These are songs.


Louis Virtel Yeah, totally.


Ira Madison III I used to listen to that album constantly.


Louis Virtel I feel like there should be a German word for something that used to be on the radio all the time. And then for whatever reason, you don’t hear it again. Like, I personally feel this is something happening with the song Havana, which we heard for a year and a half, and now you never hear it anymore. And I feel like it’s maybe the I don’t know about best song of the past six years, but certainly like a hockey will never forget, you know? So, like, why don’t I hear that song again and again?


Ira Madison III Shawn Mendes, his best vocals, his best song, to be honest. And that Ooh Na Nah . You’re going to make me listen to that fuckin song the rest of the day out.


Louis Virtel That’s how I hear. Yeah, right. Literally just saying the. Word puts that song in your head. But I was going to say I went through Avril’s catalog and I couldn’t believe how many songs I had forgotten about. If you would ask me off the top of my head how many hits she had, I would have said four. You know, like ending and maybe girlfriend or something. How about the song Hot? How about the song? What the hell? It’s just nobody’s home. I had completely forgotten about it at the time. I literally think I lumped it in my head with Behind these Hazel Eyes. It’s a sort of similar song, but Behind These Hazel Eyes, for some reason, I’m likelier to hear all the time. Also, Dan Levy, our friend, friend of the podcast, alerted me that he is in the video for Behind These Hazel Eyes. Oh, how weird is that?


Ira Madison III Yeah, that is. Speaking of what the hell? That is, I remember that song specifically because when that song came out, I feel like every gay person was saying to their friends, All my life I’ve been good. But now I’m thinking, What the hell? What a lyric.


Louis Virtel Yes. By the way, another song that I think is secretly very gay centric that didn’t get enough play at the time. Boyfriend by Ashlee Simpson. I think that is secretly the best song of her career. In fact, I like that second album, which is unfortunately entitled I Am Me, which is something you as a freshman in high school, call your poetry project.


Ira Madison III I love this Ashlee Simpson. I wrote a whole essay on Ashlee Simpson in my book. I am a big. Ashlee Simpson stan. Going back to autobiography. I mean, that was my Olivia Rodrigo when I was in high school, that that album just came out roaring. And then I Am Me with In Another Life L-O-V-E, Coming Back for More. These are these those are like L-O-V-E. That is another song that dominated TRL, the radio less. Let us not forget the Missy Elliott remix.


Louis Virtel Also, any song that begins with all my girls. Come on, I’m one of them. I’m one of the girls. You’re talking to me.


Ira Madison III That’s actually how they start hysteria every week.


Louis Virtel Right.


Ira Madison III Aaron, Gloria, Ryan going all my girls.


Louis Virtel Yeah.


Ira Madison III Instead of just.


Louis Virtel Putting putting our arms around no one in the studio.


Ira Madison III Which is very. It’s it’s so funny. Thinking about the Ashlee Simpson mishap on SNL, the lip synching thing because if she would have just the lips, if she had just been straight like I’m lip syncing and dancing, then no one would have cared. Right. Because there was a there was a clip going around of Madonna doing Vogue at the VMAs where she dressed as Marie Antoinnette. And someone’s right. What’s iconic about this is there is not a single mic onstage.


Louis Virtel Not even close. Now, that is on record you’re hearing. Yeah.


Ira Madison III And she gave an interview where she said, this is about the fantasy I am performing. I’ve never purported I mean, I’ve never said that I was doing this to be, you know, a singer. I never said that I was doing live music. And she said, I feel like the only people who complain about it are live performers who can’t get booked anymore.


Louis Virtel God, she used to be such an asshole. And it’s so funny. It’s so funny. Also about the Ashlee Simpson thing, the SNL mishap. So what happened was they ended up playing the tape again for Piece of Me or Pieces of Me, which she already performed, which sorry, Pieces of Me. I was going to say, it’s Pieces of Me.


Ira Madison III She was supposed to do the second single.


Louis Virtel If she had just lip sync, do it again. That would have been totally iconic. Like, we’re just doing the one song today. Yeah, maybe this one will be even better. Also, by the way, a clip. I am bringing up my friend Andy again. He posted a clip of Anna Faris in the movie Lost in Translation, where she gives a very funny performance that I feel like goes underrated. How did we not put Anna Faris on SNL at some point? And how was she not the person who played Ashlee Simpson the week after that? That would have been so perfect.


Ira Madison III Anna Faris is one of the greatest comedians outside, which is so funny that she talks about it, interviews how she didn’t think she was funny at all. She was cast in the Scary movie. So they had to coax that out of her on set.


Louis Virtel That reminds me of when we had Rachel Weisz on the show and I was like, some of the funniest line readings ever in the movie, The Fav, The Favorite. And she goes, I just I didn’t play it like it was funny. I almost didn’t even know it was funny. And it’s like, what the. But you did stop. How is this happening? How did you stumble into funny? Madeline Kahn Sort of similar. She would enter a room or a scene and people would start laughing immediately and she wouldn’t understand.


Ira Madison III Why it’s her thoughts or it’s her sashay.


Louis Virtel Yes, right. It’s the look in her eye. There’s there’s a tremor there that people recognize.


Ira Madison III Yeah, but I mean, to tie it back to Olivia, the. Oh, yes, the center of it all was because she was going for this whole I’m authentic, I’m Iraq or I’m different from Jessica Simpson thing, you know. And what’s great about Olivia is she plays her fucking instruments. She is a writer. Edit. It’s not just that authenticity thing. It is. It helps her write songs. You know, I remember Prince told Beyoncé that once, right? He was like, he was like, Just learn to play the piano and it will open up your world as a musician. And she did.


Louis Virtel And then Prince was like, Do you know what else opens up my world? I play every goddamn instrument in sight. Then he brought out like a fucking sousaphone and played it for her.


Ira Madison III And she was like, You know, I got a pass on that one. You know what he said his favorite song at the time, and obviously he passed. So he hasn’t gotten to hear any of her other music, but he fucking loved Speechless.


Louis Virtel Really?


Ira Madison III Off of Dangerously In Love. . Yeah.


Louis Virtel I literally prefer other songs called Speechless to that song.


Ira Madison III When she performed that during that tour, she was giving it her all, though. That’s a sexy performance of Speechless. I will put that out there. But yeah, that is. He loved that. And also, there’s a performance of the revolution during Sugar Mama from B-Day.


Louis Virtel That is pretty fucking rad, woof.


Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s a jam. That’s a song. That’s that. That’s a rock album, to be honest.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I think funny is the key component that makes this album rise above others of its ilk. And the pop hooks are extremely strong. I hope we get a whole throwback moment. I hope we get a band that sounds like the Donnas next.


Ira Madison III Yeah, it would be nice to see girl bands come back. Yeah. Let’s get. Let’s get a Donnas. Let’s get the Veronicas again. I’m just happy for this era of this music being the circular part of time that’s coming back because this was my high school music. I love this show right now.


Louis Virtel I think also a reason that music wasn’t that respected at the time was aside from rap in the 2000s, I think most musical genres felt like weaker versions of things that had preceded it. You know, like, like this era of women in pop and rock came well after, you know, the worlds of like Hall or Alanis Morissette or, you know, all those people. And, you know, at the time you might think, Oh, well, this is like it’s gone so mainstream, it doesn’t mean as much anymore. But now we can just look back at the music and not acknowledge it only for its place in pop culture. Now it’s just Was the music good?


Ira Madison III And I think that now that we understand that a pop hook is great and you have artists like, you know, a Charlie XCX, who tries to line up as a period piece. Yeah. Mm hmm. There’s now a bigger appreciation for a lot of the pop music of when we were younger, like, even like Britney song or Christina song, an N’SYNC song, the ones that were really well crafted. And you hear them again now, and you’re like, Wait, that’s a really fuckin banger song, you know? And I think pop could take something from that and really just learn to craft music that sonically sounds great, is funny, has a great hook, bring back hooks.


Louis Virtel I saw a clip the other day of N’SYNC performing in late 1996 when I think their first single had come out is I Want You Back. I think that’s the song.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel And and first of all, I didn’t realize that that song had come out that early. Justin They are dressed. It’s like on a German TV show because the single came out in Germany first. They are dressed.


Ira Madison III Luke Pearlman, pushed Backstreet and in sync in Europe way before they came to dominate the US.


Louis Virtel Yeah. And in this video they are wearing outfits that I’m going to call. Imagine a child in the Tour de France. That’s how tight these are. And I didn’t realize, like, Justin is performing this shit at 15. Like he was a child entertainer. You know, I mean, like, we know he was in the Mickey Mouse Club and stuff, but I didn’t realize he was up in the in sync stuff so young. Wow.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Those songs of age pretty well, to be honest. Listen to its exact catalog. Those songs have aged well and listen to B-sides on that album, on those first three N’SYNC albums. They are really great.


Louis Virtel Well, some of that music was like state of the state of the art at the time, too. Like, you think of like Dirty Pop or whatever. I mean that when that came out, I was like, Here it is like pop music of the moment, and it still feels like forward viewing in certain ways.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, when we’re back, our favorite segment, Keep It. And we’re back with our favorite segment of the episode. It’s Keep It. Louis?


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III What’s popping?


Louis Virtel Keep It. Angrily. Adamantly. Two Rotten Tomatoes. I We had never done much catch up on how much of a stranglehold Rotten Tomatoes has on people. How people when they’re looking to see if a movie is well received. They don’t read reviews. They don’t look past the tomato. They see a number and it stops there. And we assume that there is some credibility to it. There’s a reason it’s that number and we believe in it. Once upon a time, Meryl Streep gave an interview where she said, I looked into Rotten Tomatoes and I thought to myself, I wonder how many women have reviews on this site? And she said, if it were half women, that would make sense. If it were a quarter woman, I wouldn’t be surprised and ended up being something like a seventh of the reviewers on the site at the time were women. And she goes. Not only is that awful, but that sways box office. So like, men are basically dictating what is good and what is not good. Interesting point for Meryl. We love her. She seems like one of the smart ones. Well, there’s a new article this week in Vulture talking about it’s called The Decomposition of Rotten Tomatoes. The subhead says the most overrated metric in movies is erratic, reductive and easily hacked and yet has Hollywood in its grip. It goes into a story about how this movie, Ophelia, which is a feminist retelling of Hamlet starring Daisy Ridley, suddenly had a whole bunch of positive reviews sprinkled in, even though they were dubious reviews. And that moved the tomato meter to make it a fresh movie as opposed to a rotten movie. And then because of that, it got picked up and got different distribution. Anyway, this is such a completely hackable format. I don’t think Rotten Tomatoes tells us anything about movies, at least with Metacritic, a site I love. You get people who are reading these reviews telling you specifically how good the review is, putting them all in a row, and then you can decide for yourself what’s the most credible review? And the lineup is with Rotten Tomatoes. I’m looking at half of these authors, authors and periodicals, whatever, and I have no idea what they are. It’s just a site that has gotten away with putting itself in the center of pop culture, in the center of the cinematic universe for too long, and we just haven’t questioned it. Everyone just allowed it to happen. And now we’re hearing that studios or movie companies, whatever, are basically paying reviewers to give certain reviews so that it lands higher on the tomatometer and it’s sick. It sucks. It totally sucks.


Ira Madison III I mean, that’s not surprising at all, considering the whole confluence of it. The influencers who have been reporting on movies, on TikTok or Instagram, for instance, there was a other article about that recently in The New York Times. It kept calling them critics, which they’re not critics, they’re just influencers being paid by a studio to talk about a film. And that is, listen, it has its place, but that is not. Reviews. That’s not criticism. You know, if you want to talk about Rotten Tomatoes, you know, let’s let’s take that back to the theater where a tomato used to mean something.


Louis Virtel Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III If you brought a tomato into the theater and you Harold’s it act Ira Aldrich. Because you did not like, you know, his rendition of Othello. You were probably racist because he was the first Othello played by a black man. But it meant that you actually had to bring that tomato from your garden and hurl it at a pole. That’s right. You know, now he goes with a click. You’re. You’re hurling tomatoes and you’re hurling fresh tomatoes, too.


Louis Virtel Horticulturalists used to run this town and you knock over Sarah Bernhardt. You said, I don’t care if she has, like, a lame leg or whatever. Today she’s falling down.


Ira Madison III Now it’s online and it’s just there’s greens, greens, nothing but greens, cabbages, asparagus and watercress.


Louis Virtel Too much watercress is where I wanted to go with this conversation I’ve got there.


Ira Madison III Speaking of greens


Louis Virtel Yes.


Ira Madison III My Keep It is about a very healthy new drink that’s about to hit the market.


Louis Virtel What the fuck is this? Who are you Flo Rida with? You’re in on the on the du jour drinks?


Ira Madison III So Ice Spice has to do collaboration with Dunkin Donuts called the Munchkins drink because of her song. Munch.


Louis Virtel Yeah. Okay.


Ira Madison III Yeah.


Louis Virtel Barely works. All right.


Ira Madison III Let me tell you something about what is in this ad. So it gets blended, of course, but. The recipe includes a caramel drizzle on top. Whipped cream. A caramel drizzle inside the cup. Pumpkin munchkins the donut holes that help sell.


Louis Virtel Help me god.


Ira Madison III Coffee syrup, cream, liquid caned sugar. Water. A heaping cup of ice cream. Where is the coffee?


Louis Virtel Where is the drink? Yeah. Until we get to water, I’m like, How am I gulping?


Ira Madison III Miss America is right it on talking, but now it looks like America is running on diabetes and I need to know it. Did Ronald Reagan make this drink?


Louis Virtel That is really about Also, there’s a project in Chicago called Portillo’s. There’s a couple of branches out here, actually, and they have a very famous cake shake. Now, I don’t know what goes into that. I mean, like a full slice of cake. It’s a particular type of drink. But this munchkins that’s not drink. I mean, I’m like, pointing at the munchkins. That’s just it’s kicky material. I don’t know. I don’t know how that works.


Ira Madison III Pointing at the munchkins like Judy Garland. Get them away from me. These munchkins sound evil as well because. I can’t imagine drinking this. Should I drink it and report on it? I probably will.


Louis Virtel But I’d also. It’s pumpkin munchkins. Come on. Oh, yeah.


Ira Madison III The pumpkin thing is annoying. Like, what can I say. What about the pumpkin?


Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Also, they need to diversify the munchkin flavors. I think there’s still only, like, four of them, right?


Ira Madison III Yeah. Are you a Dunkin girl?


Louis Virtel Occasionally, if I’m at the airport, for example.


Ira Madison III You know. You know, and Dunkin used to be the biggest part of my life. It was Loyola, Chicago, because there was they at there was a Dunkin Donuts underneath the Loyola red stop line, which was directly across the street from campus. So whatever you would get home drunk, you would be there’d be a line of kids at Dunkin Donuts.


Louis Virtel You know what I like about Dunkin Donuts? So the display behind the person taking your order is just a, you know, a high and low shelf of donuts. And it to me, it feels like get ready in Old Wheel of Fortune, where when you would have your money at the end of the round, you would have to then shop for items on the stage. And so they would just like pan past this glamorous panorama of, you know, the car. What I mean? And then it went down to really cheap items like Dalmatian statuary or, you know, a pendant or something that you had to spend $20 on and you had to spend all your money so you would eventually waste your money on these small items anyway. I like when I’m at Dunkin Donuts and I’m like, I’ll take, you know, one strawberry, strawberry sprinkle, I’ll take you know, it’s just it’s fun. It’s like it’s like bell going through the books and Beauty and the Beast. We’re going high and low. They’re getting on the ladder. It’s a lot of fun.


Ira Madison III Do you think we’re going to see Ben Affleck drinking the munchkin drink?


Louis Virtel Oh, we haven’t seen him in a minute. So if he emerges with that, it would be brilliant.


Ira Madison III I would love a Ben Affleck – Ice Spice collabo.


Louis Virtel Yes, I would like to see them walking down a street despondently together. You need to get back into that. He and they will look past together. But hydrate.


Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could get a J-Lo Ice Spice song and then have been in the video.


Louis Virtel You know, she’s made that call. Please, if anybody’s doing a collab, it’s Jennifer Lopez. And by the way, should we do a secondary preemptive? Keep It to her tribute, apparently to Tina Turner at last night’s Video Music Awards. Now, we didn’t get to see it yet. We’re filming this on Tuesday, but I’m just saying, private dancer. That was not Tina Turner’s primary skillset, and that might be J-Lo’s. And I feel like I’m sensing a conflict here.


Ira Madison III Hmm. Yes. Tina was not much of a hustler, you know. Now, listen. She did hold audiences in her grip like an anaconda.


Louis Virtel Okay.


Ira Madison III I think, you know, we’re going to watch J.Lo doing that. And I’m going to say, okay, enough.


Louis Virtel We’re going to say, can you make a U-turn out of the stadium?


Speaker 6 Sure.


Ira Madison III These are bottom of the barrel puns we’re doing at this at this juncture. We need to end this episode. So thank you to Graham Norton for joining us this week. And we will see you next week. Hopefully next week there’ll be some restraining order against Club Chalamet and not us reporting on a funeral.


Louis Virtel Yeah, I mean, whenever we run into real journalism, things are not right at Keep It. That can’t be the case. Okay. See you next week.


Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord and our associate producer is Malcolm Whitfield. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third. And Louis Virtel.


Louis Virtel This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to our digital team, Meghan Paczel and Rachel Gaewski and to Matt DeGroot and David Toles for production support every week.


Ira Madison III And as always, Keep It as recorded in front of a live studio audience.