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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Coaston: It’s Thursday, August 7th, I’m Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day, the show shouting out the New Zealand Air Force for rescuing three people from a US research base in Antarctica, despite the complete darkness of Antarctic winter and temperatures at minus 10 Fahrenheit. On a related note, I will not be traveling to Antarctica in winter. [music break] On today’s show, Texas Dems face a bomb threat at their hotel as they protest redistricting votes. And the Department of Homeland Security lifts age limits on immigration and customs enforcement officers and offers some major incentives. But let’s start by talking about the Terrorism Confinement Center or CECOT. That’s the Salvadoran super max prison to which the Trump administration has deported hundreds of migrants. Officials alleged these men were violent gang members with little evidence. We are starting to hear the horror stories from some of the Venezuelan men who were sent there about four months ago, until they were abruptly released last month in a prisoner exchange. ProPublica published an interview with one of those men on Wednesday. His name is Juan José Ramos Ramos. He came to the U.S. legally during the Biden administration. Ramos says he was in the middle of his immigration case when he was deported. He says prior to his detention at CECOT, he’d never been to jail in his life. [clip of Ramos speaking in Spanish plays] He says there, all the officers would come in and beat you. Many times it was even the prison director who hit you. I can barely see through one eye from all the blows to the head. His story is not unique. In an interview with NBC News, three men sent to CECOT alleged that they suffered physical, psychological, and sexual abuse. At least one migrant sent to CECOT is starting the process of suing the US government over his detention in El Salvador. And then there’s Andry José Hernández Romero. His story garnered national attention after his arrest. He’s a gay makeup artist who was seeking asylum in the US because of his sexual orientation. Since his release from CECOT, Romero has said he faced constant harassment in the prison because of his sexual orientation, so to talk more about CECOT and what the men our country sent there endured, I spoke to Melissa Shepard, Director of Legal Services at the Immigrant Defenders Law Center. She is one of Romero’s legal representatives. Melissa, welcome to What a Day. 

Melissa Shepard: Thank you so much for having me. 

Jane Coaston: You represent Andry Romero, a Venezuelan makeup artist who was sent to CECOT. He’s been speaking out since returning, but can you tell us a little bit about his story and how he ended up there? 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, sure. So, Andry fled Venezuela last year and came to the US border seeking asylum and he did it the way he was supposed to. The administration at that time rolled out the CBP-1 application. He waited patiently for an appointment, appeared for his appointment, and unfortunately, he never stepped foot freely in the US and was immediately sent to an immigration detention center. He actually came to the United States seeking asylum because as a LGBT individual, um he was persecuted in Venezuela and he also fled for political reasons. So he came to the U.S. seeking safety. He was detained and he began looking for legal representation. We began representing him late 2024 and had already filed his asylum application when in March, he was sent to Texas without any notice to us, without any notice to him. And now in hindsight, we’re realizing he was told that he was being taken to a better place when in fact he was been staged in Texas for one of those flights that went to the notorious prison in El Salvador. 

Jane Coaston: Now a big thing that was part of his story, and I feel ridiculous asking this, is that he was accused by the United States government of being a member of a Venezuelan-based gang called Tren de Aragua. And the evidence they used were his tattoos. Can you talk about his tattoos and why they were an issue? Please note. I feel like an idiot asking you about this because it’s so ridiculous, but I think it’s important to explain. 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, I mean, I think at this point, everybody has seen Andry’s tattoos, but when he presented himself for the CBP-1 appointment and was detained, he immediately went under an interview where they asked him a series of questions, including, are you a gang member? Have you ever been associated with this gang? All of which he denied. But for the simple fact that he had some tattoos, gave him enough points on this scale that they were using to determine that he could be affiliated with the Tren de Aragua gang. He has a few tattoos, very artsy types of tattoos. He’s got a snake, butterfly, flowers, um but most notably he had tattoos on each of his wrists that were crowns, and one said mom, one said dad, and those crowns are actually associated with a Three Kings Festival that he has celebrated in his hometown since he was a young child. 

Jane Coaston: Your firm ended up representing seven other men who were sent to CECOT. What have Andry and the other men told you about their experiences? 

Melissa Shepard: They were told initially that they were being sent to Venezuela. And so when the plane landed in El Salvador and they were told to get off of the plane, they did not want to get off. They knew that this is not where they should be. But the moment that they stepped off of the plane onto those stairs to exit the plane. They started receiving beatings and the beatings didn’t stop for 125 days. The conditions they described as they were intaked, their heads were forcibly shaved. Men were falling over on their knees. They were handcuffed. They were crying. They were only given five seconds to take off their clothes so that they could put on their new prison uniforms. They shared how the lights were never turned off in their cells. All night long, they had trouble sleeping. The guards would bang their keys on the cell so that couldn’t continue sleeping. Um. Anywhere from from sleeping to the food, they experienced absolutely brutal conditions. 

Jane Coaston: And to be clear, none of the men that your firm is representing had a criminal record, correct? 

Melissa Shepard: Right. Including Andry, these men did not have any criminal convictions. And Andry, in particular, had never been arrested. He had never stepped foot inside of any type of prison or jail, either here or in any other country. So it was an absolute shock for him to go from a person who was free to detained in the United States in an immigration detention center to CECOT, um you know which is one of the most notorious prisons in the world. 

Jane Coaston: Right. It’s a prison that’s supposed to be for like hardened criminals who will never get out. But I wanted to ask because one of the other things, I mean, there’s so much horrible about this case. But something that really struck me was how people didn’t know that their loved ones have been sent to CECOT. And I was curious, did you or your colleagues have any access to your clients while they were there? Because you were already representing Andry beforehand. 

Melissa Shepard: Correct. 

Jane Coaston: When did you find out he was there? 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, so Andry actually had an immigration court hearing on March 13th. At that point, he’d already been sent to Texas and he did not appear for his hearing. The Department of Homeland Security had no explanation as to where he was. We were able to speak with him that afternoon and told him that his hearing had simply been rescheduled to the next week. Um. We started hearing grumblings about these flights being taken to El Salvador, but in fact had zero access whatsoever, despite our request to give us access to our client. 

Jane Coaston: Now, all of these men are now back in Venezuela. Are they back with their families? I know Andry Romero’s mother was desperately pleading for his return or even just to know how he was doing. There was a really interesting back and forth between representative Robert Garcia and Kristi Noem in Congress being like, can you tell Andry’s mother that he’s okay? And she was like, I’ll have to look into that. So how are they all doing now? 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, fortunately, all we have confirmed that all of our clients have um been able to be returned to Venezuela. They’re with their families. A lot of them have reported that, in particular, their mothers have had a really tough four months without their children there and have described that they found their family members who had lost weight, who had become really depressed. And so I think it’s a healing journey for for not only the men, but their families as well. 

Jane Coaston: I mentioned that Andry Romero, the makeup artist we’ve been talking about, is speaking out and he was quoted in The Guardian as saying, we have to clear our names. Now, to be clear, he didn’t do anything, but how is he trying to move forward? 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, so I think what you’re referring to, Andry, in particular, is really referring to the fact that for the last four months, him and these other men have been called terrorists. He wants to clear their name because he’s saying, you know, I have no criminal record. I have zero association at all with Tren de Aragua, and I want to make that really clear to the world. We are not bad men. And we are human beings. He is sharing his story so that people know what happened to them and so that it doesn’t happen in the future to others. 

Jane Coaston: The release of these men was really sudden. What do you know about the prisoner exchange that led to their freedom? And do you know if other people are still being sent to CECOT? 

Melissa Shepard: Yeah, the the you’re right. The prisoner release was very abrupt. And in fact, other attorneys who were representing some of these men had no idea this was happening. So my guess is as good as yours as to why they were actually finally released. But it appears that it was as part of a prisoner swap. And it’s clear that these men were being used as leverage the entire time. And I think it goes to show that the U.S. did have custody over these men, despite the government denying so for the last four months. 

Jane Coaston: And do you know if the U.S. is still sending people to CECOT? 

Melissa Shepard: Uh. As far as we know, um we have not received any reports that they are still sending men to CECOT, but I can tell you that the government is using the tactic of sending folks to third countries. Even when they have relief in the United States, they’re being sent to third countries that will accept them. And um you know, the men who are sent to CECOT really want to share their stories so that this does not continue to happen, whether it happens in El Salvador or if it happens in Sudan, we don’t want this to continue to happen. 

Jane Coaston: The ACLU has filed a lawsuit arguing that these men were denied due process. Do you know where that case stands right now? 

Melissa Shepard: Correct. Yeah I, you know, there’s a lot happening with that case at this time. I know Judge Boasberg did say that these men had their due process rights violated. And so the government was supposed to return with a way in which they could provide some remedy to these men. And so I think it’s going to be a case that we’re going to be following very closely. As you can imagine, some of these men never want to return to the U.S. after being betrayed and sent to a torture prison. Um. But at the very least, we want to know what their options are and are going to be taking a close look moving forward. 

Jane Coaston: Melissa, thank you so much for your time. 

Melissa Shepard: You’re very welcome. Thank you. 

Jane Coaston: That was my conversation with Melissa Shepard, Director of Legal Services at the Immigrant Defenders Law Center. We’ll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple podcasts, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: Here’s what else we’re following today. 

[sung] Headlines. 

[clip of President Donald Trump] We had some very good talks with President Putin today, and uh there’s a very good chance that we could be ending the round, ending the end of that road. That road was long and continues to be long, but there’s good chance that there will be a meeting very soon. 

Jane Coaston: That was President Trump speaking to reporters at the White House on Wednesday in his very normal way. According to multiple outlets, the president could meet in person with Russian President Vladimir Putin as soon as next week in an ongoing effort to broker an end to the Russia-Ukraine war. Trump, of course, wouldn’t say how close he was to reaching a deal, but said, quote, “I’ve been disappointed before with this one.” Trump’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, met with Putin in Moscow on Wednesday. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky later said he spoke with Trump on the phone about said meeting. Witkoff and Putin’s meeting comes before the White House’s looming deadline for Russia to reach a peace deal with Ukraine, or potentially face severe economic penalties that could also hit countries buying its oil. But knowing Trump, there’s always a chance the deadline gets pushed. Because what is it? Oh yeah, probably two weeks. Because it’s always two weeks. A meeting between Putin and Trump would be significant. It would be their first since Trump returned to office. 

[clip of Ramon Ramero] When people use the dog whistles, like hunt them down, there are people that are willing to do that. 

Jane Coaston: That’s Texas State House Democrat, Ramon Romero, speaking to MSNBC Wednesday morning. He and other lawmakers were forced to evacuate the Illinois hotel where they’re staying because of a false bomb threat. They’re in the state to block a Republican redistricting push in Texas. A statement posted to the Texas House Democrats official Twitter account read, quote, “we are safe, we’re secure, and we’re undeterred.” The lawmakers fled Texas Sunday to prevent the Republican counterparts from doing President Trump’s bidding and passing a new congressional map to help him in next year’s midterms. The situation has escalated quickly. The state’s attorney general is threatening to expel the Democrats who fled if they’re not back by Friday. Trump told reporters Tuesday, federal agents, quote, “may have to get involved” and Republican governor Greg Abbott asked the state’s all Republican Supreme Court to oust house Democratic leader Gene Wu from office. Wu told CNN late Tuesday that Abbott’s actions are, quote, “purely insanity.” 

[clip of Gene Wu] What we’re looking at is a governor who is conspiring with a disgraced president to use unconstitutional, illegal, racial gerrymandering to destroy our communities. I have a duty to respond to that. I have an obligation to do everything I can to stop that. 

Jane Coaston: Texas’ nakedly partisan push to redraw their congressional districts has set off a chain reaction of other states threatening to do the same. Vice President J.D. Vance is set to visit Indiana today to talk to lawmakers there about redistricting. For Democrats, their best bet to counter Texas is in California. State lawmakers there are weighing maps that could net the party five seats. 

[clip of Kristi Noem] This is one of the things that I’m so excited about because we’ve seen our ICE officers be terrorized by activists, by violent people who want to do them harm and they have continued to go out bravely and do their jobs and make sure that they’re upholding the rule of law. 

Jane Coaston: Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem wants you to join her team. The GHS is looking for a few good folks to join ICE. To encourage people to apply, Noem announced Wednesday the agency would waive the age limit for applicants. It’s unclear how old one can be to be considered for a job with ICE, but the cap is now gone. The max age for a new hire used to be one day shy of 37 years old, in case you cared. In a press release, DHS explained that it lifted the age cap so, quote, “even more patriots will qualify to join ICE in its mission to arrest murderers, pedophiles, gang members, rapists, and other criminal illegal aliens from America’s streets.” But not like white pedophiles or rapists. So don’t worry about those. The benefits package is pretty sweet, too, including a maximum $50,000 signing bonus and quote, “administratively uncontrollable overtime for deportation officers.” I’m not sure exactly what that means, but the recruitment push is being funded by Trump’s big beautiful law, which includes $170 billion for immigration efforts and border security. So who cares about how much all of this costs? DHS says it now has 80,000 applicants for 10,000 positions. 

[clip of Brian Bedford] I’m not here to DOGE the FAA, okay? That is not my gig, that is not what the president asked me to do. The president asked to fix it. Whatever resources you need, let’s get it fixed. 

Jane Coaston: In a private town hall, Trump’s new federal aviation administration leader repeatedly took shots at DOGE. You guys remember DOGE, right? The Department of Government Efficiency, Elon Musk, weird people. What a Day newsletter writer, Matt Berg, attended the town hall on Wednesday and reports that FAA Administrator Brian Bedford denounced DOGE’s cost-cutting mission and told staffers his agency instead needs to be built up. 

[clip of Brian Bedford] Anybody who thinks, oh gosh, efficiency is going to mean fewer jobs just isn’t paying attention, right? The agency has got a huge growth mission ahead of it. 

Jane Coaston: His comments come after job cuts at the FAA prompted employees to leave en masse and concerns about air safety in the wake of deadly crashes earlier this year. The FAA is planning to overhaul decades old equipment that’s often blamed for airplane communication issues and malfunctions. Trump’s big, beautiful law set aside more than 12 billion dollars for that effort because broken clocks once a day, you get it. But some aviation workers say that’s not enough. Bedford said he’s set to talk numbers with Office of Management and Budget Director Russell Vought today. And that’s the news. [music break]

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Jane Coaston: That’s all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, congratulate Major League Baseball’s first female umpire, and tell your friends to listen. And if you’re into reading, and not just about Jen Powell, who will be the first woman to serve as an umpire for a regular season Major League baseball game this weekend, like me. What a Day is also a Nightly Newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com/subscribe. I’m Jane Coaston, and before officially making it to the big show, Powell was the first female triple-A baseball umpire in 34 years, and was the 1st female umpire in spring training since 2007. Unfortunately, her reward will be umpiring 3 Atlanta Braves games this weekend. The Braves are 47 and 65. Sorry Jen! [music break] What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It’s recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Fohr. Our producer is Michell Eloy. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Gina Pollock, and Laura Newcomb. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our senior vice president of news and politics is Adriene Hill. We had help with the headlines from the Associated Press. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [music break]

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