Election day is here: Kamala Harris makes SNL appearance, jury convicts former officer Brett Hankison of using excessive force on Breonna Taylor, a debate on celebrity in politics, and an ode to late music icon Quincy Jones. Kaya interviews Cassandra Welchlin, executive director of Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable.

 

News

2024 Pre-Election Cold Open – SNL

Quincy Jones, musical titan and entertainment icon, dead at 91

Off With Their Instagram! The Death of Celebrity Worship

Jury convicts former Kentucky officer of using excessive force on Breonna Taylor during deadly raid

 

Follow @PodSaveThePeople on Instagram.

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

[AD BREAK]

 

DeRay Mckesson: Hey, this is DeRay and welcome to Pod Save the People. On this episode it’s me, Don, Myles, and Kaya talking about all things related to the election. We generally talk about race, justice, and equity. But it is Election Day. We finally made it to Election Day. A historic election. There’s a lot to talk about. And then Kaya sat down with Cassandra Welchlin, executive director of the Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable. Here we go. [music break] Did you know that when voters cast a ballot by mail, if a requirement isn’t met like a missing signature, it gets rejected. And if a voter doesn’t take action to, quote, “cure or fix their rejected ballot,” their vote doesn’t get counted. During big elections, thousands of mail in ballots are often thrown out. And right now, thousands of voter’s ballots are facing these issues and a ton of them may not even be aware of those errors or the deadlines to cure them. And that’s why we need your help reaching these folks, because this election is going to come down to a tiny margin and a lot of these key battleground states. The ballots we can cure right now could be the tipping point in taking back the House or stopping Donald Trump from being president. Take action right now and help cure ballots at VoteSaveAmerica.com. This message has been paid for by Vote Save America. You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com. This ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Happy Election Day and welcome to another episode of Pod Save the People. Today we are going to get a new president one way or another, and we are happy to be talking election coverage with you today. I’m Kaya Henderson at @HendersonKaya on Twitter. But not for long. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I am Myles E. Johnson at @pharaohrapture on Instagram, and I want to know why not for long when we’re done. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Sure. Uh Elon has gone too far for me, but that’s basically why. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: This is DeRay @deray on Twitter. 

 

Don Calloway: This is Don Calloway at @thecaucusroomDC and @DCalloway on Instagram. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Hey everybody, this is our Election Day episode. It feels like we have been counting down to Election Day for a long time and we are finally here. You’re listening to this on Election Day. So y’all lets do our final round up before we figure out the country, if there will be a country or not because that is where we are. And shout out to Kamala on SNL. I’m just so impressed with the sheer campaign of the campaigning, the campaigning of the campaign to pull off a surprise SNL, especially for Kamala, who they hid for three years. We never, Kamala, we didn’t really see Kamala. [laughter] And then she comes out as the presidential nominee. Swinging [?], I’m here for it so, what do y’all got? 

 

Myles E. Johnson: She has a little James Brown spirit in her. Because I’m like, goodness gracious. And then I opened my YouTube and the YouTube live is there and she’s in Michigan. And I’m like, where are you? Are there three of you? How are you? How exactly are you doing this um. [?] When I tell you I’ve been trying to, like, bottle myself in from talking about it because, you know, when I get excited. That was the most beautiful thing that I’ve ever seen in American politics. I don’t know what the consensus is with everything, but as far as I’ve been alive, short of when I saw Obama walking down with Michelle Obama and waving her um flags when I tell you how it looked. The the excitement of it all. I feel like she’s been like dodging po– like, you know, like identity politics she’s been dodging calling herself a woman, calling herself Black. Like she’s been dodging all of that. But that uh just that visual of her with those big, thick fabriced American flags between her and that out-of-focus White House and her just looking so stunning. I was I was sold just on um just on marketing. Shout out to the elite of the of the of the liberals, y’all did that. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I was out there. It was spectacular. This is why I love living in Washington DC, because you get to be–

 

Myles E. Johnson: Okay.

 

Kaya Henderson: –part of historical moments. But we went down there and it was first of all, it was packed. Most people didn’t even get in. And you saw how many people were inside. People had been lining up, you know, since that morning. In fact, there was a woman from Brooklyn, I think, who came down at 7:30 in the morning, and she was like, I’ve never been to a political rally at all, but I had to be here for this. Honey, the people were out. Every shape, size, color, pink, purple, polka dotted in every kind of gear. It was America. It was beautiful. Like the energy and excitement were super high. Like, it was just it was um it was heady. It was it was like you felt amazing. Um. And that spirit of hope. I just I mean, we haven’t felt that in a while um or it feels like we haven’t felt that in a while. 

 

Don Calloway: Yeah look she’s going to win this election. And I, these things break hard at the very end. I’ve been around long enough to have seen that time after time, and I am detecting the signs that you begin to see when the things are breaking hard. The Ann Seltzer poll out of Iowa yesterday. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Oh yeah. 

 

Don Calloway: Was extremely instructive. I mean, she is an extraordinarily conservative pollster, not conservative, meaning her politics, but conservative in the way she captures political polling. And she’s always right. Um. And you have to imagine that there’s a margin of error baked into that. So if she’s up three, there’s some universe in which she could be up four and a half, five, five and a half points in Iowa. Um. I am hearing from the good folks doing the work on the ground in Georgia and in North Carolina that both of those states look extraordinarily handsome for her. As my friend Antjuan Seawright says, um I think that she may struggle in Arizona and perhaps even Nevada. You have to remember that Arizona has um a very good Republican governor who is doing actual ground game in a way that you’re not really seeing ground game in the rest of the Republican universe. They have conceded that territory to Ben Shapiro and Elon Musk and Tucker Carlson, which is kind of crazy. And organized people always beats organized money. Even if that organized money is on the airwaves. And so I’m seeing that work happening in Georgia. I’m seeing that work happening in North Carolina, which looks really good, seeing that work happening in Philly and Pittsburgh with uh the Black communities getting engaged there in a real way. I think she may struggle in Michigan, but with North Carolina on board, you have to remember that jackass Lieutenant governor, his challenges have brought down Trump and that party uh as he runs for governor. And as you have a Josh Stein running a really good race for governor. So I really think, all things considered, these things break hard. They break at the last minute. He has done nothing to expand his coalition. She has done a lot to expand her coalition. She’s going to win this election so soldiers be encouraged and of good cheer because 48 hours from now, all of us will feel very good and she will have clearly won this thing. Now, the question of whether or not he will accept that is another one for another day. But I think that uh Wakandan America can breathe easy uh and we will see that soon. 

 

Kaya Henderson: [laugh] Oh.

 

DeRay Mckesson: I do want to I want to talk about the voter suppression though. Have you all seen like the blowing up the mailboxes? 

 

Kaya Henderson: Mm hmm. 

 

Don Calloway: Yeah. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Florida is telling the DOJ that they do not have the right to monitor, like, election sites. And I’m like, Biden, you should send in the National Guard. I’m all about it. Like, we should play as hard as we possibly can play on this one. Uh. In Florida, they are having incredibly long lines for early voting in some parts and not in other parts. The voter suppression that I’m seeing is just so wild. 

 

Kaya Henderson: But I mean, you and you said it some weeks ago, right? The only way they win is they cheat. And I think, um you know, America is mobilized. When you see how many I them first of all, I don’t know many pe– I know like political people who, like go canvas and get on busses and go to whatever like regular people are out in droves helping in Pennsylvania and North Carolina and places like that. I, I just think that there is this universal spirit that is happening um and you you can’t suppress that. In fact, the harder you try, the more explosive it is. Look at look you know who I was excited about this week is the Puerto Ricans honey. [laugh] Boricua’s forever because [laugh]–

 

DeRay Mckesson: Whoa. That that comedian really screwed up. [laughter] Helped us out though. 

 

Don Calloway: Yeah. He messed up. He messed up. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Ooh [?]. 

 

Kaya Henderson: But at the same time, like, Trump’s going to blame it on him, right? As though, no, it’s not that idiot’s fault, you know, it’s uh it is you and the ethos you create. I can’t wait to hear Trump blame that one jackass with a bad mustache who we’ve never known before or since. 

 

[clip of unnamed news reporter] So you have this big event at Madison Square Garden. Went on for hours. Um. I don’t even know if you were there for the whole thing. I don’t know what time you got there. I was told and made aware that you had no idea about this comedian who made comments. 

 

[clip of Donald Trump] I still have. I have no idea who he is. Somebody said there was a comedian that joked about Puerto Rico or something, and I have no idea who he is. Never saw him. Never heard of them and don’t want to hear of him. But I have no idea. They put a comedian in, which everybody does. You throw comedians in. You don’t vet them and go crazy. It’s nobody’s fault. But somebody said some bad things. Now what they’ve done is taken somebody that has nothing to do with the party, has nothing to do with us, said something and they try and make a big deal. But I don’t know who it is. I don’t even know who put him in uh and I can’t imagine it’s a big deal. I’ve done more for Puerto Rico than any president I think that’s ever that’s ever been president. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Doesn’t matter whether he knew him or not. This the he they put him on the stage. He said the thing and even J.Lo had to come out who’s never endorsed a political candidate. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Not even J.Lo. You so funny.

 

Kaya Henderson: Even J.Lo honey. [laughter] Oh I love it.

 

DeRay Mckesson: And Katy Perry will be appearing in Pittsburgh on Tuesday or no on Monday. In Pittsburgh today uh supporting Kamala at the rally. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I noticed it at the rally. But um I feel like for all of the she has tried to be not woman, not Black, not whatever, whatever she subtly is setting in the signs, honey, because her watch party is at the mecca Howard University. Streets in D.C. shut down this evening at 7:00. And I mean the amount of Howard kids who were at that rally, I feel like the whole university, there were so many young people, young Black people. It was just beautiful. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead Myles.

 

Myles E. Johnson: No, no, no, no. And I think that because she’s not outwardly articulating um her her her Blackness and her woman or her womanhood for like political advantage or to as um some type of like bat signal of goodness, I think that she’s doing covert things [electronic sound plays in background] that make for smarter media. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: I actually love too, do you remember when she did that interview when um when the interviewer tried to press her and she was like, I’ve already answered that. I’m like, Kamala, you have turned me into I already liked you. You turned me into a super fan. I’m here for it. I’m like and even with Maya, one of my favorite tweets about her on SNL was um so when Maya turns around, looks at the mirror and then Kamala just starts laughing. I’m like, I actually love–

 

Kaya Henderson: They could not stop laughing. Couldn’t stop laughing. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Yeah you started laughing before you even said anything Kamala. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

 

Don Calloway: Look I am a–

 

DeRay Mckesson: I love it. 

 

Don Calloway: I am a big time SNLologist. And that was just that was [kiss sound] it was chef’s kiss. Ten out of ten highly recommend. No notes. I don’t know how any of it could have been any more perfect. I thought it was wonderful how um I think Lorne Michaels or whoever the head writer Michael Che, certainly as a head writer, I think they understood the magnitude of the moment and there were no other actors in that scene. Usually you have like a vice presidential person hanging around or like a an aide saying, hey, Madam Vice President, somebody’s here to see you. None of that, I think they understood that first of all, you have two really talented people who happen to be Black women in this moment. And I think the show really captured the magnitude of it. And I saw that there were other SNLologists in the audience because when they break the barrier of the mirror and they come together, that is that classic scene where, you know, Dana Carvey and George Bush come together and, you know, Will Ferrell and Bush Junior come together and Hillary Clinton and um uh the sister who’s BFFs with Tina Fey, Hillary Clinton and that woman come together so that [?]–

 

Kaya Henderson: Amy Poehler. 

 

Don Calloway: Amy Poehler. Yes. Tina Fey and Sarah Palin. So SNL does this every four years. They find a way to bring those two together and for them to be them two [?] sisters standing there, I just was heart warmed. It was in the grand tradition of SNL and everything it does. And I just thought I thought it was really, really special. So I kind of nerded out there for a second. Forgive me. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: I was saying I love that they matched the hair color. Maya’s wig they had–

 

Don Calloway: Yes. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: –Kamala’s hair–

 

Kaya Henderson: Mm hmm. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: –down. 

 

Don Calloway: Yes. She was laid out. Both of them. Both of them just looked. It was amazing. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: No, that is such a, you know, collectible Black culture, pop culture moment, you know, because Maya Rudolph, amazing comedian. But, you know, just, you know, she’s she’s she’s R&B royalty, like by way of her mother, Minnie Riperton. And– 

 

Don Calloway: Yes indeed. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: –just the idea of the first Black uh woman president in a in a comedic moment with you know, Minnie Riperton’s daughter who’s also just just comedian comedic giant in her own right. It was just beautiful to see. Um. And, you know, cynical me also specifically when we think about Katy Perry and J.Lo, I don’t know. I really hope in four years there’s a different strategy. I feel like I say this every episode now. I get if you if you got a friend who got a few million followers, call them up. I totally get it. Do whatever you got to do. But I promise you, Jennifer Lopez, not even that these celebrities aren’t doing anything for the campaign. I can promise you within four years time that I I feel like a lot of these celebrities will actually harm the campaign. There’s no way that Katy Perry cannot say something about Dr. Luke and then I care about her moral appeal for who she thinks should be should be a president specifically, when we’re talking about women’s rights. J.Lo can’t tell me nothing. You know, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. [?]

 

Kaya Henderson: Can I say, can I say can I say one word? Can I say one word?

 

Myles E. Johnson: Mm hmm. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Beyonce.

 

Myles E. Johnson: No. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Beyonce. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: But the thing about but the thing about it and I said this [laughter] I said, I said that I said this last week, too. I said, I, Beyonce’s political weight. I think that it’s overstated. And I think that–

 

DeRay Mckesson: But Myles, do you think you’re the minority?

 

Kaya Henderson: Right. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Do you think that this is the I don’t know if I think I don’t I think you’re right about the contradictions of people, but I don’t think the vast majority of voters are or definitely not the undecided on the couch people. I don’t just like Sexyy Red, GloRilla, Cardi B was out there you know like. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Cardi B, Cardi B laid it out. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah, no um, I don’t think I’m in the minority. I think that I’m in as I think I’m in a silent majority. I think that I think I think most people on the Internet and how we get our um how we get our media, how we get our celebrity culture. Most people are interacting with celebrity culture in some way via via disgust or celebration, are fascinated with celebrity culture. I think a lot of people are not. But I do think that most people who are not moved by celebrity culture and this is in Gen this is in Gen Z and with older people. This is not just like, oh I’m just being older. There’s slews of just like kind of like, I guess kind of like data polls, but then like just videos around uh about Gen Z, just discussing how they just have a like different relationship with celebrity that I don’t think that the average millennial, Gen X, and of course, Boomer actually understands. So is Beyoncé always going to get excitement for being somewhere, anywhere, looking fabulous being the icon that she is? Absolutely. Is that going to influence large swaths of people to go vote for somebody? No. And I think the people that she was convincing now that she wore the Black Panther costume, but then shows trends towards hyper capitalism, or now that her husband quotes Fred Hampton and says pro-women things but can’t denounce Diddy publicly or also shows trends towards hyper capitalism. Even though he endorsed Fred Hampton and and talked about Black Panther Party and stuff like that, I think the people she did excite are not excited anymore. So I yeah that that’s how that’s how I kind of feel about everything but I don’t think that I’m in the minority. I think I’m in the majority. And I think as the years go by, we’re going to see, oh yeah, that doesn’t matter. Nobody cares if Jennifer Lopez endorsed somebody. 

 

Don Calloway: I think that’s probably right. And I hope that I actually hope that you’re right. Um. I do think that the more impactful celebrity endorsements this time around are Kamala Harris flipping Sexyy Red. Um. I think even Cardi B’s a veteran at this point. You know, she’s been out there for a couple of years, but I think Sexyy Red and to maybe a lesser extent, a GloRilla probably matter a little bit to people still on the– 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Uncle Don. 

 

Don Calloway: –still deciding whether or not they were gonna vote. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Uncle Don. 

 

Don Calloway: Not to us. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Uncle Don. 

 

Don Calloway: Not to us! 

 

Myles E. Johnson: No no no no Don.

 

Don Calloway: To people deciding. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I’m that’s I’m talking to those people too. I’m talking to those people too Uncle Don. 

 

Don Calloway: Well, here’s the deal. Because think about it. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: [?] no let’s let let’s do. In your hood. 

 

Don Calloway: Please. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I don’t care where you are at. I don’t care what you got. How much money you got in the bank. Please point me to somebody who is going to vote because of Sexyy Red. Or who’s going to change their mind–

 

Don Calloway: Oh no doubt about it. Oh.

 

Myles E. Johnson: –because of Sexyy Red. 

 

Don Calloway: I would I would ask how much time you spend with lower middle class, poor Black people. I think Sexyy Red has a tremendous–

 

Myles E. Johnson: A lot! 

 

Don Calloway: –amount of. And I do, too. And and I think that look I mean, if 85 South uh Karlous Miller and Chico Bean and DC Young Fly come out and say, hey, look, we really kind of need to get our shit together this time and vote for vote fam but particularly vocal for Kamala. Trump ain’t really with us. I think that matters a tremendous amount to a whole lot of people. And this and this is not. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I agree. 

 

Don Calloway: This is not the the Levi’s celebrity. This is not the people who endorse Tiffany. I don’t care about them. You’re absolutely right in your assessment of Jay-Z and Beyonce. And frankly, I think it extends to Barack and Michelle Obama. In my life. But that’s–

 

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah. 

 

Don Calloway: –another topic for another podcast. They are not my moral center, but there are granular levels of celebrity that have always been with us in the Black community. I’m thinking about the Marvin Sease’s of the world, The Hoochie Coochie Man. You understand what I’m saying? The there are people out there who have tremendous influence–

 

Kaya Henderson: Teach Don. 

 

Don Calloway: –on small packets of Black people, and we typically don’t recognize them and who certainly don’t recognize them is these publicly traded corporations who think that Beyonce is who moves Black people. I think Sexyy Red is probably one of a very few number of people who is a household name and still has that influence. And guess what? It’s gone in two years, it’s gone in two years once she gets that, you know, once she builds the infrastructure around her to support her significant wealth and stature, that’s why I think GloRilla is probably a thing of the past in terms of that specific influence. 

 

Kaya Henderson: What about Taylor Swift? What about Taylor Swift? 

 

Don Calloway: Taylor Swift is white folks. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: [?]. Because–

 

Don Calloway: I really don’t know what influences white folk [laughter]. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: But she’s she’s different to she’s different to me just because of what she likes, what she symbolizes for a lot of people, for a lot of people. But also Taylor Swift is not young, you know, or she’s young because as young as you think that I am, but she’s not like a early 20 something, so I would uh uh a more appropriate comparison would be like, oh Sabrina Carpenter is um Chappell Roan. Are these new, newer girls. Taylor Swift is a is a elder statesman in the pop in the in the pop sphere. And the last thing that I’ll say–

 

Kaya Henderson: But she’s also a phenomenon that crosses multi generations. Right? 

 

Myles E. Johnson: So the last, the last the last thing that I’ll that I’ll say around um around around Black folks. We are in just an era where minstrelsy in pop culture and what gets pop popular is super thin and I don’t think that the same I’m trying to say this in the best way possible. People are not consuming Black people in for the same reasons. So just because hmm um uh just because everybody will is willing to watch a viral clown, doesn’t mean that clown can then become king and tell me what to do? And a lot of of a Sexyy Red. A lot of a a lot of a GloRilla, a lot of all of these people are participating in sexual minstrelsy are are participating in um types of exploitation that makes them funny to talk about on Hollywood Unlocked, does not make them riveting enough to get people to the polls. And there’s not a whole lot of people in the middle of that. Taylor Swift for white people is in the middle of that where she’s entertaining you. But she still feels um grounded in a way. And the, and the only people we have like that in Black culture oftentimes are extremely liked, extremely rich and extremely exceptional. We don’t we that we we are losing a I can’t even think of one. We we we we’re we’re losing a Spike Lee. Where’s Spike Lee exist? We’re losing that type of in between. You know maybe I’m thinking like I’m trying to be. Yeah. Barry Jenkins. We’re losing these people to me to me like, I’m just like, I’m like trying to think like Viola Davis. We don’t have a whole lot of those people and GloRilla and Sexyy Red are just not those people to me that are I just don’t see like that’s just the opposite of what I see how people participate with them. People eat them like snacks. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: I will say what I’m what I’m hopeful for and I, I do know some people who work in the campaign. Some of us also know those people. Um. I think it would be–

 

Kaya Henderson: Shout out to De’Ara. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Shout out to De’Ara, I think it would be really interesting over the next four years that we that somebody, whether it’s the party or like something the party helps build um if if we actually build the capacity of our influencers to to know content. Because I do think that we one of the things that’s happening with the influencers is that they’re like, you know, they’re giving surface reasons about Kamala or Trump is just so crazy that it’s sort of like, you know, people are like, okay, we can’t do this. But, you know, and obviously I’m an organizer and a little biased, but the policy stuff is not too hard for people, Don. Like we can explain it to people in ways that make sense. And I think that if we get another candidate that is as bad as Trump but a little more sane, we gonna be in a world of hurt with this strategy in four years. So I’m hopeful that, you know, because Cardi can talk about the content, you know, like it’s not like Cardi is smart enough she gets it. Now, does she know it? I don’t know. And is the campaign helping her? But I’ve done interviews and I’m like, you know, Biden did the single biggest increase in food stamps in American history, single biggest permanent increase. People are like, really? And I’m like, yeah you know, or like the Medicare prescription. Like there’s stuff that all our families deal with and da da da or like we have proximity to that people don’t even understand well and I and I am hopeful that somebody can help them understand a little better before we go down this path again, um I did want to ask, though– 

 

Kaya Henderson: Wait, before we leave celebrity. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: What were you gonna say? Yeah.

 

Kaya Henderson: I just I feel like she has used celebrity well as a as cherries on top of the cupcake. But she’s got ground game. She’s got rallies. I mean this dude couldn’t fill up Madison Square Garden, which only holds 18,000 people. She had more than 50,000 people out on the Ellipse like she’s the for a campaign that came together 90 days ago like they have and from everything that I hear, it is, you know, shoestring and bubblegum. But they have pulled it off. And so the celebrity is a piece, but it’s not the main part of her strategy. I think she has excelled at putting together an amazing, multilayered campaign. And so I think I think you use celebrity for what you can, but you don’t bank on it. 

 

Don Calloway: Alright listen, I said at the beginning that she’s going to win. And so before we move away, I want everybody to reconvene next week, a week from now. And I’m a let you know. I’m going to give you the weekend to celebrate. I’m going to give you the weekend to high five. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Woop woop. 

 

Don Calloway: I’m going to give you the weekend to praise and worship. And that’s an important thing that we experience this moment of joy together. However, you need to be thinking about–

 

Myles E. Johnson: Ooh this is going to be an embarassing episode if Trump loses. [laughter]

 

Don Calloway: Oh it’s going to be rough. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Er or if Trump wins.

 

Don Calloway: It’s going to be rough. It’s going to be rough. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I’m like.

 

Don Calloway: Listen. We can’t even speak that into the universe. But I will tell you. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: You know what? 

 

Don Calloway: Next week, next week, we need to be talking about what is your cause and is that cause does that cause have the right advocates and procedure in DC to make it to her first 100 day agenda? Because the people who succeed in policy and advocacy have been planning for their agenda to be top of mind for the 100 days for a year now. Uh. And so I know who the transition folks are. We know that they are putting together policy agendas, not just ambassadors to Brazil. And we need to be thinking about what you want to get done, what you want to see her execute upon. And Tim Walz execute upon and think about how to get that on her desk, how to make sure she pays attention to your policy agenda. But we’ll have that conversation next week. I just don’t want to get into too much of the uh the celebrity because there’s work to be done. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Hey, you’re listening to Pod Save the People. Stay tuned. There’s more to come. 

 

[AD BREAK] 

 

DeRay Mckesson: The last thing I’ll say is um around the criminal justice stuff. I have been really tortured internally about writing about the campaign or, you know, I haven’t written anything I talk about her here. I don’t really talk about it because the campaign is not talking about criminal justice. They are not. They the first time she mentions the police is the Black men’s plan. And um and nobody really asked her about it. And I am actually not disappointed in that, I, I would not have believed that abortion would become such a lightning rod issue across the country. I’ve seen the polling data even before her campaign, but I’m actually surprised in a good way that it became a sort of a dividing issue, especially for the women that we needed to vote who historically have not supported. And I’m mindful that criminal justice is not as popular as it was. You know, I’m not delusional about it is not the most popular issue. But I’m heartened because people were concerned about Kamala as a cop was the narrative when she became Vice President, when she ran the first time. People were concerned about Biden, his support of the crime bill and and that era of incarceration. And when they got in office, they are one of the most progressive administrations in American history around criminal justice and race. It just is true. So that’s why I’m not worried about her quietness around the issue, because she showed, like moral clarity. And that’s why I love when they’re like, did you change your position? And she’s like, my values have remained the same. I actually love that. I’m like, take it to the pulpit. Give me the sermon on the values. Like I’m all in. And I actually believe that. So, Don, you know, we’re putting together our 100 day plan. I think you’re right. And when I look at the wins that they have done around race and justice, they are a lot. I think the campaign and I hate to even say it made a made a calculated and probably smart choice to not talk about issues that Trump would lie about so egregiously that we would dig ourselves in a hole and criminal justice, the police, he would just lie so wildly that we would move back a little bit. And I do think and he’s done it with immigration. He’s even you know, I still can’t get over afterbirth abortion. I don’t think I’ll ever get over that. The fact that that became an actual talking point is just nuts to me. Um. But I’m interested for her to win. I can’t wait. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Is that how come you think there hasn’t been any conversation around trans issues too? Like that’s the just kind of like making sure Trump doesn’t have anything to attach um–

 

DeRay Mckesson: Well, I think she did. I think that her answer that’s like, um you know, I’m going to follow the law and da da da. I think that I think that their campaign knows that the moment you actually start having an honest debate about trans issues, it only works if the other person is also having an honest debate and they are not. So–

 

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: If Trump, Trump is getting up there being like, I’m you know, my son is going to school and coming back a woman. And it’s like even entertaining that as an actual argument puts us behind, you know what I mean? 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. I think I think she works for people. If you can if you, A, already trust her, you know, which I’m I’m a feeble minded pop culture lover. So once I saw her in front of the American flag, I’m like, okay, I’m in my, my, my, my Madam President. Um. But I think that the Liz Cheney of it all the just certain things, if you already don’t trust her it just doesn’t feel like, oh once she gets inside of the White House, she’ll then address things that maybe she just couldn’t do on um. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: The campaign. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: On the trail because it will be manipulated. And I think that that is like usually how like um like what like what I feel. And if you do trust her, you’re like, oh no, you don’t see the wink wink. We can’t talk about it right now. But she’s on our side when it, with it. And you see the wink wink but I think it all just boils down to how much you trust her and know her. Um. But I definitely trust her more than I would ever trust a Trump so. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Speaking of which um, the other thing that makes me know that she’s going to win is he I mean, this like, total breakdown at the end has been fascinating to watch. I mean, from the I shouldn’t have left the White House to, you know, just like all of the gobbledygook like this man is I don’t know even if you thought he had the right policies. Looking at him just implode. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Dementia. 

 

Kaya Henderson: On TV is, I don’t like this is the man that you want to have the nuclear codes? 

 

Don Calloway: Yeah. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: You know I do–

 

Don Calloway: Listen, let us just pray that in 48 hours this, you know, obviously we’ll we’ll see what he’s going to do in terms of inciting violence or accepting it. Luckily, this time he’s not in office uh such that once he incites the violence, you know, he’s no longer the president. So that is a significant advantage. But let’s just pray that in, you know, 48 hours, this ten year national nightmare is over of dealing with him. Um. I’m excited to see what the Republican Party will do to make sure he doesn’t win next time or to frankly, you know, purge that element for the from the party, even if it’s just in the interest of winning elections again and faking it. Um. You know, I just I just I just hope for the stank of him to be gone soon. It’s like we get to take a bath. And you know, on on, on tomorrow night. We hope to just be able to get in the shower and be done with his ass once and for all. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: In terms of other news um that also touches on the administration is that, as you all know, Breonna Taylor was killed by the Louisville police in a no knock raid. She was not she had she had not committed any crime, had not done anything wrong. The police barged in, said they were looking for her boyfriend, just unload and he die and she dies. And the DOJ had charged the officer Hankison who um who shot and killed Breonna. And over the weekend, the jury was deadlocked multiple times. They deliberated for 20ish hours and they came back with the conviction of violating her civil rights and using excessive force. The sentencing will be later next year, but the penalty, it can be up to life in prison. You know what makes this really important is that remember, when we look at the numbers, the police kill 1100 people a year. The highest number of convictions in these cases is 1%. It is 11. In any given year that we’ve tracked the data, it is 1%. So he is in the 1% of officers who have held accountable in the criminal system. And then the second thing to remember is that this DOJ under Biden and Kamala has done more around police than any department we’ve ever seen. And it’s actually really hard to charge officers given the federal law. So after Rodney King was beat, the federal government gets the power to investigate, prosecute local police departments, stuff like that. But the standard is really high. The standard is essentially akin to first degree murder. Like, you have to prove intent. And da da da. There’s no manslaughter standard in the federal level for the Civil Rights Division to use in these cases, uh making that standard, also an option is what’s included in the George Floyd Policing Act. That is one of the reasons why we want that to pass. It’ll create another avenue for the federal government to hold officers accountable without having to prove straight up intent, which is akin to first degree murder. Um. Not in this context. Manslaughter, as you know, is when you kill somebody and you did not necessarily premeditate it. I say this because, you know, people, Breonna was killed a while ago. Some people have forgotten about it. But I’m happy that the Department of Justice is not one of the people who had forgotten about it. So I wanted to bring it here to close the loop in some ways. And, you know, it was important to see Breonna’s mom give a statement and say, you know, it took a long time, but at least there’s accountability. 

 

Don Calloway: Let’s be clear. I mean, this is Joe Biden running through the tape. The Joe Biden administration, the Joe Biden Department of Justice running through the tape. And this is the type of stuff that when you get caught up in the horse race of elections and who said what at rallies and racist jokes, all of that’s horrible. And I’m part of the problem of being a TV talker on television. But there are still people, career people under the direction of the president doing the work every day. And this is what you get for it when that presidential administration is calibrated in the right way. So to have your Department of Justice continuing to work on civil rights matters as opposed to shutting off DE and I programs. Right. And that’s what we don’t see when we talk about elections, particularly the presidential election, is a what you’re voting for is an administration. What you’re voting for is a broad viewpoint of the world to direct the resources and the employees of the federal government to try to achieve certain outcomes versus other outcomes. And the idea that some lawyers that was very likely Black, very likely women who worked in those civil rights teams who work on those police prosecution teams, the idea that their mission in life was still to quietly go after the officers who killed Breonna Taylor is a function of why we vote. And it’s a function of having a Biden administration and a Biden Department of Justice still in place. And that’s why you got to think past the headlines on the MSNBC’s and the CNN’s of the world, even if those are the stations you agree with, that’s what you’re voting for and that’s what we hope to get four more years of starting and confirmed tomorrow. 

 

Kaya Henderson: The Breonna Taylor thing was, is so I mean, all of the police killings are horrible. But to think that you could be asleep inside your house and the police just shoot you up and there’s no accountability is like, where do we live if that’s okay? And I feel like for so many people, when I think about how many people were mobilized to go to Louisville and to to protest, um the like sheer audacity of it is so crazy to me. And it feels like the world tilted a little back right on its axis now like that, we’re not as crazy as we think we are um when it’s okay for people to just shoot people up in their beds. So I feel like, you know, the the the King um quote, the moral arc of the universe bends towards justice. I feel like this this is a tip in the right direction. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Breonna Taylor, this story just just still just like, blows my mind. Um I’m obvi– yeah, I’m really happy that her family got and is getting justice. But any time I think about Breonna Taylor I automatically probably because you know, the Black woman connection. Um. But like I always think of Margaret Garner and I think of um how so much of her case was built around wanting to see her killing her child as murder, because that would then prove that, you know, enslaved Africans were not property but were human beings. And that was this kind of agitation to the institution of slavery. And I can’t help but think about this when I think about Breonna Taylor, because I just want more agitation to the institution of the police, because, yes, I think that they should get all the money and justice should be served and people should go to jail. But the institution that allows that to happen, allows somebody to be in their bed and to die. That is like like a toxic, poisonous thing that I don’t that I don’t think is going to be um codified. Like I think I think I think there’s probably something more um radical that has to happen in order to make sure that that does that that is no longer a normal world that we live in. But um rest in peace Breonna Taylor and I hope this brings her family some type of peace. We gained an ancestor today y’all. We gained an ancestor today. You know, it was 1939 when I first met Quincy Jones. [laughter]

 

DeRay Mckesson: Why are you so crazy? 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I was. I was. I was a ex flapper girl. And this handsome man came towards me and said, you know what? I’m the dude. [laughter] That’s a [?] album, if you didn’t know. Um. [laughing]

 

Kaya Henderson: I love it. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Quincy. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Keep telling the story baby. Keep telling the story. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: And I was. I was just smoking my cigar. He came over and he said, You want to come with me little Mama? I said, Why not? No. [laughter]. Quincy Jones. [laughter] Quincy Jones was, here’s the only way I can put it, if we’re talking about the fabric of American culture, Quincy Jones and his contributions threaded that American culture from Frank Sinatra, from um Roots, from the Wiz, from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, uh from these like, countless like jazz albums that I that I love. You know, I was blasting um a secret garden very, very early. Both both the sax version too the S-A-X version with just the saxophone and no vocals because that’s that’s my version um when when I want to feel nice and grown. Uh. Quincy Jones also was a relic of an era that is that is just phasing out, you know? Quincy Jones was 91 years old. And when it when you think about the uh the big band sound, when you think about certain jazz traditions, certain R&B traditions, uh Quincy Jones made sure those traditions stayed alive and morphed them and evolved them. And to being able to um to to stand the times. So I automatically think of Michael Jackson and his work with Michael Jackson and making sure these ideas around jazz, namely one how he um how the voice is not just a pop vocal in the middle on top of a track, but the voice can also be instrumental. He motivated Michael to do that. So when you listen to a lot of Michael’s um uh music, you will hear him doing a lot of mm ah ee ah ah or a lot of sounds that actually have an interaction with his voice, like a jazz instrument and less like just a pop vocalist who just goes on top of the music. That is Quincy’s influence. So then when you hear hip hop music. And then in those that hip hop sounds, you hear these ad lib and these uh and these eh and these things that almost sound primal, that sound African. You can directly connect that to Quincy was just how we do music. You know, you give anybody a five year old, a ten year old, a 15 year old how to make a song, they’re just automatically going to do it and not know that this is something that has been introduced in into pop music by Quincy Jones. And again, just countless cultural artifacts that have just changed how we listen to um how we listen to music. You know, anybody who you can connect with Will Smith and Frank Sinatra. That’s a wide [laugh] that’s a wide, wide stroke of influence. So um so, yeah, we gained an ancestor. You know, how I feel when somebody is over 90 years old when they die. I say we, we, we, we, they, they, they spent their time. You know, I’m not going to I’m not going to flex being the saddest person on earth. But this is a good time to be familiar with Quincy Jones to get familiar. He has a Net a Netflix documentary that is really, really great. Um. And you can just, in that documentary, understand all of his influence um and all of his power. And the last thing I’ll say about Quincy Jones is, thank you Quincy, for this last five years for giving us some of the best gossip that we had. I mean, when he was talking about Marlon Brando being yeah, he was talking about a lot of different stuff. He did that when he was doing the press tour for that documentary. He let a lot of things fly. And thank you so much for that um, Quincy, because there there are Netflix Limited series just in your gossip rags alone. And that will again be something that you add to the culture. Um. How how are y’alls experiences with Quincy Jones and influence, and how do you all feel now that we’ve gained this ancestor?

 

Kaya Henderson: Um. There’s just so much, goodness gracious, like the soundtrack of our lives, for sure. I don’t even know. Like, um I don’t know what to say. Um. I like Back on the Block, one of my favorite albums, like every single song on that album, is doing something different with wildly different people. And is is it’s own like work of art. Thriller, the most purchased album of all time. Like stop for a minute, you made the album that more people in the world bought than any other album in the whole world ever. Um. And you know, We Are the World. I was I was at a conference um a couple weeks ago in Switzerland, and it was an education conference. And it the topic was leadership. And they asked a guy named Lord David Puttnam to open the conference um talking about, you know, his version of leadership. Lord David Puttnam is a Brit. He is an award winning um filmmaker. He did Chariots of Fire. He did um, I don’t know, a bunch of things um and he, he got up and he said, um there’s no greater leadership moment that I have ever seen than Quincy Jones pulling together everybody to do, We are the World. He said you could imagine 200 artists each amazing in their own right and, you know, quirky in their own right and prima donna in their own right and all of this. And he’s like to conceive of this project, to orchestrate it. It all happened in one night. He’s and he says it is the best example of leadership that I can I could ever imagine. And so I took the Netflix documentary, I edited it down to ten minutes of pure leadership. And that is what I am holding up as the example of leadership. And he posted he played this, you know, shortened clip that he put together. And it was what was so powerful to me. One, we’re at an education conference and we are using a musician as the definition of leadership. But the way you saw him orchestrating, managing these people, um keeping the energy going like it was, it was like watching leadership deconstructed in new ways. And I think that um I think that there is a lot, as you said, Myles, of Quincy, that we don’t get to see. We don’t see how many fingerprints are all over music from Quincy Jones. But it’s not just music. It’s leadership. It is social justice. It is family. It is, you know, having a good time at the club. It is all of those things. And so for me, Quincy Jones is a quintessential Black American, but he’s also a quintessential American. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Um. I got to meet Quincy Jones when I was on The Colbert Show. I was in I was on Colbert. And Quincy, I think was the segment after mine. So I like come off the stage. I go back and there is there’s Quincy Jones. And I know Rashida um and I have this whole conversation with Quincy Jones. And I’m like, I can’t believe I met Quincy Jones. And I met him after that. But it was uh that was very cool. You know, I love primary sources, so I’m going to read some amazing Quincy Jones quotes. I will also say that I did not know that he wrote the soundtrack to my elementary school career, which was also Tevin Campbell’s first song to be number one as a R&B single, and it was his first single to enter the Billboard Hot 100. Quiz, what is it? 

 

Don Calloway: You asking me? 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Anybody. 

 

Don Calloway: You know I know. Can we talk. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: No, that is not Tevin Campbell’s–

 

Don Calloway: Oh. No, no, no, no, no, no. Uh. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: It’s tomorrow will bring. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Oh [?]–

 

Don Calloway: Tomorrow. Yes. [singing in background] [laughter]

 

DeRay Mckesson: I feel like I heard that song so much in elementary school. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: He sounds like such a young Michael on that song. So. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: He does. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: When I when I hear that song, I automatically think about Michael Jackson. I don’t think about him besides me just being too young to tp have heard that when it came out. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Um. Tomorrow will. Okay. So he was asked. 

 

Don Calloway: Don’t be lazy man. Get the fal– if you’re going to do it. You got, [starts singing] you got to [?]. [laughter] Come on you gotta. Don’t be lazy. Don’t be lazy. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: Uncle Don is showing that falsetto today. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Um. They said, is there innovation happening in modern music, modern pop music? He goes, Hell, no. It’s just loops, beats, rhymes, and hooks. What is there for me to learn from that? There ain’t no F-ing songs. The song is the power, the singer is the messenger. The greatest singer in the world cannot save a bad song. I learned that 50 years ago. And it’s the single greatest lesson I ever learned as a producer. If you don’t have a great song, it doesn’t matter what else you put around it. And he just had so many epic, epic, epic quotes. There’s this quote where he talks about meeting Tupac for the first time and Tupac um he said, you know, Kidada was dating Tupac and um and he wasn’t happy about it. He says, I wasn’t happy at first. He’d attacked me for having all these white wives. And my daughter, Rasheeda, who was at Harvard, wrote a letter to the source taking him apart. I remember one night I was dropping Rasheeda off da da da and Tupac was talking to Kidada, blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, um they they worked it out. He said if he had a gun, I would have been done. But we talked. He apologized and we became very close after that. He he told the pope to his face by mistake that he was wearing pimp shoes. I love it. [laughter] It’s like it’s just so great. And I also love what he said about Michael Jackson. He goes, you worked with Michael Jackson more than anyone he wasn’t related to. What’s something people don’t understand about him. And he goes, I hate to get into it publicly, but Michael stole a lot of stuff. He stole a lot of songs. Donna Summer’s state of independence and Billie Jean. The notes don’t lie, man. He was a ma– he was as machiavellian as they come. And the interviewer goes how so? He says, greedy man, greedy. Don’t stop till you get enough. Greg Phillinganes wrote the C section. Michael should have gave him–

 

Don Calloway: Wow. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: –ten percent of the song. Wouldn’t do it. And there’s like a part of the honesty of old people that I really appreciate and I will end with this one. What were your first impressions of The Beatles? That they were the worst musicians in the world. They were no playing mother f-ers. Paul was the worst bass player I ever heard. And Ringo don’t even talk about it. I remember once we were in the studio with George Martin, and Ringo had taken three hours for a four bar thing he was trying to fix on a song. He couldn’t get it. We said, mate, why don’t you go get some lager and lime, some shepherd’s pie, and take an hour and a half and relax a little bit. So he did. We called up Ronnie Verrell, a jazz drummer. Ronnie came in for 15 minutes and tore it up. Ringo comes back and says, George, can you play it back for me one more time? So George did and Ringo says, that didn’t sound so bad. And I said, Yeah, mother f-er, because it ain’t you. [laughter] [?].

 

Don Calloway: Right. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: [?] wait and this is I don’t know if you have heard this but about Baldwin. Or that Baldwin’s in. He goes um, maybe not Cha-Cha. He goes, Marlon Brando used to do cha-cha dancing with us. He could dance his ass off. He was the most charming mother f-er you ever met. He’d f anything, anything, he’d f a mailbox. James Baldwin, Richard Pryor, Marvin Gaye. The interviewer goes, he slept with them? How do you know that? And he goes, come on, man. He did not give a f. You like Brazilian music? I’m like, [?]. [laughter] every story he [?] and I love it. 

 

Myles E. Johnson: I was trying to keep it PG. And I say, DeRay, DeRay’s saying here you go. [laughter] Quincy was [?]. [banter] 

 

Kaya Henderson: A mailbox.

 

DeRay Mckesson: Quincy in his own. 

 

Kaya Henderson: A mailbox. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: In his own voice. 

 

Don Calloway: Put it out there, he said he said. You know, I like direct sources. 

 

DeRay Mckesson: Let’s go to the source itself because he had some colorful quotes. Um. Well, shout out to Election Day and shout out to there being a democracy on Wednesday. [music break] Don’t go anywhere. More Pod Save the People is coming. 

 

[AD BREAK]

 

Kaya Henderson: It’s election season. And this week we have the spotlight on Mississippi. This week, I sat down with the executive director of Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable, Cassandra Welchlin. Cassandra is a policy advocate and a political powerhouse. It was so amazing to speak with her about all of the incredible work that she is doing to mobilize women and girls in the state of Mississippi. I learned so much. And you will, too. Let’s go. Cassandra Overton Welchlin, welcome to Pod Save the People. Thank you for joining us. I am so excited to talk to you today. How are you feeling? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: I’m feeling all right. Thank you for having me. It’s really good to be in space with, you know, other Black women you hadn’t met before. And so I’m just really looking forward to um having this conversation with you and your audience. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Well, thank you. Um. I think part of the reason that we were interested in talking to you is because we learned about the power of the sister vote boot camp. So talk to us about what that is and why that is important at this particular moment. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yeah. So the power of the sister vote boot camp um was actually launched in 2023. And so this is our second year doing the boot camps. So really it’s about putting a face, putting Black women’s face on voting in Mississippi and what our power has looked like and what we can continue to do. And so we wanted to really um make it a little bit more formal and give um women an opportunity to equip them with the skills that they need to help turn out other women and the communities in which they live. So for us at the Black Women’s Roundtable, we know that Black women have always voted here in the state and in this country. And Mississippi is particularly um heightened during presidential elections. Like Black women vote in Mississippi like never before during presidential elections. But we began to see that data and said, well, if we can elevate that and have that same voting behavior in every election, then change could really come in a way that benefits communities and our people. So we began to look at the data um in the state and understand how Black women were voting. And so we began to see that there was opportunity to increase voter turnout in specific county count counties where there are, you know, high propensity voters or or Black women voters who don’t vote in every election. And so, you know, our team came together and we said, let’s be really creative about how we do this and innovative. And so we decided to be strategic and target those counties that had infrequent Black women voters. But how we build that is we go to the people, identify women leaders who are already like super voters and really engage. And we ask them to come and be a part of these boot camps and in those boot camps we connect the issues back to the polls. So we talk about um what our history is, really grounding them, like what the history is. A Black woman voting in Mississippi, what the data says about, you know, what our voting behavior is. And then we have a conversation about what the issues are that are concern, that are a concern for Black women um in in their communities. And from there, we have and they talk about like these are the issues that are so important to me. And we say, well, let’s connect that back to um the ballot and let’s talk about the leaders that, you know, help implement policies that may support your kitchen tables or may not support your kitchen tables. And so we then talk about the legislative session because we are a policy advocacy organization as well, and we are deep in that work. And so we said, well, this past legislative session, these are laws that passed. These are the laws that didn’t pass. And let’s talk about how you participate in that and then how those issues um or how those laws are going to impact your kitchen table. And then–

 

Kaya Henderson: So–

 

Cassandra Welchlin: From them, go ahead. 

 

Kaya Henderson: So my question is, this is a lot. I am a single Black mother. I got three kids. I am in a rural county in Mississippi. Is this how I’m spending my Saturday? That I don’t have brain space to think about this what how am I? How are you getting people to do this? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: I’m a tell you. So the we make the bootcamp rooted in our culture. So we named it Power of the Sister vote boot camp. So, one, that name really does make people interested. And when we talk about sister. We’re talking about Black women. So even that imagery of what this boot camp looks like, it looks like Black women. And so our graphic, you know, is Black women in their big hoop earrings um with their afro they looking amazing. And so they see themselves in it. We have not been short of people not showing up at the boot camps because we recognize that they have seen themselves in it. But the other thing is and we’re talking to sisters. The other thing is that we understand that people are working two or three jobs or on a Saturday. They’re just like, wait a minute, I can’t do this. So we build in some supports. So we have meals at these boot camps and we’ve had them on a Saturday. We’ve had them on the evening, and then we build in childcare um as well. And not only that, we know that, like you said, people are coming to our thing and so we want to make sure that they are incentivized. And people, you know, in Mississippi, you know, living paycheck to paycheck is a real thing. And so we give them just a little stipend to participate in this that will help with gas. And so we thought about all the things. And [?]–

 

Kaya Henderson: But you also make it you make it fun. Well, talk talk about how you–

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Oh. 

 

Kaya Henderson: –dress, talk about what’s happening at these–

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Fun. 

 

Kaya Henderson: –boot camps.

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Oh yeah, we make it fun. So we always root these um boot camps in our history, um and in our traditions. So music is a part of our tradition. So we start off with even when people are walking into the room, we’re hugging them. We’re greeting them, we’re passing out their t shirts like, go put the t shirt on. The music is playing like we’re doing line dancing like it is, the whole atmosphere shifts when they walk in. It’s like hmm this is interesting and we are dressed in army fatigues. So our staff, we got the shirts on that got army fatigue you know the camouflage on it. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Camouflauge. Mm hmm.

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And then we also have our camouflage pants on. And so they walking and it was like, huh this is interesting. And so we set the whole we set the whole atmosphere. And then we started off like a mass meeting from the 1960s. And so I’m in there, I’m singing, I got our song, you know, this little light of mine. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Come on. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: I’m gonna let it shine. Oh. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: This little light of mine. And we know that was Fannie Lou Hamer’s song. And then we talk about what that music has meant to our people and our culture. And so I’m teaching them there as well. And then we have role playing. So they actually have to do a workshop on how to do phone banking. And so we ask for volunteers in there. And so they got a script and some of the, you know, and so the script is you have to call, you know, someone and that someone may not be real nice to you. And so they actually are playing that out. And then we ask them, how did that feel? Because we when they leave our boot camps, they now have to go and do the work. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Right? They now have to bring their communities together and go canvass the doors and so we got people role playing, knocking on doors, and you got people that’s like, I don’t want you at my door, get away. So how do you respond to that? How do you get what you want, you know, at that moment? And so it we make it really fun. And we have young people in the room. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Come on, say it. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: We are a intergenerational– 

 

Kaya Henderson: Guess. Yes.

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –um organization. And so when we have a Black youth vote program and so we tell you know these women, bring your young people. And so we’ve had elementary kids there, all the way to college students that are there. And we ask them, you know, what are the issues that are concerning to you? And we get these elementary kids talk about, well, I need a playground. Right? 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. Yes.

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Okay. Well let’s, ok let’s talk about how you organize that, right? 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And the message at the end of the day is Black women, we have power. When we come to the polls, we not only bring our selves, but we bring our families and our communities. And so the the challenge back to them is bring your communities to the polls with you. And we resource that as well. So it is exciting. We have had about 12 of these boot camp. It got so popular, we were only supposed to have five. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Uh huh. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: This um [laughter] this year, only five. It got so popular. Because men began to hear about the power of the sister vote boot camp. And it was like–

 

Kaya Henderson: That’s always how it is. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –are you gonna do a thing for the brothers? 

 

Kaya Henderson: Right. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And so so we actually just did the power of the voter, the power of the brother voter boot camp. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I love it. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And they were so excited about it. We did it on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. And so we’re going to be doing that again. And we’re asking these, you know, these community members to help shape um what this looks like, you know, in your community. And it’s interesting. Every boot camp has a different feel than the other–

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Because it’s based on um based on community. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And and and at the end, we have now given you what you need. We’ve given you the tools. You giving it back to us. Now we’re asking you, our women who vote. Now let’s go get these infrequent Black women voters. So we giving them the data. We say this is where they are. This is the phone bank list. This is the canvasing list. Organize a group of women from this bootcamp or in your community. Go knock on those doors. We give them a voter box. Inside that voter box, um our door hangers, our voter registration forms. There’s a field guide. You know. So we have given them everything that they need. It’s been really awesome. And we’ve done one with the child care centers um as well because I come from child care organizing. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yep. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And so they have been a part of the work that we’ve been doing for a long time. And so we had one with child care centers that was virtually from across um child care centers from across the state, because childcare centers are community centers, so. 

 

Kaya Henderson: They are. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: So yeah, it’s been it’s been– 

 

Kaya Henderson: Cassandra. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –really awesome and incredible. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I love this. I think that um there are just so many dimensions that you are hitting on from intergenerational work to deeply rooted in community, to leveraging Black women’s power as leaders in the community. There are so many, um I think, really important points there. And it’s fun because if it’s going to be us, we going to be dancing and singing and having a good time. There’s going to be food. We going to take care of our children. So I love that we get to do this this way. We’re in a particular moment where we might have our first Black woman president. How what’s the sentiment out there? How do how are people how are Black women in Mississippi feeling about this election? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: You know, I have to say, when we are coming to the bootcamps, there is a different excitement this year than it was the first year we launched this. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yeah. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And it’s because Black women see themselves in– 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: You know, a Kamala Harris. Right?

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Now we’re nonpartisan. We can’t support a candidate or–

 

Kaya Henderson: Absolutely. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –a particular party. But what I can tell you is that these Black women see the potential and see themselves in what could be historic in this country, and that excites them. We are supporting um we support Black women. Right. And we see and that’s just, you know, who we are anyways. We want to see our sister rise, right? And so we have the excitement in the room is very different than, like I said, the first. And so even the the girls in the room are having you know conversations. I was telling someone yesterday that right after the debate, um the presidential debate, my daughter called me immediately afterwards, but I guess I fell asleep and I didn’t hear it. But she called me at 8:30 the next morning and she had her friends in the room. And I was like, what’s going on? She said, why you didn’t answer my call? I said, well, I fell asleep. She said, this is important and I need you to answer my call. So I said what’s important? She was like, did you hear what was happening at the presidential debate last night? Did you hear the conversations? Well, we want to talk about this and we want to talk about that. How do you feel about that? And so it was at 8:30 in the morning. My–

 

Kaya Henderson: Morning, uh huh. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: My 19 year old who was at Tougaloo College was calling me from her dorm room with–

 

Kaya Henderson: With her girls. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yeah with uh yeah. With her girls because they couldn’t sleep because there was so much on their mind. So now it’s raising the consciousness, it’s letting them see hope. Um. They are they’re in the moment and it’s just been pretty, pretty exciting um to see and to view.

 

Kaya Henderson: Well I mean, what’s interesting is there are people who would say, Mississippi, why are we investing in Black women in Mississippi? Um. And and you have created the Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable, which is dedicated to increasing civic engagement and voter participation among Black women in Mississippi. What do you say to the people who say, I wouldn’t invest in Black women in Mississippi? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: I’ll say to watch out and don’t sleep on us. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Hey. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Um. [laugh] So that’s that’s what I would say. So the Mississippi Black women’s Round Table we actually are an affiliate of the National Black Women’s Roundtable led by Melanie Campbell. So there are actually 12 affiliates, I think, around the country. Most of them are situated in the South and led by Black women. And so I was asked by Melanie Campbell if I would relaunch the Mississippi affiliate um because it was dormant. The leaders had um the former leaders had gotten sick. One had passed away. And we ran across each other in DC um at a media training, and we got to know who one another you know were. And she reached out like several years later, she said, I’ve been following you. We need the Black Women’s Roundtable to be reactivated. Would you take that on? And I was in a transition place because it was right after the 2016 um election. And and I’m saying this to to answer your question. I was working um for an organization um and it was led by a white woman, we’re doing incredible work. But I realized that I needed to do the dance differently [phone rings in the background] and I really needed to stand in my own power. Um. And I knew that part of that power was building this infrastructure where Black women could own their own power and lead in a particular way. And so I stepped into that role and and said, yes, I’ll do that for my people. I think that is historic to why [?] why people shouldn’t sleep on Mississippi, because that has been our history, right? Where we have um there’s been, you know, issues. We’ve seen things and we just stepped into that role, whether we have the resources, the monetary resources to do it or not. So I’m thinking about a Fannie Lou Hamer. Right. So we’re 60 years, 60 years ago. You know, we um 60 years to the day that Kamala Harris accepted her nomination was also when Fannie Lou Hamer went to um the National Democratic Party to demand that she be represented with the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. And she said, you know, is this America? The land of the free and the home of the brave, where we have to sleep with our telephones off of the hook because our lives be threatened daily, because we just want to live decent human beings, live as decent human beings in America. So she questions America. And I believe that’s, you know, very symbolic of Black women in Mississippi is that we’re continuing to fight. Right? We have been a part of every political, social, environmental movement in this country. And so and we are building the infrastructure. So we’re taking from our elders and our leaders and we are leading. And then we’re bringing up, you know, a new generation of foot soldiers to continue the work. And so you shouldn’t sleep on us. We are experts. We are leaders. Always have been. We have solutions. And with all the right, you know um, infrastructure, we can continue to build that arc to ensure that our people are liberated and have what they need. So you shouldn’t sleep on us. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I like it. It’s also not lost on me. Um. In the article that I read in the 19th, you said voting feels like a battle in Mississippi. And I think when I think about the many obstacles that are placed against our communities in Mississippi, who better than the people who are most under siege to teach the rest of us how we should be fighting this fight? You know, who better, you all don’t have the ability to vote, um to register to vote online. You don’t have early voting. Every every obstacle that they could put up, they have put up. And yet and still, you know, the Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable and Black women in Mississippi, period, have figured out ways to overcome those obstacles. And so I think we have a lot to learn from you, um. Where you come from, girl, how you get to do this work? Who are you? What what what prepared you for this kind of work? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Absolutely. So a little bit of a little bit of a story. And then I go uh into it. So I’m from Mississippi, from Jack Town um [?]. And I um and I have to, you know, my mother’s life taught me what justice was and my grandmother’s life taught me what service was. So my grandmother, um who was actually the foster care mother to my mom and her five siblings, actually took them in when she was just when they were just children. Like little, little people took them into her care because their mother um had to leave Mississippi because she wasn’t getting adequate health care that she needed. And so she ended up leaving going to Brooklyn, New York, to try to get these, you know, to get access to health care while also trying to make a living. And so she left her little people here in the care of Eva Thompson, who I’ll get to. And she was gone from them for four years um before she was brutally murdered in Brooklyn, um New York. And the perpetrators, they were um caught. But at the end of the day, they no longer had access or had their their maternal mother. But Eva Thompson didn’t know she would have to raise these children for that long. And so she did. She took all of those kids in, and she was an older woman when she took them in, she might have been in her you know late 40s, but she took them in and she cared for them. And so she’s a servant. And so here I am, the eldest grandkid, and my job with her, she taught me how to cook, but she taught me how to serve. And so my job was to, you know, you know, love language for, you know, Big Mama [?] is, is cooking and so my my granny would cook this pot of cornbread with whatever her meal is. And she was um tell me to go take it to Miss Taylor. And I would and she would say, when you take this pot of cornbread and this food over there. Don’t leave. Sit there with Ms. Taylor and see what she needs. And where young girls would learn how to braid hair on a doll. I learned how to do that with Miss Taylor. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Taylor. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –because Miss Taylor had no family. And so I learned what service was through her. My mother was a low wage worker making $2.13. And I want to connect the point that $2.13 is still the sub minimum wage for waitresses. So I just want to connect that here in Mississippi. And she got to take me to work with her and she would hide me in the utility closet where her colleague was. And she would leave me and go out on the floor and be the maid cleaning the bathrooms, sweeping the floors, changing the tissue. And oftentimes we didn’t have tissue. Right. And she would come back in there when she was done and she would relieve her colleague and she would um teach me my ABCs and my 1, 2, 3’s because at the heart of who she is, she’s a teacher. And what I came to learn about that story is that my mother didn’t have enough money for childcare for me. And that was my child care story. And so that happened many, many, many, many times. What’s interesting is that she worked right across the street from the state capitol. Where these men and at the time and still are, authority white men had the power to write a law that would increase wages. And make life better for her so she wouldn’t have to hide me in that utility closet. And so I think it’s really interesting now. And also, I will say, destiny, that I get the opportunity to take my women, take the Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable to the state capitol and hold them accountable and talk about and advocate for um increased minimum wage, access to health care, childcare, paid leave, sick leave. And when I come, they know Cassandra Welchin is coming and they be like, gosh, here she come. [?] [laughter] And it’s pretty amazing, you know, that I get to do that. But I’m a social worker. I am a trained social worker. A licensed social worker. But that is not what I wanted to do. I actually was going to go into psychology and I went into this social work class taught by this amazing Black woman. And my favorite class was social work for policy. A friend of mine just invited me into the class and it excited me. I was like, this is what I wanted to do because it was talking about policy, even though I didn’t know that that’s what it was. And so I began to be a social worker. But I wanted to do social work differently. I didn’t want to do the direct service. I wanted to do the systems change work. And so now I get the opportunity to do that systems change work, but bring but using community organizing. Because at the heart of who I am, I’m a community organizer taught by a mentor by the incredible [?] Hollis Watkins, who founded Southern Echo. And um and bring my people with me to the table so they can be a part of the implementation and the formation of public policy in the state of Mississippi. So that’s a little bit of my story. I could go on and on, but that’s a little bit of who I am.

 

Kaya Henderson: Um I love it. And where did where was this social work class? Where were you taking classes? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yeah. So I went to Jack the Jackson State University. That’s where I went to uh school. And I tell you, um the social work department at Jackson State University really changed my trajectory. You know, I come from a working class um family. But when I entered the social work class and my mom, my mom, like, she, she she’s a debutante. Like she, she I get it from my mom. You see how I’m showing [?]. You just couldn’t step any old kind of way. But she didn’t show up like that every day. But when I went to Jackson State University, I saw Black women professionals in a very different way. And these Black women professionals would comeI mean, intelligent, smart, right? They inspired me and they pushed me and they created opportunities for me. They saw something in me. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Oh my gosh. They saw something in me. And they also um said, Cassandra, you need a very different experience than even what we can give you at the School of Social Work. So we’re going to send you to Africa. And so they did. They sent me to Africa, um to Namibia, and to to the student exchange program, because it was like you are a global citizen and a–

 

Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: –global thinker. And I was actually getting ready to get put out of the social work program because I was like, that don’t make sense. Let’s change it here. And I was skipping protocol. And it was like, we got to send you somewhere because you going to get put out of here. But you still amazing. We want to keep you. So let us try to work this. And they did. And it was like you have a global mind. And so we want to expose you to what other solutions um and solutions that people are doing and also what other societies and Black women and Black people, what what’s happening in those countries and what programs, you know. And so that happened and it really blew my mind. And I came back um just very different. But it was those Black women who saw something in me that really made me you know who I am today. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I think this is an incredibly important point. Um. We’re seeing a significant resurgence in the importance of HBCUs, and it is because of those things. It is because our people can recognize our genius even when it shows up in a little bit of troublesome ways. And and we can help redirect into ways that are productive. We understand I mean the I went to a PWI, but uh it was right across town from the mecca um and many of my friends and family members went to HBCU’s. And they are different. They are different. Um. And I think our communities are looking to you know, Frederick Douglass says um it’s incumbent upon us to build strong children so that we don’t have to repair broken men. And I think that it is important for us to recognize I think we’re finally recognizing the important role that HBCUs play in creating leaders in our community. Um. I want to I want my one last question before I end um is a is a quote, Frederick Douglass quote is my quote, but um you have a favorite quote that says, if you don’t love the people, sooner or later you will betray the people. Who said it? And why does it resonate with you? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Just you saying it just continues to resonate um with me. So the late mayor of Jackson, Chokwe Lumumba, he said that and he would always say that because he was a he was a person of the people and he really believed in community and believed that you are supposed to serve the community, particularly if you’re in a leadership role. And if you’re really trying to do good and be a change agent, it’s not about you. It is about what your community needs. And so he says that above all, love you know exceeds. And so if you love a person and if you love a people, you going to do right by them. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Yes. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And I felt that like it was I it testified to my spirit and my soul, and I was like, that’s how I feel and that’s how I want to live. And not that I’ll always get it right, but I also am a person of accountability. And so I build a circle you know of people around me who will tell me the truth. And so um so yeah, that is it testifies to my soul and my spirit. And so I live by that and will forever live by that. 

 

Kaya Henderson: It is. It is the key. Love is the key ingredient to leadership. To good leadership. If you you know, Cornel West says you can’t serve the people if you don’t love the people. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yes. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Um my little addition to that is you can’t love the people if you don’t know the people. We have so many leaders who are so far away from our communities who don’t, who are not with our people. And and love is the animating emotion around leadership. People think it’s power. People think it’s impact. People think it’s fame. No, no, love is the animating impact. Um. So thank you for for sharing that with us. Okay. So on the podcast, we always ask people two final questions. And so the first one is um what piece of advice have you gotten over the years that have stuck with you? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Mm that’s so interesting I have been thinking about this uh for the last week because my granddad, he went on to be um in glory in 20 uh 2017. And um he told me, be kind to your children when they are young. Because they will be kind to you when you are old. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Hey. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: And I’ve been thinking about that so much and thinking about my own kids and how I show up because you know this work is draining, and I’m not always going to be this age. I will get older and I want to be able to for my kids to um want to show up for me like I’ve shown up for them. And so it’s actually an accountability check for me. And so that’s a word of advice that– 

 

Kaya Henderson: I love it. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yeah. 

 

Kaya Henderson: I love it. I love it. Um. The second because we like to end on a hopeful note. And, you know, we are living in treacherous times. What do you say to people who are giving up hope in this moment? The people who, you know, they might have been to your boot camp and they might be voting, but the money is funny and the bills ain’t getting paid and the laws are still coming at them. What how how do you help them continue to have hope in this moment? 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: I think and we do it in a couple of ways. One, you know, we do center our work in love, but we also say you are you are not alone, which is we want the Black Women’s Roundtable to um and also say we create spaces of joy, activism, and healing. And we want people, particularly Black women and Black girls, to see this place as that. And so they have a place here, and you’re not alone. The other thing is Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable. We have um a rapid response program. And so we show love in how we wash people’s clothes. We have something called quarters because we care. And so we go out into the community you know four times a year if we have the funds and we just show up at a laundromat and we just say, you come and wash your clothes because we know your money is funny. And so um we do that. Yesterday, I got a call from a mom, from my child’s teacher who said, Cassandra, we really need we need some help, and we have a care fund, and she knows it. And I said, well, what’s happening? And she said, um one of my students ran up to his mom and said, Mom, are the lights on? And she didn’t think anything of it, really. But then the kid started crying. And so she pulled the mom aside and she said, what’s going on? The mom said our lights are out. Both of my kids are disabled and they require machines to help keep them alive. One of them needs oxygen 24 you know seven. And she said, what can y’all do? And I call the mom. I said I heard the story. Nothing to be asked. We’re going to take care of your light bill so your babies can live. So they’re organizations so I would say hope looks like the Mississippi Black Women’s Roundtable, you know, and the people here um and the women that I have working here with us, um we want to be that hope. And we hope as we are being hope that they feel hopeful and can continue on just a little while longer. 

 

Kaya Henderson: Cassandra Welchin, thank you so much for joining us on Pod Save the People. Thank you for the work that you do in Mississippi. Um. I will say so goes Mississippi in voting rights and civic engagement, so goes the United States. I believe that. And–

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Yes. 

 

Kaya Henderson: So thank you for that. Thank you for elevating the sisters. Thank you for supporting the brothers. Thank you for being you. God bless you and come back on any time you’d like. We’d love to have you. 

 

Cassandra Welchlin: Thank you so much. Thank you. [music break]

 

DeRay Mckesson: Well, that’s it. Thanks so much for tuning in to Pod Save the People this week, don’t forget to follow us at @CrookedMedia on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. And if you enjoyed this episode of Pod Save the People, consider dropping us a review on your favorite podcast app. And we’ll see you next week. Pod Save the People is a production of Crooked Media. It’s produced by AJ Moultrié and mixed by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Executive produced by me and special thanks to our weekly contributors Kaya Henderson, De’Ara Balenger and Myles E. Johnson. [music break]