Ira and Louis discuss Katy Perry’s new album 143, the shocking new Demi Moore film The Substance, Janet Jackson and Chappell Roan’s political commentary, Erewhon smoothies, and more. Plus, Jon Lovett joins to discuss his all too brief tenure on the new season of Survivor.

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TRANSCRIPT

 

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Ira Madison III All right. We are back with an all new Keep It. I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel And that’s just not important right now because I’m Louis Virtel and we have with us a reality TV goddess.

 

Jon Lovett All right.

 

Louis Virtel Ma’am. Ma’am.

 

Ira Madison III Sandra, Parvati is here.

 

Louis Virtel Kind of.

 

Jon Lovett Yeah, sure. The Parvati of Crooked Media is here.

 

Louis Virtel It’s okay. You said it, not us. You can disagree later, Ira. It’s Jon Lovett.

 

Jon Lovett Hi.

 

Louis Virtel Who does podcasts here.

 

Jon Lovett You bet.

 

Louis Virtel But also.

 

Jon Lovett But also.

 

Louis Virtel Was on the show Survivor.

 

Jon Lovett I was.

 

Louis Virtel And you were mysteriously. Lovingly, I would say, eliminated first.

 

Jon Lovett Mmmhmm.

 

Louis Virtel And you got to watch it live with a bunch of gay people at high tops.

 

Jon Lovett That’s right.

 

Louis Virtel In the eastside. Which was a pleasure to see. But, man, what a journey. And you’ve already talked about it some, but now we’re going to get nasty about it.

 

Jon Lovett Okay, let’s do it.

 

Louis Virtel First of all, let’s just talk about how surprised were you to get eliminated? How surprised?

 

Jon Lovett So I was not surprised at all.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Jon Lovett I really wasn’t. It was not it wasn’t surprising. What actually was very hard was in the hours leading up to it, was trying to figure out how to get out of what I felt like was an unstoppable situation. Because I think part of why like I was a little bit nervous, more than nervous, I was dreading a bit what it was going to be like once it aired, in part because I had no idea how I’d be presented and I had no idea if how it felt to be in it is what it would look like when it was on screen. But it is. And basically somebody had a bit of a meltdown.

 

Louis Virtel He sure did. And one of the most memorable I’m not a survivor of Leonardo, but that has to be one of the craziest meltdowns in the history of the show, especially for episode one.

 

Jon Lovett And I had thought about what it would be like for someone on my tribe to have a meltdown. And I thought about what it would be like for someone to turn on me. I didn’t see them happening at the exact same moment, and it really created a challenge. So in the new era of Survivor, there’s something called a shot in the dark. And what a shot in the dark is, is every person basically has a roll of the dice. If they if you think you’re on the chopping block, if you think you’re going to be eliminated, you can roll this dice and you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting to stay. Everybody has it and you lose your vote. But that 1 in 6 chance means that other people don’t want you to know if the vote is on you. Right? It used to be that there were votes in Survivor where they would just say, Lewis, I’m really sorry, but we’re voting for you. IRA and I talked about it and you’re done. If you didn’t have an idol, that was it. You’re done. They don’t do that anymore. It makes it more interesting to watch. But what I hadn’t really anticipated was what happens when a bunch of people decide that because someone had this implosion, they’re really not a threat anymore. So they’re going to tell you that because of the implosion, they’re voting for that person, but really they’re voting for you because you’re a little bit more dangerous. How do you persuade someone to vote for the person they’re telling you they’re going to vote for? Right. So everyone is telling me that the vote is on, Andy. And I just gut feeling in that moment just didn’t believe it. So I spent a while trying to figure out how do you make that true? That felt more and more impossible. So you’re trying to quickly figure out some other path, some other vote. If Andy hadn’t had that that meltdown, I think the vote probably goes a completely different direction. But because it did, I really didn’t have a lot of options. And so I went into tribal basically feeling like I had a 1 in 6 chance with a shot in the dark. I probably had about a 1 in 6 chance with the vote. I decided to go with my vote because if I had persuaded people to come along with me, I would have voted myself out by using the shot in the dark. Right. And so I really was thinking right before the vote, like, do I just dump my bag out, take out my shot in the dark and play it in front of everybody, which would have been really funny. But I decided not to because I really did think there was a chance that I had gotten enough people to vote with me. In the end, I didn’t. Which is why I wasn’t really surprised. But it was sort of the opposite of a blindside.

 

Louis Virtel It’s a shot in the dark. Great Peter Sellers picture. Second of all, no, I mean, it was fascinating to watch this one episode. But also I had just thought in general, I was like, how will Jon Lovett do on this show? And I will say, every option to me seemed available. I never thought you were like definitely counted out or whatever. Other than. It’s the gift of so many survivor players that play again and again that they just, for whatever reason, do not seem devious or calculating. And I just think when you’re a podcaster and you have to think on your feet all the time, there’s a general deviousness seeming quality about you, you know? Yeah.

 

Jon Lovett And I think probably like in fair, like I think there probably were moments, especially in the hours leading, like people ask like, well, why didn’t you try this? Or why did you try that? Like, I tried a bunch of different things that you don’t see, which obviously they’re not like the edit is completely fair. There was I was trying a bunch of different things in the run up to the vote, and in the end, those are things people could use against you because you know you’re trying to throw the vote somewhere else. Really like that. The way the tribe ended up breaking down. I had really had a good connection with Monica in the first like 24 hours. By happenstance, we didn’t really talk much. It ended up just naturally being Sarah and Sam, Rachel and Monica. Me and Andy had Andy not falling apart the way he did. I think there was a way for us to pull in Monica and Rachel. But because of what happened and because Rachel had already, I think, been a bit suspicious of Andy. It just made it very difficult. I just didn’t have a lot of room to maneuver and that comedy show part of the conversation. But I really did sit for like 15 or 20 minutes speaking like just talking out loud to the camera. Like I could try this, I can try that, I could do this, I could do that. I could try to get Sam and Andy to vote with me on Monica, try to pull Sierra, and I could try to go back to Rachel and Monica to vote for Sierra. Like all of these things were contemplate. I was really trying to work every piece of it. And because it was so early, everybody’s just looking for something they can count on, right? Yes. None of us really know each other that well. None of us have been through a vote and none of us really know who they can trust. And I think the throwing my name out there, it just became this this this sort of snowball rolling down the hill. I just. I just couldn’t stop it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it stops the conversation. It’s like, all right, we’ve made a decision. It’s over Ira, what did you think of this episode and moment in television history?

 

Ira Madison III Yes. The survivor watcher. Love it. Question for you. Actually, as a person who loved Survivor and a person who has seen how this new era has sort of shaken out for people, do you sort of think that for people going into a new tribe, especially the way, you know, you got attached to Andy and so it was sort of like, well, let’s get rid of him? And then part of it was also I saw like the beginning of the episode, you know, you sort of felt a little bit on the outs with them because you were like, Well, I’m older than them. You know, they’re talking about Vine. I missed Vine. You know, you’re trying to connect with them through TikTok. Do you think it’s more beneficial when you jump in to maybe just sort of try and lay a groundwork immediately with a lot of different people, then try to latch onto one person? Because there was the one weird moment and maybe this just the edit, but I remember when you did walk off with Andy, like there was the comment like, they’re walking off together. So I feel like, Are you immediately seen as a duo if you walk somewhere with someone?

 

Jon Lovett So I’ve thought about this like the social dynamics are what they are. You kind of can go back and look say, were there dynamics here at play that maybe led to this and maybe they did. But the reality is you don’t need any of the social pieces to strategically figure out why what happened happened. Right. Like.

 

Ira Madison III Of course.

 

Jon Lovett And so are there social layers to it? Absolutely. But I really do think it was a strategic decision. Andy had kind of exposed himself to all the tribes as being somebody unreliable and ultimately weak in like kind of as a player and like kind of a little bit off. And so he became somebody kind of he’d be he rendered himself a bit harmless if there was a mistake. I decided going into it like I could try to hide. Or I could just be myself thinking that basically, like, if you’re spending time with me, I’m going to come across as I like, I’m not going to be able to hide that. I’m like, I’m just not going be able to not make jokes. I’m going to I’m going to be myself. It’s going to come. And I thought like, what am I going to do? Like pretend to be somebody else? Or like, not not like, do what I would do. And having a normal conversation, I thought that I would come across even weird, like weirder if I tried something like that. And so I like, I think there was just no way for me not to seem as a threat. There are conversations that you don’t see where I basically tried to convey to members of the tribe that like, hey, like I want to go far with you. Like I want to be someone that helps you go far in the game. Like, like I want to help you. I want to be somebody as a sounding board to think strategically through the game. And I think people were open to that. It wasn’t like that wasn’t valid. It was just that in the moment there became a choice between me or Andy, and I would have made the same choice. Why on earth would you not keep Andy after what happened? That just made a lot of sense.

 

Ira Madison III Do you think it’s like now beneficial? I don’t know. Going into Survivor now to just sort of like, I don’t know, almost have like sort of a meltdown or weak moment on the show. I mean, we saw this with Bono, you know, I mean, do you think this is a moment where now players going into the show now are sort of with all of the twists and turns, They’re not playing like they used to. And now it’s sort of like we want to sort of keep a weaker person around. So are people going to start trying that? I don’t know. I don’t think so. This week.

 

Jon Lovett I don’t know. I like I don’t I really don’t know how strategically you think about like I had not I don’t know how you strategically think about somebody. Who? I think what was so difficult about is it like. I get further in the game, people will try anything to stay and just try to get to the next vote. But what it really felt like in the moment was somebody basically giving up a chance to win, just like basically saying is day three is literally the first challenge, immunity challenge. And you’re basically saying, I can’t win this game anymore, but God, I want to stay right here. And so what happens if a bunch of people do that or that becomes something people try? Or becomes kind of a move? I don’t know, because moves the valley, the validity of a move and whether it makes it possible or impossible for you to win is determined by the people watching it unfold. And if somebody were to say, I strategically pretended to be weak to get further in the game, like does that is that valuable? Does that people believe that that’s a worthy move? It really is like almost like a it’s about the evolving culture of Survivor.

 

Louis Virtel He was so erratically behaved from the jump, though, like from from Jeff’s initial saying hi to him that I kind of want him to be like Kaiser. So as a verbal kint situation, like, yeah, it was so fast how much you were like, This is bad news, you know?

 

Jon Lovett Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it’s high. Jeff Even in the middle of his breakdown, was so funny to me. And I don’t know, I just think that I’m not one of those morality players like or like, who deserves, like, to win and, like, Big Brother or like, Survivor or like, I think, like, play whatever game we need to play. Like, however you get there. That’s why I love fucking Angela on Big Brother. This psycho.

 

Louis Virtel She is still down.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, but I don’t know. There is just something about old school Survivor where I feel like if you were at that final tribal council and that’s why I felt bad for you. Actually did feel bad for John. I love it. I thought, like old school Survivor, you would have been able to sit there at Tribal and say, He’s basically giving up. I want to play this game and the rest of the tribe would have voted him out because at least in earlier Survivor, it was about we’re all here to play a game. And if someone is giving up, essentially they don’t want them to partake in the game anymore.

 

Jon Lovett Yeah. And I, I, it’s hard to remember, but like I, I do think part of the challenge too is like there was a little bit of that conversation in Tribal council, right? That’s what you’re saying. That’s why when they, when Jeff goes to me and I say like when there seems to be a natural target, who is the unnatural target? That was basically after a bunch of people are talking about why and he’s giving up or and he’s not he didn’t really give up his his sort of whatever meltdown or sort of breakdown was so damaging to the tribe and how you could there was just a bunch of conversations making all of those arguments. But because of shot in the dark. You were like, well, that means it’s not going to be him. So so that means the vote is still on me. But because of the conversations I had had with Sam and with Andy. So here is what’s happening. And here’s another reason why I didn’t play the shot in the dark going into Tribal. If the vote had shifted to one of the other targets, that wasn’t me and it wasn’t Andy. Everyone. You would have expected everyone to pretend the vote was on Andy. That’s what Sam would have done. That’s what Andy would have done. That’s what would have happened. And so it was really hard to know in the moment. Is the vote did the vote shift off of me or is it still on me? I just didn’t know. There was no way to know for sure.

 

Louis Virtel I was touched to hear that you learned most about the game. You said in the Ponderosa part of the show where you’re eliminated and then the other eliminated. Contestants come in one by one. What did you glean from that?

 

Jon Lovett So here’s here’s what’s really interesting about it, is when you get a limited look, I imagine you both open your calendar and put in March of next year, there’s going to be a night where everybody thinks I’m dumb. You know, like, that’s a weird thing to know that’s coming. But and so from the moment you’re eliminated, maybe you’re a bit in shock. Maybe you’re you’re disappointed or angry or whatever a set of emotions you have, but you haven’t really yet had the time to build the story you want to tell about what happened. Like, as we’re talking about this right now, I am telling a story. It is, I believe, probably as accurate a story as I can convince myself is the truth while protecting my ego in ways subtle and less subtle.

 

Louis Virtel Very. Joan Didion. Yes.

 

Jon Lovett But when someone is eliminated for that first couple of hours, they’re not able to do that yet. They’re kind of casting about for what happened, what went wrong, who hurt them, who lied to them? Who tricked them, who supported them, who back them, All this stuff. And so they come, they come into Ponderosa and they just talk for like two hours. And you just get this sense of before they’ve had a chance to protect themselves of what really happened and whether they mean to or not. You see like, I see what happened, right? I kind of see where they went wrong. Even if you don’t pointed out, you’re like, that sounds like you’re describing somebody who was annoyed by you or it sounds like you alienated yourself, whatever it may be. Person after person comes down and does this. And I just sort of decided like, I chose to go on Survivor. It couldn’t be more extracurricular, couldn’t have been more of a decision. So I’m not going to be negative or mad in this time. I’m just going to use this as an opportunity. I’m going to enjoy the fact that I am in Fiji and I’m going to learn what people have to say about what it was like for them to play this game. And that was really fascinating. You just it was really fascinating.

 

Louis Virtel And of course, you may end up being on The Amazing Race with Ira. I have no idea.

 

Jon Lovett How each other and things are going to go. No, no, no. It’s it’s it’s trader’s nice.

 

Louis Virtel Of course. That’s exactly what you should do. The Emmy winning traders.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Jon Lovett The Emmy Award winning traders.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, honestly, you’re a really good storyteller. I think Jeff Probst said that about you.

 

Jon Lovett He did.

 

Ira Madison III And I loved Your Brother has a podcast episode.

 

Jon Lovett Oh, thank you.

 

Ira Madison III I think you are. Yeah, I think that maybe that’s honestly coming from what you learn from the people coming on the Ponderosa, but you’re very smart about the game. You had very great, you know, confessionals. And, you know, it’s sad that you didn’t get further. But, you know.

 

Jon Lovett I thank you for saying that. I I’m sure there are places I’m sure I know that there are ways I could have played differently and stayed in.

 

Ira Madison III Been a comp beast?  You know.

 

Jon Lovett What’s a comp beast?

 

Louis Virtel Like a competition beast.

 

Ira Madison III Great at competitions. Yeah, since they were kind of like, we won’t win competitions without you with him in the game.

 

Jon Lovett Yeah, I think that was a way of that was a that was a face saving way to describe keeping the person who had the melt down. I’m not this was not about who could lift a fucking thing. But but I do think that, like, because of the way it went down, like I don’t feel regret about it because, like, I don’t feel like I fucked up my experience. I feel like I didn’t get the full experience. So I’m more disappointed than I am embarrassed. And what’s been really tough that actually truly the hardest part about it has not been, I thought, I don’t mind how they edited. I just like I trusted the edit and I felt validated by that. It’s that people were so excited that I was on it and it’s the opportunity cost. It’s the it’s the episode that didn’t happen. It was the fun we didn’t get to have. That’s the part that really bummed out. She’ll be like, I was so excited that you were on the show and I was so bad that you got out first. Like, that reaction was more than I expected. I expected people to be meaner, frankly, and it just makes me like, wow. Like this was like the reason I went on was not wrong. Like, it would have been such a good fucking time to watch this unfold. So that’s the part that makes me bums. But I don’t feel bad about anything that unfolded.

 

Louis Virtel Again, I don’t know what your ambitions are in this arena, but I have a feeling your reality TV days are not over. So I mean, like,.

 

Jon Lovett Everybody needs a hoby.

 

Louis Virtel I think, you know. Yes. Right now I want to see Alan Cumming tangle with you. Like play the bagpipes in your face.

 

Jon Lovett Hell yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Wow. I feel so bad, you know that Travis And I said first boot. Definitely. And it turned out to be true.

 

Jon Lovett All right. Fuck you, Ira. Bye everybody. So fun, love Keep It.

 

Ira Madison III Right. All right. Well, the tribe has spoken. Laughs again. So let’s get back to our real show once again. I’m Ira Madison, the third.

 

Louis Virtel I think I’m still Louis Virtel after all that. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And that was our guest for the episode, by the way. So I hope you had fun with him.

 

Louis Virtel Right. If you want to hear him talk at any other time, I have no idea how you can do that. Maybe try online.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I would do The Amazing Race. with Lovett.

 

Louis Virtel That literally among all competitions on television, The Amazing Race is what I would be the worst at.

 

Ira Madison III Really? Why so?

 

Louis Virtel I have no sense of lateral spatial direction and I don’t trust people who do. Why do people have a natural understanding of how to get around Florence if they’ve not been there before? That’s fair. You’re like a bird. You’re like a bat or something. What’s wrong.

 

Ira Madison III With you? But no, I think I would have. I think I would have more fun to play agents and traders.

 

Louis Virtel That’s fun. Also, Traitors is a game where? Well, like Big Brother, frankly, people are obsessed with what makes a good player. And they’re like, this person secretly was great in this. It really comes down to some bullshit luck. Honestly, I think, you know, and like you say something amazing one minute and then the next minute they’re all turning on you. Like, I just think you can’t prescribe a rubric of what actually makes a success on the show. So, you know, someone like Jon Lambert shouldn’t feel so bad about going home. First on Survivor, there’s plenty of other reasons you should feel about this.

 

Ira Madison III Feel a little bad. Yeah, right.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But also, I’m sorry if I’m on Survivor and Jeff Probst is handing me a yellow bandana and I’m turning the other way. But that tribe is cursed. That tribe is cursed.

 

Louis Virtel That I have to say, I don’t live for the physical challenges on Survivor. It feels like. Really? Yeah. I mean, like on Big Brother, they do updates of old games and there’s a lot of humor to them. So it’s like there’s a stupid gimmick or whatever. That always makes it a little bit funnier than the last time you saw it. Whereas on Survivor, it’s still the same Adult Discovery Zone obstacle course every time we’re still dragging a barrel out of the sea.

 

Ira Madison III I, I kind of think that I mean, I love Australian Survivor as we know which the thing about that game is it’s so much more brutal and I really love those games. Sometimes I am a person who’s like, okay, I don’t really care about the physical competitions, but I’ll show you them. Survivor Like they are sort of like more strenuous and they’re more fun and sort of innovative. And I think that like, they need to spruce up the games a bit for Yeah, us. Speaking of Australian Survivor, we’re getting two new seasons next season they’re doing brains versus Brawn again, but they’re also doing Australia versus the world. And we got a sneak peek of some of the cast members from that season and they’re bringing back Australian faves like King George and Sharni and Kirby from last season. But we will also be seeing Siri play again and we will also be seeing Tony Source and we will also be seeing Parvati play.

 

Louis Virtel Okay at this point. Parvati. Amount of hours logged on TV. It’s like she’s up there with like Carol burnett and Dick Van Dike. Like it’s so deep and long. And three of those who won the first season of the traitors. And one of the most I’m not going to call it shocking the fabulous wins on a reality show I’ve ever seen.

 

Ira Madison III That was a better win for me because, I mean, I feel like those bitches are still press that she won.

 

Also it’s just. Okay

 

Ira Madison III They’re angry.

 

Louis Virtel I get that. It’s probably the game is extremely personal when you play it or whatever. And so things feel really heated and intense and directly, directly personal. But they were ridiculous. I just I can’t imagine not taking a step back and thinking, okay, ultimately we are at a weird mansion in Europe now and Broadway’s Alan Cumming is screaming orders out us Take yourself less seriously.

 

Ira Madison III The East Village is. Yeah. Alan Cumming.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah. Club Cumming’s Alan Cumming What’s going on in this episode? Besides all.

 

Ira Madison III That? Besides all that, there’s a lot going on this week.

 

Louis Virtel No shit.

 

Ira Madison III Unfortunately or fortunately, I don’t know, my head spinning kind of from all of the content. There is a lot going on with Chapel Road again.

 

Louis Virtel We’ll get into her.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, we’ll get into her. There is trouble in the Rhythm Nation.

 

Louis Virtel Maybe the most trouble yet. We need extra choreography on this. Paula, get back in here.

 

Ira Madison III When? When we tell you later about what Janet said, you might think she’s. You might think she’s crazy, but she’s serious.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, there’s that. There’s that. Yeah. But also, Katy Perry has a new album out. Or does she? Because we’ll never speak of it again. It seems like it’s called One for three and the most like a. Bit about the new movie The Substance, which I am happy to say seems to be the main movie everybody is talking about. And I did not anticipate that for the career of Demi Moore at this, by the way. Demi Moore, as she says during the introduction to the movie at AMC Theaters, Demi Moore. Let’s make sure we all get that right.

 

Ira Madison III Demi Moore, very Demi Moore, very mindful, which, of course, Jimmy Fallon is the one who did that sketch with her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And that should have been.

 

Ira Madison III Us over.

 

Louis Virtel In L.A.. Come on, Trailer.

 

Ira Madison III Honestly, I feel like you’re a little step above that in brow, not too high brow. You’re not too high brow over a camel. But I feel like Jimmy Fallon is more of the specific ticktock, you mean. So, like, you’re not doing. You’re not doing tik-tok dances?

 

Louis Virtel No, he’s. He’s like, opening Play-Doh and throwing it out of the celebrity crowd. I say that affectionately. It’s fun. That’s about all we’re going to talk about today. We’ve already done so much. We’re exhausted. We’ll be right back with more Keep It.

 

[AD]

 

Ira Madison III Exciting music news coming to Keep It right now. Lady Gaga announced a new album.

 

Louis Virtel And we knew it was coming, and there were rumors that it would in fact be called Harlequin, which is, you know, where the words Harlequin come from, the character she’s playing in the upcoming Joker musical extravaganza or not, there’s not music in it, actually, or whatever, the press. But we are getting a new album from her, and the vibe so far is giving. I’m Breathless Music from an inspired by the film Dick Tracy or Prince on the Batman soundtrack. There’s lots of variability about what this project could mean for her career. It could mean nothing, could be a spicy little something in the middle of it. I can’t tell how much I’m looking forward to it yet, though.

 

Ira Madison III I do not think Prince or Stephen Sondheim are involved.

 

Louis Virtel I think she probably asked nicely at the crystal ball for them to join her.

 

Ira Madison III Knowing her, she probably did.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. No, I’m saying I.

 

Ira Madison III Which I went to their Cripps. I asked for help now. But that is all to distract us from the fact that we are here to discuss Katy Perry’s new album, One for Three. Which came out and. Honestly, I don’t hate it.

 

Louis Virtel I feel like I don’t hate it either. It’s not that I’m rooting. It’s not like I’m anxiously putting on these tracks again. But I feel like the point of this album, which is low on huge pop hooks, low on it, just doesn’t compare to some of the other songs in her career that were like instant classics. But the album is called One for Three, which is beeper pager slang for I Love You. And I feel like the vibe of the album is like light sentimentality with the pop beat behind it. Like it’s not going for pretension or wild swings that don’t work out. So for it to be like the lowest rated album on Metacritic since 2011, as I saw one tweet say about it feels a bit extreme to me. That said, it’s not essential either. So I can I can see being dismissive of the album, but I do feel like people are a bit over the top.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, it feels a little bit like if she were a pop star who were famous in the 80s or 90s, then this were her 19th album. We wouldn’t really be paying attention to it, but if you were a diehard fan, you would listen to it and and maybe you’d casually turn it on and be like, hey, there’s a couple songs I really like. On Katy Perry’s latest album.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And by the way, I think Lifetime’s has really grown on me. I think it’s now like a, you know, a B plus single. It’s it’s again, not as good as something like walking on air that I really did love once upon a time. But, you know, it’s not bad. I think the main problem with this album also is she herself the vocal is does one thing from start to finish on this album feels very flat in terms of what she is delivering and maybe it’s lacking specifically in things like character and winking jokes, like outsized personality moments that we used to associate with Katy Perry. If anything, it feels like if you’re going to make pop music now, it still feels like a lightly resigned I’m turning 40 maturity album.

 

Ira Madison III Which is annoying because she is a singer. She can sing. She can belt is that you bring up Walking on Air which has, you know, that amazing sort of Labus sound to it. And then you think of a song that really sort of hit me and grew on me, too. I’m his. He’s mine. Enjoyable. You know, the crystal water sample and that features dokie and it’s sort of a ho hum sample. But I enjoy the song quite a bit. Even though it doesn’t hit the heights of walking on air. I feel like if you’re going to sample our house track, you need to be wailing. You know, you need to give us something, a bit of a club banger. And I feel like that that lane is really good for her, but she hasn’t really ever leaned into it in a way that I feel like she should.

 

Louis Virtel And I think what you’re describing also, like how that sample is a little bit limp, I think people would describe ultimately this whole album is just limping in a bit. In a way. It feels like an album you put out to get through a record deal. You know, technically, these are all pop songs and they’re like competently written, but they could also kind of be sung by anybody. And that’s, I think, the worst thing I can say about this album is it sort of feels like someone dropped off 11 tracks at her door. You know, she just said she’s like, coming through on my go. Let’s go, Let’s go. Even if they are sweet songs with some memorable hooks, the song Truth, not one of her best songs. Still in my head a little bit. You know.

 

Ira Madison III That’s actually my favorite on the album. Okay. I love that. I’m really like All the Love.

 

Louis Virtel Good song.

 

Ira Madison III And I like gorgeous, but it’s, you know, it’s I like Aaron Joseph’s work and he produced a lot of the songs on this and he’s largely been a compatriot’s producer. And obviously some of these songs sound like they would probably be better if competitors were singing them.

 

Louis Virtel Well, let me just say also, Kim Petras has a lot of output we don’t talk about either. And it feels like one of those albums a little bit. Yeah. You know, like one of these seven albums she puts out in a given year, the one, you know, slot pop. Portland, Oregon are the one you don’t really listen to that much.

 

Ira Madison III By the way, Her Chainsmokers song is kind of a banger.

 

Louis Virtel I agree. Also, unfortunately, I think The Chainsmokers have several bonafide pop classics just in just in terms of can’t get them out of your head. I’m not saying it was justified when they were at number one for 18 weeks or whenever.

 

Ira Madison III That but also she’s apparently bona fide one of them.

 

Louis Virtel So are you page six. Who talks like that You variety in the 30s? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Kim Pedro steps out with The Chainsmokers. You know, that’s the Daily Mail. Listen, I think that the album is just sort of not deserving of the vitriol that it’s getting. That’s what I think the main conclusion that we’re at here is because. Boy. The guys are ruthless and a little ruthless with this, and it’s sort of become like hunting Katy Perry for sport at this point. And it’s okay. It’s a she’s like it’s easy to make fun of her sometimes, but the jokes aren’t that funny. And also the music isn’t that bad for you to be dragging it like this.

 

Louis Virtel I also just think she personally is not that bad. You know, it’s just like, what are we so upset at? I don’t know.

 

Ira Madison III Good to know.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Who cares? It was funny at the time.

 

Ira Madison III We love Catholicism all of a sudden. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I ran away from that. Stop putting it out there.

 

Ira Madison III Did we all miss spotlight?

 

Louis Virtel That bright that taught you something? Including which pants, silhouettes Rachel McAdams should avoid? No, I agree. I mean, like, again, the lowest score on Metacritic for 15 years. It’s not that. But I will say, though, it is weird about music. Like I think most critics know that even if they’re listen to an album they don’t particularly like, there’s an understanding that it’ll probably be music for somebody else. That’s kind of different than movies, where if it’s a failure, like tells a story poorly, you can basically pretended subjective and say, Well, this is a failure and so you’re likelier to give something like that a zero star rating. Whereas music, I feel like you rarely give a bomb rating to because it’s for somebody, there’s less things you can mark against it. But I feel like what really leads to her being so poorly rated in this case is expectation. Like, okay, she has these banger albums and we’re on the precipice always of her kind of coming back. You know, she’s like not never out of the game. She’s still got American Idol’s still making $20 million a year or whatever. Yeah, it feels like she’s primed for a big comeback moment. And then when you don’t get it, I think you want to turn the switch the other way and say, well, that sucks. You know, we were anticipating something and didn’t get it.

 

Ira Madison III Well, I think part of it, too, is she is always preparing us for that. You know, it’s sort of always acting like this is the big moment as opposed to say, I don’t know, Gwen Stefani is releasing an album soon and like, who gives a fuck if you’re a Gwen Stefani fan? Who likes her current music. The Blake era. Man, it’s probably for you. But if you’re an old gold safari fan, if you love no doubt, if you love the first two albums, you’re probably not going to even listen to it. But she is just sort of casually releasing music and it’s not really an event, right? But I feel like whenever Katy Perry drops a new album, there’s always this huge rollout and this whole like, Here’s a new era copy whatever number. There’s a seven.

 

Louis Virtel Something like that. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III It’s always a it’s always a big event, you know, and it’s always this big promo. And then when the music doesn’t match the buzz, then I feel like that is what makes reviewers, at least critics, a little angry with their pen. I do think that people are sort of rating this lower than they need to be rating it.

 

Louis Virtel But speaking of which, the Gwen Stefani album, it is a little confusing because it’s called Bouquet and she’s holding one flower on the cover. Let’s think about that for a moment. It’s not the same thing, but if you look at the track listing, every like 6 or 7 of the tracks have a different flower in them. So that’s where the term bouquet comes from. And I have to say, I applaud a literal album concept. We rarely get those anymore. Like when Olivia Newton-John released the physical album. And then all of the songs are called things like Tied Up or things involving physicality like that. So old school show biz, and I applaud that. So hopefully it’ll be good. And I still like that Gwen Stefani song Make Me Like You. So there’s there’s a chance she’s still got it.

 

Ira Madison III That was a really great target.

 

Louis Virtel Commercial shot live at some awards show for $15 Million. It’s one of the most expensive music videos ever made.

 

Ira Madison III Take that, Michael.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Which reminds me, we should just move this along to the Keep It segment so we can get to the Jacksons. But anyway.

 

Ira Madison III All right. I think that’s it with Katy Perry, to be honest. I’m streaming. So shout out to her.

 

Louis Virtel And again, if I haven’t said this before, there’s a billboard is doing a list of the top 25 pop stars of the 21st century, and she came in at 25. She should be top ten. It’s an obnoxious listing. She’s behind like like so many people who aren’t as significant in terms of radio airplay as she is. So that’s my. We love you anyway. Katy Perry, Sentiment of the day.

 

Ira Madison III Where’s Jelly Roll?

 

Louis Virtel Still at the Emmys. Still telling you it’s okay to be dead.

 

Ira Madison III Geared up for the Oscars. A duet between Jelly Roll and her. My God.

 

Louis Virtel I don’t hate it. I don’t hate it. Actually, he seems kind of like a funny, nice guy.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, we’re going to get into the substance. Summer is over, which means it is time to put away the popcorn flicks. And it’s time for Louis to stock up on Oscar movies to start his long winter hibernation.

 

Louis Virtel I always forget I dread summer being over. And then I realize, I actually now get the entertainment I want. God is looking out for me that way.

 

Ira Madison III First up is can best screenplay winner the substance.

 

Louis Virtel Weird choice. Sorry, Screenplay. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Well, it is a French film and the French are kooky and they love themselves.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yeah, Yeah. No, it’s like the BAFTAs when, like, Helena Bonham Carter wins for The King’s Speech. I’m like, girl, she just gave somebody a hug. You gave her a BAFTA for that?

 

Ira Madison III So did we find the film underwhelming, or will we be shouting? Give me Demi Moore.

 

Louis Virtel Wow. That was three pods. What’s happening there? Okay, I’ll say this. I avoided reading about this movie before him because people were so. But because the buzz on this movie was just go see it as opposed to look out for this thing or look out for this thing. So I went in not knowing much. I’m a little disappointed in this movie. Yes, because I. I guess this actually does have to do with anticipation because people said, it’s ten times more insane than hereditary. And I don’t agree with that. I think Hereditary is still a crazier movie, which that will be irrelevant to what I say in a second. I just feel like in terms of a body horror movie, we have kind of already seen this thing of being obsessed with youthfulness like male gaze, black swan women versus women, self versus self stuff handled with body horror. I felt like I had kind of seen this movie before.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like that’s the whole point of this movie, although I feel like it is definitely living in a retro gray 90s sort of era. I mean, the idea of Demi Moore sort of being jealous of a younger woman in Hollywood with first of all, Demi Moore is hot as fuck.

 

Louis Virtel She looks spectacular.

 

Ira Madison III Right. And leading a film at Sexy Women in Hollywood at this point are sort of her age at this point. I feel like it is sort of a throwback to the 90s when there was, you know, someone younger and younger is coming down the stairs, very showgirls, where a girl who’s like 19 to 21 is going to come and steal your spot. I mean, the whole idea of her doing a Jazzercise TV show is very retrograde. I feel like the whole thing is meant to be a throwback, so I didn’t mind any of that.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. I will also just explain the movie to people who want a synopsis and don’t mind being spoiled a bit. But basically, Demi Moore is this woman who is in the 50s, I guess, hosting, as IRA said, a Jazzercise like TV show, Very Jane Fonda coated Elizabeth Sparkle. Yeah, Her name is Elizabeth Sparkle and she is a one time movie star and Oscar winner, according to this movie. And eventually she kind of has fans. It’s this like TV extravaganza. And then she is canned and they want somebody younger and prettier. And she encounters this stuff called the substance, which you can inject. And the rule is you’ll get to be this younger, hotter version of yourself or a person who’s sort of connected to you, but you only get to do it for seven days at a time, and then you have to switch bodies with that person and go back to your old self. So you only get seven days of this young hotness before you go back to your regular self. And what happens is and the younger self is, of course, played by Margaret Qualley, who I think is our leading Napa baby at the moment. If I had to rank them on my notes. Yeah. She’s also one of those people where she still feels like a brand new star to me. And I’ve already seen her in eight movies. You know what I mean? Like, shoot. Like, it’s like when Jessica Chastain was in those 30 movies in the one year and she was suddenly a part of culture.

 

Ira Madison III I also want to say that every time she’s in a different movie, I be maybe this is just my like, I feel like I recognize white people. You know, I’m not familiar with your game.

 

Louis Virtel You know, you’re taking care. You got your handy dandy notebook. You’re taking notes. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I pick up what you pick from, you know. But every time I’m watching her in a movie, I’m sort of like, And then at the end, when it says Margaret Qualley in the credits, I’m like, that was her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. She also is somebody who I think is a really versatile actress but doesn’t really look like it when you’re looking at her. You’re like, she just being herself. But no, she does lots of sorts of different kooky things in poor things, for example. But anyway, so there’s Demi Moore and then this substance person who emerges, Margaret Qualley. And in the going back and forth, the demi person gets more and more wretched, more and more resentful. She kind of hates the younger self for taking more of her time. And then the younger Margaret Qualley character starts abusing the substance, staying in with the substance too long, which has reverberations. Anyway, it becomes this dual consciousness thing that plays out in terms of body horror later in the movie. I think also a problem. I agree, IRA. It’s supposed to be a throwback in certain ways. I just felt like from the minute we see the words, the substance, I know the body horror we’re getting. You know, like I know eventually this woman is going to be so decrepit, so doubled over, so a shell of her former self. And I think it’s to the movie’s credit that it’s not going for nuance. They literally are like the men are. Gross This woman wants this one youthful potion thing. Our death becomes her. And we’re going to see how it plays out. That said, when it’s as simple as a fairy tale or as a simple as a Twilight Zone episode, I didn’t feel like I got enough ingenuity otherwise to make it a thumbs up for me.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like that third act gag, you know, just turn the spoiler a bit. You know, I saw that it was going back to Demi, getting a bit decrepit, but I was not seeing the bitch running back to the place and getting. Be accelerate again the activation again and then a new thing reemerging. Yeah. I was not expecting that. I felt like that entire third act with, you know, and then the dream sequence and then the whole almost reverse. Carrie was so much fun to me and I thought that the movie was having so much fun in those moments. And it wasn’t about logic and you got those moments from the beginning, to be honest. I like that when, you know, Margaret Qualley is like, I don’t want to look at Demi Moore lying on the carpet in the living room anymore, and she’s just sort of like, you cut to her with a sledgehammer building a secret room in her bathroom, and it’s no explanation of how she does this. No, just.

 

Louis Virtel Write into fantasy.

 

Ira Madison III It’s great. And even the other part of the fantasy of having to climb like down under this is sort of like garage door in this hidden sort of abandoned building to get the substance in the first place. I don’t know. It felt so foreign and goofy and cartoonish to me that I was on board the entire time.

 

Louis Virtel I think the thing is, it does have these flourishes that are comical, but I felt like they were always just sort of funny. It was like, you know, just a play on. Isn’t she desperate? This is a fairy tale gone awry. This is this is a Rumpelstiltskin like curse.

 

Ira Madison III The script isn’t very funny. The situations are funny as the actors are funny. I think that the dialog could have used a bit more of a pass. To be honest, I don’t understand how it won best screenplay. Yeah. But I am on board for the whole movie in general.

 

Louis Virtel The awards conversation around this, people are saying, I hope Demi Moore gets a Best Actress nomination. I don’t really think this role is like that. Like she she is great and looks fabulous, is great at the role. But it’s not really it’s not an emotional performance because the movie, again, is this purposely two dimensional cartoon thing. You know, I almost would compare it to Madonna in Evita, which is to say it’s like one long music video. In fact, I think this movie would have been better as a music video or a short film or an episode of television. That’s what I can say about this movie. But like, there’s not enough real acting going on. Like it’s a it’s a bunch of wearing, you know, David Cronenberg, Rick Baker, like prosthetics, ultimately, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, but that’s the whole point of the set about.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, but true. But when you’re comparing that to what I’m sure like Nicole Kidman brings in baby girl, there’s just no comparison for me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, I mean, you know, like, this is sort of like the fly, you know, I think that, like, that’s not the whole point of, like, the pseudo music video and the thing of just like, you seeing all these sort of bracing and fun images on screen. I mean, like, I think that’s the whole point of especially sort of like French cinema. And I love the the director of this film, Callie Forgy. She’s just having a fucking good ass time. I don’t know if you ever saw her film Revenge, a 2017 film.

 

Louis Virtel My friends love that movie. I have not seen it.

 

Ira Madison III Bonkers as hell.

 

Louis Virtel And bonkers is important. And I will say, like, it’s interesting to try to characterize this movie because. Horror is correct, but I think it’s more accurate to call it a satire or more than I would call it horror, ultimately, because it’s not going for a jump scares. You know, it’s just it’s gruesome. It’s funny and gruesome.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, She’s down to clown. She’s having a good time.

 

Louis Virtel Right, Right. Margaret Qualley also very good in the movie. Dennis Quaid, actually amusingly awful as the TV exac who’s a monster and chewing shrimp in a very gross. If you have misophonia that thing where you can’t listen to people, you don’t watch this movie.

 

Ira Madison III I also just loved the fact that they just call it cut. Calling for a while. Always new thing, new show. Well, that was funny to me. And that was used on the talk show. The show.

 

Louis Virtel The funniest part of the movie to me is when she’s filming this stupid show where she’s just doing aerobics on television, jumping in on her ass. There’s a part where the substance reacts and you see like something jolts out of her skin. And then the the male producer is like, hold on, We need to watch that back. Someone saw something bizarre. Just that was funny like that play on like male gaze penis that almost ran into something a little innovative to me, but it sort of shied away from that. Ultimately, it was it was really just about, I’m a woman in Hollywood and now I’m a mess.

 

Ira Madison III I really, really enjoyed it. I felt like there were a bit more sort of maybe nuances that the film was missing. Obviously, there were, you know, some things that maybe would have been thrown in to make it more logical. But the film wasn’t really caring about logic. So who gets a thought? But yeah, I mean, case in point, there’s a moment where she runs into at the diner, someone else who is on the substance. And that’s a helpful moment to sort of ground with them in the fact of, you know, other people are using it. But my other question, too, was she’s in Hollywood, right? Like, how much does this shit cost it? If you’re in Hollywood and you’re surrounded by these exacts and these people watching the TV show, etc.. Right. If it is a metaphor for ozempic and sort of like plastic surgery and sort of where our body and image culture is right now, Right? Would there not be other people in the industry on the substance? Yes. Number 503.

 

Louis Virtel That’s that’s true. Like it would be clear in a way to the other people in this movie what was going on. You know, like they play like she only is happening to her the substance or that there’s a secret network of people who are distributing this to her. But obviously it’s not that secret. So, yeah, that’s that’s just not something that’s important to the movie, like these these credibility gaps. But that’s a good point. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, that’s a completely different movie, though. You know, if there’s like multiple people vanishing for weeks at a time, you know? Yeah. This is just focus on Demi and Vaughn was. I had a really fucking good time. And when I see it again, I don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Here. One last problem with this movie. So the heart marker quality character becomes a ratings sensation, and then she’s told she gets to host the end of year, the New Year’s special or whatever. And at that moment, I had an idea for a comedy beat and I was like, I hope this happens. I wanted her to be a decrepit monster who then crawls into the microphone, Happy New Year. But she didn’t do it. They didn’t do anything with the New Year’s thing. I think that would have been funny.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Yeah. Well. That’s right.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you. Yes. I mean, again, I appreciate the gusto. Fell short for me.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Rose has made it more of a joke path.

 

Louis Virtel I think so too. Yeah. It wanted to be funny. It wanted to be funny.

 

Ira Madison III Because even the scene of there’s. There’s a scene where Margaret Qualley has to run to the bathroom because she’s having a, like, a substance reaction. And there’s this hot guy that she’s in bed with who gets up and go to the bathroom. And it’s just a very simple, are you having lady problems? Right. And that scene could have been so much funnier.

 

Louis Virtel Agreed. Right. Like that. They could have had three more jokes right there as opposed to that one sort of expected joke from the dumbest guy lingering.

 

Ira Madison III The funniest running bit was the neighbor, though.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And he did that really well. She has this pervy neighbor who is like who sees her get hot and then suddenly is stalking her and but doing it happily. Like she should be so happy that he’s there.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Anyway, I think that it is definitely fucking worth seeing.

 

Louis Virtel So, yeah, come back and scream at me. You know how I love a little rowdiness in the comics.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back. Keep it.

 

Jon Lovett [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. But it’s not this week.

 

Louis Virtel No, not for a second. Sorry. Speaking of gruesome, it continues. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I am so unexcited about my Keep It this week.

 

Louis Virtel The ugliest yet. We used to have a board of stars behind us and keep it like a collage. And I believe she was one of them. So this is tough. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Why don’t we just start with mine? Okay. Mine is Janet Jackson. Unfortunately.

 

Louis Virtel One of the greatest celebrities we’ll ever have.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, Truly. She was asked in an interview with The Guardian recently. First of all, why is Janet doing interviews?

 

Louis Virtel I this is the beginning of the issue because she was the queen of not giving an interview for a while. And I didn’t know that there was a reason why. And now we know there’s a reason why.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So she was asked about America potentially voting in its first Black-female president.

 

Louis Virtel Mmmhmmm. What could go wrong?

 

Ira Madison III Sure. But this is a question that Essence should be asking her, by the way, The Guardian. What are we doing here? Yeah. Tough. Well, you know what they supposedly said She’s not black. That’s what I heard. That she’s Indian. Her father’s white. That’s what I was told. I mean, I haven’t watched the news in a few days. I was told they discovered her father was white. I don’t know. Honestly, I don’t want to answer that because I really, truthfully don’t know. I think either way it goes, it’s going to be mayhem.

 

Louis Virtel First of all, if you didn’t know this, Janet Jackson is a cross between Marilyn Monroe and Venus Extravaganza from Birds of Prey. Second of all. First of all. My absolute favorite part of the quote, which is, by the way, an atrocious quote, is I haven’t seen the news in a couple of days, as if maybe a change since then, since I got my Intel. It is so nonsense. I mean, like, I’m sure a lot of us had the same reaction where it’s illuminating in that way, where you’re like, some people are getting their knowledge, the knowledge, if you will. Janet. Janet, fans from things you would never even anticipate, like Janet Jackson, somebody who seems like a cool we’re used to rooting for Janet Jackson, like the Justin Timberlake saga. We initially we instinctively connect with Janet Jackson. And yet I look at this, I’m like, this is somebody I have never met before.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So obviously, we’ve heard this before from Donald Trump, Harris’s father, Donald Harris is Jamaican. He’s a Stanford professor and he’s split from her Indian mother when she was five. There’s been a lot of back and forth about her racial makeup, obviously, because she’s mixed. And it’s really just sort of a sequel to the Obama birther bullshit.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I mean, it’s like borderline the same verbiage.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. But wait. There’s more amid the backlash. BuzzFeed spoke to Mo al-Masri, a man who claimed to be her manager and is credited as a producer on her upcoming documentary. Maybe that’s why she’s giving interviews. This documentary.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, Giving it a shot.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. He has given statements about Jen in the past, by the way. Okay. So in a statement to BuzzFeed, he said, Janet Jackson would like to clarify her recent comments. She recognizes her statements regarding Vice President Kamala Harris as racial identity were based on misinformation. Janet respects Harris’s dual heritage as both black and Indian and apologizes for any confusion caused. She values the diversity Harris represents and understands the importance of celebrating that in today’s society. Janet remains committed to promoting unity and understanding. The rhythm nation back in tact there intact.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. We’re all we’re all back in our black hats and our militaristic garb.

 

Ira Madison III But then. Janet’s reps subsequently told Variety that the apology was made by a person who was not the singer’s manager as he had claimed, and thus was not authorized to speak on her behalf.

 

Louis Virtel So they just decided, can you just let us make this as worse as possible, that this is our whole thing right now?

 

Ira Madison III Moe then told Variety via email. I no longer work for her. I was fired by Janet and Randy Jackson, her brother. After attempts to improve her image in front of public opinion and her fans. And this is something I do not deserve.

 

Louis Virtel One of the messiest moments in recent pop culture history.

 

Ira Madison III Wow.

 

Louis Virtel And also, Randy Jackson, the one we just named, is apparently deeply Q anon affiliated. You know what? Maybe there are members of the Jackson family who can be wrong from time to time. I don’t know. There’s no precedent for it in human history, so.

 

Ira Madison III You mean LaToya when she said fagot on TV that time?

 

Louis Virtel She absolutely can say that. Excuse me.

 

Ira Madison III Wow. This song. Yes.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, I was all excited to see Janet Jackson because she’s doing like a Vegas residency, which we sort of were clued into because she went and saw Kylie’s. And so we were, like, anticipating it even then. And then she signed up to do it. Like, I think she’ll be doing New Year’s shows. And now, in good conscience, can I go to see that show? I mean, I was so looking forward to it.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, yes.

 

Louis Virtel But if she does throb, I’ve got to be there. I’ve got to.

 

Ira Madison III Give it a date. Yes. But what I will say is wild about this statement is not that Janet said it. I mean, it shocked me, obviously, that she said it. But being under the influence of Randy Jackson, obviously. Her brain’s been twisted. Or maybe she’s just felt this way for a while. I don’t know. You know, maybe she’s also a closet Republican. Who can say what is really going on in the house of Jackson? Okay. Right. We haven’t really known what’s ever going on with that family, ever. You know.

 

Louis Virtel Correct. You’re right. All the glimpses we’ve had is like projection and guessing and stuff. We don’t know anything personally about a lot of these people. Correct. Ruby, I hope you’re well.

 

Ira Madison III Even when we say we know things about, say, like Beyoncé or Rihanna and stuff, like we know more about them than we do about the Jacksons because they came up in the era at least where they were doling out information to the public through the tabloids or through interviews in the way that they wanted to. You know, they came up pretty easy. We don’t really know the Jackson family. But what shocked me about the response to this is now, you know, amidst all of the Michael drama, the way that people who are Michael Stans defend him online constantly, you know, like an insane ways.

 

Louis Virtel Certainly the most insane fans who ever left. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Now, I was not prepared for those same people to be coming out for Janet. But, of course. Right.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III So you have people in comments basically arguing in defense of Janet’s comments about Kamala Harris because they are so deeply entrenched in defending the Jackson family.

 

Louis Virtel Which, I mean, these don’t strike me as, you know, political science minded people. So I feel like, you know, like stepping where they don’t really have the range to step. Also, just like. So your whole angle is you love the Jacksons or you’re not going to be racist. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III Right. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Doesn’t really matter.

 

Ira Madison III What happened to. Doesn’t matter if you’re black or white or Indian. Please.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Which is, by the way, I just want to say that.

 

Ira Madison III The song didn’t say that, by the way. I didn’t say Indian. That was the problem. Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel He wasn’t specific enough? Yes. He made it a binary, which we don’t believe in. There’s a Siskel and Ebert episode where they get into the black or white video. Look it up. It’s crazy how wrong they are. They watch the video and everything. They say. I’m like, Do we not watch the same thing? Anyway, moving on. Yeah. It’s been a really difficult week. I want I root for Janet Jackson and I root for her also to give interviews. So when we get this moment that’s just this unguarded and also it’s unusually unguarded for her. You’re telling me she just said that to a reporter? Like it feels like something that I look, I’m sure she said it the way she said it, and I’m assuming the reporter logged it in good faith. It feels like something you say when you think somebody isn’t recording. I just. I’m shocked. I’m shocked.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. You know what I’m wondering? Michael Jackson fans release doves at the courthouse. Yeah. No. Are Janet Stans going to be releasing black cats at the White House?

 

Louis Virtel Smart.

 

Ira Madison III One of her best to just cats to be out in around the White House grounds, which, given the current situation with J.D. Vance and the lies about his sheds might cause some trouble.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, no kidding. Well, also, I mean, I was just hearing recently that Diddy’s streaming is up at the moment, like people maybe remembered him and looked up the song. And I’m not comparing Janet Jackson to Diddy in any way, but if she does release Black Cat, it’s all over the White House. And then people go and listen to that song. It might have been worth it as long as they if Black Cat were the next murder on the dance floor that I heard all the time, I wouldn’t hate it. Come on. We have pride. Let’s go.

 

Ira Madison III By the way, that is such a more insidious thing than even sort of like our Kelly, Right. The Diddy thing. Because Diddy has so many either remixes or features are things where he just wormed his annoying ass on to songs that when you when we listen to them in the first place I wasn’t like I wasn’t listening to All about the Benjamins to hear Diddy. I was listening to it to hear Lil Kim’s verse, you know, like Diddy is on so many fucking songs that I do not like. I turn it off when it’s his verse in the first place. Like, tell me what Christina Aguilera like. I don’t want to hear him saying, Let’s play a game. I’m like, I want to hear Christina Aguilera wailing. You’re right. It’s so fucking annoying. He was, like, wormed his way into the trenches of so many people’s songs. But you just really can’t cut him out of it.

 

Louis Virtel He was sort of immediately supplanted by Snoop Dogg in that way, where it’s just like every fifth song on the charts involved him. But before that, it was Diddy. Yeah. So good luck avoiding him, even though you you. We think you are. He is basically 1990s and 2000 pop culture personified so.

 

Ira Madison III Well I mean also about Jessie Nelson remember her. I was glad that one single of hers a flop so hard that no one remembers that the one that sample bad boy for life. So hard to imagine if that was her only song and it was a hit and then she couldn’t perform it anymore.

 

Louis Virtel Well, the politics beat is not over today because we’re going to get to make our best wishes to the otherwise delightful chaperon who whose album I think everybody is now finally on board with. I was like a late comer, but I run I’ve talked about this in recent weeks. Super graphic, Ultra modern Girl a smash. My think is Karma a smash, actually. Her interviews, generally speaking, a smash. And then recently in an interview with the you guessed it, Guardian chaperon was escorted out of there. I they are cooking up something eye of Newt like it’s all going into the cauldron. She was asked if she would support Kamala Harris and she said, I have so many issues with our government and everywhere. There are so many things that I would want to change. So I don’t feel pressured to endorse someone. There’s problems on both sides. I encourage people to use your critical thinking skills, use your vote, vote smart, vote for what’s going on in your city. I have friends who say things like. She’s young. Why are we expecting this young pop star who became famous yesterday to say all the right things? It’s not all the right things. It’s one thing. Say, don’t vote for fucking Donald Trump. You can’t be touting the trans community. You can’t be touting drag culture communities that are so directly affected by this fucking loser without saying absolutely don’t vote for him. There is a difference. There’s I mean, the words both sides take in popular culture for two seconds. We simply don’t say that anymore unless you’re referencing the hits of Joni Mitchell, in which case put on both sides. Now it’s her best song. Otherwise, yeah, maybe she’ll retract this or say something in the future. Obvious. I have been on board with everything Shapiro has done up until this point. I love screaming that fans are disgusting, as you know. You know, when like once upon a time when people would go up to Madonna and she’d say, Get away from me and like, hit him with their fur coat or something. I love that shit.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, listen, I will say that. I’m less angry at her. And I’m going to get to this, that I am at some very specific thing that seems to be going on on the Internet. And that is all of these websites like this particularly came from a Internet account called pop flop, which is every single account now seems to be trying to copy pop.

 

Louis Virtel Crave Right, which is a sensation, but at the same time just a Twitter account. So why is that moneymaking? Why are we copying it anyway?

 

Ira Madison III So its pop flop edits. It was a verified Twitter account. So I guess they’re trying to make money off of impressions. And this quote was initially not even credited to the interview. And what people also don’t even realize is this first interview, this first quote about politics was said immediately after the Donald Trump and Biden debate. So it’s not even a recent interview. What happens is these I feel like these Internet accounts now because every fucking day we are inundated with a new quote from chaperoned reveals or like the like she has like, talks about she has depression or whatever, and I feel like each fucking day it’s just easy for one of these things to just like, you just pull a new quote from Shapiro.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right.

 

Ira Madison III You put it out and it’s the Internet is going to talk about it all day. That’s all you have to do. You know, and I think it’s fucking annoying to do to her. I think it’s, like, annoying to do to us. And I think that she could have chosen her words better. I think that when you get into sort of what she said before, the fact that like she wanted and she the reason why she didn’t perform at the White House is because she wanted to sort of read Palestinian poetry. But her team told her that that wouldn’t be right. That probably wouldn’t be safe for her to do.

 

Louis Virtel And she also said she didn’t want to be a monkey for pride, which I actually respect specifically that verbiage. That’s like kind of cool.

 

Ira Madison III And she has said specifically, you know, that trans rights is very important to her and they cannot have sex people making decisions for trans people, period. As she has said since Kamala became the nominee, that she is luckily to be alive, where we have sort of a historical black female nominee for president. You know, I think. It’s not unreasonable for someone who’s 26 and who supports Palestine to be very upset with the government that is sending arms to Israel.

 

Louis Virtel No. By all means, say please.

 

Ira Madison III Say that specifically. Yes. And I think it’s hard because specifically saying the words there’s problems on both sides will make people think that. You’re saying both sides are the same. I mean, there are problems on both sides. But I think you need to specifically say. Not because people will be like you’re saying both the same because that reminds us of Trump saying, you know, there’s very fine people on both sides, you know.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. And I mean, like and of course, there’s no reason to compare her to him, etc.. Yeah. Just being explicit about that point, like the genocide thing weighs heavily on me. And by the way, everybody. So I’m sorry. You’re not everybody.

 

Ira Madison III Well, no. Yeah. I would also say not everybody, because I also feel like there is that thing, too, of any criticism of Kamala at this point, because we’re trying because we’re getting so much closer to the election. You’re accused of being a Republican online now. Right. Which is crazy because she is out here talking about how much Dick Cheney loves her every other day. So who’s really being Republican?

 

Louis Virtel Well, also, I just feel like in general, there’s a sentiment about voting for somebody where because we’re in, you know, inundated sort of Stan culture, if you’re voting for someone, that means like you’re like fucking obsessed with everything about them. Like, don’t be illusion. Like voting for someone is what’s the best path forward? Like it’s about a whole administration. Just what? So I feel like there’s a lot of sentiment out there just being like, if if you’re saying you’re voting for her, you’re being rah rah. But I don’t think you have to be so.

 

Ira Madison III Which I think that is exactly why she is not endorsing Kamala and as instead being like, you can vote for her. And I think that a lot of celebrities actually should not be endorsing a political candidate. If you’re a Taylor Swift or Beyoncé and you have and like you’re the biggest fucking celebrity in the world. Sure. You know. But a lot of people forget that an endorsement is bigger than voting. Voting means, you know, you are making up your mind at the ballot that this is just sort of the best decision for you, you know? But an endorsement sort of means that you are a like full throated endorse all of their policies, you know?

 

Louis Virtel You may have to answer later for you.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It means you have to answer later for shit when you do that endorsement. Case in point. Politicians all the time, you know, you endorse something. I mean, maybe pop stars don’t really have to deal with that, but you endorse any sort of politician, and then next time you’re running for office or you’re interviewed or something, it’s like, well, you endorsed this person. And remember when they voted for the war in Iraq, and it’s like, I wasn’t endorsing that.

 

Louis Virtel I want to say my last sort of empathetic thing about this is maybe she was asked the question sort of in a surprise way or offhandedly or something. And so in that moment, maybe just not prepared to answer it. Well, which is always something you have to think about when you get these random soundbites, like what is the actual occasion of the interview? What is the person asking? Because like, if it’s not a full GQ spread or Rolling Stone article, you know, it’s pretty strange. Like like did they get one question on a red carpet where they were breezing by. You know, you never actually know the physical context of what’s happening, too. So I’m not saying it’s an excuse for anybody, but something to think about.

 

Ira Madison III But also bring back that’s why you also want to bring back like MTV News or something, you know, because I also think that Chappell is a funny and sort of sarcastic and sort of sassy, dry witted lesbian, and you sort of can’t read her tone in a lot of these quotes that just get parsed online all the time. Like people always say, she complains about everything, like when that quote came out about her making fun of Hailey Bieber’s Erewhon smoothie, she’s like, This isn’t a smoothie. It’s a milkshake. But I’m like, if you heard her saying it in the interview, her tone would probably not come across as complaining. It would come across you joking with your friends being like, This ain’t a smoothie. It’s a milkshake.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to say, by the way, I had three girlfriends in my hometown last week and nothing, nothing could have deterred them from getting that fucking shake. So I’m sorry. People with us, no matter what. I did not. I actually don’t even know what’s in it. And I love that. I love the milkshake and alkalis culture.

 

Ira Madison III Well, Louis, I will tell you exactly what’s in Hailey Bieber. Strawberry glaze, skin smoothie.

 

Louis Virtel Bone chilling. Okay.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, it sounds like something in Mrs. Lovett’s meat shop, for one.

 

Louis Virtel And by Mrs. Lovett, we don’t mean John.

 

Ira Madison III The full ingredients are more organic. Almond milk, organic banana, organic strawberries, organic avocado, organic dates, organic maple sirup, vital proteins, vanilla collagen, vanilla, stevia. Seymour’s Zuma Valley. Organic coconut cream. Driscoll’s organic strawberry glaze. Yeah, baby, that’s a milkshake.

 

Louis Virtel Baby. It’s also every ingredient.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, it’s.

 

Louis Virtel I remember when you would put milk and strawberries together. That was a. Yeah. No, that’s definitely a milkshake. It’s like $17 or something, So.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, that’s maple sirup and vanilla and dates and banana and milk. It’s. What are we doing here?

 

Louis Virtel Maple sirup. That is a bit much. Okay. Anyway, I’m going to actually definitely get it, so I’ll report back and tell you.

 

Ira Madison III All right. Well, that’s our episode this week. We cause a little.

 

Louis Virtel Zany, but yeah, it was. Everything was so urgent, you know, it’s like it was like an all hands on deck e news situation, you know, where they bring in Jules Asner, and she’s, like, sitting down at the table, and it looks like the War Room from Dr. Strangelove.

 

Ira Madison III Was a sort of thematic for us to bring Lovett in and then kick him out immediately.

 

Louis Virtel Within eight minutes. Yeah, those are great. I just want to, before we go to Jeff Probst on Rock and Roll Jeopardy! You look up all the episodes of that. That was what he did immediately before Survivor. Fabulous host, Fabulous host. Fabulous show.

 

Ira Madison III Rock and roll. Jeopardy! Was it just music?

 

Louis Virtel Yes, it was VH1 And they had celebrity episodes, too. But I mean, for someone like you, you wouldn’t miss a question. There was a place for us once upon a time, and there will be again when Pop Culture Jeopardy premieres in December. I watched all the episodes I wrote on it. You’ll love it.

 

Ira Madison III Look, are you getting that promo?

 

Louis Virtel I know, I know. And I want that second Emmy nomination. That’s why.

 

Ira Madison III Also. Look at me. I finally have. Advance reader copies.

 

Louis Virtel My God. I don’t have one in my hands.

 

Ira Madison III I’m going to mail one, too. Okay. Yes. So. But I don’t like the crooked. So I’m there once a year. But yeah, we have the year, so go ahead and preorder one. Kids are.

 

Louis Virtel And I’m referring to Hailey Bieber shake. Yeah. Yeah. Anyhow, they should. They really should come together.

 

Ira Madison III They really. I’m free. Hailey Bieber Shake a log with a book. Can you imagine Hailey Bieber actually do promo for us on the show. Come on, keep it. Yeah. What are you doing? Just come on over. Yeah. Anyway, we will see you next week. Don’t forget to follow Crooked Media on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok.

 

Louis Virtel You can also subscribe to Keep It on YouTube for access to full episodes and other exclusive content. And if you’re as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review.

 

Ira Madison III Keep It is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are Chris Lord and Kennedy Hill. Our executive producers are Ira Madison, the third, Louis Virtel and Kendra James.

 

Louis Virtel Our digital team is Megan Patsel, Claudia Shang and Rachel Gaieski. This episode was recorded and mixed by Evan Sutton. Thank you to Matt DeGroot, David Toles, Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landes for production support every week.