Do the holidays leave you feeling burnt out or uncomfortable? This time of year can be emotionally, physically, and psychologically taxing, if you do not practice the proper self care. The ladies of Imani State of Mind are giving you the tools to set the boundaries you didn’t know you needed this holiday season.

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to Imani State of Mind, everybody. I’m Dr. Imani. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And I am Meg Scoop. How are you? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I’m–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Happy, blessed day. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I know, right? I’m good. I’m good. Happy day for real. Because, let’s see, Christmas is next week which is– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yup. Nine days away. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Which is great. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: From um yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. From well from today. And then I guess when this podcast airs it’ll be nine days? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: No, it’s nine days from when we air. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Oh oh my bad. Okay. So yes. Sorry everybody. Christmas presently is nine days away. [laughing] Anyway um, my bad. So yeah, Christmas is next week. I’m actually kind of excited about Chris– I mean, I’m always excited about Christmas. Um. I was reading this article this morning about like, you know, we have um Ask Dr. Imani, like people uh asking questions and wanting advice. And so this woman had written in how her husband had budgeted $100 for presents for everybody. And she wrote in and was like, oh, my God. Like, that’s so cheap of him. And I was like, on the real that’s kind of how much I budgeted for Christmas presents, cause I’m making presents. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. Mmm.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I’m making presents. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Um. With stuff from my yard. So uh I was like, I was like, why are you why are you like, why are you tripping off your husband? Like like let like, leave him alone with his little hundred dollars, okay? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah, I don’t think it cause I, to be honest with you. I don’t think it’s the amount that people care about. It’s it’s the thought. Like, how much thought did you put into it? What if you give people $100 scarves? They okay. Thank you for this scarf. But what if you give them $100 worth of, like, uh you know, a special portrait picture, you know, collage that you put together specifically for them? Like that means so much more. So to be honest, it’s really not about the money. It’s about the actual gift itself. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. I was like, you better leave your husband alone like I’m like. I was like, Please. I was like, yes, all my my gifts for everyone, like everybody are going to cost like about $100. Um. And that’s–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t even know I don’t know what my, girl look, I was I gave some people pajamas, matching pajamas like, look, I didn’t really care about– [laughing] 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right, right, right– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I was just like– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Y’all getting matching pajamas, y’all getting this. My kids. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Maybe you’ll gifts. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t know. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. I mean, actually, I kind of felt like that woman was kind of overstepping her boundaries. I was like, you kind of a habitual line stepper when it comes to trying to tell people how much they should spend they should spend. So I was like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: That’s kind of wack. And it’s so interesting that I mentioned boundaries because today’s deep dive is all about boundaries. And for everybody who’s listeners of this show, it’s no secret that I love my boundaries so much, and I felt that everyone should give the gift of boundaries this holiday season. So that being said, we’re going to jump into current events, so I’m going to let you go first as far as current events, um– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Because mine mine is kind of interesting. I came across it this morning, um but–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –what have you come across over the past week in terms of current events? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Just a few different things. Uh. Meg Thee Stallion’s shooting trial has begun uh. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Girl yes.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: With Tory Lanez as the defendant, which is an interesting story because you just think like, okay, obviously she got shot. And to me it seems like, okay, there was only two other people who could have shot her in that car, which was her best friend. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Kylie and like, even though they apparently had like a fight, highly unlikely, her best friend shot her. And then Tory Lanez. Who yeah, probably shot her. So, like, I don’t understand why we’re even having a trial like let’s be honest– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I thought he admitted–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –he shot her.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –to shooting her already. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: He said the truth will come out. He keeps saying that, and it just was like, well, what’s the point? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Did you shoot her in the– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I mean you keep saying it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –feet or not? [laugh] Like you shot her in the foot. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You shot her bro. Like– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right? What truth, right? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t know why this is. I don’t know why this is so controversial unless he really didn’t shoot her. But to me, it’s like you shot her. She got shot. Okay. She got shot. We know that. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So, like, somebody shot her. It’s pretty. I’m pretty sure it’s you. Her best– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –friend didn’t get charged with it. It’s you, Tory, like you did it. Just like I don’t even. You should’ve just been like, yeah, you right. I did it. Let me go ahead and say I did it. And you’ll give me whatever the consequences are. Like, that’s– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I mean. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You shot her man. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: He a ho. He a ho and and– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right like why are you shooting women. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: A.) Well, you know what? Like, no disrespect to any men that are like, you know short but like he mad tiny. He’s super tiny.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: [laughing] I know you was going to say that. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You knew I was. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I knew you were going to talk about this short man– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like ugh– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –syndrome. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like you all tiny and you and you not cute. And your songs is garbage. So, like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Well, apparently– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You know. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Wait hold on, though. Even though he’s not cute, Meg must have saw something in him because they allegedly dated. So there’s some stuff– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Girl. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –coming out. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: [?] ugh. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: During the trial but I was like, Oh, come on, Meg. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I thought, I hope that means like an ecstasy–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I mean we all made our mistakes.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I know but I hope it was like a ecstasy induced. Not that I’m saying Meg thee stallion. I have no I have no evidence that she’s done any type of drugs. But I hope that it was some sort of substance induced lapse in judgment because her boyfriend– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: [laugh] I hope she was high. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –now is cute. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Like [laughing] 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You know her boyfriend now is cute but, you know– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Her boyfriend’s cute. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: We’ve all made some mistakes. So that could have been her little mistake.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Please. Girl, I have so many. They’re not even little mistakes. I have, like, gigantor size mistakes. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: See? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: See? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And I didn’t get– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: We’ve all been there. We got–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Listen. I didn’t get shot in the foot. I did not get shot I didn’t get on the foot but also, I’m kind of wary. Like when I was dating, I was I was really wary of men that were really short because like so I’m five nine. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And when when I would be like out sometimes I would see like [laugh] I would see like these dudes like, you know, that like on the low, not even on the low, but like they would shop in the juniors department, which I’m not, I’m not putting down because like juniors clothes are cheaper than like adult clothes. And sometimes I will buy like juniors clothes. Like I’m not even like, you know, like I’m not depending on where [?] depending upon where my weight is at the moment. Right. So I was so I’m not dissing that, but like, like on a couple of occasions I remember being out and like I would see this, you know, like you feel somebody like eyes on you. And so I would turn, it would be like this really tiny dude, just like staring at me in, like, a really weird way, like, lustfully, but, like, more so, like, oooh, I can’t wait. Like, I really want to climb her. Like, I was like a palm tree, and I was just like, Ooh, I need to, like, I need to blend in with the crowd cause I’m like, I’m not I’m not about that life. Like, this is weird. Like, you making me feel wild uncomfortable. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Tall people problems. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, I’m– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Tall people–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Listen. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –problems. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Listen, I’m just like, I don’t know, like, whatever you looking for, it’s not me. It’s not me. But I mean–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Wait Imani, you’re five nine? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, I’m five nine. But I wear heels– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: What? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –a lot. I wear like platforms a lot. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s why. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Because every time I see you, I’ll be feeling like you six feet plus and I and I’m–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –five seven. So it’s not like I’m that short. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: But I didn’t realize there was only two inches different– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: It’s two, it’s only two inches. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –in real life. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I never like get like last night I had to, um, I was doing something like I think I had to like go to the bathroom and pee real quick and I didn’t have my shoes on. And I have, I’ll usually wear like these um, these Croc platforms because they’re really comfortable. So, so I went in the bathroom. When I looked in the mirror, I was like, damn, like half my body disappeared because I was I was like my true height. [laughter] And I was like, this is so strange. Because usually, I me and my boyfriend are like the same height or I’m like a little taller, but I forgot that, like, I’m actually much shorter than he is, so. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Wow. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So. Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But yeah. But yeah. Usually when I’m like even even in the house, like I usually have on my platforms. So yeah, I’m it– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Short, short men. No disrespect. I have friends that are short who happen to be men. It’s just that I, you know, no matter your height, I really don’t like being stared at in a lascivious like creepy way like, you know. [laugh] It doesn’t it doesn’t really matter. I mean, I’ve been stared at– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: What’s what’s the–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –in creepy lascivious ways by tall men. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: True. Uh. I was going to tell you, what is the shortest guy you’ve ever dated? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: He was maybe like five six, five seven, maybe? Maybe. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Did you feel like you could beat him up? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: No, because he was kind of like thick, you know what I’m saying? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Not like. Like he was like he was kind of like. Yeah, he was solid. Um. But out– but like outside of that. And I used to say, like when I when I was in high school, when I um was living in New York, like I felt like so many people were tall. So when I went to college, I went to school um in New Orleans, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, why is everybody so short down here? Like, like my rule was if you were, like, leg– back then, like in high school, I was like, if you were under six two I like we’re it’s not happening. Um. And of course, you know, I have I’ve definitely um yeah, I used to date a guy. We were like exactly the same height for like a long time um and that was fine. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah I’ve done a few like same height, I think I dated one guy that was like five six. So he was like an inch shorter, but– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t usually wear heels, so it’s not too bad. I didn’t really notice the height difference. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I just can’t date anybody that I feel like I could beat up. So you could be taller [laughter] than me and like, super skinny, frail, no muscles. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah hell no. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I can’t date you because because I feel like, man, I can beat you, if somebody come, come, run up on us. Like–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I got to defend you. If I feel like that, we’re not going to work sir, you’re frail. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, but let me tell you. So there was this guy that I dated in college, and he was taller than me. And I remember we used to study at um Tulane’s library because my school, Xavier, which is a historically Black uh university like the library, was popping like it was like it was just pop– it was popping. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right, right, right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like I was like, I need to for real, like study. So we would go to Tulane and we left. So we left Tulane. And when we were leaving, there was this dude that ran up on us and he was dressed in like, all white. Like it was. It was really it was kind of like I was like. And it was dark. So I was like, okay. So he passed by us. He was like, hey, how you doing? We were like, hi, how are you? And then he doubled back and he was like, give me your money, right? And so he had this like, quote unquote “gun”, right? So and it might have, listen it might have been a real gun. I’m not suggesting anyone do this. I just, you know, have issues with things like that, obviously. But I was like, okay, I’m from New York. The dude I was dating at the time was from like Georgia. And so we’re in– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oh okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –New Orleans. So dude was like he was like, give me your money. And he and he was like, he’s like, give me your bag. And I had a Coach bag and I was like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Hmm. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: First of all. [laughter] 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Not a coach– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You got me fucked up. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Not a coach bag in college. What?

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like my, I was like, I was like do you know how much like I had to save up to buy this bag? I’m like, are you fucking crazy? So I looked at him and I was like, I was like, I ain’t giving you shit. I was like, you walking around on a white ass campus in, like, a white starter jacket, white jeans, white sneakers, a white like beanie. I was like, that gun ain’t real. And he was like, Oh. And then he turned to like, my boyfriend and was like, give me your money. And so he was like, Okay, okay. And so he took his money. And when it was over, I was like, dude, why did you give him anything? Like, obviously I called his bluff. And he was like, well, I just wanted him to leave us alone. I was like I ain’t never taking you nowhere. So–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oh that’s funny. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –even though he was taller than me. Even though he was taller than me, I was like you got no type of street smarts. I was like, uh uh. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s country versus city right there girl. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I probably would have done the same as him. I’m I’m– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I’m country girl. I would have been like uh–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like I ain’t giving you shit.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: [?] you know what you need you need that balance, though. Imani. I will say that. You do need a balance in a relationship like this. Somebody got to be a little more gangster than the other. Unfortunately it was you. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I guess that was me, [laughing] I guess that was me. I was like I legit– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Sorry. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I looked at him. I was like I ain’t giving you shit. He was like, oh, I was like, oh. [laughter] And I thought he would leave. And then my stupid, poor ex-boyfriend. He was like, now I’m out of $80. I was like, I don’t know why you even gave it to him stupid. So we didn’t last, obviously. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Because. We’re obviously not together. But I was like I was like, I could probably beat you up. I’m like you you–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: See you can’t [?]– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I was like yeah I don’t think this going to work. So. Yeah. So anyway, Tory Lanez. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So what you so what– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You’re short. [laughing]. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: End of story.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You’re short, and we know that you’re short and we know you shot Meg, Megan Thee Stallion in in the foot. So whatever. Um. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: The end. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Now, my current event. Now, let me tell you this this tripped me out because I was like, Oh, my God, I’ve been in this situation. So there is a girl. She is 17, um in Texas. In Lubbock, Texas. She’s Black. Her name is Autumn Roberson-Manahan, and she attends Slaton high school. There was a white boy in her class who kept dropping the N-word in class. Right. So she said that she asked the boy four days in a row to stop saying the N-word. And for four consecutive days, um this boy kept saying the N-word and ignored her pleas. So Autumn recalled that he said, oh, I’m balling on y’all niggas. While he was uh talking trash in the basketball court. And then when he was cleaning up at the end of class, he said, these dumb niggas left the ball out again. Right. And then on October 27th, he said it again, smirking after having dribbled past a student and hitting a jump shot. Now then, so Autumn, who was a straight-A student and had plans to be valedictorian of her class. Right. So important fact to note, she had been complaining about racial harassment involving three other classmates since the second week of school. Okay. So I guess the second week of school was probably like late August because it’s Texas, late August, like maybe early September. So long story short [a voice saying the word ‘how’ in the background] Ooop, sorry. Long story short, the racist comments didn’t stop. And she said that when he said it again, she snapped. She said, quote, “My mindset was this is the only way it’s going to stop. This is the only way he’s going to learn. So Autumn grabbed the boy by the hood of his sweatshirt and yelled at him between each open hand and slapped the top of his head. You’re going to learn to stop that fucking nigga shit.” Personal hero right? Okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So apparently apparently she at the end of it, at the end of this barely 30 second like outburst. Her high school, the high school, the administrator sentenced her to 45 days in an alternate school for students with severe disciplinary problems. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Wow. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Keep in mind, she was a straight-A student. She never had any type of disciplinary action against her. So now, despite despite hoping to be named valedictorian, she’s not even sure she’s going to graduate on time. So her parents have filed a civil lawsuit against the school. Now, this is why this was so important to me. I previously in a former life, lived in Texas and I previously in a former life in a former life beat up two people in Texas for calling me a nigga. And nobody like nobody like this was not about now, granted, I wasn’t in high school. I was much younger. I was unfortunately in second grade um and then in third grade when it happened. So I was pretty young, like six or seven, six, six and seven, um but I was like, this is crazy. I was like, Yeah, like when I when I beat those two kids up, I was like, first of all, I know I’m right. I know this is complete like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like I’m going to like it’s not even a matter of being absolved. Like, I didn’t do anything wrong. Like, these people walked– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –up to me, said some foul shit or in the first instance said something to like my um my play cousin and I was like, oh for real like, I don’t play that shit, beat his ass up. And then, you know. And I knew my mom would be like, my mother was like, please stop wasting my time. I’m at work. So I was like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Unless it’s she was like unless there’s anything else you need to tell me. Like, is my daughter, okay? They were like, yeah. She was like, All right, then bye, click. But it–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –it tripped me out because I was like, so this is what? Like, this is what we’re doing? Like, if there’s any time when a Black person has the full license to flip the fuck out, it’s when the word nigger is used, with the hard R. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. Yeah.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So, but obviously by somebody who is not Black. So I just thought that was um really unfortunate and I’m really glad that her parents are standing up for her because sometimes, unfortunately, you know, despite, you know, despite our parents best wishes, sometimes, you know, sometimes adults are like, well, you know, you are like, I’m just saying, I’ve heard similar situations where the parents were like, well, you’re onl– you know, you are a senior, you’re almost going to graduate. Like, let’s just try to, you know, like get past this. But like, something like that is way too– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Nah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, it’s it’s way too just unnecessary and deleterious and just it’s just it’s just terrible. Like I feel really bad for Autumn. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So um you know, I hope that this gets settled really quickly because for–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: For them, for her to go from being a straight-A student and hoping to be valedictorian to being put in an alternate um high school for kids with severe disciplinary problems, just screams, you know, like–. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, she’s Black. So, you know, she she went too far. And it was like she she been telling y’all but y’all didn’t do anything. So she had to take matters–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Into her own hands. So. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So now the school needs to get sued. Haha. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You know I there because because sometime people don’t under I this is one thing I’ve learned in this life is that people don’t understand until it costs them something. And that usually means cost them money. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Money. Right.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And it’s like this is because technically she could have claimed a hate crime. You can file. You can, the FBI has to investigate hate crimes. You know what I mean? So like, she could have taken the rap and said, okay, I’m just going to go the FBI route myself uh since the dude was cussing I mean, saying these things almost daily, like, let me just film him and then I can go ahead and give this to the FBI and like, you know, that’s a bad look, the kid, I’m sure, would be like I don’t you know, I don’t nobody wants the FBI showing up at their door, but like. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: No they don’t. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s one route. And then the other route is, you know what? You gonna F around and find out today. And that’s the route she chose. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But basically that’s what happened.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And I’m not and I’m not mad at her for doing that. If my daughter did that, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t be mad at her. I’d be like, Hey. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I guess we’ll just figure out a homeschool situation. We’ll figure out another situation you’re still going to get in college. Like we’ll figure it out. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: It means that, you know, you may have to go to a different school because you ain’t going to be, you know, a valedictorian. But it doesn’t matter. There’s a million colleges that you can go to, and I’m sure there are some that may give you a scholarship because of your heroic act. Okay. So I’m good with it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: A.) You got to do what you got to do. I’m not mad at her at all. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Because people need to learn– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And honestly, Autumn–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –You cannot. You can’t say that. You cannot say that. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: No, you can’t say that. And honestly, Autumn, I hope that you go to a, to a HBCU. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Mmm. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I really do, because– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: She will. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: She will that’s HBCU Energy right there. Okay.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So, I mean, big energy. Big energy. So I mean, I had I had I had so much fun um at Xavier and I’m really glad that I went, even though I was like, I want to go to school in the Northeast with all my other friends at like PWIs, a predominantly white institutions. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oo girl. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But, but yeah, no. I had, I had super fun. So I’m glad that my mom was like, Imani, please go to a Black school, please. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, I know you. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: HBCUs all the way. All the way.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Like you need to go to a Black school.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I. Actually I wish I would have went to one, but I knew I would not have I wouldn’t have done well because I would have been the partying girl, I probably would have flunked out the first semester and have got pregnant like everything. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Mm mm. [laughing]

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Like I’d a just been wilding out. Okay. So I had to go to a PWI. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Girl you stupid. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And then go party at the Black school down the street on the weekends. That’s the best I could do because I was like, Ooh, I ain’t gonna make it. I’m having entirely– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I can respect that. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –too much fun at a Black school. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I can respect that because I do remember people who got like, they, they got like a little too um they had a little too much fun uh–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: The first, like I want to say the first semester. So that being said, Autumn, we with you please go to a Black school, okay? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And um if you’re listening to this, like, let us know how everything works out. I will definitely be following this story because I really I really want to know what the what the outcome of this is. So Autumn, I’m definitely going to be following this story and I really am interested in the outcome. So if you’re listening to this, let us know the outcome. But if not, I’m setting like an alert in my news app so I can follow and see, you know, follow up with you and see what’s going on because, you know, what–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: What happened to you was incredibly egregious and really, really disgusting. So that being said, everybody who’s listening, if you are loving the show and I’m sure you are, please let us know by rating the show on your favorite podcast app. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes, this is going to be a good show. I can feel it. So let’s start the show. [music break]

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. So, everybody, it is time for Ask Dr. Imani Anything. We want to know, what’s on your mind? What are you struggling with? Because we love giving our professional and not so professional advice. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes, ma’am. It’s time for Ask Dr. Imani anything. Our first letter today comes from Brooklyn. Hey, Brooklyn. And here’s what she had to say. Hey, ladies. I am hooking up with my younger sister’s best guy friend. And the sex is good. Like, really good. My sister never wanted me to talk to him because she thought it would be weird if it went south. He keeps hinting that he could fall in love with me. Since he is younger than me. I don’t know if I want anything more than just sex from him. I’ve tried hinting we should keep it casual, but he isn’t taking any of the hints. I think this man is going to ask me to take this situationship and turn it into a relationship. I don’t want my sister to be mad at me, but I don’t want to date this little boy for real. I’m not ready to give up the good sex either. Is it wrong to date him just for the D? Should I be a good person and cut him off now since I know he is catching feelings? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, Brooklyn. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Woo what say you. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I know. Okay, Brooklyn. So um if you want to keep it messy, like yes, keep [laughter] keep using the word date in place of getting that D. Um. And, you know, you can keep it messy and you can basically like do how I did back in my, you know, twenties. And this is exactly what I did. It was like, oh, Imani you so. Girl, you so different. I’m like, yeah, that thank you so much. So like, you going to come over later or what? So [laughter] um yeah. And if you want to like keep it messy and if you want to like, you know, like really be on some shit where, you know, if you run into him in the street, you got to like cross to the other side of the street and all of that. Um. You could you could totally, you know, keep, you know, keep kind of stringing him along. Um. But if you really want to keep it honest, like if you’re since you’re really asking my opinion, you should like you should, you should break it off because even if and this is this is classic me or what used to be me, even if you’re like, Yo, I’m not feeling you like that. But I do like, you know, having sex with you. You know, I just want to know this as far as it can go. The person’s still going to say. He’s still going to say like, Oh, yeah, that’s cool. Because there’s still going– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –To be this hope that he has in his mind. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yup. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: That he’ll be able to, like, basically mesmerize you with the D, he trying to hypnotize you with the D to make you fall in love with him. But if your– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah.  

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –if it’s obvious that like you’re not going to fall in love with him, then you need to just dead it. Like dead it. Dead it. Because– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. This is like this was my entire life in my twenties and it’s really like, [laughter] yeah, like the messiness was unnecessary. I had so much shit going on in my twenties, like, I was in med school and I was in residency and I was doing all kinds of shit. Like if I would have just kept it honest and kept it simple, I wouldn’t have had to have had like just really uncomfortable conversations when I know shit should have been deaded earlier. Honestly, I just didn’t want to be like, alone in the cold because I was still living in the northeast. So, um you know, like those are my selfish reasons, but honestly, you should you should dead this like you should. You should– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Dead this, especially because you don’t feel the same way. So. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Agreed. And yeah and that’s the–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. So what do you say? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –that’s the thing about like, if, if it’s. Two people need to always have an understanding. And once somebody goes against that understanding, then you have to reassess is this for me? So apparently y’all started off with this is just some hit it and quit it situation we friends with benefits and keep it moving now that he’s starting to catch feelings. You know you’re going to have to say I’m sorry, sir, I got to let you go, because now the agreement is changing. And this is not what I wanted. This is not why I started this to begin with. So, yeah, girl sorry you just going to have to find another way to get yo your pleasures met. But it ain’t him. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm. Right.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And on top of that you said your sister would be mad at you. If you ain’t if you’re not trying to have that drama with your sister, then you might as well just let it go. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah. I forgot all about the sister. I forgot. Yeah, there’s a lot. I mean, and here’s the thing. Like your sister said, you shouldn’t talk to him because she thought it would be weird if things went south. So it’s about to go south and it’s about to be weird. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Um. But you have a chance to make it as less weird as possible. So I would dead it. And you know, like I said, if you want to be like messy, you know, be like me in the nineties, like, do you know what I’m saying? [laughter] Just be like, whatever. Like, it’ll be fine. I got this and like you don’t, girl, you don’t have this because it’s it’s too it’s too far gone, um at least in this way. Like, if you dead it now, he can move on and you can move on and sure. Like, you know, you may like see him in the street or wherever later and he still is going to have little like, you know, hearts in his eyes, but at least you won’t have that guilt, you know what I’m saying? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Or he might not. He might be like, whatever. I found the love of my life now. So um but yeah, just dead it. That’s that’s that’s I think that’s our consensus, basically. Like just dead it. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Let it go, girl. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah yeah yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: There’s other penises in the world. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Girl for real. So many. So many.  

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You’ll find another one. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You will find another one or ones if that’s your thing. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And our next letter comes from a listener by the name of Aisha. She says, Hey, Dr. Imani and Meg, I am the first lady of a megachurch in my city. I have developed a lot of stress from the pressures of having to feel like I have to be perfect for my congregation. I also have really bad social anxiety on Sundays now that we’re back in person services. I don’t want anyone to know I’m struggling with this anxiety every Sunday. I just wish I could go back to the old me before the pandemic when I didn’t have anxiety or worries. I’ve currently started lying, saying I was sick so I wouldn’t have to attend church on Sundays. I don’t want to lie anymore and want to start to feel better. How do I get control of my anxiety and face my congregation again? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, Aisha, first of all, thank you for this letter um because this sounds a lot like me. I know I say that a lot, but like this really does sound a lot like how I am right now. So, first of all, I’ve never been a first lady of anything, um and I certainly can’t imagine what it’s like to be first lady of a megachurch, because megachurches are like churches where it’s like a stadium full– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Of people like that’s that’s wild. That’s a that’s a lot of people. That would be too many people for me. Um. And I know you said that you you wish that you could just go back to the old you before the pandemic. But as I’m sure you know, just, you know, through what you’ve been going through and also just, you know, being somebody who’s gone through the pandemic, all of us are different. Like I was even talking I was I was talking to somebody, I think, like a couple of days ago about like, oh, my God. Like, remember when we used to, like, drink after each other and like, you know, like, go to birthday parties and blow, like, blow spit all over the place, like blow candles and then– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –eat the cake with, like, the spit on it.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah, never thought twice about it. Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. Didn’t even think twice about it. And now it’s like, oooh no, you know what? I’m good. Like, I don’t even if I’m–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Fan of cake. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah. Like, I don’t even know how I’m going to go. So it takes a– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Lot for me to leave my house now. Um. And I don’t think, you know, it sounds like it’s the same for you. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. But if you do have this expectation to be in person um with your church services and it’s and, you know, you identified that you have a lot of anxiety about it, I think you should really talk to somebody. Um. I think you should really talk to somebody–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –About it first. It could be your you know, your general doctor, like your general practitioner. Um. But I think that therapy would really be helpful for you. I think for a lot of us that have gone through the pandemic and are still going through the pandemic, um you know, like none of us ever, like we didn’t have a blueprint for this. Like, nobody’s ever gone through this before. Like, ever. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Ever. So, I mean, it’s kind of like, you know, when we were in school and we learned about the bubonic plague and it was like, oh, wow, that’s terrible. But there was no like we didn’t have any idea, like, what that was like, like a million people plus have died in this country because of COVID, um and we’re not going to be the same. You’re not going to be the same. I’m not the same. Meg’s not the same. None of us are the same. So that’s that’s to be expected. But if you really are trying to go back outside, you should talk to somebody at the very least. And then, you know, if you need additional help, like if you potentially need medication or something like that, then, you know, you can always, um you know, uh speak to someone else about that. But I think at the very least, just getting these feelings out is, is great. So I’m glad that you wrote in and that you wrote this letter and you put your words to quote unquote “paper”, let’s say. Um. But I think that it’s really important that you get these words of anxiety and these words of stress out of your body so that you can fully process them and just kind of see where you are after that. Um. And– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –And honestly, like, don’t, you know, don’t stress yourself, don’t beat yourself up too much. Like, it’s really okay. Because like, like I said, I really don’t leave my house unless I absolutely have to. And COVID is, you know, running through everything right now. So it’s, you know, like be a megachurch. That’s a lot of people. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: It is yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: That’s a lot of people and a lot of chances to get sick. So I get it. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And I want to and I and that’s one thing I would like to know, Aisha, that we don’t know is what is it in particular that you said you want to go back to the old you before the pandemic when I didn’t have anxieties or worries? Is it specifically like the whole aspect of getting sick, um you know, like, is that what’s giving you anxiety? What changed outside of that? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I would like to know um because I’m sure before then you had pressures of feeling like you had to be perfect for your congregation, right? Like–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah. For sure.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s and so so what changed now? Is it just the fact that you’re, like, at home and you don’t want to get sick? You’re, you know, maybe you’re a germaphobe, is that it? Um. I would want to know more there. But the one thing that I will say, because you are a woman of God, like the one thing that I have learned in church is that, you know, you go through things to help other people at the end of it. And so obviously, like in a church setting, there is a lot of pressure for not just the first lady, but everyone to to act like everything is okay. I don’t have any mental health issues. You know, God will take care of me. You know, there’s nothing wrong over here. I’ll just pray about it. Like that mentality, like we got to get away from that because there’s nothing wrong with Jesus and therapy. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Jesus and therapy. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: There’s nothing wrong with that. And in fact, I would say, like, God gives us gifts. You know, Imani is a psychiatrist. That is a gift. That is, go see her. You know what I’m saying? Like, you you– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You need to take– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: If you’re in California, if you’re in the state of California, if you’re not, then like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: If you are yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I can’t see you. Yeah, I can’t see you. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Sorry, sorry but yeah, but like, the whole point is God gives people these gifts because they’re supposed to help other people. So obviously you need help in this way. You have anxiety. There’s other people, I’m sure, in your megachurch of thousands of people. There’s other people who are suffering from the same exact thing. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: True. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So why not be that example and go, okay, you know what, I’m a step out here on faith and I’m a go ahead and tell you all this is what’s been going on with me, okay? I haven’t wanted to come here on Sundays. I’ve had a lot of anxiety. I feel like I got to be perfect. I got to look like all this stuff. I don’t feel right. But I’m going to I’m going to put this out here because I know there’s always healing in the truth. What’s the Bible say, the truth will set you free. Uh. Was that John 8:32. Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. So like be be truthful because then there’s freedom in that. You lose the anxiety, you lose all that. So go ahead and talk. Go find you a therapist, talk to the Lord, and be honest about your situation because I’m telling you there’s going to be so much support. Way more than you think. Um. There’s going to be much support. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So I’m praying for you girl. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I agree. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You got it Aisha. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I agree. I mean, and and you know. Well, first of all, I didn’t know that that was a Bible verse because– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: A.) I don’t know the Bible very well at all. Like at all. So I’m I’m a heathen. Um. But on top of that. On top–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Girl I [?] I knew it was something. I had to Google it myself girl okay. I was like I need to know– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: No girl, I’m like–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t know where. I’m a just google.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –who I’m like, you, please. If there was if there was a Jeopardy category about the Bible, I’d be like, I don’t know Alex. I don’t know, I don’t know. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Next. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Next, like I’m a just try the 200 one. And hope that it’s like, you know Je–, I hope who is Jesus, that’s that’s– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: There you go. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –what I hope it is. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: There you go.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But but the other thing, too, that Meg said I mean, it I think it would be really powerful if you were able to um you know, get up in front of your congregation and say, hey, I’m struggling with this, but also you don’t have to do that. Right. Like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah you don’t have to. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –That’s that’s based upon your own level of of comfort. Um. But, yeah, I think that, you know, what we’re both saying, what me and Meg are both saying is that you, you should talk to someone like the– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like the truth will set you free. This, like, stepping out in faith, will will help you. And if you need a reminder, my name means faith. Not that you needed a reminder because you are woman of faith. But. But, you know. But just like just you need to get you need to get these feelings out of you. And, um you know, even if it’s even if you are able to go to some sort of counseling, maybe it’s not your church, maybe it’s a different church. I know that like, you know, certain heads of churches um do offer that. If therapy is something that, you know, you’re a little bit like um, you have a little bit of trepidation about that. Um. But yeah, but but you need to you talk you need to talk this out. You need to talk to somebody. Um. So, you know, you can really see, like how how severe this the this these feelings are. And if it’s something that you can, you know, get through just with talk therapy or if you need a little bit more help. So Aisha, I hope that that was really helpful. Um. And also Brooklyn, that was, you know, like let us know if you took the messy route or the clean route. Um. You know, we’re really interested in like, you know, how how how you how you how you want to take things. Um. So thank you, Brooklyn and Aisha, for submitting your questions. I hope we were able to help you guys. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I just want to say I love how different these these letters were but like– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I know! I know.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: They couldn’t be more different. And that’s just that shows you who listens to our show, who watches I mean listens to our show, look, we cover everything. So if you have a–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: We cover everything. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –question or a problem, if you have a problem centered around your mental health and you want our help, please send your emails to askDrImani@Crooked.com. You can also text or leave us a voicemail at 818-252-9462. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, everybody, let’s switch gears because we’re going to take a quick break. And after the break, we’re going to take a deep dive into how to create healthy boundaries with your family and friends this holiday season. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Mmm. This show is for me huh. Because I need to set some boundaries. [laugh] Not only for the holiday season, but in the new year. So stay with us. [music break]. 

 

[AD BREAK]

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So I cannot hold in my excitement any longer for today’s deep dive. So it’s no secret to all you guys who are listening to the show how much I love boundaries. With the holidays in full swing, even the merriest of people know that the holidays can be emotionally, physically and psychologically taxing. Then you add in buying gifts, travel plans, and running from gathering to gathering. Let’s not forget to mention all the time we spend with our families and every family, no matter how loving, has its fair share of challenges. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Mmm hmm. And all these factors combined with holiday season stress, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone finds themselves feeling stuck or overwhelmed because I’m already there. So tell us, what’s our first step to setting holiday boundaries so we don’t burn out or spend the holidays feeling uncomfortable? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay, so I’ve been learning throughout the course of my life, but but more so as I’ve gotten a little bit older that not everyone is as familiar with setting boundaries or they don’t feel very comfortable setting boundaries. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –Me right here, hand raised. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. Okay. So first of all, I I know that I’m I’m a bit of an outlier. Um. I have always had a really healthy self-esteem. So I think maybe when I was younger, it probably bordered on people being like, damn she conceited. Like, I didn’t, I didn’t. I really am not conceited. I just really value like my space and my time and I really don’t like my time wasted. And it’s it’s that’s just something, that’s how I’ve always been ever since I was a kid. Um. So and that probably largely has to do with the fact that I was raised by adults, whether it was like my parents or my grandmother being in the house. So, you know, if you can imagine being socialized by somebody who’s like, you know, 30, 40 years older than you, um you know, a lot of it is going to be like, you know what, I don’t have time for that. So, you know, I was that was me at six. Like, I’d be like, you wasting my time. I don’t have time for this. Now. So so part of it part of part of being able to set a healthy boundary is putting yourself first. And I realize now that it’s, it’s hard for a lot of people to put themselves first because we’re taught and especially women are, especially Black women. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yup. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Are taught to always be strong. And when I say strong in quotations, strong or strength oftentimes is translated into doing things for other people and putting ourselves second. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But that really isn’t strength that’s actually cheating yourself. So I will readily say that when I was a kid, everybody in my family was like, Oh my God, Imani is so selfish. She is so selfish because I was like, I’m not doing that. So I don’t know what to tell you about like, like, I’m not doing that. I remember being in first grade and I was at an all Black school and it’s in Fort Worth, Texas. And so we, like everybody was Black, the teachers, principal, everybody was Black. And so I remember uh my teacher, Mrs. Richardson, she was like, okay, well, so-and-so is acting bad in the classroom, so everybody put your head down. Did I put my head down? No, I did not, because I was like, first of all, I didn’t do anything wrong. So I don’t like. I’m not a part of this. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Y’all can choose to do what you want to do. I did nothing wrong and she didn’t even trip. She was like, Imani, I already know how you are. And I was like, you you know exactly how I am. I didn’t do shit. [laughter] I was here doing my work, quiet, minding my own business. So I’m not putting my head down like, fuck that. So what I’m saying is you have to like I’ve always been I’ve always been that person. My family’s always been like, Oh, my God, here come Imani. Like, she she gonna do her own thing. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And a lot of times, quote unquote, “doing my own thing” has meant that I s– I set boundaries like like, oh, Imani, we need- 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: The one thing I hate is we like, don’t ever start a sentence around me talking about we need for you to. Stop. [laughter] First of all. No, you can ask me. You can ask me and you can say please at the end of it. But don’t tell. Do not tell me what I need to do. I will determine what I’m going to do. So that’s that’s number one. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I love it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Number two is putting yourself first is very important because I I read like I read a lot of advice columns because I just think they’re interesting. And I read these advice columns and there are people really saying like, well, I don’t want to let this person down. I don’t want to, you know, make this person feel bad. And I get that. But at the same time, it’s like the thing is, is that you have to you have to do right by yourself first. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And then everything else flows from that. And again, I’m realizing this is something that not everybody’s been able to master. And it literally just takes practice. It’s just it’s practice. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, it’s kind of like how, you know, there’s that, you know, saying like, no is a complete sentence. It really is like. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, Imani, can you do this for me? No, I can’t. And yeah sometimes I’m like, no, sorry. I can’t. Just to like kind of smooth it out, but, like, but, like, legit. I’m like, no, no. And– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oooh yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –people will be like oh, well you know, like, oh, you know, like, why not? Now, don’t ask me why not? Because then I will tell you. But but but really, it’s like, well, I can’t do that. And honestly, you’d be surprised. Really, most people will not say why not? Maybe your boss might. But like on the real, like even then it’s like– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah most people are just going to accept it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –you might be my superior, but, like, that’s none of your fucking business as to why I can’t. Um. But but on top of that. Well, on top of that really. It’s like, no. And you’ll be surprised–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –By how many people are like oh okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. And you know what?

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Then and you know, they move on. Yeah.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I’m learning that, like, because I always. Because to be honest with you, that’s a trauma response. When people ask you to do something, you know, you don’t want to do it, but you don’t want to let them down. So you’re like, okay. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s a trauma response, number one. Number two is if you finally have gotten to the place where you’re like, okay, I don’t want to do that, for whatever reason, I’m going to say no. And so you just go ahead and say no because you know, I have to blah blah. Like, you feel the need to explain that’s still a trauma response. It’s a little better. You healing a little bit, but you still, you know. So I’m learning. I think I’m in the phase of like learning, like Megan you don’t have to explain yourself to people. I was I was writing an email the other day and um somebody was asking for something or I think it was a meeting and I legit didn’t want to meet at any of the times they listed because I’ve got kids, you know, I just didn’t want to do it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So I start out responding and I’m like, No, I’m not going to be able to meet at that time because blah blah and I looked I said– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Don’t put because. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Delete delete delete. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Don’t put because. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Delete, delete, delete. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I was like let me just end it right there. I will not be able to meet at those times, period. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Period. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Do you have any other times available? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And I was like, you know what? That’s and it felt like freeing to me because again, I felt like I was letting them down. Mind you, this is a colleague. They don’t care if I can’t meet at those days. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: They’ll just give me another day. So why did I feel the need to like why did I feel like I was letting them down? Like, oh, no, like, I don’t like inconveniencing people. And, you know, I’ve had to learn in therapy, like where that comes from for me and for me, like it’s cultural for me, you know, growing up with my mom, my, my parents, my mom is Korean. So in Korean culture, like, women don’t put themselves first at all. Like it goes your family, your husband, your kids, your job, you know, your neighbors, your grandkids. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Your pets. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Whoever. You’re you’re– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And then you. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –you ain’t even on the list, right? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You not on the list at all. So it’s like I got that from my mother and I always took it as, you know, she’s a very selfless person and I love her for that. But I think for me it crossed over into anxiety because I’m selfless but then now it’s to the point where like, I need therapy because I’ve I’ve now betrayed myself, you know. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I think there’s a very thin line. And you’ve got to be very clear with yourself, when does the betrayal to me start and when does the selflessness end? Where is that line? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I didn’t know what it was. I never had that line, to be honest with you. But after having kids, being in a relationship, going through the pandemic. Oh. Yes, like I said earlier, I had to f around and find out that I needed to to have some [laughing] boundaries in my life because I was [?] I was like, yo, I’m I’m not going to make it okay. I’m going to die. Like, this is how bad I feel. I need to set boundaries in my life and I will tell you, I am much happier and much better since I have done that. And it’s still a struggle, you know, it’s new. It’s still new for me. But no, I’m not going to do that. Like– [laughing] 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I’m I’m pulling an Imani. I’m not no, thank you. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I won’t do that. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Well good. Yeah. No, I’m saying like I’m rubbing off on you. Like, I like this is like, honestly, this is why I wanted to do this podcast. I want everybody like, you know what? When somebody’s like yo, can you um, you know, are you able to– think of me. Think of me. Be selfish, be be selfish towards be selfish– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –with yourself. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And be like, you know, what would Imani do? Like Imani is going to say no. Like lit– you know, you guys do not understand how many times during the day I say no. I’m like, yeah no. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Or like, I don’t know. So no. Like legit and and one, like, one thing that I’ve learned within the past few years is that um especially when I was when I was working, when I was on a reality show, they would like everything is everything is very like everything is very important. It’s like we need to meet at this time, in this time. Now, keep in mind, I gave them I gave the producers, the production crew a schedule like this is my schedule for–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like the next three months. Right. And they would be like, well, can you meet at this time? I’m like, okay, see where it says I’m blocked out. Now, the first year I would say– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, oh, I’m seeing patients. The second year it was just like X, like it don’t matter what I’m doing, I’m not free. So they’d be like, can you meet during, can you please during meet meet during this time? And I was like, well, first I would be like, No, I can’t. And you know that. But then my mother, who was my manager at the time, because she has a long history in entertainment, she was like, okay, here’s what you do. You say No. But then like like like for example, with you, with Meg, you said, well, these people, you know, want to like meet with you during these certain times, and you can’t do it. So I would be like, I can’t do it at this time, but I can do it at this time. And it’s always good to be able to offer people like an alternative and have– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And and make sure the alternative benefits you. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like don’t be like, oh well you know, I’m busy until three so I can meet you at three when you know, you can’t. Just be like–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –I can meet you at 3:30 or I can meet you at four. Like, like create the the bound–, like make the boundaries that you need so that your life is less stressful. Like, don’t– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –try to, you know, fit everything in because then, like Meg said, that that pushes you into the area where you’re betraying yourself and you’re betraying your time and your– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like, wellness, you know, and that’s that’s really important. So it’s the holidays, right? So like, everybody’s like, oh my God, we got to get together and this, that and da da da da. Now I’ll give you guys an example. So my boyfriend, he um, we, we have, we have this event that we’re going to go to um at one his siblings house and this is Christmas Eve, right? So he was like, so at first he was like, oh, well, you know, like, okay, so, so I was like, are we going to go? Like like, you know, what are we doing? And he was like, okay, well, let me, let me think about it. And then he like it took him a couple of days and then he was like, wait a second, if I see my whole family on Christmas Eve, this means I don’t really have to see anybody on Christmas. And I was like, Exactly. I’m like, let’s just go to this thing so we can just knock it all out and then it’s done. We give everybody they gifts and then Christmas day we get to veg out. I get to watch Law and Order SVU like I’ve been doing for the past like month because of like, like I haven’t seen these shows, but like, you know, I just love, I love solving crimes um on TV um with Stabler and uh and and Benson. Um. But, but but that being said, like, sometimes listen, sometimes you even may need like to take a take a beat, take a beat, even if you get the email. And and it’s like like I used to be the type of person who, like, I’d get an email and I would instantly reply, I don’t do that anymore for a couple of reasons. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Same. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: One is sometimes when I’ll get an email and it’s like, Oh my God, like this is an emergent situation. Somebody else in the thread will be like, Well, actually we checked this and it’s okay. And then I don’t even have to say anything. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Other times I can take a beat because I just need a chance to think about it. And I’ve learned that sometimes when I take that time to just kind of let things like settle, that sometimes things seem to kind of like take care of themselves on their own. Or I’m able to come up with a, with like a good response or a good plan. It’s, it’s that, it’s that need to respond to everything. Like right then and there. That, like Meg said, is a trauma response. Like, I want to get this out of the way, when in fact it may not be best for you to deal with it right then and there. Like sometimes you really need a second just to let things like, you know, like settle a bit. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Just like, okay, you know what, we are all aware of this. There’s going to be other things that come up within the next few hours. Let’s just let this, you know, marinate and then we’ll come back to it. And then sometimes, you know, like I said, sometimes you realize it’s not as emergent or important as it was initially posed to you. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. Okay. Wait I have to ask you about this so, so okay now that it’s the holidays, people, you know, your family is used to a certain dynamic. So what happens when somebody’s listening to this show and they’re like, you know what, I do need to set some boundaries with my family. Let’s say, you know, I go to my mom’s house and they talk about, you know, my father who is no longer around. And it makes me feel a kind of way like, so then I’m going to decide to say something and they say something. And now the family does not react kindly to you setting these new boundaries. What do you do then? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Well, I’m a big fan of getting up and leaving. And I don’t mean leave. I don’t mean be like, well, fuck this, I’m out. Like, I’m not I don’t mean making it a production, but like, you know. I’m a I’m a big like I’m a big fan of, I mean, legit. I will leave a place on the low like I like to. I like to surreptitiously leave an event and just be like, you know what, I’ll be right back. And then I’m like gone. But when it comes to family gatherings, I’m a big fan of just getting up and going to the next room or getting up and going to the bathroom where I can, like, just breathe by myself for like, you know, a few minutes and just be like, okay, now we’re done. Or if you’re going to be at a family gathering, you don’t necessarily even like you don’t have to be a part of that conversation. You can get up and leave and go talk to somebody else if you want to. You can get up and leave and go play play with the dog. You can get up and leave and–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –go like have a, you know, make yourself something to drink. Or like go eat something. You don’t necessarily have to feel confined to that situation. Another thing is sometimes I like to kind of foresee what like I like to think about like, okay, like what? Like what are some things that have happened in the past that have gotten on my nerves and then bring it up to the person specifically before the gathering, which is another way of of setting boundaries. Right. It’s like, hey, just wanted to talk to you briefly about the fact that, you know, this is something that bothers me. And if it’s something that you want to discuss, that’s fine. If you could just do that with these people and not with me. I’d really appreciate that. And people are really– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Receptive to that because when you know it sometimes is not just the boundary itself, but it’s how you set the boundary. Like, you know. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: As Black folks, it’s like, you know, like, like I need your tone to be right. And sometimes, like, if you can pre if you can preempt, like, the whole discussion that, you know, will probably take place and bother you, like people like you, like you can say, like, you know, I really don’t like it when, you know, you talk about my dad or whatever. Like it really makes me uncomfortable. That person may be like, well, you know, I don’t even know why you [unclear] and then and then, you know, it’s like, well, I mean, I hear you, but that’s, you know, that’s just how I feel. And then they know. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And then they can, you know, they can either keep talking about it or you can be like, okay, well, I just want to let you know that. But in any case, I will see you at the event and then you know what I mean. You don’t have to. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I’m not saying and again, I’m not saying to think about every single scenario, because that is a that can be a bit anxiety provoking and inducing. But just think about like, okay, what are the things that I know are going to set me off and just try to do your best to avoid those? Right. Like, because sometimes– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Like, like I was saying, like sometimes letting things marinate, sometimes you don’t necessarily have to be involved with everything. Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And you’d be surprised by what you don’t like, the things that you choose to not give your energy towards. It doesn’t mean that you’re a weak person, but it means that you are putting yourself first. And that actually is– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –A strength response and not a trauma response. So, yeah, I mean, that’s that’s what I would do. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You know, your family. So, you know, like, you know, which people are not going to react kindly. So I think a little bit of role play like, okay, should Uncle Junebug say X, Y, Z, and that’s triggering to me. I will then do blah blah blah as a result. So I think just having a game plan in the event it’s like, Oh, I can’t get away, you know, I can’t get around it and I don’t want to be around it. So if that happens, this is what I’ll do. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: To keep my peace and my sanity. I think just having that, you know, having a little role play in your head is also helpful. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Oh, yeah, no, I actually. So it’s funny you said that because I had um so my boyfriend had gotten into it with one of his siblings like a few months ago. And so I knew Thanksgiving was coming up. This was obviously last month. And so I was like, hey, do you want to like, you know, discuss, like, you know, a safe word in case, you know, things start to go left? And he was like and, you know, he was prideful and he was like, ah it’s going to be fine. I’m fine. And I was like, okay, it was going to be fine. It’s going to be fine. So it was fine. But I will say, and this is kind of outside of our discussion, but I will say that I was able to engage the offending parties from from like a few months ago that like had kind of caused the whole like fracas. So that I kind of like I kind of like stepped in and was like, hey, so what’s going on and da da da da da and I kept them occupied so that I knew they would like, I could kind of be like, oh, are you, are you trying to start some shit? Well let me just. Hey, what’s this? Wow, that’s great. [laughter] So, you know, sometimes even when it comes to family gatherings, it may be helpful. Sometimes to even like bring somebody like bring a friend because your family may not be as willing to act a whole God damn fool in front of company. [laughter] Like legit.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: True that is true.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Legit like that is– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –now if it’s my family they will. But– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like I said, I’m really I’m really big on being like, you know, I forgot something in the car. I’ll be right back and going home. You could do that too. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I’m out. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, you do could that too. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right that’s true. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You always make up something like, oh, I started to feel a little sick. So I decided just to go home. But you know, it was really nice seeing you guys and whatever. Like they going to say what they going to say. The main thing is that setting boundaries, enables you to be able to take care of yourself. And– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –there is no holiday, there is no event in life that is worth you putting yourself second. Legit. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Exactly. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I mean unless it’s like a funeral. Like, don’t flip out at a funeral, okay? Like don’t do that. Don’t flip out at a funeral. Don’t flip out at somebody’s wedding. But everything else just, you know, smooth sailing. Just try. Just maintain. Like if somebody is getting on your nerves, you know? You know what? You know what I okay, I will freely admit. You know what I did um Thanksgiving week? I got some I got some um magic mushrooms and I ate like a little bit and I ate some that Sunday because I was like, okay, you know what, in four days it’s going to be Thanksgiving. And I just want to be like, hey, everybody. Hi, what’s going on? Oh, my God, you get on my nerves. But guess what? Not today. You know why? Because I microdosed and I don’t care. So–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I am higher than a kite, I am flying over here and– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah no I wasn’t, I wasn’t even–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –nothing you can say is gonna–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah no, I wasn’t even high. I was just like, I feel great. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oh good. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Like you– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I can’t stand you. But today I don’t care about you. You know why? Because I’m putting myself first and I put myself first, and now we’re fine. And guess what? I’m leaving. It was so good to see you. I don’t care about you. I’m leaving. Goodbye. So it was so and and legit the funny thing is that I saw my dad a couple of days ago and he did the same thing. Like, we didn’t know, like but but he did the same thing. [laughing] He did the same thing. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Oh, that’s so funny. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: So I was, I was dying laughing, but but yeah, like, put yourself first. Like, take, take the easy road. Doesn’t mean be a pushover. Put yourself first. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: And that really to me is a true meaning of like strength, because you’re not acting out of fear and you’re not acting out of like anger. You’re just like oh okay, wow, great. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I love it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. You think–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I love it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Hitler’s cool? Well, all right, then. See you later. And then. And then you’re done. You’re done. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right, right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You’re done. So in any case, that’s that’s how I deal with, you know, that that’s that’s how I create boundaries for myself. Um. It looked differently when I was younger because I was a little bit, you know, I wasn’t I wasn’t able to really, like, be as nuanced. I was and it and it more so looked like I was angry because I was, I was irritated. But now I’m just like, oh, okay. That’s cool. Wow how interesting. I’ll be right back. And then I’m out. Yeah, I’m gone. Or or I moved on– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I love it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –to another conversation I want to have. So. So, yeah, I just. I just want for all you guys listening, just to understand that there are, you know, boundaries are not bad. You’re not letting anyone down. You need to put yourself first. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: There’s different ways to set boundaries. Just always be clear and be concise. And if the person keeps like asking, like the person is still like, well I don’t understand just be like, well, you know what? I did my best to explain this to you. And really, that’s kind of as best as I can say it. Like, that’s kind of all I have to say about it. Um. You know, that’s it. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I want to say one last thing. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: People will only push you as far as you let them. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And so if you’re saying like, oh, you know, I’m expected to bring this dish every single year, but it’s hard to make and I don’t want to do it this year. Well, guess what? We not having this dish this year. And if somebody–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –is mad about that, you’re welcome to write upper management, whoever [laugh] that may be in your life. But because because what are they gonna do? They gonna be mad like, they’ll get over it. Nobody’s going to, I remember you didn’t bring mac and cheese, christmas 2022. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: You’re right. Well you make it.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: And we didn’t have mac and cheese like– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: You didn’t have it that year. Or somebody else can make it. Like, what’s your point? People will get over it.

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah you make it. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: So–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah it’s not even that hard. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –just keep that in mind. People. People will only push you as far as you let them. And–. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –they’re not going to they really won’t be mad when you set boundaries. They’re just going to be mad that they can no longer push you around the way you let them in the past. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Exactly. I be like, you better go to Chick-Fil-A with all that. Go get you some macaroni and cheese over there. Please.

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: They mac and cheese is actually really good too so. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Is it? Do they have the little–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: It is! 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Breadcrumbs on it? Because I’m like, why are we putting breadcrumbs on macaroni and cheese? Or is it– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I don’t think it has– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Just like creamy? Okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: It’s like a creamy, but it it does taste like they have some old Black grandmas back there making it. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I’m not gonna lie. It was– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay Chick-fil-A. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I was I was pleasantly surprised. I was like, what! This is really good. That’s not like–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Not like Popeyes Mac and cheese. Blegh. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Ugh. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: [indistinct] 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Well, they Chick-fil-A– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: There is– 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Gotta do something because they French fries are so sad. Ugh. Not even with that Polynesian sauce can they do anything with it anyway. Anyway, to stay back to stay on topic. That was a really good discussion. I hope I hope that– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: It was. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I hope that was really helpful for everybody. So so that’s all the time we have for our deep dive conversation today. And I hope that all of you are able to get some boundaries this holiday season. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes, I know. I do. Thank you for that girl. So let’s move forward to our favorite segment, Pop Culture Diagnosis. [music break]

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Okay. Let’s get right into our pop culture diagnosis for this week. Shout out to our listeners Zuri, Barbara and Michelle for writing in with today’s Pop Culture Diagnosis request. All three ladies asked us to do another diagnosis on the show Abbott Elementary. Except this time they want us to diagnose the quirky teacher and main character, Janine. Meg, can you please give our listeners a really quick synopsis of the ABC show Abbott Elementary? Before we get into Janine’s diagnosis? 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes, I love this show. We talked about it before, but now we’re going to talk about the main character, the show’s creator, the fantastic, wonderful, beautiful Black Queen, Quinta Brunson. She plays Janine on the show um at Abbott Elementary. It’s a fictional predominantly Black school in Philadelphia. And, you know, she I like how this show kind of does, like um what is it? It’s kind of like a reality. It looks like a reality show, basically. Right. Like, you know, it’s for its first person. They’re talking to the camera sometimes, then you see the action happening um and like you kind of see what happens at the school and some of these problems. If you’ve ever gone to a like an underfunded public school, you can relate to some of the problems that are going on at Abbott Elementary. Um. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yes. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: But she’s a really cool character and I like I just I like Quinta Brunson in general. I have followed her since she was on, she used to be on BuzzFeed, and I think that’s kind of where she got her–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: –her recognition from. She used to uh you know create different segments and be talent on BuzzFeed and then she just went on her way. She blew up and she was like, I got this and now she got a whole ABC show. Okay? 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: I mean, she got a whole ABC show and– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Whole ABC show. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Shout out to Quinta and they’re on their second season and it’s, she–. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yup. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Won an Emmy even though– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yup. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Um what’s his name? Uh. Jimmy Kimmel tried to, like, upstage her. It was fine. I mean, please talk about setting a boundary. She was like, okay, well, I’m a just give my um my congratulation my congratulatory speech, and I’m a just ignore you because you out here looking like a whole God damn fool. But in any case, Janine so Janine Teagues is a teacher on Abbott Elementary, the fictional Abbott Elementary in Philly. Um. So the one thing about Janine is I really kind of had to, you know, take a deep dive, if you will, not to beat a dead horse. But I really had to take a deep dive into into uh Janine’s character because she’s you know, I was like, well, what is there to diagnose? Like, she’s super sweet. She just really like she works hard. She wants the best for her students. But there were a couple of things that I did notice with Janine that um kind of led me to a diagnosis. So one of the things that I remember specifically uh that Janine um a scene that that kind of led me to a diagnosis was there was a scene where Janine was upset because uh the teachers are able to be rated like uh one of the other characters said, oh, there’s a yelp for teachers. So Janine was really happy because she was like, oh, you know, like these you know, I have really good I have really good scores from from the parents. And I really pride myself on, you know, the fact that I have great uh great recommendations from parents and I’ve great scores. And you know people love me and I’m, you know, the best second grade teacher at the school. And– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –One person one person said, oh, like, I mean, really, it was, it was. It was. I mean, when it comes to reviews, they’re subjective, right? This– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Particular person, this fictional parent, uh had said um that Janine, as a second grade teacher didn’t have uh the same experience as another more experienced second grade teacher. Now, by– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Virtue of the fact that Janine is younger and has been teaching for fewer years than the other second grade teacher who is just, you know, she’s just older than Janine. Um. I was like, well, you know. Like, I get it. Like, it’s, it’s really not a dis. It’s it’s factual. But also, I mean, did the did this fictional parent have to give Janine like a C? No, but I mean, it’s a review. Like, who cares? Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: But Janine was like, oh, my God, this is going to bring my my my overall score down, and I’m so irritated and I’m so upset. And when taken in when I took that particular scene, in the grand scheme of like what I know about Janine as a character. I was like, You know what? I think Janine may have a little bit of anxiety. I think she may– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –Have a little bit of anxiety. I certainly have I certainly have experienced something similar um when it came to like they’re different there are different uh websites where people can leave reviews um about doctors. And a lot of times they’re really subjective. Like if you ever see a doctor that has like, you know, like all, you know, five star reviews, I’m not going to say that’s bad, but in most cases, they’re they’re going to kind of fall, you know, on the lower end. Like, I didn’t like this. I don’t like the doctor’s face. I don’t like how the doctor talked to me. I don’t like this. I don’t like that. Um. I actually remember that there were people leaving reviews for me who I’d never seen, but they were like, I don’t like Doctor Imani on the show. And so they gave me like poor reviews. I went in later and was like, you know this, I’ve never this person is not a patient and people just do dumb shit like that. But because I have anxiety, I would like I completely understood where Janine was coming from. So there was another scene where Janine kind of freaked out because she saw her um she saw her colleagues, like while she was standing in line at the club. And that I can I can understand as well. But at the same time, it’s like, well, I mean, please, like, we’re we’re grown ups, we’re adults. If we’re all at the same club that happens to be hot at the moment like that that’s okay. That makes sense. Um. But but I think that Janine tries to do her best because she does love her students, but also because she wants to do her best. Because when you have anxiety, that’s one of the ways that you try to mitigate your anxiety. You try to you know, you try to, like, overextend yourself. You try to um, you know, make sure that, like outwardly you appear great because your self-worth like when I saw Janine kind of– 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: That’s right yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: –get upset about that, about the um the bad um, the bad, uh I guess, review, it became evident that it was obvious to me that Janine was really basing those reviews like she felt those reviews were indicative of her self-worth, which they’re not. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Right. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: At all. So I think, Janine, I think, you know, yeah, I think Janine has a bit of anxiety, um which, you know, is understandable. I mean, she works in an underfunded, you know, elementary school in Philly. Like, I feel like you kind of should be a little bit anxious–. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: To have to deal with that. So. So, yeah, that’s that’s my diagnosis. Yeah. I don’t know, you know, I don’t know if–

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Um. I was–

 

Dr. Imani Walker: If there’s anything else, but yeah, I think she has anxiety. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: I think she has anxiety. I also not that it’s a diagnosis, but she needs to listen to this episode about boundaries as well, because I feel like Janine isn’t the best with them, especially like, you know with her boyfriend, like he had her car. Like she just didn’t have good boundaries. And I think that it’s tied to what you were saying about, like, self-worth, like, kind of is reflective of what she thinks about herself. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah. No, I’m glad you brought that up, because it’s true. She like when you’re when you have anxiety like that, you kind of you go through all these motions in order to avoid really having to deal with the true problem, which is for her, that she may not have a great sense of of herself. She may not have a grace, a great sense of her own self-worth. And so she’s basing it on, like, how do other people feel about me? Which goes back to, like you said. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Our conversation on boundaries. So. So, yeah, I think Janine has anxiety. So–. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Get you some boundaries, girl. Listen to this episode. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Yeah, girl, I hope fictional Janine, that you get some fictional therapy. That’d be great. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Right. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yes. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: At the very least. So. So. Yeah, that’s what I think she has. So that being said, that’s it for pop culture diagnosis. We’re going to have another fun character to analyze next week. So if you guys have suggestions for any fictional characters out there, you want me to diagnose? Hit me up on Twitter at @doctor_Imani, hit Meg up on Instagram at @MegScoop and email the show at askDrImani@Crooked.com. And again, if you are enjoying the show, don’t forget to rate and review the show on your favorite podcast apps. Thank you as always for listening to Imani State of Mind. Thank you to Meg for co-hosting. And we’ll be back next week for an all new episode. 

 

Meg Scoop Thomas: Yay! Bye. 

 

Dr. Imani Walker: Bye. [music break] This is a Crooked Media production. Our executive producer is Sandy Girard. Our producer is Lesley Martin. Music from Vasilis Fotopoulos, edited by Evan Sutton and special thanks to Brandon Williams, Gabi Leverette, Mellani Johnson, and Matt DeGroot for promotional support.