Ira and Louis dive into season 2 of The White Lotus and its intense finale, the return of the Golden Globes, SZA’s new album, and Darren Aronofsky’s The Whale. Plus, Wednesday breakout Hunter Doohan joins to discuss the new series and working w Bryan Cranston on Your Honor.

TRANSCRIPT

Ira Madison III [AD]

 

Ira Madison III And we’re back with an all new episode of Keep It. I’m Ira Madison III.

 

Louis Virtel And I’m Louis Virtel and guess what number one on Billboard?

 

Ira Madison III Blu Cantrell “Hit Em Up Style”, just like it was on 911.

 

Louis Virtel It really should be. I would love if we could make that a holiday classic. But no, even though we are all at Neiman Marcus on a shopping spree at the moment, the answer is Mariah Carey “All I Want for Christmas is You”. It’s my new favorite holiday tradition. Seeing just the same four songs go up the charts and watch like Burl Ives take down Drake and 21 Savage.

 

Ira Madison III I am actually fascinated that this is the one aspect of capitalism that we are all fully on board with. Just running up Mariah’s numbers for this song as if she hasn’t made enough money off of it.

 

Louis Virtel No. And also that she has this blitz every year where, you know, she had this video where she was on some sort of peloton like bike and she’s dressed as a witch. And then November 1st came along or December 1st came along and she was in her traditional, you know, sexy Mrs. Claus outfit, all of a sudden. It’s like we we love it every single year, even though it’s like we just clocked out of the last Mariah Christmas phenomenon, like, two months ago.

 

Ira Madison III And she always manages to make, you know, like a moment out of it. You know, she’s got she’s the tick tock trend, you know, doing the like it’s time.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Like she always has a good moment with it. So I’m like, as long as she’s going to keep being funny. Why not?

 

Louis Virtel Right. And that is a crucial part of what she brings, you know, is that kind of kind of an old fashioned, almost Mae West humor to whatever she does. And I hope she doesn’t lose that any time soon because who has that? I mean, like Keke Palmer sort of has an old fashioned Hollywood humor about her, but it’s sort of a trade altogether.

 

Ira Madison III You know who else appears in the holiday season and you never hear from this man any other time of year.

 

Louis Virtel Who?

 

Ira Madison III Michael Bublé.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah.

 

Ira Madison III No, I mean, like.

 

Ira Madison III Basically the King of Christmas. But, like, do you ever think about this man until Christmastime comes around, and then he’s on the charts and performing everywhere.

 

Louis Virtel And by the way, once upon a time, you would have said that was Josh Groban, basically. But I feel like the Josh Groban star has diminished a little bit, or at least the omnipresence of Josh Groban has diminished a little bit. Whereas if I walk into a toy store or whatever Starbucks like, I am way more likely to hear Michael Bublé now.

 

Ira Madison III Hmm. Well, you know of David’s Foster’s kids, I guess, Michael Bublé is the one who’s risen up more than Josh Groban. Although, Josh Groban has been on my mind because I have tickets to see him already and Sweeney Todd on Broadway, so.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, that’s right. Because he kind of moved to Broadway and he was in the The War and Peace Musical, whatever that was called. Natasha Pierre. Bling bling. Bling, yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. It was a vibe.

 

Louis Virtel Tall men? We like them. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I’m like excited for him and Sweeney Todd, although I now have to move my Broadway tickets for that night because it’s the same night SZA announced her tour today. And The New York show is the same night as my Sweeney Todd tickets. So

 

Louis Virtel Have we talked about that album? I

 

Ira Madison III Well it just dropped.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, I’ve listened to it myself. Yes. I guess it’s just not really for me, but people love it.

 

Ira Madison III It’s weird because I feel like you listen to you love listening to women talk about depressing subjects.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. No, I literally one of my favorite albums is called Mental Illness by Aimee Mann. Yes. Yes. Guess what she talks about?

 

Ira Madison III The movie Clueless.

 

Louis Virtel And who would you say is mentally ill in Clueless?

 

Ira Madison III I think we know.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, really? I’m going with. I’m going with Breckin Meyer. Something about that attitude is all wrong in that movie. You’re not my friend.

 

Ira Madison III You giving a Stacey Dash a pass?

 

Louis Virtel The real life Stacey Dash. Sorry. Diagnosing her would be, shall we say, above my pay grade.

 

Ira Madison III I really love this album. I think it’s fantastic. But I will say it’s also not for me.

 

Louis Virtel See, this is what I mean.

 

Ira Madison III I am very into this album. I have a lot more to say, but I’m going to save that for my Keep It.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, interesting. All right. I didn’t. I didn’t mean to give it away just yet.

 

Ira Madison III No, that’s okay. We like to tease segments on this show.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. We’re like Gypsy Rose Lee. One veil comes off at a time. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III So this week is going to be a big episode for the White Lotus Heads who listen to us.

 

Louis Virtel And that means all gay men who after this finale all went to Twitter and needed to each individually tell us why Meghann Fahy was great on the show. Each one of them was like, Only I understood what she did. Meanwhile, it’s just an evidently good performance. I don’t need to be explained. Fagots.

 

Ira Madison III It was the representation of that tweet that someone sent out once where they were like, Gay men can’t ever just say they like the song.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Right. It’s like their whole universe and like, yeah, no, they have to write like a listicle, and it has to be a listicle.

 

Ira Madison III It’s like Meghann Fahy stepped on set and dragged her pussy all over that beach.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it has to. It has to be so fanatical. It’s gross.  Yes. That’s how we make ourselves known.

 

Ira Madison III Reinact It.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right. Did the job. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I am excited to talk about White Lotus because we’ve sort of not talked about it throughout its run. But now I think it’s time for us to finally get into it. And at this point, you know, like if you haven’t seen White Lotus, it’s probably been ruined for you anyway because I have not seen a show in forever, really, that just sort of has taken over the zeitgeist in the sense that everyone is talking about it, recapping and sharing names from it. The minute an episode gets, you know, even like Game of Thrones, people at least gave, you know, like the pretense of sort of like we don’t want to spoil things unless, you know, there’s some big like massacre or something. But we’re going to get into the popularity of this season of White Lotus and how much we liked it versus season one. And then also the Golden Globes are rattling back over to us.

 

Louis Virtel The rickety curiosity shop that is the Golden Globes has turned on their Christmas lights once more.

 

Ira Madison III We were thinking about what the other topic was going to be this week. I truly feel like I was like sitting on the couch, scrolling through my phone and I was like, Wait, they’re Golden Globe nominations today. I truly forgot that it came back and that they were happening this week.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, it’s one of these things where there’s no like the celebrities who are nominated aren’t giving statements about it, which once upon a time would have been you know, variety would have been chock a block with every single nominee talking about where they were when they heard, etc.. But now it’s like it almost feels vaguely insulting to get nominated for a Golden Globe. So you have no reaction. I can’t tell who’s going to show up to the ceremony, which is televised. So it’s a very strange moment.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So we’re going to chat about the White Lotus. We get to chat about the Golden Globes. And then also we are joined by Hunter Doohan, the fantastic breakout star from Wednesday. On Netflix, which is, of course, about Wednesday Addams. Another addition to the Wednesday Addams canon and Christina Ricci even makes an appearance in the series, too, giving it sort of passing the baton, as it were.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, two things. One, in talking about this show, people, of course, reference Addams Family values all the time, the 1993 movie where Joan Cusack has a breakout performance. I feel like on this generation, it is people don’t understand that that is a sequel that the 91 Addams Family also exists because people don’t remember a lot about that movie in comparison to that one. And in fact, a lot of the big gags in the 93 one are pulled from the first one. Like Wednesday’s main antagonist in at the summer camp is a Girl Scout in the 91 version. So I just want to remind people a lot of funny stuff in the 91 version, if they haven’t seen it, and also the original Wednesday Addams on television, Carol and Joan’s so fabulous and gives an awesome Oscar nominated performance in a movie called The Bachelor Party from the Fifties, written by Paddy Chayefsky. It’s like a two minute performance. Look it up on YouTube. You will love her.

 

Ira Madison III I. I really love the original Addams Family. And it’s so and so interesting too, that you brought that up because I really do not think about it often.

 

Louis Virtel No. Right.

 

Ira Madison III And because like you also, the plot of the first one is like Christopher Lloyd is Uncle Fester, like trying to scam them.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. And also like there’s a character connected to him this time it’s his pseudo mother figure. It’s not his new wife or whatever, but it’s the same vibe. Like she’s conniving in the same way.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. And then, meanwhile, then there’s a new scammer in Addams Family Values.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And the less said about Addams Family Reunion. Doesn’t matter.

 

Louis Virtel Who is Morticia on that one?

 

Ira Madison III Daryl Hannah is Morticia. Tim Curry is Gomez. And then there’s a bunch of Who?

 

Louis Virtel But Tim Curry would flop. You just hate to hear it.

 

Ira Madison III Estelle Harris and Ed Begley Jr are also in it.

 

Louis Virtel God fucking love Estelle Harris. Wonderful story. More of a.

 

Ira Madison III Yes as she passed this year too. I mean, I feel like a lot of our listeners will remember her from Seinfeld.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Of course.

 

Ira Madison III It takes the skill of a really good actress to sort of I feel like to take George Costanza’s mother, who’s basically just sort of there to like screech a lot and make her, like, so funny and layered. But Estelle Harris was just a great actress.

 

Louis Virtel Speaking of Seinfeld, I’ve a lot of people have been unearthing Jennifer Coolidge’s role on that show, which I believe is one of her first credits or something.

 

Ira Madison III She’s Jerry’s massage therapist.

 

Louis Virtel Correct. Yes, it’s her. It is literally Jennifer Coolidge, his first TV credits. So look that up when you get the chance.

 

Ira Madison III She looks very different.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, she she she hasn’t, shall we say, blossomed into the Jennifer Coolidge.

 

Ira Madison III But she’s giving.

 

Louis Virtel We know and love.

 

Ira Madison III She’s all that.

 

Ira Madison III Yes, right there. She’s not yet the blond bombshell that we were introduced to in Legally Blond.

 

Louis Virtel Yes, of course. Of course.

 

Ira Madison III But we’ve got a lot to say about Jennifer Coolidge and the gays. So we will be right back with more. Keep It.

 

<AD>.

 

Ira Madison III The holiday season is upon us. The greatest gift of all has been the John Wick audition, and that is Jennifer Coolidge in the White Lotus finale. So what do we think will become of these poor, rich people who were our favorites and doesn’t match up against season one?

 

Louis Virtel Well, first of all, I just want to say I did not anticipate that every single second of the finale would feel thrilling. I was watching it. I had my hands on my cheeks because there were even times when, like, for instance, when Will Sharpe and Theo James are fighting in the water? I knew that that was a red herring. I knew that somebody wasn’t going to die there and that wasn’t going to be the body in the first episode that we were trying to solve. The murder about.

 

Ira Madison III But still. Yeah, but I felt like.

 

Louis Virtel They kept the suspense going. Like literally everyone, everything fell into place. And also, as far as I was concerned, everybody was wrong about who died. So and on this show, I think maybe a couple of people guessed that like the nefarious old gay guy who was, you know, bewitching Jennifer Coolidge was going to die. But that’s sort of a minor part of the finale. No one really suspected that she was going to die, I don’t think.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And what’s weird is there have been so many theories that came out after everyone was like, well, it was obvious that she was going to die, but shut the fuck up. There wasn’t a prevailing sense that she was going to die. But I do love that the story manages to fit that she would you know, I feel like it’s that very much, you know, like tragic, you know, heroine was set up, you know, from the beginning. You know, I think if you go back and look, I went back and looked at the premiere and you can sort of now see the telegraphing of like she’s dying, you know? So I think it’s a good send off for her character, to be honest, who deserves a little karmic retribution for what she did in the first season.

 

Louis Virtel And you’re talking about what she did to Natasha Rothwell, who I have, I have the distinct feeling is coming back.

 

Ira Madison III I hope so. I mean, what’s so exciting is that she came back in season two and I think someone would come back in season two, you know, because a bit of a continuation. And allegedly Connie Britton was supposed to be back in season two as well, but her schedule didn’t allow it. So that was nice to see this extended universe. I’m hoping that in season three we see someone else again and we continue the story. I mean, I don’t need to see. Daphne and Harbor. And then again, I know that everyone is going psycho for making baby and I’m going. I loved her in it, but I want her to do something that right now I don’t like. I don’t think that those characters need to come back. But I will say that Mike White surprised me because when season two started of the White Lotus, I was sort of exhausted by Tonya’s story.

 

Louis Virtel No. And there were even moments in her story well before it was revealed she would be hanging out with this weird coterie of gay guys where I thought, Oh, this has expired. We don’t even need to see this anymore. The other storylines are giving so much more sexual intrigue and weird, you know, creepiness, whatever. And then her storyline turned out to be the creepiest of all. I have a question, though. So the gay guy who I guess was masterminding her, being murdered, if he was in fact, plotting to murder her, why was he so fucking nefarious with her the entire time? And rather obviously, like he literally says to her, I’d die for a beauty, wouldn’t you? It’s like, bitch, you are you fucking Vincent Price? What. And you’re going to kill her? Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Listen, I feel like the gayest scheme did not make sense.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And which is why I also. But I also feel like I. The reason I love cinema and, you know, it’s always in storytelling is sort of like sometimes loose ends can be fun and just sort of like add to the air the mystery. I actually feel like I prefer like all of this not being wrapped up and starting season three and like we’re just like completely gone from Tonya’s story then sort of like Greg reappearing and us finding out like if he really was scheming with these gays to do stuff, you know, like I feel like answering it too much would sort of ruin it. And like, I think Mike White knows that like, you know, he is he came from the world of soap opera where, one, threads get dropped all the time. So I just sort of move on from it. And I feel like David Lynch does that, too, because he’s also, you know, a fan of soap operas. You know, that’s it’s sort of like that’s why I feel like the Lynchian storytelling, the sort of like things appear and then they sort of don’t make sense of that and don’t get answered just because people are used to drop threads and things. I feel like weirdly my favorite creators are sort of like that. Him, Lynch and whatever. Todd Haynes Anyway.

 

Louis Virtel I love that he um wrote and specific ambiguity in that we don’t know whether Meghann Fahy and Will Sharpe. Sorry that I actually don’t know the characters names, but these are what I’ve retained that we don’t really know if they have an affair or if they hook up after. Will Sharpe tells Meghann Fahy he believes that their significant others have hooked up or something occurred and then they disappear off to an island and we don’t see what happens. That to me is awesome. I think that is a very rare thing to occur in a TV show where it’s just written like, Well, what do you think happened? And then what’s more important is what occurs afterwards, which is, okay, now, Will Sharpe and Aubrey Plaza have a more contented relationship. And then I guess Meghann Fahy and Theo James go on with their sort of arrangement. I will say I feel like one reason the gay men in particular on Twitter are obsessed with Meghann Fahy is that the arrangement in that relationship feels like gay men.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, well, I feel like, you know, watching this, you know, I think so many gay men, like, obsessed with this sort of trouble and then it’s like white being gay himself, obviously, like had to have done this, you know, like that. But in that you get to with all the couples is like, how much does that mirror so many of our friends who are married or get over relationships or whatever? And I feel like, you know, that was the four of them sorting out what works for them.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III Like, you know, Aubrey Plaza, you know, she got that. She and her man got to the end. That works for them and they’re better off for it. You know.

 

Louis Virtel Almost everybody on the show is better off than what they came in with. I think the thing that is really intrinsic about this show is almost everybody in the cast there are people for whom everything usually works out, like life is safe for them, and now they’re going to a place where it’s allegedly even safer. So there’s an expectation that perfect lives are somehow about to improve. And the fact that they realize that, like, you can’t relax and perfection, that things are still going always is, I think, a very human and cool thing. I love that they explore on this show. I just can’t get over how successful it all was. Like even down to I think what you were talking about before with like people immediately spoiling it on Twitter and Instagram because he made the finale. So what happens to Jennifer Coolidge? Tonya particularly so memorable. You could hardly not put it online, you know what I mean? Like, the way she falls off that boat by was like a Mr. Bill’s sketch.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, listen, I already mentioned, you know, like the his affinity for soap operas, which, you know, is, you know, which I which is all I’m always going to bring up Pasadena on Fox and be sad that that fucking  show was canceled. Dana Delaney was doing the damn thing. And we deserve.

 

Louis Virtel Always does.

 

Ira Madison III We deserve for the 13 episodes of it. But, you know, I feel like he is so good at distilling the pop culture that he enjoys and putting it into his work, which is what, you know, I think I’ve always admired the artists I love because I would say that Mike White won the soap opera. So storytelling works in the way that it lures you in episode to episode because, you know, there’s there’s seven episodes of this. It starts out big and then it ends big. But, you know, the middle is sort of people hashing out their problems with each other, having the same arguments, which is sort of like what you get on back in December or something. People watch this. There’s this whole idea that, you know, sometimes people would be like, oh, nothing happened on this week of White Lotus, you know? But I’m like, everything happened to the characters right now. Like, there’s so much happening and not just those. He got so much from reality TV because I don’t know if you read that interview where he talked about in season one and season two, like the dramatic moments of words like cutting to the beach or cutting to these masks and like those big white heads, like the porcelain one that finally broke in the finale, he said he totally just cribbed that from Survivor. Whenever there’s a tense moment on the show, like they cut to the ocean, they cut to like snakes, like crawling through the mud or something, or they cut to like the tribal masks and things. I think it’s awesome that he just took that from his favorite show and put it into his show and it created the same sort of tension.

 

Louis Virtel Totally. I mean, in a way, what he’s doing is being a gay version of someone like a Tarantino, who every every time he does anything, it’s an homage of some sort, you know what I mean? He’s like pulling references sometimes the original actors, you know. But you can see that sometimes he’s downright remaking other movies. But, you know, he’s obsessed with whatever westerns or blaxploitation movies or whatever, and then, you know, sort of rejiggering them and reinvigorating them for a new audience. And here it feels like you really can see, you know, even just in his appreciation for actresses, period, like the way he’s like, it has to be Jennifer Coolidge or we’re not doing this all together, you know, and and giving us something we wouldn’t necessarily expect from these people. It really feels like a gay Tarantino in that way or something. I know. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, because. Because we’re better at those references. Right. And I mean, there’s even that there’s people didn’t talk that much about it after the one week but like the the scene where and it added to the foreboding to like Aubrey Plaza when she goes into the city with Meghann Fahy and those men surrounds her.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Right.

 

Ira Madison III And then they just all vanish. And that was the shot by shot scene from the sixties Italian film Love and Tour, which is a great reference if you get it. If not, you’re watching it for the majority of the audience, you’re watching it. And this weird, creepy, foreboding scene happens and then it just disappears.

 

Louis Virtel Right. And it’s very it’s cohesive. And that’s also, I think, the benefit of doing a show where it’s it’s all character driven and it’s not super. I don’t want to say plot obsessed, but the way people say, Oh, nothing happened in this episode. Meaning there weren’t plot jumps that, you know, moved us from one place to another, necessarily inserting scenes like that really move you. Mad Men was good at that too.

 

Ira Madison III I was just literally about to bring up Mad Men because that show week to week was character driven. Not a lot would happen. But what Matthew Weiner always understood though, too, is like you have the one big part.In an episode, you know, it can be all characters and you know, someone like getting run over by a lawnmower or, you know, or like someone gets shot, you know, or something like that will help people remember, you know, that overall episode, but you’re really just sort of digging into characters and stuff.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I really love this show. I really think it’s fantastic and I’m just really happy for Mike White having such a successful show like this. And I hope it brings back, you know, like. The adult television, you know, and I’m like, I’m not adult television, not in the sense of, you know, we need Breaking Bad and all these gritty, you know, like male antihero bangs and like shows like this which feel, you know, like the Desperate Housewives or something. Era. But, you know, like we’re finally getting those kind of shows prestige. You know, this is giving the same thing that Big Little Lies is giving. But you know it’s better than Big Little Lies.

 

Louis Virtel Not that I didn’t love that, but.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, I love that, too. But you know, better than Big Ligttle Lies season two.

 

Louis Virtel Certainly. Certainly, yes. You know, there’s a lot of sophisticated things going on in this show that I’m grateful everybody is obsessed with. It’s weird. The show like this, I feel like, you know, not that Mad Men was unpopular. Of course it was, but that everybody sort of rallies around. I want to also give a shout out to, like, not every role turned out to be ultimately that juicy. And yet I thought the actors themselves were great. I thought Michael Imperioli was great in a storyline. I was like, I don’t I don’t really need to keep watching this. Like, is there anything in this for me. F Murray Abraham, who, by the way, remains one of the best, best actor wins ever. Like, why are we sitting around shocked? Like, Oh, yeah, he’s really delivering right now. He and Judd Hirsch, by the way, occupy a very similar space in my mind. And they both give kind of similar performances this season. Judd Hirsch and The Fable Mines and of Murray Abraham on this show.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like it’s our fault that culture doesn’t talk about Out of Dance enough because I’m like, Do we talk Out of Dance enough on this show?

 

Louis Virtel It’s probably I think it’s our fault. Yes, I think it’s Ira and Louis’ fault. Yeah. And by the way, I will say, that I would see a Cynthia Nixon performance. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I will say. And maybe this also happened for you. Maybe it was like a midwestern thing. Do you remember like middle school going to Blockbuster and feeling like there were like 50 copies of Amadeus?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t know about that. I’m trying to think.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like. I feel like there was always Amadeus.

 

Louis Virtel The band teacher put on Amadeus for us and we watched it over a series of, what, 11 classes? Because, you know, it was the director’s cut or whatever too, which, by the way, is not as I don’t like the director’s cut as much as I like the normal size version of Amadeus.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I think we talked about the best films like last week with the Sight and Sound Less, but a film that I feel like has dropped off, that it’s sort of like public consciousness is Amadeus. I feel like people used to constantly talk about that film when we were younger, like only like ten or 15 years removed from my kids Academy Award wins.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I one of the few movies ever to have multiple best actor nominees and you know, Mutiny on the Bounty or Amadeus that don’t occur that often. The Dresser with Albert Finney and Tom Courtney it’s another one great mama.

 

Ira Madison III I was going to bring up just last week. Like, what do we think in terms of season one?

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yes. If I had to pick one, I would say two, because I thought the the sexual deviousness of this season was very well realized and added a fun, necessarily sexy dimension to the show. So I feel like with it brought everything the first season did plus that. So I have to say these two is my favorite.

 

Ira Madison III I would have to say like with the finale now two is my favorite just because yes, it added a bit more camp. It went full um, you know, it went full women’s picture.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III You know, think.

 

Louis Virtel George Cukor is in the house yes.

 

Ira Madison III George Cukor would be orgasming during that finale. Are you kidding me? Tennessee Williams would be like, wait, we can do that with, um, with leading ladies now?

 

Louis Virtel Cheryl Lee Paige, get on the phone. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like that’s just. I don’t know. It’s true. I was just watching the actors on actors between Patricia Arquette and Julia Roberts and like she was asking Julia about, like when she was the highest paid actress in Hollywood, like making 20 million, she was just like, well, you know, I’m just thinking about people, you know, like Carrie Fisher, like a Goldie are like women who’d come before me, you know, like Barbra Streisand. I don’t think she named Carrie Fisher. I’m giving her too much credit. I think she just said Barbra Streisand. But like people came before her and it’s like, you know, all this groundwork has been laid for Jennifer Coolidge to do all this amazing stuff. And it’s nice to see her in a show like this that I feel like has a better grasp of. Telling stories about older women and how gay men interact with them. It almost feels sort of like a direct response to how people treat the actresses in Ryan Murphy Productions. You know?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Online. Stanning these gays, stanning a woman to death. Yeah. That’s a literary stereotype. Yeah, sure. She took us to where? She took a swim in Mother Lake, and she drowned. Maybe, maybe some, maybe just maybem we don’t want our pop stars in Mother Lake.

 

Louis Virtel Right, no, particularly beginning to hit their head right before they hit the water. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III But yeah, I think the show’s fantastic and I’m glad that people are enjoying it and I can’t wait for the next season.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Also, one more thing I want to point out that bug me, even though the gay men had so much kind of contempt for her that they you know, they didn’t expect her to escape or get get them or whatever, would the hitman really just throw out his bag of weapons right in front of her and then walk away and then let her walk towards the bathroom right next to where the gun and tape and rope are?

 

Ira Madison III That’s my other thing, too, because I’m just right. You sort of have to like go with Meghan Fahy’s advice of, you know, have to know everything about someone to love them, because I know because it makes no sense and you just sort of got to ignore it because I’m like. But then why were they recording her having sex that, there’s clearly that red light last week we reported, and if the plot was to kill her, then why did they need to take her all the way back and dock her back by the White Lotus? You know, was it like, well, I have to give her this great weekend? You know, it was just sort of I was like, I can’t think about it, you know, because, like, was it just black male hair?

 

Louis Virtel Maybe these gay men aren’t that good at murdering, you know?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah

 

Louis Virtel You could sell us a show based just on that.

 

Ira Madison III I think it was murder based on the one DD like, deciding to, like, whichever one, like the the real like Italian Luca looking one to abandon. Remember, he stayed there. He was like, I’m not going to get on the boat. And then shout out to, shout out to the of a one gay who survived and jumped into the water.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Really lived because no one found his body.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. I also love the scene where she was up on the roof of the boat trying to get through to the one guy not in the at the dinner there. That was like an unexpected comic moment. That was really nice.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. So are you gay? Uh. Yeah. This really fun show.

 

Louis Virtel Also, what did you. What did you make of Haley Lu Richardson, a.k.a. Portia, saying that some of the clothes that she wore in the show, which have been much derided from Instagram, she admitted a lot of them came from her own closet. Haley Girl, sometimes you just it’s better left unsaid. Don’t let us know.

 

Ira Madison III That costume designer hit up Hayley and was  like, You better clear my name, bitch. This ain’t going on me. I’ll try to give punts.

 

Louis Virtel What she was wearing on this show was giving TJ Max version of what Carrie wears in Sex and the City, Two, when they go to the desert.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel You know.

 

Ira Madison III Also unfortunately, like, I’ll be turning out to be, like, kind of a loser, but I think he would make a good boyfriend.

 

Louis Virtel I ended up liking that character. I know you’re supposed to be like, oh, he’s, you know a cuff.

 

Ira Madison III Trying to say.

 

Louis Virtel Whatever the thing is.

 

Ira Madison III Worst version of male feminist. But like, I think I honestly, they seem like two idiots who are good for each other.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, right. Idiots have to end up with somebody. It can’t be a smart person. They’ll get sick of it.

 

Ira Madison III I will say that this season had a bit more hope. Like even though people’s lives got fucked up, people came out with, like, sort of like some happier resolutions on this trip that I would say the first season, which was a bit more grim.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Yes, definitely. I think that’s a part of what people like a little bit more. There is a little bit beam of optimism coming off this season.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Well, lastly, I guess this reminds me of like, I mean, we brought up Seinfeld already. Like you remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry is dating on the books, the lie detector, the polygraph person?

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And then he won’t admit that he rides Melrose Place, but then he starts, like, yelling about the storylines while he’s taking the polygraph. You like watching people like season one of this people in season two got so big and with so many like viewing parties, like for the finale, I truly feel like the season three of this show is going to be like a phenomena.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I hope so, too. And I was really heartened by what Mike White said in the featurette after the finale when he was talking about It’s going to deal with death. In a strange way. I feel like we’re gonna get into some mysticism, which I think is appropriate for the people on the show.

 

Ira Madison III And a take down, you know, sort of like the people obsessed with Lost in Translation, for instance.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right.

 

Ira Madison III White men obsessed with Asian culture. It’s your time. You’re on notice. Anyway, we love this show. And I don’t know. I want to talk to Mike White about it. We need to.

 

Louis Virtel Get on here.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, yeah. We need to talk about this show and Survivor.

 

Louis Virtel Of course.

 

Ira Madison III Which, as we’re wrapping this up, unfortunately, the finale is this week. What a flop season.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, is it? Yeah

 

Ira Madison III This is the season sucks. And last week was sort of like the first really interesting tribal and it’s like was the penultimate just a bunch of people who are just sort of like afraid to. It’s going to be Big Brother. They’re afraid to make moves.

 

Louis Virtel Mm. I feel like Survivor is the opposite of Big Brother in that every fifth season it’s bad. Whereas Big Brother, every fifth season, it’s good.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, Hunter Doohan joins us to talk about Wednesday.

 

[AD]

 

Louis Virtel Our guest today has been stealing scenes and also breaking the fuck out. He is the star of the show as Tyler on Netflix’ Wednesday. The latest addition to the Addams Family canon. You also probably know him from Your Honor with Bryan Cranston, but on Wednesday, he’s a bumbling barista with a sinister secret. Just like most bumbling baristas, I believe they’re all concealing something from us. And he gives one of the year’s most memorable performances on the show. Welcome to Keep It, my friend, who I sometimes just run into it at Ackbar Hunter Doohan. Welcome.

 

Hunter Doohan Thank you. Wow. That’s the best introduction. And I’m so excited to be here at this show. Helped me get through seven months in Romania.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, my God.

 

Louis Virtel Ira is that not the most bone chilling thing you could hear. Wow.

 

Ira Madison III Is that where you shot it, or are you just like you just love Eastern Europe?

 

Hunter Doohan I love Eastern Europe. It is my happy place. No, that’s that’s where we shot it randomly. Everyone’s like, oh, is it because the castles and like the look of it, I’m like, Yeah, they shot two days outside of a castle.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I got to say, I can’t think of a single other thing that’s ever been filmed in Romania where you blown away to realize you’d be off to Bucharest or wherever you shot this.

 

Hunter Doohan You know, yeah, we were staying in Bucharest and then, like, driving an hour to the BAFTA studios. Yeah, when I did the original audition, it said Canada. And then all of a sudden we were like doing the contract, said Bucharest, Romania. And we’re like, Whoa! But I was not in a position to change my mind.

 

Ira Madison III No, I just love when things get shot in random places. I think I remember when Regina Hall was on here with us and she was talking about the reboot of The Honeymooners, and she was like, Yeah, we shot that in Ireland.

 

Hunter Doohan Why?

 

Ira Madison III No reason.

 

Louis Virtel It’s an all black cast, by the way, up in Ireland. Yeah.

 

Hunter Doohan That’s amazing.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. So. I mean, like, before we get into the show, I’m unfortunately curious about this. Did did you discover anything of Romanian culture? Did you meet Romanian people? What happened there? I assumed you were just kind of stuck with your cast, given that it was a COVID situation.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. I mean, when we were there the first four months, Bucharest had like a 9 p.m. curfew because of COVID. So it wasn’t like a bustling nightlife, but it did like force us to get really close to the cast, which is nice. We were just like, Go to dinner at six and then go drink in someone’s hotel room.

 

Louis Virtel Kind of nice. A constant high school drama cast party going on.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. I was kind of splitting my time to, like, kind of playing because everything they shot at, Nevermore I was never involved in. So I was like, half the time hanging out with the teens and then the other half hanging out with, like, the guy who played my dad and the therapist and the mayor.

 

Ira Madison III One thing I really enjoy about the show, too. It’s just like we’re back in the Addams Family universe. Was the Addams Family something you were familiar with before you’ve done this?

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, I was familiar with the nineties movies.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. So to I mean, then to have Christina join our show felt like we got, you know, not the original Wednesday, but, like, my Wednesday stamp of approval on it.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, there’s so many Addams Family things, by the way, but I went to look back on this. I forgot there was like, there’s this weird off brand nineties Addams Family show that was shot in Canada. I think it aired like one season, but it was like 65 episodes. So that’s another thing that was on constantly. In our childhood, though, The Addams Family was always there and it’s nice to sort of have it back.

 

Hunter Doohan There was a 65 episode season of The Addams Family in the nineties.

 

Ira Madison III It aired on YTV. It aired from like 98 to 99. The cast is people you don’t know.

 

Louis Virtel I have some memory of Daryl Hannah playing Morticia at some point. Like, I think there’s like little like and there’s animated versions, etc.. Like, we secretly have Myriad Addams Family Variations.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, well, I’m excited this one’s back, and hopefully in, like, ten years, people aren’t like, then there’s this weird show they shot in Romania.

 

Louis Virtel The Romanian Addams Family. Yeah. Okay. Obviously, your dynamic with Jenna Ortega is an exciting part of the show. We have mostly gotten to know her, or I have, through The Last Scream movie.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Tell us about working with her as an actor. And did she get to discover the character of Wednesday alongside you?

 

Hunter Doohan I mean, I can’t claim any of her discovery. She is so phenomenal in this. Yeah, I met her here in Burbank. We went to coffee before we flew over to Romania. And I mean, I just can’t say enough nice things about her. She’s so cool. She was like 18 when we started shooting and just smarter and more talented than anyone. And. Like I always talk about, like her dance scene in episode four because there was a choreographer and she kind of kept avoiding her and then it kind of got to the day to shoot it. And then Jenna did her amazing dance that she choreographed herself. And in the script it was like when she starts to dance, Tyler joins her, everybody does the Wednesday. But I like I like looked at Tim for help, like, oh, my God, all I can do is stand here and gawk at her. And he’s like, No, no, no. I think people will relate to that.

 

Ira Madison III I found like the dance stuff was really fun because I feel like, first of all, the show sort of everywhere in the sense that before I even watched it, I felt like I’d seen most of the show, on Tik Tok. Which is great for a show now, but it’s just it’s weird to have that sensation. Is it weird to have that sensation of you’ve made a show and, you know, there’s the traditional way, I guess, like another show you’ve been on, like, Your Honor, where, you know, like people are watching that week to week, like, you know, they regularly consume TV. But this, I guess you find out people are consuming your show by people making memes and videos of you.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, it is really strange. And the fans like amazing. They got on it so quickly. And I mean, was it spoiled for you on Tik Tok, the ending?

 

Ira Madison III It wasn’t, actually. I mean, it was I mean, and even if it was, there’s so much going on in the show. I want to I mean, there’s so much going on that it’s sort of really hard to be super spoiled for it because there’s always something else happening.

 

Hunter Doohan That’s true. Like even my husband Fielder was like, You didn’t tell me about the Evil Pilgrim storyline. I was like, There was too much for me to try to explain before you watched it. But no, the fans are awesome, like on Tik Tok. They’re also like ruthless and hilarious. I just like, re-posted a bunch of funny ones, that of people making fun of me, like because everyone’s doing the Wednesday dance challenge. And then some girl was like, Did anybody see Tyler? And she just, like, stands there.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel I just want to. Now that you’ve brought him up, your husband is one of the few people I’ve probably known him like, maybe, like 12 years now or something. Like, he’s just like a nice a very nice L.A. gay guy. And he’s one of the few people who has ever, like, educated me about things I already thought I loved. Like, he’s somebody who would tell me something about, like, the prime of Miss Jean Brody, I didn’t know. Or I remember one time we were at some restaurant or something, and he pointed at a chair and he goes, Do you know what that’s a reference to? And I said, I no. And he goes, It’s the Montgomery Clift movie Red River. Anyway, I just want you to know that nobody ever tells me about these things. I usually know them myself. So I’m actually I remember my ego shrinking like I thought I was the Louis in this situation. But no Fielder was actually. Is he a big movie dork? Are you two?

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, he’s a kind of a big everything dork. He’s always reading and watching stuff and he’s so smart. Like we go to, like, trivia nights, and I just kind of sit there and smile and like watch him win the game for us.

 

Louis Virtel Where did you guys meet?

 

Hunter Doohan Tinder.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, chic.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, real chic.

 

Ira Madison III You know, there’s something fantastic about you being so young, married, a breakout star on a network show, and you met on Tinder. During the, was it during the pandemic then?Or pre-pandemic

 

Hunter Doohan No, we met. Yeah. We met in like 2015.

 

Ira Madison III Okay.

 

Hunter Doohan And then we got engaged during the pandemic. So the pandemic was great for me because I had been off shooting Your Honor for six months in New Orleans. So I like came back and all of a sudden we got to like spend time together again. And we had so many friends that either broke up or got married during the pandemic or had a baby.

 

Louis Virtel By the way, it occurs to me that Tim Burton is somebody that everybody is familiar with, and we have an esthetic that we associate with him, and that’s the same esthetic that Wednesday is. But I personally would not say I have a grasp on the Tim Burton personality. Like the piece of information that I store about him is that he and Helena Bonham Carter were together for all these years and then lived in separate houses, which I consider the most genius arrangement and progressive union that we’ve had to date. In a way, it upsets me that that’s still not going on. But what can you tell us about Tim Burton that I guess we don’t know? Because the fact is we don’t know much about him personally.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, I didn’t either. I was kind of like intimidated to meet him, especially, I mean, just because of who he is as a filmmaker and also just of his esthetic. I was like, What? What is this guy going to be like? But he’s so sweet. I have to like watch myself. In the first couple of interviews, I was like, he’s like normal. And then I realize like, that’s probably like his least favorite word of all time. But he’s now he’s awesome. He, like, never stops moving. He’s always walking around again. Good, good, good, good. Just do it again real quick. And he’s, like, real fun to work with too. Doesn’t like nit pick us, like, as actors in one night at dinner, we’re in this, like, Mexican restaurant in Romania. And he said he just chooses actors that he trusts and kind of just let’s let’s go from that point on, which I was just like, okay, I’m going to be filled with so much confidence for the rest of the season.

 

Ira Madison III Is there anything maybe from like his directing style or even just a conversation with them that just sort of struck you as like something you want to remember every time you go into a new project?

 

Hunter Doohan One day he came up to me and like kind of put his hand on my back and told me I was in good company in a long line of sensitive monsters.

 

Louis Virtel Wow.

 

Hunter Doohan Well, I will hold on to that forever.

 

Louis Virtel But what? That’s a shocking and lovely thing to say, I think.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. That’s my new Instagram bio sensitive monster.

 

Ira Madison III He’s talking about, you know, a lot of sensitive monsters like Christoph Waltz and Big Eyes.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, yeah. Wow. Wow. Which is a Tim Burton movie. Wow. I completely forgot it was.

 

Hunter Doohan I know. That’s a really random one.

 

Louis Virtel It’s like completely it sticks out in his filmography because most of the time, Tim Burton picks something, and you almost think, didn’t he do that before? Like, it’s so close to his preexisting esthetic.

 

Hunter Doohan That’s how I felt about Addams Family.

 

Louis Virtel You know? Yeah. Like when he did Alice in Wonderland, you’re like, this is the first time you’ve handled this. Are you sure?

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like I always remember big eyes, but that he did it because he has big eyes and he has big fish. So it’s just having a moment where he’s just like, big. And then I’m like, he also did The BFG, right?

 

Louis Virtel Did he?

 

Ira Madison III Or did someone else did The BFG?

 

Louis Virtel I don’t think he did. No.

 

Ira Madison III Hmm. Well, there we go. Tim Burton’s mystery.

 

Louis Virtel Okay, very well.

 

Hunter Doohan There’s so many movies he didn’t direct.

 

Louis Virtel Tell us about Bryan Cranston, who, as far as I interviewed him once at like I think TCA’s probably ten years ago, one of the most casually, extremely smart and seemingly caring people you can ever interview. And also, like just a great memory. Like he could go back in his career and revisit almost anything.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, his book is amazing. No, I love Bryan. He’s, like, the nicest guy in the world. He did get me killed off the first season of our show, but right now, he’s amazing. He. I mean, he officiated Fielder and I’s wedding. He is like the biggest sweetheart. And working with him was like a dream come true for me. I was such a fan of his and also just like, learned a lot like how to be on set like he will, he’s constantly joking around and then just like will immediately drop in. So there was kind of like no time to like be precious about it or like really get in the mood, which I’ve carried with me and like tried to do that on Wednesday too, because it’s just such a better way to like go about being on set with people for seven months is like, I mean, the crew doesn’t give a shit about your process. It’s like, you know, do your homework, go home and then come have like a good time on set.

 

Louis Virtel I’ve heard that about Meryl Streep, too, on the set of, I believe, Heartburn. Yeah, that’s the one where she’s in it with Catherine O’Hara. Catherine O’Hara said you’d be just talking with her about anything, like she’d be joking with you, and then someone would be like, okay, we’re ready to go. And then, like, you know, the Meryl would appear and.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Turn out whatever, you know, amazing scene she had to.

 

Hunter Doohan Bryan directed the finale of Your Honor. And like he was, you know, spoiler alert. But it’s been two years. He was like, cradling me, like after I’d been, like, shot. And he was like, okay, yeah. And just the camera’s going to come in here and spring around, and then you’re going to zoom in right on to me. Okay, action. And then he started crying. It was one of the most amazing things that we’re seeing.

 

Louis Virtel I love how that’s both professional and deranged. Like, what is wrong with him to make him do that?

 

Ira Madison III No, it’s interesting to think about him being tapped did so much because, you know, Bryan Cranston in Your Honor and Breaking Bad is such a different Bryan Cranston. You know, Louis and I grew up with him on Malcolm in the Middle. So like, what did you have any sense of his like other than like a joking around on set with him? Did you have a sense of like his comic sensibilities? You know, like what, what? Like sort of he finds funny and like, is he more interested in just sort of being like this serious actor now?

 

Hunter Doohan No. I mean, he doesn’t take himself seriously at all. I mean, is he takes, like the work seriously and I may get into trouble for that.

 

Ira Madison III He is not listening.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Hunter Doohan That’s hilarious. No. Yeah. No, I didn’t know. I didn’t really know Malcolm in the Middle, I kind of only knew him as Breaking Bad Bryan Cranston. And then before there like final like network test, I tried to like learn as much about him as possible and try to consume everything. And I read his book and then they flew us out to New York. He was doing Network on Broadway at the time, and so I saw the day before the test, which was a huge mistake because then I was like, you know, quite literally looking up to the man. And then the next morning I had to go act with him and for, like, the biggest opportunity I’d ever had. But yeah, it worked out.

 

Louis Virtel I also want to go back to Wednesday for a second.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Your, I guess fame has skyrocketed over the series of like two and a half weeks or something. It feels like before this show aired, you must have been bracing yourself, knowing that when something lands on Netflix, it’s in every sector of the universe and probably other universes at this point. I’m looking at just like the amount of responses you’re getting, just like on your Instagram alone. I mean, are you prepared for this level of just people shouting at you?

 

Hunter Doohan No. I was not. Like I mean, because we knew like we’d have the Netflix effect. But people kept saying that to me, like when Your Honor would happen, happens. They were like, you know, you know, your life’s about to change. And then it really didn’t that much day to day. And then so I didn’t really believe them this time around. And then also it was so much more popular than we expected the show to be. But it’s been really strange to like get recognized. I mean, basically everywhere we go now and like. And then, yeah. On Instagram and stuff, it’s, it’s crazy. I mean, the weirdest part is like. Getting used to stuff, being taken out of context, like doing like interviews. And I’m like, I mentioned that my high school girlfriend Grace had given me a box like a DVD of Will and Grace for like a present. And then I was like that, like, you know, discovering gay culture. And then the headlines that come out are like, Will and Grace turn 100 and gay.

 

Louis Virtel Chemically, that’s what occurs. You lay eyes on Sean Hayes and then you become him. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III I want to talk a bit, too, just about your character, you know, not to spoil too much, but your character in Wednesday and then, you know, your character in Your Honor too. I mean, like that series movie starts with you get out the hit and run, but it becomes so intense. What sort of draws you to these intense characters or is it just something that sort of happened by happenstance? Was this a kind of like acting you were doing, you know, pre booking these roles?

 

Hunter Doohan It was the kind of acting I was trying to do. But no, I mean, like when people always ask like, you know, I think that’s a very generous question to ask me. It’s like, what drew you to it? It’s like, Oh, that was one of the self tapes I got. And I was like, Please, please, someone watch this and give me a job. But it is weird that there are a few like similarities in the characters between Your Honor and Wednesday, just have like like stupid things like that. But the dad’s being like a sheriff and a judge and my mom’s dead in both of them. And they’re kind of like intense characters, I guess. And I don’t know what I’d really like has drawn me to it, I guess like Bryan, I have some demons in me that allow me to do these roles.

 

Louis Virtel I would say you do have it is like a beguiling quality about you though, because like literally looking at you, I’m like, oh, this person, you know, is quote unquote soft. Like you could you couldn’t hurt a fly or whatever. You know, we used to have actors like Anthony Perkins who did this sort of thing, you know what mean, and and then, of course, you’ve come out with this whole other side. I mean, it must be a pleasure in some ways to be able to shock people.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah. Wednesday was really fun. I mean, I kept saying it should feel like you’re just stereotypical YA teenage boyfriend for seven episodes and then so it can have like a really hard flip in episode eight. And it was really fun to play and I am excited for season two to kind of like start off in that place.

 

Louis Virtel Is that filming soon? Are you already in the midst of it yet?

 

Hunter Doohan Uh, I am. I guess I’m getting ahead of myself. I’m waiting on the official call, so. But.

 

Louis Virtel It would be mind boggling if they didn’t know it. Isn’t this like the most popular show in the has? I read some Netflix statistics where it’s like one in two citizens of the universe have watched the show or something.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, our first year we beat the like single week streaming numbers of like the fourth season of Stranger Things. It was insane. So I feel like it’s a bit annoying to be like, I don’t know if season 2 is coming.

 

Ira Madison III I mean, I feel like everyone is either watching Wednesday or watching Dahmer. I can’t wait for season 2 of that.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel Finally meets the woman of his dreams. Yes. Yeah

 

Hunter Doohan The problem was he was gay.

 

Ira Madison III I think so. What’s interesting, I want to go back to the thing that Louis was talking about, too, about you’re sort of your husband, Fielder, sort of knowing so many things, you know, and have been great at trivia. But I feel like you what kind of pop culture like what what section of trivia are you good at and like what pop culture things like sort of like are the most that interests you? You know, like what are you consuming when you’re not in Romania? Or while you’re in Romania? To take your mind off of, you know, acting.

 

Hunter Doohan You know, it is pop culture. And, you know, I say that is like the two like pop culture gods here. But in Romania I kind of I got into Drag Race for the first time. That was another like life saving thing just to like binge 14 seasons of drag race in between acting like a monster on set. Oh, my God. My stupid gay brain can only think of like White Lotus right now.

 

Louis Virtel That’s what we’re discussing this episode, too. It’s on my mind also. Yeah.

 

Hunter Doohan No, I mean, I. Yeah. Although I’ve always been a huge, like, more of, like, a TV fanatic than movies, I think. I guess because I was just kind of like I was exposed to like growing up in Arkansas. I just wasn’t like, didn’t have a big film education, but I got like super into, you know, you know, a bunch of network TV, you know, like I was obsessed with everything Shonda Rhimes did for ever. And then, you know, got into Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad. And yeah, I just kind of binge watched kind of all the big shows.

 

Louis Virtel Mysteriously. Some of that is actually a blind spot to me. Like there was a time I’ve seen all of season maybe two and three of Gray’s Anatomy, but in a way, I’m like random aside, I know Shonda that well. I’d like in a way, to me, like, T.R. Knight is still on Gray’s Anatomy. Not true, Louis.

 

Hunter Doohan No.

 

Ira Madison III There are two people from the original cast still on this show, Louis.

 

Louis Virtel And it’s not Justin Chambers and it’s not even Ellen Pompeo anymore at this moment it is.

 

Ira Madison III No, it’s the chief is the chief of Bailey. That’s it

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes, Shondra Wilson. Yes, that’s right.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. Black people keep a job. Okay. Let me tell you.

 

Louis Virtel The message is clear.  Yeah. Hunter, thank you so much for being here. Your continued ascent will be thrilling for us to watch. And a little horrifying because again, Netflix superfans are bone chilling. So look out for us.

 

Hunter Doohan Okay. Thank you for the warning.

 

Ira Madison III I hope they make weird Tik Toks of us now. You know, the three of us.

 

Louis Virtel We put ourselves on tape every it’s like a self tape every week. And yet nobody takes this bait. Yeah.

 

Hunter Doohan Right. This is the invitation for all Wednesday fans to make creepy edits of you guys.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Thank you, Hunter. Precisely.

 

Hunter Doohan Set to a Billie Eilish song. Let’s go. Well, thank you guys so much for having me on. I again love your show, so this is so fun.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah.

 

Louis Virtel It’s also been like ages since I’ve seen you. I hope I see you again soon.

 

Hunter Doohan Yeah, I know. That’d be great.

 

Ira Madison III <AD>.

 

Ira Madison III The Golden Globes. Truly the Jan Brady of awards season.

 

Louis Virtel Cute.

 

Ira Madison III I feel like anyone could sort of say that you have an award. It’s just sort of like saying your boyfriend is George Glass.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. No, it’s also one of those things where it’s like we give you an American Music Award. Like, it’s exciting because somebody is reading your name and you are holding a statue, but then you get home and you’re like, I mean, I don’t want to put this out.

 

Ira Madison III I know you’re like you’re like around like real actors, you know, like the like nobody has a Golden Globe in our school.  We’ve we’ve been we’ve been to Sally Field’s help meaning  the Oscars are on display.

 

Louis Virtel Right. I’ve held them, one of them. And no, they’re only five years apart. But I feel like one is in significantly worse condition than the other one. Sally, let’s get some refurbishing going on.

 

Ira Madison III But listen, the Globes are back. And obviously a shout out to, you know, Abbott Elementary for getting all these. I mean, I feel like everyone involved with Abbott was just sort of like. It’s really nice to be recognized because we’re a new show and this will do things for us in the industry and especially for the writing staff, etc. But they were also just sort of like the Golden Globes and still kind of racist and wack.

 

Louis Virtel And also the TV component of the Golden Globes has always been the most laughable because it’s like the new show Olympics, like who was newest? Ah, Mozart in the Jungle. We’re obsessed with you. You came out today. You know. It’s like they really want to get in on the ground floor of awarding something. They like being the first to do it. So often you’ll see a you know, it’s like it’s like when Rachel Bloom won for Crazy Ex-girlfriend. Not that she did not deserve more awards, obviously, like talk about an Olympics of a show. But that was one of those things where like they got her first. So

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And they nominated Issa off Insecure and then Gina Rodriguez Jane the Virgin. You know.

 

Louis Virtel She won.

 

Ira Madison III Rachel Brosnahan.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Lena Dunham won for Girls, right? Right. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yes. So that always is one aspect of it. But with so many fucking shows is just like it’s hard to do that now. I mean, Dahmer was nominated, which of course was going to be nominated. I still haven’t watched Dahmer. I don’t give a fuck.

 

Louis Virtel I know I have nothing left to learn. I just like true crime podcasts don’t even appeal to me that much. I just it it feels. I don’t want to say it feels icky. It just feels like who wants to fucking see that?

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, it’s partially the being from Milwaukee and knowing about Dahmer, but also.

 

Louis Virtel Oh yes.

 

Ira Madison III Like it just feels like, okay, we’ve like you’ve done these sleek things on him so much, it’s just time to move on.

 

Louis Virtel I have to say, though, for the best motion picture drama category, I don’t know that what I would pick, but. Avatar, The Way of Water. Elvis, the Fablemans, Tar, and Top Gun Maverick that’s at least kind of juicy all together. Like all those movies have nothing to do with each other, and they’re kind of big and splashy in different ways. You could go a bunch of different directions, like the Fablemans’ sentimental, Elvis obviously is, you know, a another Baz Luhrmann, candy colored circus, Top Gun Maverick.

 

Ira Madison III Which I love.

 

Louis Virtel Your uncle saw. Yeah. You loved Elvis. I again, I think I brought this up before it reminded me of Evita and that they made a montage, not a movie.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. Well, I b personally, I think that it’s. I had diminishing returns with Baz Luhrmann films like.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I watched Romeo and Juliet the first time when we were in lockdown. And it was bad to me. And, you know, I liked Moulin Rouge less and less every time I watch it, but Elvis just really sort of hit for me. It just felt so weird and sort of. Like trends to me. I think if I had a large part to do with Austin Butler’s performance, but was definitely not because of Tom Hanks’s.

 

Louis Virtel Tom Hanks. It’s so weird that even Tom Hanks gets a flop era, and it is definitely right now.

 

Ira Madison III That that movie he’s doing about Our Mean Neighbor.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, it’s it should be called the Mean Neighbor. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I was like baby, does Chett have some debt?

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Why are you playing this yet? This minor character. I’m Bewitched.

 

Ira Madison III Then we’ve got the musical or comedy, which is Babylon, The Banshees of Inisherin, Everything Everywhere, All at Once, Glass Onion, and Triangle of  Sadness. I have not seen Banshees yet.

 

Louis Virtel That’s also the only one I haven’t seen. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Which is.

 

Louis Virtel And Babylon. Sorry.

 

Ira Madison III And Martin McDonagh is also in my list of creators whose work is inspired by soap operas. So.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III I love him. And I will be seeing that. Babylon, I will be seeing that at gunpoint. But, I want to say. I would be up for any of these sort of really winning because I just saw Triangle of Sadness last week.

 

Louis Virtel Me too.

 

Ira Madison III It is so fucking good.

 

Louis Virtel Also, I mean, like, I’m not sure about Palme d’Or winning, which it did, but, you know, Triangle of Sadness is a movie starring, first of all, Harris Dickinson, who is great, loved him in Beach Rats. It also stars this actress, Charlbi Dean, as his influencer girlfriend who actually passed away a couple of months ago after a sudden illness. She is great in the movie. But anyway, it takes this movie takes a couple of gigantic plot twists and a couple of utterly eye popping disaster scenes. I don’t think that’s giving away anything. And I just appreciated the gall of the movie because it is downright disgusting at times. And then it turns into Survivor. There’s an actress in this movie. Dolly De Leon was nominated for a Golden Globe, and the performance she gives.

 

Ira Madison III Icon.

 

Louis Virtel The performance she gives is the first time I have seen someone give a Juilliard level performance as a reality contestant. That is doing in this movie. I feel like we are constantly waiting for like reality TV characters to turn into, you know, the people that the Cate Blanchett’s and the Julianne Moore, Julianne Moore’s play. And in this movie, she is just delicious. It really is a fantastic Oscar nomination.

 

Ira Madison III You’re knocking Kelly Wearstler like that?  Yeah. She played two idols

 

Louis Virtel That’s true. Right. Wait, wait. Are you talking about Kelly Wearstler is that interior designer.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, no. Sorry.

 

Louis Virtel Kelly Wigglesworth.

 

Ira Madison III No, no. Kelly Wigglesworth. Kelly Wigglesworth. Kelly Wigglesworth. There are too many white women named Kelly. And then last names W. What’s going on?

 

Louis Virtel Right. No. Right. It’s confusing. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Ruben ÖSTLUND, who directed that, also did Force Majeure. He did The Square. I fucking love The Square. I’m I’m an Ostlund stan, so I’m like everyone who responded to, like, my Instagram story of a friend of mine, like, I love triangles. And so I was like, Have you seen The Square? They haven’t seen The Square. I’m like, Well, you need to go see the fucking Square. That movie that is a movie that is so fucking weird and has like there’s a dinner scene in it. Have you seen The Squar?

 

Louis Virtel No, I’ve not.

 

Ira Madison III There’s a dinner scene and it was just sort of like one of the most tense scenes I’ve ever seen in a film up until I saw Triangle of Sadness, as he really does gross out comedy very well, but also does make you feel like your skin is crawling. Like even the opening of Triangle of Sadness was so, like, I’m so uncomfortable with the that guy, like, interviewing the male models and having them do weird stuff. I was like,.

 

Louis Virtel I was so long. I can’t look at this.

 

Ira Madison III I was like somebody please stop.

 

Louis Virtel He was trying to the character is like trying to be like funny in a sort of like Access Hollywood interviewee way and that the models who are shirtless are all so uncomfortable and it just holds on the scene like it to say, you know how like the phrase, you can’t look away. You can’t look at this. Like my neck is like jolting to the right, trying not to watch the scene. I want to point out the best actress in a musical or comedy category, because everybody here is good. Lesley Manville Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. As you know, we befriended Isabelle Huppert this year, so we’re a little bit in the bag for that. But Michelle Yeoh in Everything Everywhere All at Once, she’s she’s going to body this category. It’s definitely going to be her. And I tell you, this match up between her and Cate Blanchett and I think that’s ultimately who will come down to. I have not seen Till yet. I have not seen Danielle Deadwyler, who was blanked in this at the Golden Globes. Very shockingly, it’s turning into an Olivia Colman Glenn Close sort of battle. I the stakes are high and I, I kind of vacillate by the day based on who I really think it should go to because Michelle gives a one of a kind performance. They’re such hard performances to compare. Cate Blanchett is giving you this operatic gothic spiral. And then Michelle Yeoh is giving you a performance where she is constantly reacting to something new at any given moment, whether it’s a multiverse or like a character storming, something that her character has changed. You’ve never seen somebody have to do more reacting in a movie.

 

Ira Madison III Mm hmm. I mean, and I haven’t seen Olivia Colman yet. And Empire of Light. But, you know, I always love anything set in a movie theater. You know, Annie Baker’s The Flick.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. The opening of Scream Two. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, you know, where we just very much love our movie theater culture, you know?

 

Louis Virtel Yes, right. Yes. The movie The Majestic. Definitely Jim Carrey’s best work. I’m kidding. If you could sit through that, something’s wrong with you.

 

Ira Madison III Also something that’s lost us. You know, I feel like going to the movies, you know, isn’t is not what it used to be. I loved I truly loved going to the mall every weekend. They barely like knowing you. Yes, this new thing is playing, but sometimes you don’t know what else is playing and just sort of like taking it all in. There was some some was tweeting about Tim that with all the movies out now and marketing and with like, you know, people don’t go out anymore. So, you know, there’s not billboards and like newspapers are gone. It’s sort of hard to tell what’s in theaters now.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, you have to go on like the AMC app. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And most people don’t do that a lot like the large moviegoing audience doesn’t do that. So I’ve done this a lot of like things that they probably would have gone to see before.

 

Louis Virtel Man, I do. Just brought back the visual of looking through a newspaper at movie times, but crazy. I mean, did we live in the 1920s? What the fuck is that?

 

Ira Madison III And also, if you remember specifically buying a ticket in line before they had automated things for you to buy them or before you could buy it at home, and being stuck behind someone asking the person selling the movie tickets what each movies about.

 

Louis Virtel Oh, my God. Oh, that’s so painful. Yes, Titanic. Go on. Yes. Painful. No, I remember you would be looking at movie times and then get distracted and read Peanuts or whatever it was right above that anyway. Angela Bassett, nominated for Black Panther Wakanda Forever, guys. She kind of had like a scene and a half. I don’t know. Are we sure?

 

Ira Madison III I feel like I feel like that’s making up for the wealth of nominations that Angela Bassett deserved.

 

Louis Virtel Yes. Right. Okay, fine. And Jamie Lee Curtis, maybe the same situation, everything everywhere all at once. I think maybe Stephanie HSU is the better performance in that movie. And people are just psyched for Jamie Lee Curtis and they’re always like, oh, finally she’ll get an Oscar nomination. I don’t mean to be a dick. She deserve an Oscar nomination for it because it sounds like you either are saying true lies or what? Like a fish called Wanda. Like what? What’s the movie on this side of?

 

Ira Madison III Perfect.

 

Louis Virtel Oh. Memorable leotard. Wonderful leotard. I’m talking here with Franklin. Now.

 

Ira Madison III That’s interesting that I like, because whenever I think about, you know, after that we’ve done for a long time, you know, you’re always sort of like. Whoa. I love that they got an Oscar, you know? And I feel like that’s why we have, like, Sandra Bullock win for, you know.

 

Louis Virtel The Blind Side.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I blocked the name out, but Jamie Lee Curtis. Yeah. Like, what would she be nominated for? Like, what would she win for? I suppose you’re right. It’d be it would have to be a fish called Wanda. Right?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Which also, of course, has an Oscar winning performance in it. So maybe it feels intuitively correct to other people also in this category. Carey Mulligan And she said, Did you see this movie?

 

Ira Madison III I have no plans to.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Well, let me tell you, it’s exactly what you think it is. Jodi Kantor and Meghann Twohey. You know, the beginning of the MeToo movement, they’re reporting on Harvey Weinstein. Ronan Farrow is actually almost a villain in this. They’re like, we just heard that. Farrow’s also reporting like they’re like, oh, we have to move faster. It’s really funny. But one of the few movies I’ve ever seen that wanted to me to be a podcast because all it is is people getting on the phone or being like, I have to get on the phone now. And so you’re just paying attention to voices the entire time, and there’s not really much to look at. But I’m happy for Carey Mulligan. Obviously, she’s a great actress.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, also women’s stories matter. They just matter.

 

Louis Virtel Right? I actually. Is that Reese Witherspoon?

 

Ira Madison III That’s Reese Witherspoon.

 

Louis Virtel Okay. Yeah. I forgot who said that on The View. , I believe

 

Ira Madison III That’s that’s just another one of those films where I just sort of feel like I truly hate the whipping up a story about something that sort of really just happens.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III And feeling like you’re not really diving into it. I mean, there’s always the argument that All the President’s Men happened right after Watergate, but I’m like, the caliber there was better. I mean, this is this she said is like giving bombshell. And I’m glad that I had to sit through Bombshell.

 

Louis Virtel Bombshell sucked. Also, you’re right it’s the same principle. There’s something about a journalism movie. And I know we had Spotlight a few years ago, which, you know, was a pretty thrilling best picture and everybody liked it. But like something that really makes a movie like that come alive is like hardcore, dramatic acting. And by that, I mean, like, Dustin Hoffman was always a little unhinged. Like, there’s like an anger component. And then you have like, Jason Robards as the editor who, you know, he’s got this like Easter Island statue look and fucking face. And he says things like, Oh, back in my day as a reporter, you know, it’s just like there’s there’s lots of character going on there. Whereas here I feel like they almost play the characters with too much dignity in order for it to be any good.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, because we’re sort of in this era of like, you know, these women like Bombshell was just basically like, okay, we have to take down Rupert Murdoch. And so everybody took down Rupert Murdoch as a hero. I’m like, okay, there are also white supremacists who work at Fox News. You know, like, where’s the nuance here? You know.

 

Louis Virtel And also like that movie. This is an extraordinary thing that occurred. And they make it all basically seem just like methodical and step by step. And like every other movie you’ve seen, it’s like they lose the thing that makes it special.

 

Ira Madison III Right. And I guess it’s easy, you know, like she said, you know, like I haven’t seen it yet and I probably will. But, you know, there’s something just about like Spotlight right now where it’s sort of like tapping into the community, like dealing with, you know, these priest allegations and things like that. You know, it’s it felt like there was a sense of foreboding that was in it.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III I guess the difference between well-made and that while, you know, because like a journalism movie can be great, you know, you can get you get Nightcrawler, you know, like Almost Famous, Shattered Glass.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, I love Shattered Glass.

 

Ira Madison III I love Shattered Glass. Shout out to when we had all the hopes in the world for Hayden Christensen.

 

Louis Virtel I remember exactly that month. Yes.

 

Ira Madison III And, I am not one of those people who think that he could never act. I truly think that like being in Star Wars sucked his ability to act out of him.

 

Louis Virtel George Lucas, you will pass and I know you have the money, so stop. But speaking of being seated, I will be watching this award show because what the fuck is it? So I’m ready.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah, I’m sort of glad it’s back, you know, it’s goofy. It’s whatever. I mean, where else are you going to have Zendaya in a category opposite Hilary Swank.

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, Alaska Daily Real Television Show. You can’t tell me it’s not. Now it has a nomination.

 

Ira Madison III Every time I see ads for like on a subway or something, I’m always like, this is a simulation, right? Right. This is this is this is a fake TV show and a David Lynch TV show.

 

Louis Virtel Right? Yes. Yeah. It does feel like 30 Rocks, Catch, etc.. But you know what? Maybe she’s amazing. The woman has two Oscars.

 

Ira Madison III All right. When we’re back, it’s time for Keep It. And we are back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is Keep It. Louis, what’s your Keep It this week?

 

Louis Virtel I think I’m just a reverberation of what’s already occurring on the Internet this week, but my keep it is to the movie The Whale, which I saw this past weekend. Couple of things going on here. First of all, the main attention is towards whether this movie, which stars Brendan Fraser in a comeback performance and by the way, a really good performance as a man. And it’s based on a play by Samuel Hunter, who is 600 pounds. His life is basically gotten away from him since his partner passed away. And he is basically determined to like eat himself to death, like he’s he wants to die, basically, and he lives this sedentary life. He is a an English teacher or at least a rhetoric teacher, basically teaches kids to write essays over Zoom, and he doesn’t even put his face on the camera because he’s too ashamed of what he looks like so they never see him. I’m going to start with the problems with this movie that other people don’t seem to be talking about wretched supporting performances and I mean unreal. I’m like, so bizarre. I don’t know what’s happening. First of all, she’s not the worst person. This movie people are talking about a nomination for Honcho. Absolutely not. This is somebody who this character is trying to get. She’s the sister of his late partner and she basically is there to put her hands on her hips and be like, you’re doing this again. You’re getting in. She’s like like this because it’s like a play and they’re stuck in this one room. She’s this person who comes over, stands there with arms akimbo and tells him, You’ve got to get your life in order. Then there’s this religious missionary who comes by and he’s this young kind of Mormon ish looking guy. He’s actually not bad. Then there’s Sadie Sink, who plays his estranged daughter, who comes back into his life. I guess I have to blame Darren Aronofsky because the performance is so at a ten. She comes in and is immediately so insulting to him, so rude and so shrill constantly. It makes no sense. And then later on, his ex-wife, played by Samantha morton, who, by the way, is really good and she said gives a shockingly unrealistic performance as somebody who is, I guess, still mad at him and. The way I would characterize what’s wrong with this play, the way I would characterize what’s wrong with this movie is it feels like a play in all the worst ways, which is there are characters who begin lines with God dammit, that kind of thing. And then and then also there’s the subject matter of the movie, which is I think there are probably people like this to exist of like, you know, like people who are despairing, who are who, who still have kind of a light in them. But like, you know, the light has gone out in the world for them. But I still feel like in a world where you don’t have obese characters and like rom coms, you don’t have obese characters in thrillers. This is a movie that satisfies the curiosity of cruel onlookers, which is to say somebody who looks at an obese person says, Don’t they feel bad about themselves or don’t they know they’re killing themselves? And then this play and movie then says, yes, this is somebody who says yes to those things. And I just feel like this character has no moments of real levity of of joy other than love for his daughter, who is fucking horrible to him. And I feel like it’s not just an optics problem. It’s just this is not something that should exist in a world where we don’t give obese people humanity and the arts as characters.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, like, obviously, like Guy Brown, Roxane Gay. I think we’ve all Lonzo Ball on this podcast, too. Yes. It’s not about, you know, like this representation of fat characters in the media and just sort of how it just feels sort of gross and cruel.

 

Louis Virtel Exploitative. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah. And, you know, it feels like. Ah, I think it’s like whenever I see that one, it’s like whenever I see that fucking Neil LaBute play Fat Pig, which I know it’s supposed to be like, Oh, it’s about like this guy goes about this woman and he’s weird, but I mean, I also just sort of hate it and also hate Neil LaBute. And I’m sad that Darren Aronofsky has gone down this route, too, because I’m like. Oh. I hate it when sexy people disappoint me. You know?

 

Louis Virtel Right. Well, also, it’s like when you think of the canon of Darren Aronofsky, you have a lot of people who are confined in certain ways. Right. And even a body horror way too, you know, you think of Black Swan or Mother, you know, there’s a sense of grimness that’s usually reflected in flesh wounds and things like that. And so when you compare this movie to that, it feels like he just sees fatness as, you know, this gross unsightly obstacle. That’s it.

 

Ira Madison III Right. And I doubt anybody involved in the making of it, you know, beside themselves or on the crew, like anything, you know, like anyone involved in the actual production of it is just sort of like putting their own stories and sort of journey into this, you know? It just feels like people onlooking.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Which is. I don’t know. Darren Aronofsky like needs to go back to the sisters. Okay. The women.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III Okay, Mother.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. Ellen Burstyn in Requiem.

 

Louis Virtel Still his best work that performance.

 

Ira Madison III Okay. Like, like, give back. Get back to that. Okay, get back to Nina. Okay. Like, try to be the swan. Like, women stories matter. I wasn’t just saying as a joke like. And I think they matter in the most to Darren Aronofsky because because this isn’t cutting it.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III I will say the one time he made a man interesting was The Wrestler, which is.

 

Louis Virtel Yes.

 

Ira Madison III An iconic film.

 

Louis Virtel And of course, Marissa Tomei steals that, too.

 

Ira Madison III So, yeah, you know, so I haven’t seen The Whale yet, but. Oh.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah, I’m curious what you think again. Like, it’s so weird to see a movie with a bunch of bad performances. I can’t think of the last time that was the case. Ira, what is your Keep It this week.

 

Ira Madison III My keep it this week goes to, oh, there’s so much I could say Keep It this week to, you know, like I was going to bring up Elon Musk, but a whole audience of people said Keep It to him at Dave Chappelle’s Show.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III So that’s ironic. Um, so I guess my keep it this week is going to be to SZA.

 

Louis Virtel Oh,Yes, that’s right. You previewed this earlier.

 

Ira Madison III Let me tell you something, Salana. I am so distressed by this album. I’m distressed because it is so depressing. She is talking about I’d rather be I’d rather be in hell that alone. I’d rather be in jail than alone, like kill my ex. I’m going to kill his girlfriend. I will say I just killed my ass is a fantastic line in the song Kill Bill, my favorite song on the album, Seek and Destroy. It’s just sort of like that is about, you know, like blowing up a relationship, all missles deployed. I’m like, I just can’t take all this on my heart into 2023.

 

Louis Virtel Right.

 

Ira Madison III I love the album. I think it’s great. I’m glad that she is working through like all her fucking trauma and just like putting them on the page, you know, putting, putting it on wax. But I need personally to not be mired in revenge and old relationships that, you know, are just so I think the albums are basic, but I can’t have this energy. So I’m going to I’m going to be like that. That woman stepping from one year to the next with her bag, you know, like leaving those things behind. I’m going to be leaving S.O.S. in 2022.

 

Louis Virtel What’s the name of the song co-written by Lizzo that sounds a little bit like Avril Lavigne could have sang it?

 

Ira Madison III F2F.

 

Louis Virtel I enjoy that one. That was a nice swing from her, I thought. But yeah, I could’ve used another pop hook. I know people are obsessed with this album. I don’t mean to be naysaying, so.

 

Ira Madison III It’s so much. It’s something you got to keep listening to it over and over. I feel like you’re more of an upbeat R&B listener. You know, you’re not. You’re not like you’re not vibes.

 

Louis Virtel Nothing about me is vibes. In fact, I’m anti-vibes.

 

Ira Madison III  I’m like, I’m like you you failed vibe-ology in college, famously.

 

Louis Virtel Which is crazy because it was my minor. Yeah.

 

Ira Madison III Yeah the album was just vibes. I mean and I fucking love SZA and I think she’s so smart and I think I love just how she has really just made this sprawling album that is that particularly, you know, there’s no throughline, I think. But I think, you know, like you’ve got really great highs, you know, like, like I said, those first two songs. I mean, I love Notice Me Gone Girl like her link up with Phoebe Bridgers is great. You know, I love the song with Travis Scott, but I didn’t even really need the features that much, you know, like it’s she’s a very strong artist. And to come back after five years with the new album and have everyone just sort of have another big cultural moment and a year of so many artist cultural moments with Beyonce and Taylor Drake just sort of like snatch it at the end of the year is really exciting.

 

Louis Virtel Unfortunately, you said the words Phoebe Bridgers, which is really triggering to me at this point because she took Paul Mescal away from the rest of us, and I thought that was rude artistically. So

 

Ira Madison III I love they met, um.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah on some like Zoom chat or something.

 

Ira Madison III On like Instagram Live or something.

 

Louis Virtel Instagram Live. Yeah

 

Ira Madison III Or something. I think that she was on something talking about how much she loved normal people. Oh, so she tweeted back in 2020 when we were all locked down, by the way, finished normal people and now I’m sad and horny. Oh, wait. And Paul replied, I’m officially dead. And then Phoebe responded with that meme like, No, don’t die. You’re so talented. And he responded, too late. Dead. And then I guess they went to an Instagram live to talk about, you know, normal people and the music and whatever. And the rest is history.

 

Louis Virtel It’s actually offensively cute. I mean.

 

Ira Madison III It sounds like that is that is a beautiful meet cute.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. And and a sickening. I’m sorry. I’m upset. It’s so lovely.

 

Ira Madison III Oh, maybe Bryan Cranston will officiate their way.

 

Louis Virtel Yeah. Oh, my God. We should have asked more about that.

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, I should. I’m just like. I love this. I would love a reality series of Bryan Cranston officiating wedding.

 

Louis Virtel That would be cute. Yeah. An adorable move for him. He’s on TV anyway. Why not?

 

Ira Madison III Anyway, that’s our show this week. So thanks to Hunter Doohan for joining us. And we will see you next week with our last episode of the year. Keep It as a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Kendra James. Our producer is Chris Lord. Our executive producers are Ira Madison III.

 

Louis Virtel And Louis Virtel.

 

Ira Madison III Our editor is Charlotte Landes and Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.

 

Louis Virtel Thank you to our digital team, Matt DeGroot, Nar Melkonian and Delon Villanueva for our production support every week.

 

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