On this episode of X-Ray Vision, Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight revisit Westview New Jersey, the world of sit-coms, and all things chaos magic! First in Previously On (2:51), Jason and Rosie discuss America Chavez co-creator Joe Casey’s comments in The Hollywood Reporter on creator compensation, break down the Thor: Love & Thunder trailer with lore, theories, and a relevant reading list for Jason Aaron’s incredible and immense run on Thor. Then, they recap and discuss Moon Knight episode 4, “The Tomb.” In the Airlock (1:09:28), they dive deep (deeeeep) into the series WandaVision with a primer on how the series will affect Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness and beyond in phase four of the MCU, with tons of lore-inspired theories direct from the comics. Finally, in Nerd Out (1:40:14) a listener pitches us on best-selling fantasy author Brandon Sanderson.

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Send a short pitch and 2-3 minute voice memo recording to xray@crooked.com that answers the following questions: 1) How did you get into/discover your ‘Nerd Out?’ (2) Why should we get into it too? (3) What’s coming soon in this world that we can look forward to or where can we find it?

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PLUGS:

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The Listener’s Guide for all things X-Ray Vision!

Avengers (2016) by Mark Waid and Mike del Mundo; subtitled “Kang Wars” so you know it’s relevant to phase four of the MCU; available on Amazon, Marvel Unlimited, and more.

Thor: God of Thunder #1 – 25 by Jason Aaron and Esad Ribic; available on Amazon, thriftbooks, Marvel Unlimited, and more.

Thor (2014) #1 – 8 by Jason Aaron and Russell Dauterman; available on Amazon, thriftbooks, Marvel Unlimited, and more.

Bonus Material: Original Sin #0 – 8 by Mark Waid and Jim Cheung; available on Amazon, thriftbooks, Marvel Unlimited, and more.

Moon Knight by Jeff Lemire, Greg Smallwood, and more; available on Amazon, thriftbooks, Marvel Unlimited, and more.

The Vision & The Scarlet Witch (1982) – Volume 1, 4 issues, written by Bill Mantlo & pencils by Rick Leonardi; available on Marvel Unlimited or comixology.

The Vision & The Scarlet Witch (1985) – Volume 2, 12 issues, written by Steve Englehart & pencils by Richard Howell; available on Marvel Unlimited or comixology.

TRANSCRIPT

Jason Concepcion: Warning this podcast contains spoilers for so much stuff, man, Moon Knight episode four and certainly the series up to date. The Thor in Love and Thunder trailer in the comics that the movie and trailer are based on, with lots of theories that in which we speculate about what might happen in that said movie, we are going to spoil WandaVision. So if you haven’t seen that yet, you should go back and watch that because we’re going to be talking about a lot of WandaVision stuff and the implications therein for the movies and the TV shows going forward. So be warned. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion, welcome to X-ray Vision, the Crooked podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture in today’s episode. Previously on, we discuss comics creator Joe Caseys recent comments regarding one of his creations, America Chavez. We will be analyzing the Thor Love and Thunder trailer, the teaser trailer that has set the internet on fire, and we will be recapping Moon Knight Episode four. A wild episode, folks, in the airlock, we’ll take you back to the early days of the pandemic, which I know people can’t wait to go back to those days. The pre vaccine, early days of the pandemic and talk about the hit series WandaVision on Disney Plus in preparation for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which comes out in a couple of weeks, folks, and and the ongoing evolution of phase four in the MCU for nerd out, a listener will be pitching us on the works of the author, Brandon Sanderson, the bestselling fantasy author Brandon Sanderson. And listen, if you want to jump around, you’re scared about spoilers. You haven’t watched all of WandaVision, you can watch it all the Moon Knight, yada yada yada. Check out the timestamps in the show notes that’ll help you navigate the multiverse of X Ray Vision. And of course, joining me today is the great, the Brilliant, the fantastically smart writer and comics encyclopedia. Rosie Knight. Rosie, how are you?

Rosie Knight: Hello, I’m so happy after my lovely introduction. Every week, I’m like, This is where I get my self-esteem. This is it. It’s Jason. How are you?

Jason Concepcion: I’m doing well. Gosh, how am I doing? I’m great. I’m doing. I’m doing well. It’s been. It’s been a busy time, but it’s delightful to be on the Zoom talking about stuff for all of you who who care about the bookshelves. I went back to my bookshelf today and I like lightly touched it to make sure just in case an earthquake happens or anything, that my bookshelf is sturdy and it is. Let’s get into the news. First up on Privacy on America Chavez co-creator Joe Casey with comments to The Hollywood Reporter regarding compensation for comics creators who create characters who then go on to be part of multi million and billion dollar properties ahead of Multiverse of Madness release on May six. The fan favorite hero, Amara America Chavez, played by Associate Gomez, of course, can be part of this movie, and Joe Casey has stated in The Hollywood Reporter that he has not received a payment for Mark America Chavez from Disney MCU. Casey rejected what he describes as the pittance fee, which is we’ve talked about, which is the fee that is usually offered to comics creators when they get when they get a character or team into a Marvel movie. That fee is said to be in the $5000 range, which we can’t get any confirmation on that because there’s probably like a NDA that puts like a sniper target on your forehead should you break the NDA? But here is a quote from Casey. The fact is, Marvel owns America Chavez. That’s not in dispute on any level, but there are still systemic fault flaws in the way that creators are neither respected nor rewarded. And listen. Who knows, this is an ongoing like long running, like almost 100 year problem in the comics industry, going back to, you know, pick a comic book character, you know, Batman, Superman, like you could go back. But as we enter an age in which these characters are then parts of these huge, totemic cinema properties, it only makes sense that that the creators should be able to participate in some way, at least to the tune of something more than $5000.

Rosie Knight: Yeah, it’s it’s something that we’ve talked about a lot. The notion of creator rights in comics, which goes back as far as you know, the creators of Superman, Siegel and Shuster, it goes to Jack Kirby, the kind of big create as this has been an ongoing issue. And what Joe Casey is talking about here is what we talked about before, which is a work for hire contract, which is where anything you create for Marvel is owned by Marvel, and that has been the standard since two of the mid-seventies. But like you say, I think we’re getting to a time now where one, these conversations are happening more. This is in The Hollywood Reporter. You know, we’re talking about, are our listeners have asked us about this stuff in mailbag episodes? Doctor Strange. I’ll say it right now. Doctor Strange two. I think it’s probably going to make a billion dollars,

Jason Concepcion: $800 million. $900.

Rosie Knight: I know it’s going to it’s probably going to hit a billion. And when you think about that and you think about the cultural impact of Chavez as a Latino LGBTQ. Icon, who has become a cosplay icon, video games, TV shows, animated shows, toys you can go into Target and buy an America Chavez toy. $5000 is not appropriate. We know that the answer to this is a comic book union which everyone has always been dreaming of. But I also hope for maybe a day when. In the wake of the MCU, contracts are reimagined that counter for this role, like the NFL

Jason Concepcion: contracts that listen, this is nobody’s priority, of course. Like for the people that do like that run, that is right. But like, you know, these contracts should just better reflect the reality of what the economic marketplace says about these particular properties as a soon to be full fledged member of the WGA, the Writers Guild. One of the things that happens in TV is if you write an episode of television, you don’t own any of those characters on the security of the show, right? If you write an episode of television in which appears a character for the first time, who then goes on to become a series regular, you get money for that. You get broken off some money for that. So I think the answer again to your point is some some form of a union because this is a this is a around comics where people dream about entering this, they can’t wait to get in. And so that. You know, is leveraged against them, hey, you don’t like it, hit the bricks, we got a million people waiting in line to get into this.

Rosie Knight: And and also I will just finally say as well the page rates for creating comics are not what you think they are like people. There is not a and I cannot say what Joe Casey and Nick Jugal were paid, but I can say I have friends who write comics for Marvel who cannot pay their rent. Writing comics for Marvel, that is not. It is not what people assume if you write Batman. Obviously, DC, but if you write Batman, you write Superman. You write Captain America. You write Iron Man. There is the assumption that that’s like being a famous novelist, but it’s that is not the compensation that comics has ever given people except for, like in the 90s and the image boys, which is which was a fun change of completely different. But yeah, I just think that’s another important thing. This isn’t a notion of people who are already making a lot of money or getting royalties or anything from the characters they create in the comics. This is people who were paid probably underpaid for what they created and now saying, Hey, somebody is making a billion dollars out of this. Can we please? Yes, get a little

Jason Concepcion: bit of that. Can I get something with that with five digits in it, please? At least. Up next, the Thor Love and Thunder trailer has been released.

Speaker 3 His hands were once used for battle. Now they’re about humble tools for peace. I need to figure out.

Unidentified Exactly who I. I wouldn’t choose my own path. I should be early days of rumor. Remember what I told you?

Speaker 3 Do you ever feel lost? Look into the eyes of the people that you love. At me, just listening.

Jason Concepcion: That was thunder. People have been bullying the MCU at Disney, released the teaser trailer releases in the trailer and we got it, folks. Super exciting trailer that shows Thor on his journey of self-discovery with our good friends. The Guardians of the Galaxy. Notably, as listeners of this podcast will recall, one of the things we we opined about with the Multiverse of Madness trailer is maybe the villain isn’t in it, although it certainly seems like Wanda is the villain, but may be the villain, isn’t it? Here is a trailer in which the villain does definitely does not appear. No, that is. There’s a lot here to unpack. Rosie, what jumped out at you?

Rosie Knight: Well, I thought it was absolutely lovely, very Taika. Just kind of being kind of rock and roll glam rock as you would want it to be after Ragnarok, which was one of my favorite MCU movies. We’ll get to the big reveal at the end, which is obviously kind of the most memorable moment, but I loved kind of seeing the it looks like we’re going to see Thor go on a hero’s journey to find himself. So I kind of like seeing all the different visions of Thor. We see Thor and he’s training with certain chains and he’s wearing a hat where he’s written like strong stuff, and it’s got the old Avengers logo from the comics. I’m really interested that his Guardians of the Galaxy costume or, shall we say, as Guardians of the Galaxy, it looks like it’s based on the 9:00 Eastern to strike stuff where Rick Ross Dawson was Thor, and it’s very extreme and he’s got sleeveless. I love that. I’m really into like, I got really into romance stuff recently. Like, I always collected vintage romance comics because like Kirby and a bunch of other big creatives made them. But like, I got really into real romance, so I loved like the pirate. What he’s like saying, Yeah, The Pirate, it just looks so fun. And I think something that I think the final moment of the trailer and also the poster, which said like the one and only, and then they released another poster today that kind of contradicted that. I like the idea that this might be a space where we see, like multiple iterations of Thor, which is such a big part of the comic book history, right?

Jason Concepcion: So to your point, this story, certainly from the trailer, appears to be a melding of two separate really, really great like all time great comics arcs created by Jason Aaron with art by ESET Rybak for the first one and then the second one. Jason Aaron with Art by Russell. That’s Ben Russell, the great Russell Daryn. There are about five years apart. The first one deals with the appearance of Gore the God butcher, who apparently had been stalking God, Flesh and the godly for centuries before his appearance and attempt to basically massacre all the gods of the galaxy in the universe. And then the second story Mighty Thor, in which a new Thor appears now where there is a lot of excitement at the time when this was running, because a significant part of the buzz was like, Oh, who is what is the identity of this lady Thor? We don’t know whose new Thor? Who could it be? And you had several issues before it was revealed that it was that it was Jane Foster now. OK, question. We see that she’s got me near the end and I’m going to again. I’m going to call the main timeline six one six, even though that’s never been officially established, right? She has what we see is the hammer that was destroyed in Thor Ragnarok by Helo, right? She crushes it and been pieced together, not the alternate version Mondaire that that appeared in Endgame. OK, how did she get it? Because, right, right? Because HeLa crushes it right in Ragnarok. She destroys it in Norway right after Loki and Thor watch Odin, you know, just decide to pass from this from that earthly coil. So how does it reassemble and how does she get it now? Quick back up here in the comics, the gene gets the hammer on the heels of the original sin storyline, in which which is basically like a whodunit. The Watcher The Watcher is killed, right? And and the whole series is about, Oh yeah, who killed the washer? And at the end of this, I’m not going to spoil it. But Thor loses the ability to pick up the hammer. He becomes unworthy. And it is later revealed that Milner has like agency like, has a personality, has some sort of consciousness, and it just basically decided, Oh, Jane Foster, you’re great. I remember you. You’ve always been around. We know each other. We’ve been around each other for many years. You are worthy and you get to pick up the hammer and and wield the power of Thor, which was very handy for her at the time because she was suffering from cancer. And while she was Thor, she’s of course wields the power of the Asgardian God of Thunder. But then when she did not have the hammer, she was state a ill mortal enemy. Extremely. A really heartrending story that is just wonderful and worth your time. So the question is how does she get the hammer and do we think, do we think Mueller has agency a consciousness can sink kind of the way it does in the comics?

Rosie Knight: I think that because we’re looking at what seems to be a story that’s going to focus on the notion of God godly powers, all kinds of different iterations of mythological gods. We see Zeus in this trailer, you know, which is very interesting because you said Thor, those kind of reflective mythologies. And I think that the idea of Ascension Monier that essentially needs to find someone that is so worthy it’s worth the hammer being fixed. Also, I would say so new. Asgard, Norway not too far apart like you could, you could find a way. I also think there’s something to, you know, we saw Thor Forge Stormbreaker in like a dying star, whatever kind of over-the-top stuff that happened when he needed to. So I think there could be something like Jane is drawn to New Asgard and finds the, you know, the pieces and forges it herself.

Jason Concepcion: Yeah.

Rosie Knight: It is also magical. So it could just come back together. You know, if the world needs a Thor and we know that our Thor Odin son, he is not. Taking on that role in the same way,

Jason Concepcion: he’s he’s going

Rosie Knight: he is not the worthy Thor, he’s on his own journey of self-discovery, which means she is going to be a necessary hero for kind of the universe and the protection of the balance of things. And something I think is really interesting about the cancer story, which from a toy release that was announced today, which was like a Thor’s helmet replica, it seems like the movie is going to follow. In the comics, the most interesting thing that they did. I just think it’s still so clever. Every time Jane took on the persona of Mighty Thor and got those powers, the Hammer would purge her system of all chemicals, including animal toxins, including the chemotherapy drugs.

Jason Concepcion: She gets sicker and sicker

Rosie Knight: Which would mean she would get sicker every time. So instead of it being some kind of like magical disability cure or something. Instead, it was actually this choice that she had to make about the space of being a hero. I see that you’ve had an idea. Tell me,

Jason Concepcion: OK, so spoiler again, kind of for the comics, but not really. So Thor names Jane to the Congress of Worlds, where she represents mid-card, you know, among the gods and their deliberative body. In this trailer, we see a scene in which Valkyrie is presiding over over some sort of like a renewable energy treaty debate about what’s going on. What is what did Jane Foster formally study?

Rosie Knight: Yes, exactly right. She.

Jason Concepcion: I think that’s how she gets it. She goes to New Asgard as part of like this as either a science commission or helping out New Asgard with with whatever their role is in this renewable energy thing, right? And so it’s kind of like the Congress of Worlds she becomes part of, like an Asgardian politician, essentially. And that’s how she gets it.

Rosie Knight: Well, that makes a lot of sense. And if you think about something else, I’ve been trying to put together one of the moments in the trailer, which is very fun and 80s, you know, we see all our two goats that we’ve been waiting to see.

Jason Concepcion: Oh my little goatees I love, my goat is just

Rosie Knight: natural, you know? And and his little bottom, we see them pulling the boat, which we now know thanks to Lego is called the goat boat, which is just incredible. And on the boat there is actually a sign from the movie cocktail that says cocktails and dreams. But during that, Valkyrie is on that boat in her kind of more warrior themed outfit, her battle outfit. And it looks like at some point she is going to need to leave the leadership of New Asgard because it just doesn’t work for her. We see Robin Hood. And what if Jane could be that person and take that place, you know? I think that would make a lot of sense.

Jason Concepcion: I think it makes a lot of sense. And certainly it is in line with Jane’s current status in Marvel comics now as as one of the famed warrior women, the Valkyrie. Yeah, I think that’s how they bring her, I think that would be how they do a lot of that makes sense. OK. Other questions for you. How does? So we don’t we don’t see gore at all, and we would assume that many of these. Gods are going to they’re going to shuffle off their deity coil, we’re going to see him go. Bye, my. Because gore is going to go crazy, release the God bomb and is going to kill a lot of gods are the guardians. You think in it the whole time, like, are they part of the fight the entire time? Or is Thor just kind of like on his own for the first, say, third of the movie hanging out until Jane is like, Hey, we need you back.

Rosie Knight: So I think it’s going to be the Guardians of the Galaxy kind of opening Thor doing his thing with them. I do think from toy stuff as always, which is how we get information about toys. I think the Guardians of the Galaxy will be relatively involved, but I think James Gunn recently said that the third movie would be like the last time we saw them as a team. So I think this is going to be more of a goodbye to them and a kind of launch pad for Jane because, you know, we’ve talked about this before, but in the Mark Waid or new or different Avengers, you had a team that was made up of Jane. Yeah. Thor Falcon and Captain America. Sam Wilson, Captain America Miles Morales, Viv, who is the Vision’s daughter, and also Kamala Khan. Yeah, very much the direction of where we’re going. So I think that there’s something really interesting in that. I also think the true reason I think gore is in this Tre’vell, I think that is going to be a very CG heavy character.

Jason Concepcion: Yeah. They may not have that.

Rosie Knight: And I think you need to get the post on that. Like, Yeah, now it literally banging.

Jason Concepcion: You got, you know.

Rosie Knight: So what I want to know?

Jason Concepcion: Yeah, let’s hear it.

Rosie Knight: It’s like. So they did this king in Black story recently.

Jason Concepcion: Of course.

Rosie Knight: Where they basically connected gore to like the symbiote, and.

Jason Concepcion: That was a big. That was a big big deal

Rosie Knight: And it was really big deal. And I wonder if there’s going to be something about the symbiote being left at the end of Spider-Man and that being connected to now and then giving the symbiote a more of a deep cosmic alien law than it originally has in the kind of classic Spider-Man comic.

Jason Concepcion: I would bet that that is like almost 100 percent now off of that. The Black Blade, the the weapon of the Black Knight, right? In the Thor comics, there is a gauze weapon is called the Necro Sword, which is kind of like this symbiote Black sword that when you know you stab a god with it and they just keel over and die. Very powerful, very deadly and absolutely diabolical. When we see the sword at the end of the Eternals, it has that kind of symbiote sheen where it kind of ripples and moves.

Rosie Knight: Yes.

Jason Concepcion: I wonder if I wonder if we’re going that way to where? Yes, of course, like the symbiote is related to gore. Somehow, they are of the same essence. And not only that, Dane Whitman sword is somehow maybe not the necro sword, but something related to it.

Rosie Knight: I wouldn’t be surprised because, like the authority in law very much leans into the mythology aspect of what they’re doing. And the Necro Sword is like this evil weapon. And the way that they’re representing the Ebony Blade in the movies definitely is closer towards the vision of it, where it drives you mad if you use it, and it has this kind of possession of you. So, yeah, I think there’s a lot of really interesting spaces there. And also the MCU is getting heavily into artifacts. I know it’s always been into artifacts because of the infinity gems, a.k.a. stones and like, but this feels very artifact heavy. So I wonder what the I wonder what the MacGuffin artifact is going to be here because we’ve already had them on their search. We’ve had the forging of Stormbreaker. I think that there’s going to be some kind of it could be the nexus or, you know, there’s going to be something that they have to find and we know that they really want to look to the comics in their star. There are scenes in the trailer that are taken directly from a sword remix in Thor God of Thunder. So I think like looking to those comics and specifically those two arcs, you’re going to get a really great primer for what you might be about to see in this film.

Jason Concepcion: One more question, do we see Hercules? Hercules, of course,

Rosie Knight: I think we see Hercules.

Jason Concepcion: Long, long running Avenger of Avenger for many years. Funnily enough, when you were talking, you talking about Eric Masterson Thunder strike that Thor of the 90s, who was not Thor or

Rosie Knight: extreme Thor

Jason Concepcion: extreme Thor. I always think about the the, you know, we talked about this arc a lot, but siege under siege. Roger Stern written, penned and sal the same, I think, art arc in which the Masters of Evil invade the Avengers mansion. But there’s a great part of that where so Eric Masterson is Thor at that time, but nobody nobody knows. So, like, every issue is like, you know, Captain America, say, Hey, Thor, oh buddy, we got to do something about those masters of evil. And then you’ll get the thought bubble where air passages like, if only I could tell them that I am not the Thor. They know I am Eric. Yeah, I that’s just something I thought about. So I have a clip from the trailer up here, and it appears you tell me it appears that when Jane shows up, she’s I’m just guessing. Certainly there on Earth, because I see cars, right? Mm hmm. And but it appears to be New Asgard, just judging from the style of the building. So is it like? New Asgard needed its protector, Thor is out in space, right? He gets the message he shows up. But guess what? We don’t need you because the Thor we already have. Our Thor was already like kicking ass down here, and we think it’s something

Rosie Knight: Definitely like dressed in, like ancient Grecian style Hercules. At least he’s got like a bear style robe. And I definitely think that there’s going to be some fun conflict in that space, but also like Thor is probably going to give her. I always knew, like when Cap picks it up, you know, he’s never going to be upset about it. He’s just going to be like, sad, that’s his ex-girlfriend and not his wife

Jason Concepcion: and my other, man, I dare say a new Asgard’s looking great. They got cruise ships now, and it’s a curious destination. Oh, this is. And finally, I guess here is whenever I think about Asgard on Earth, right? So in the comics, Asgard New Asgard is in Brockton, Oklahoma, of all places. Yeah, right. Like just hovering, just hovering above the plains, right? And then that becomes an issue because this was during the period of time in which Norman Osborn was like the leader of Earth’s security apparatus and of course, this villain, but pretending not to be a villain. And so one of the things he does, he lays siege to Asgard is this kind of like invading force on American soil, like why are you here? You shouldn’t be here, you have to leave. And if you don’t go, we’re going to make you leave. Man, I wonder if at some point in time when just thinking about seeing that kind of that like that, that, you know, negotiation underway with various parties kind of talking and then Valkyrie sitting there like at the head of the table, I wonder if we get to a place at some point where Norway’s like, you know what, this is like the this is just like causing a lot of problems. Could you please leave? And then we have the, you know, whatever the the inheritor to shield is saying, OK, we’re going to make you leave.

Rosie Knight: We know that. We know that a lot of or we hypothesize that a lot of what we’re seeing here is multiple teams. And that whole timeline is a is very huge in a in a villain dungeon master Avengers heroic team, you know. So I think that that’s incredibly likely that that is something we’ll see another future.

Jason Concepcion: Well, that was a super fun trailer. I can’t wait to. I can’t wait to see the movie. Let’s go to a quick mini Thor mailbag from a listener, Patrick Patrick asked in advance of Thor Love and Thunder, I want to get into the Jason Aaron Thor comics run researching along, and I was bit overwhelmed. Can you and Rosie do an essential reading on Absolutely, Rosie? Want to take it away?

Rosie Knight: Yes. So I think we’ll just we’ll start with where we started from, which is Thor God and Thunder. That is where we really established the journey that Thor is going to go on. You have Jason, Aaron Assad, Rybak, who they are literally just lifting stuff.

Jason Concepcion: I mean, his stuff was,

Rosie Knight: this comic issue three, he’s unbelievable.

Jason Concepcion: His stuff is unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Rosie Knight: Unbelievable. So that, I think, is a really key arc because that also will set up where we’re going to go when it comes to Jane, when it comes to why Thor wouldn’t be able to lift Mjolnir, why he may be lacking right in that space. And that is, I would say that there’s probably two comics that we’re talking about and that is going to be the first one and the second one is obviously going to be.

Jason Concepcion: 2014’s Thor one to eight with Russell Russell, Dalaman as the artist that continues, that is the introduction of Jane Foster as as the God of Thunder. And honestly, you can just read up from there. Yeah. Like if you want to continue, go there. But those are the two places start. Thor God of Thunder like one to 25 and then Thor one to about eight until Jane is revealed as Thor. But then you can just keep going. And then for extra credit, we mentioned Original Sin, Original Sin, the the crossover series, which is no I hate when they no stuff zero but fine numbered zero through eight, which is not necessarily directly. It doesn’t give you a lot of direct information, but it tells you why Sword doesn’t have the hammer anymore and and sets up how Jane gets it.

Rosie Knight: You get into the idea of an unworthy Thor. Also, the other thing about Thor God and Thunder, the God of Thunder that I didn’t really mention is like, You’re really going to learn about God. You’re going to learn about the God Butcher Ark, and you’re going to learn about the kind of horrible atrocities that we’re likely going to see against God. That in the episode, in the trailer, we see a still of a giant kind of mountainous white animal God and Thor looks upon it, sadly, and that’s taken directly from Thor God of Thunder Issue three, and it’s all driven. It’s incredible. And Jason’s work and it said, I knew that God, that’s what Thor says. So you can get the notion that Thor is essentially going to be on this journey of self-discovery that gets derailed by core. Killing a lot of guards and then somebody being like, Oh, it’s probably bad for you because you’re a God. Or bad for Jane. So then Tom is going to have to get involved.

Jason Concepcion: Right. Well, that’ll that should hold you over. Those two arcs are just super great. And also, again, if you just want to start at anything that has Jason Aaron is the writer that is Thor to start at Thor God of Thunder one and keep going and you cannot go wrong. And those comics are linked in the listeners guide in our show Nuts. Up next, our recap of Moon Knight Episode four The Tomb.

[AD].

Moon Knight Episode 4: Of the Tomb, which is a mini sequel to The Mummy, written by Alex Meaning Peter Cameron and Xavier Pirzada, directed by Aaron Moorhead, Justin Benson. Here we go. We are back in the Great Pyramid of Giza. Khonshu’s statue is placed in a little cubby in the wall of the tomb alongside several other cubbies, each containing their own statue. And we would assume right each little figurine containing the essence of whatever God that it represents there. Ostensibly, or at least, we should assume trapped in those little figurines in the desert right after Steven and Khonshu, you have done their turn back the star spell. Layla is trying to rouse Steven. A vehicle appears indifferent in the distance, drives up real quick and starts shooting at Layla and Steven. And Steven. Just laying in the Sandys out, Layla manages to draw the mercenaries away, setting off a cache of ammunition, taking out the mercenaries, and then she and Steven Escape. Layla and Steven then head off to find Arthur, a hero in the tomb of Ahmed Layla wants is like, Can you get Mark? Like, I think Mark is really the more action oriented guy. Like when we need to read the hieroglyphs, Steven, then you can come back. But right now we need we need a guy who can like, fight and will the gun so Gideon mark and seems like nods. No, here is a deal I had with Mark, Mark said. Once the debt with Con, she was paid he would leave and then the body is mine. And I, from my perspective, that’s where we are. Meanwhile, in the side mirror reflection mark is like Steven. Shut up, give me the body, Layla and Mark transit through a narrow canyon and they arrive at Ahmed’s tomb. The camp around it, Arthur Arthur Hedgerows People’s Campus is abandoned. Mark is all the while talking to Steven in his head. He’s like, Steven, listen, this is going to be really dangerous. There’s no control anymore. You don’t have the suit. No power, no healing, no protection. You’ve got to be careful. Like, at least for Layla sake, because you know, Harry wants to make her, you know, certainly wants to, like, kill her or harm her some way. Make her country’s new avatar. Meanwhile, countries not around Stevens like, don’t worry, I got it under control. Layla and I are a team, in fact, and we’re flirting a little bit. So take that mark and mark is jealous and honestly, rightfully so, right? And Ben, the sparks start going. This must be very confusing for Layla because it’s her husband, but it’s not her husband. They’re flirting.

Rosie Knight: I’m not a fan. I feel like Steven doesn’t have good boundaries.

Jason Concepcion: I know it’s go to DeRay. I agree. Steven, like this is not. Don’t do this anyway for not apropos anyway. Leila and Steven Kiss Steven then tells her that Listen, Mark is in probably Steven’s most moral and best and honest moment here. Basically says everything that Mark has been telling her, Listen, Mark’s worried about you because of the danger, because she wants you as his avatar. All that kind of stuff. You know what a bad deal that is to be conscious, avatar. She’s like, You know, why are you telling me this? And also, like, I don’t need your protection. Mark’s protection, like I can take care of myself. What I need is like someone to just tell me the honest truth and not hide stuff from me. And then she and Steven kiss Layla starts down the well into Ahmed’s tomb, then hilariously like the body containing Steven and Mark, like Steven, just like punches himself in the face. It’s unclear if it’s Mark or whoever that’s doing this, but then it and then the body just like throws itself down the well in the well. There are a bunch of hieroglyphs, and you know, Steven is going crazy because this is like everything he’s ever dreamed of. We learn through these scenes that Lila’s father was once an archeologist. He explored this tomb, and we learn also that he died doing the things he loved Egyptology. And clearly, Leila is heartbroken by this. She’s shattered by this, but she’s trying to kind of play it off. And then she and Steven, go down to the lower levels of the tomb, which is an absolute maze. The whole structure of Steven figures out is a symbol. It’s the eye of Horus. Steven then unravels the mystery of the maze. There are six branching hallways off. Those correspond each to a deity, and they work out that this means somehow through a method that I couldn’t quite follow, but that they knew very well that the avatar of Ahmed is the God’s voice. Right? They come to an ancient gallery in which several royal sorcerers are entombed. Little Marvel magic sprinkling in there. Steven notices fresh blood and meaty bits on the altar. So also, a lot of skeletons and bloody drag marks around this is very, very freaky. Suddenly, they hear gunshots. They hide and like, a mummy is there a mummy shows up and proceeds to disembowel like the carcass of like some explorer guy as Leila and Steven look on. Leila tries to sneak away with The Mummy here, sir. There’s a big mummy fight, and Steven ends up crushing The Mummy. But Leila and Steven are now separated. Leila goes full like Tomb Raider, uncharted video game platformer like holding on to ledges, jumping from side to side a mummy. The same mummy or a mummy perhaps grabs Leila. She fights it off, stabs it with its own arm bone, and then hurls it down a very, very, very, very deep hole. And after this, after she is like desperate with pain and frustration. She sees Arthur Harrow across this stretch of broken tomb. Steven, meanwhile, finds himself in this in the sarcophagus room, this brilliant sarcophagus room. Mark is talking to him. He’s like, Hey, why did you kiss my wife? But, but but that was fucked up, but also thank you for telling Leila the truth about all the things that I wasn’t able to tell her. So that was nice. Even though you did again, kiss my wife. Steven then discovers a sarcophagus, which he quickly discerned belongs to Alexander the Great, who I guess was the the avatar of a vomit of Ahmed. Wow, wow. It is big news, folks.

Rosie Knight: Famously lost, famously lost tomb. It’s been found.

Jason Concepcion: We found it. How did Alexander the Great conquer all of the known world? Basically, because he had he had Ahmed on his side. Layla and Harrow talk it out. She is like, You’re a dick. You’re condescending. Also, you want to mass murder. Harrow is like, You know what? Your father, Abdullah Al Fowlie, one of Egypt’s most unique archeologists, is probably proud of you if he could see you now. And guess what, Leila? Your father’s theory that the ancient Egyptian gods walk on the Earth among human beings right now is correct. You proved it correct, and you should be proud of that. And then Harrow then reveals that how he judges people with the scales and with his little cane, he is able to read their moments of sin and pain and understand what their moral worth is. And he says, Your husband, he is in agony. More pain than any woman can bear. This means Mark, of course. And this suggests that how a red mark scales and he knows all the stuff that Mark has been hiding from Layla. Meanwhile, in the sarcophagus room, Steven is arguing with Mark once again. He, you know, slides that the lid off the sarcophagus we see The Mummy of Alexander the Great. We see several golden artifacts in there, but they don’t see the shoddy little figurine, right that we saw that locks that country was trapped in in that surely Ahmed is trapped and where is it? We’re going to be? Steven figures it out. It’s in the throat or stomach inside, basically the carcass of Alexander the Great, and he reaches in Alexander the Great Mouth and he pulls it out. Meanwhile, while this is going on heroines like Layla, I got some big news for you. Your father was murdered by mercenaries, and guess who is there? Guess guess who your husband Mark was there and she’s like, No, I don’t believe you. But it’s clear that she is shaken. And then she goes to leave. Layla finds Steven in the in the sarcophagus room as he’s holding the sharp of of Ahmed, and she’s like, Give me Mark. Put Mark on the phone, Steven. I don’t want to even fucking talk to you. Put Mark on. Hey, what happened to my dad? What happened? Mark takes control. The body’s like, Oh, you know what? Let’s talk about this later. We really need to go because like, are there? Harry’s mercenaries may kill us, and we will talk about the whole thing about how I maybe murdered your father. OK, here’s what happened. I didn’t murder him. Yes, I was there. And it was my partner that killed him, not me. Sorry about that. He also shot me per se and I should have died, but I didn’t. And then he’s like, I should have told you earlier. Yes. By the way, Mark, you should have done that. But I didn’t. And then Harrow’s henches arrive. Mark grabs an ax to hold them off. He’s like, Layla, get out of here. Harrow is like, Listen, Khonshu’s gone now? Right? So why are you even doing this? Like, you’re you’re at peace. Just enjoy that with freedom comes agency. You can make a choice right now. You have to choose violence. That said, even though Khonshu was gone, Mark and Steven are still sharing the same body. So something is amiss, right? Something else is happening, even if it’s not directly Khonshu related. And Mark is like, You know what? I choose violence, and he kills two of Arthur Harrow’s henchies and then Arthur Harow shoots mark. Mark falls to the ground. Once again, he has been mortally wounded inside an Egyptian tomb. How many times can that happen? What are the odds that this happens to the same guy and this time he dies? All of a sudden we’re looking at 1980s film stock. We’re looking at a VHS tape of an explorer and a teenage boy exploring some Aztec jungles where getting an Indiana Jones vibe. They’re looking for treasure. The explorer is named Dr. Steven Grant. Well, when we zoom out and this VHS tape is being watched in a mental hospital as a common room of a mental hospital and all of a sudden bang, we know that we’re in the Jeff Lohmeier, Greg Small Hood Moon Knight Run. There are some other artists involved in there, but those are the primary creators. Crawley is there, his his friend, the street performer who’s now speaking and running a bingo game. Layla’s there is a fellow patient, of course. Steven Slash mark is there in a wheelchair, drugged to the absolute fucking neck, shackled to his chair just like he is in his apartment. He sees a small Moon Knight action figure on the floor, and the manager of this facility is Arthur Harow. Arthur corking, shocking stuff called Steven and Mark. Well, has Steven slash mark wheeled into his office and he’s like, Listen, let’s talk about this tune Buster VHS that you love watching. Do you think it’s weird that, like all the stuff that you say happened to you, is like the plot of to muster? And listen, I’m sorry we had to sedate you, but like, that’s for your own safety. All I want from you. Arthur says it is an honest assessment of your situation, meanwhile. Steve is looking around and like all the detailing, yes, it’s a mental hospital, all in white, you know, and a nicely modern appointed office. But all of the detailing is like Egyptian star scarabs, little little Egyptian figurines, all of that. So everything of that about that is reminding of Steven of what? And Steven doesn’t know. But whenever, whenever Arthur asks Mark about Steven, Steven reacts aggressively is with Arthur tells them, and he’s like, I can’t help you if you can’t help yourself. Mark, then all of a sudden remember his way of saying, The guy that shot me, you killed me. The reason I’m here is because you shot me dead. I’m out of here. He then makes a run for it. Arthur is all the while promising mark that. Like this and we can heal your mental wounds. Yada yada yada. Mark is not hearing any of it. He fights off a couple of at least goes fleeing. He finds a room in which he finds a sarcophagus that with the head with the lid, is like shaking someone’s inside of it. He pushes the lid off and Steven is inside. Now, Mark and Steven are face to face. This is crazy stuff. The last thing they both remember is being shot by Arthur Harold. They then run for it. They find another sarcophagus in another room, someone struggling to get out. They leave this one behind. Now recall Rosie and I had spoken earlier about the previous episode in which Mark was losing time and and Steven was not the other personality in the body. So who was the personality that was in the body? Probably whoever is in that sarcophagus? They did not open, right? They then continue to run for it. A door opens and it is the Egyptian God, Tara. What a hippo deity who says, hi, and then they scream, and we end. And then it’s our episode. Your thoughts on this episode, which again, is, Is this going on? I got the gist of it. Yeah, yeah. A lot going on.

Rosie Knight: Very The Mummy.

Jason Concepcion: Very The Mummy. Its basically The Mummy.

Rosie Knight: It’s basically The Mummy. And then you add in the Jeff Lemire stuff. Yeah, I reread the it was Jeff Lemire and Greg Smallwood who started the arc. And then there’s just like a ton of other brilliant artists, yes, who come in to basically represent different parts of the personality like James Stoker. Does this unreal storyline in space? Yeah, Frank of VR does this kind of noir ish Jake Lockley stuff, so it’s really a brilliant arc. I I don’t personally love. I find that I have a personal struggle with like the way that mental health stuff is represented on TV. And this to me, leaned a little bit too heavy into the like One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest of it all in the tone. But the the story is taking from is actually incredibly thoughtful and complex, and that gives me a lot of hope for where we might be going with this exploration because like, I reread that whole arc after rewatching this episode and I was just like, Wow, like, there’s so much interesting stuff there. There’s all these notions about like, what’s real, what’s not real? The aspect of unreliable narrator, but also there’s kind of this like incredible journey of self-acceptance. Yeah. Mark goes on, where really whatever’s real is just what matters is like, what’s real to him? It doesn’t matter what society thinks or or what con she’s doing. So I’m I’m very interested to see where that goes, especially because this feels like a lot to deal with in two episodes.

Jason Concepcion: I don’t know how they’re going to do it. And I we were talking in pre pro. I think that it is very intentional that. We’re going into a Thor movie that deals heavily with gods, right, and and the murder of many, many gods. Yeah. And to lead us into that on on TV, we’ve got this Moon Knight show dealing with Egyptian deities. Mm-Hmm. And certainly with two episodes left, it’s unclear that we’re going to have closure on that. So I wonder how much of this leads into Thor Love and Thunder. One of my followers on Twitter was like, would not be surprised if if, like all the gods minus Thor, you know, and maybe and Hercules are wiped out, except for Concha, who survives because he’s trapped in that little figurine that could be that could be a thing.

Rosie Knight: I think that’s really interesting, and I definitely feel like this show so far has been like surprisingly standalone. Yeah. So I think that I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the things that go into Thor Love and Thunder aren’t necessarily like Moon Knight himself, but are the notion of the Egyptian gods in the end that any ad that’s been set up. Also something I think I’ll be really interested to see if they do as we go further into the the last two episodes is in the comic. And this could count as a spoiler if you don’t want to know what happens in the comic that they might draw from, but I think it’s really interesting. So is the notion of where the comic is like, is it a limbo? Is it in the other void which we touched on with the last episode? Because Country mentions the other void, which is kind of the cosmic home of the gods, so I’ll be really interested to see. I understand that the show likely wants people to think like, Oh, has Steven been in there the whole time? But A. y or iPad, the hippo had a God turning up. That kind of hints that this is not where he’s been. This is more of a we see him fall through the water. One of my colleagues at Nerdist, Ro is just so brilliant mentioned, you know, that is very much through many different cultures, a space of going through the veil and limbo from and we’ve seen him be shot. So is this a space, a psychological space? Is this a multiverse or space like we talked about? Is this a hub? Is this something that conscious set up as a trap because country wants to take that control back over Steven and Mark? There is a if I was to guess what was going to happen next episode. Yeah, I don’t know whether how they’re going to go with the cosmic stuff, but something that happens early on in that Jeff Lemaire arc is like a prison break. Yeah. Where Steven and his friends from around the world, Frenchie Jena, the people he knows in real life. Yeah, they who are now patients, they break out of the hospital. And I think we could definitely see that because when we go into that hospital, there is Layla. There’s back, there’s a forger as crawly. There’s one of the avatars is in there as a patient, Billy and Bobby, who have the same name as the the orderlies in the comic, who were the cops who were then ofa heroes kind of hunches. They are there as doctors. This is everyone that we’ve seen. It’s a Wizard of Oz scenario. So I think that we’ll likely see something that’s kind of a mixture between a some kind of prison break out of this kind of the strange hospital location mixed with flashbacks that give us a bit more insight into where Mark and Steven came together.

Jason Concepcion: Let me ask you this Where do you think they are because you’ve been in this comic arc? Honshu is not countries basically around like. Yeah, it is is part of what’s driving this like like limbo ask. A collision of realities, countries not on the border right now, so I wonder. Where exactly Mark and Steven are?

Rosie Knight: I’m going to just throw out something outrageous just because I do think something that we’ve been talking about a lot fits in there like why if this is some nightmare world, like what is this is the nightmare of us, every single marvel thing at the moment. Wanda and Doctor Strange In that last trailer, they said, I have the same dream every night. The first thing we ever heard Oscar Isaac say in his own mystery humor dad voice was I can’t tell the difference between my waking life and my dream, right? Like the notion of like a dream space and a dream space being something that is not calming or good. It’s being something that’s terrible and chaotic. That seems to be a theme here. So maybe that’s a different God who’s in charge of it? Perhaps it’s Ahmet because he got too close. That would be a big change, but it is another thing that was directly taken from the Jack Lemaire stuff because there. The it’s not off the harrow, who’s the doctor, it’s Dr Emmett who is potentially doctor is potentially a kind of avatar or representation on Earth. So I think there’s just a lot of interesting stuff. So big question I want to ask you is like, yeah, who who do you think’s in that final sarcophagus? Because we know there’s another one. So they let two people out. Mark is there. He let Steven out the sarcophagus. And then. Where all the other way around, but like and then we see that third sarcophagus where someone’s inside it, like, who is that personality?

Jason Concepcion: It’s well, listen, it’s either Jake Lockley, right? Who we haven’t seen yet or it is the. I mean, like left left field pitch, it is. Some version of the comics character variation of Midnight Inner Child or whoever, the Moon Knight that will actually play Moon Knight in the, you know, because it’s unclear to me that Oscar Isaac will come back as Moon Knight.

Rosie Knight: Definitely.

Jason Concepcion: And it is like I would say that I’m 88 percent sure that this is not taking place in standard six one six MCU because

Rosie Knight: Well I think this hospital will be really good for establishing that. Yeah, that we’ll work out everything kind of the wider context of the world.

Jason Concepcion: Like, I guess there’s a world in which this is taking place, like before the appearance of the Avengers, say, or the Qatari invasion. You know, we don’t we? That’s the other thing we don’t know exactly like when it’s happening. And so but it feels like standard, you know, Marvel storytelling is. If you’re posting Snap posts blip that is impacting the story in some way, we don’t get any kind of hint that that occurred. So either this is going on in a world before all that happened and we’re in the standard timeline or we’re in some other reality where that didn’t happen or didn’t happen in the way that it happened in the standard reality. So I think that there is I think that if Marvel wants Moon Knight to be part of their storytelling going forward, whoever is in that coffin is going to be the Moon Knight who is in the stories going forward.

Rosie Knight: I think that’s a really good cause. And the other thing

Jason Concepcion: that you see, what do you think is in there? What do you think, isn’t it?

Rosie Knight: So I think, you know, I think it’s whatever this this more violent persona is that we’re supposed to assume is in that it wouldn’t really align with the comics for that to be Jake Lockley, but they’ve changed a lot of stuff. I also wonder if it’s I think if they’re going to commit to the DID storyline and actually explore it, then episode five could fit into the tradition of prestige TV, where the fifth episode is the exposition in history episode. And then that you have the inner child character in that and you learn why Steven has the idea of what the, well, what the trauma was. But the other big question I have just before we finish my talk is like, this is the first time at all in the whole show that they have alluded to Raoul Bushman. Yeah, who we know in the comics very generally problematic. Even the Jeff Lemaire stuff. Not great in the way that they represent Brad Bushman, who was Mark’s mercenary partner who committed the murders of, in the comics, Marlene’s father, who here they’ve kind of replicated that he alludes to that here and to. Well, and I wonder if it will just be an illusion or is that going to be a character who comes in to play as we get into those final two episodes because they are a key antagonist?

Jason Concepcion: I think we will see that character. I think that we will see them. So the way this arc, the Lemire arc ends in the comics, we would need like five more episodes

Rosie Knight: I tried to write about it it was an Easter eggs piece. And I was like, Nope, we can’t do it

Jason Concepcion: We need five more episodes. So where do you think? What do you think this goes? Because I’ll say with with two episodes left and I love what you said about Nightmare and our ongoing series, that nightmare is actually the big bad multiverse of Madness. And that would make sense. Now we’re kind of going in two directions, right? A lead into Multiverse of Madness, leading to Thor Love and Thunder with the introduction of gods who are not the Norse gods. Yeah, I it feels like with two episodes left. This is like it has to be a lead in to the movies play because I don’t know how they resolve all of this stuff. I don’t know how. Where do we go? Where? How are we landing this?

Rosie Knight: So firstly, something that they did at the end of this episode, I think is really important. Where we’re going is they thanked the two create is of the scarlet scarab, which is who is Roy Thomas and Frank Robins. Scarlet Scarab first debuted an event in Vegas 23. I would not recommend that issue has lots of problems, but. That is definitely a confirmation that Lila’s dad and Layla were impacted by that character and could potentially take on. I think that character may be a mantle that we see because they don’t tend to do thanks in the credits unless it’s a mantle or like a really key story arc. So something I think is really interesting is, is you going to get their wish? And Leila will become Moon Knight. Will Lila become a version of Mark’s other famous ex-girlfriend, Scala, who is this kind of anti-hero villainous? Will she become the Scarlet Knight, the moon scarab? You know, scarlet scarab? I think the fact that we see Mark and Steven as two separate entities mean we will get a version of the scene in the Jack Lemmon. Greg Smallwood stuff where they sit down and essentially have like a family therapy where they’re like Steven and is like, You guys don’t exist. I created you, right? Because, well, Mark says that to them, he’s like, I created you because I’m an all, you know, I’ve got these problems, blah blah blah. I don’t think that’s going to be what happens, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that is how they come to terms with Mark’s. Steven not having control anymore. You know, some kind of self-acceptance journey. But I honestly, if this had four episodes left, I’d be like, I can see a vision. Yeah, two, 45 to 50 minutes.

Jason Concepcion: It’s going to be really crazy.

Rosie Knight: It’s going to be. I think a lot is going to happen because like, you make a good point, this is a mythological. Genocide, essentially on a level of like vandals, yeah, probably worse. Yeah. Because if you’re judging people, it’s incredibly subjective. It’s not a 50 50 split, you know? And nobody’s nobody’s bothered about it, either. Revenge is like, there’s no way. Naturally, as I have pointed out many times, he literally walks like 15 minutes away from the tunnels, like from Dane Whitman, like Blade is wandering around London, offering up people to be in a team of some kind, and he’s just chillin. So like, yeah, I want to. I want to know where this goes and why is there some kind of like DarkSide? Ask like Palpatine, right magic that somebody is using to stop people from knowing what’s going on? I don’t know. They’ve got a lot of questions to answer.

Jason Concepcion: Do you think this takes place in the standard quote unquote six one six reality?

Rosie Knight: So I’m a big believer that my gut feeling and what the storytelling has told me would say no, but I did see that I think I’m one of the episodes somebody saw like a Jazzi advert on a bus, which was like reconnecting you with your love.

Jason Concepcion: Yeah.

Rosie Knight: But at the same time, like all of the notion that we’re supposed to know right now is all of that first four episodes is essentially in question. So I don’t necessarily think that adds an answer. I want to know how, unless this is just a hilarious thing where it’s like, Well, they’re in London. So the Avengers wouldn’t go there because they’re in America, because otherwise I’m like, What’s going on, man? Steven is not the one. If he didn’t have Layla, he would be fucked like she is the hero. Yeah.

Jason Concepcion: Well, I can’t wait to see where this goes. Pretty fascinating stuff. The last two episodes were my favorite episodes so far. Can’t wait to get back into it. Up next, we’ll be diving back into WandaVision.

Jason Concepcion: [AD].

Jason Concepcion: Alright, we’re stepping out of the airlock and into the idyllic streets of Westview, New Jersey, what a wonderful town. Plus it looks lovely, plucked directly from the 1950s American esthetic. But of course, the town exists wholly because Wanda Maximoff decides that it should exist. So it is time with Multiverse of Madness on the horizon to dove into the ramifications of the Disney Plus series. WandaVision part of the conversation that has been going around my my ex colleague Joe me over The Ringer is partially been talking about. This is like, how much are the shows the Disney Plus shows going to influence what happens in the movies and how much are they expecting people to know about them? I think it’s up for debate. I think it’s, you know, if you read comics like us, it’s very much like the tie in issues. It’s like when a big crossover event happens, right? You combine seven issues, right? And you don’t really need to buy like, you know, X-Men siege, you know, the tie in. But you can if you want to know how they’re dealing with it. And I feel like the Disney Plus shows are kind of like that, like, you don’t need it, but you can find out about it, and it’s got important information. That said, it feels like there is no way around WandaVision and the events of WandaVision being really, really important to Multiverse of Madness, certainly. And in just the level up that Wanda has undergone in power and the general like turmoil emotionally that she has gone through.

Rosie Knight: Yeah, I think as well, like it’s it’s about I think the bigger the real question is like, how will all of them affect it? Because it’s obvious in this case in the Oh, how will they affect it going forward? Because it’s obvious in the case of like, what if that that is like the episode four, especially that is obviously a huge impact on now, whether it was what if came first and then, you know, Disney was inspired by it or if the impact was an editorial edict from, you know, the 5G side where it was like, We need you to introduce these times characters like Gorgon, Toshiya McGrath and ideas of an evil Doctor Strange who’s corrupted. I think in a way, those shows are like to seed casual viewers. And also, I wouldn’t be surprised. This would make a lot of sense if just before Dr. Strange comes out in the next week or maybe afterwards, they put like a Disney suggested watching. I guess they’re going to do it like that where they’re more curating it. But also, people will go and see those movies even if they don’t know anything about it, you know?

Jason Concepcion: Let’s do a quick recap of the series. So the series, it follows the events that go on in Westfield, New Jersey, through the lens of the television sitcom The American television sitcoms through the years through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, all the way up to the 2000s. And these creations are a manifestation of Wanda’s love of the form we. We later learned that as a child in Sokovia, her and her family would gather around as that the country was wracked by war and and upset, and they would bond over these sitcoms that they loved so much. So some of the big things that happen over the course of the series are one Wanda has a relationship with with her husband, Vision, who we know died in the movie. So, yeah, part of the ongoing mystery is How can Vision be here? What is he exactly and what is going on in this town that is changing? We have the appearance of a new government agency, Sword, the Sentient Weapons Observation and Response Division, which is studying the body of this once sentient supercomputer named division. And then all the while threaded in throughout the story is Wanda envisions neighbor Agatha, who is mysterious and seemingly not involved in any of the high jinks that are going on. Meanwhile, outside of this hex or globe that is of a reality created by Wanda that encompasses thousands of people we later learned who are involved in this like mass unreality delusion. Sword is studying what’s going on there, too, trying to figure out what’s going on there. And one of the agents that is involved in that is Monica Rambeau, who through going into the Hex develops, we think, through going. In there develops powers that are in line with her comics powers as the superhero photon as the story progresses, Wanda gives birth to two children a billion Tommy who are completely creations of her psyche. She has her showdown with Agatha, who we learn is an ancient witch and who recognizes Wanda as the legendary Scarlet Witch. The first time we hear that term, the Scarlet Witch, who apparently is the magical being who is prophesied to end the world. Big news as we head into the Multiverse of Madness wanted to feature the mass unreality delusion is banished. We learn that there are scrolls hanging out in sword they want, and they want Monica to come to space to go hang out with a person that we assume is Nick Fury to talk about. Like, what happens next? And then Wanda walks off into the wilderness to, we assume, meet us again in Multiverse of Madness. OK, let’s talk about some takeaways from this. From this show that are worth certainly worth talking about are things that we think are going to be appearing in Multiverse Madness. First of all, let’s talk about Sword, the cente and weapons observation response division. I’ve said numerous times, I think this is going to be. I think the research they’re doing is a precursor to the Sentinel program right now. I think the director Hayward, who is certainly like a guy who seems like he has animus against Wanda specifically and Vision tangentially is emotional in a way about powered people and about Wanda that would suggest that he would have no problem like developing a sentient like robot that would go out and kill, yeah, powered people.

Rosie Knight: We I mean, when when that the episode where we learn about Monica’s. Monica’s experience with the Black, where we learned that her mother, Maria, was a founding member of SWAT, and in that episode, Haywood takes her through sword and through that kind of aircraft hangar and they are building giant robots. We can see that they are building these giant things. These giant creations and the notion of them being sentient would tie in to the Sentinels, who can find and and destroy mutants. And something that directly connects into that from this series is that one of the biggest things that we learn is one that did not get, they reckon the idea that Wanda got her powers. That’s been through Hydra experiments. They reveal that as a kid, Wanda used her powers, a.k.a. unknowingly cast a hex to stop the bomb from blowing up and killing her. And her brother that we see as kids.

Jason Concepcion: This is important because before this, there were basically two ways to get powers as a human being right in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The first was some sort of experiment or accident or experimental accident, and you get bit by a radioactive spider. You know, you get injected with super soldier steroids. So, you know, you create a suit of power, you know, like something like that. And then there is the magical element, which is more of a learned which is, well, right. You can be born a God or like Doctor Strange, you can learn a skill that allows you to wield magic, right? Which we assume is like Agatha. And I guess there’s a world in which you could say potentially what is like that, but we haven’t seen yet is people who are born with powers who were not part of a of an experiment who just. Had them and develop them for whatever reason, and we think that certainly what this series revealed is that Wanda is one of those people who was just born with power, who we call mutants.

Rosie Knight: Wanda is a kid who, when she was prepubescent going into puberty, was in an incredibly stressful situation arc about to be blown up by a bomb. And then her powers manifested. That, my friends, is called the X-Men. That’s a story of every X-Men, every mutant. That is how it happens. So we’re now living in a world post this where we not only have our first hero who was born with powers, seemingly Wanda, but also Monica Rambeau is actually like one of the few heroes who chose to get her powers. She walks through that hex, right? Absolute choice of self-sacrifice. She is not doing it like Steve Rogers did, where he wanted to, like, save his country and become a hero. She is doing it because she cares about Wanda, and she feels like she’s doing the right thing. And then she manifests these. If it’s anything like the comics extremely powerful powers that will see more of in the Marvel, so that’s another way that we know these shows are going to have a long term impact. So, yeah. And also these books, it’s important to say that this series takes incredibly heavily from. Two old comic book series called The Vision and the Scarlet Witch and then Vision and the Scarlet Witch.

Jason Concepcion: Yeah, one is a four issue limited series. The other is ran for 12 issues.

Rosie Knight: Yes, of course, and the four issue one by Bill Mantello and Rick Leonardi. That story is where they introduced the notion that Magneto is the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, something a part of their history that is alluded to a lot in this show. They never say Magneto, but they have Easter eggs to Bova, the magical cow person who raised them in the Comics Bay at the end, where we see Wanda studying the Darkhold, which is this book of chaos magic that has a lot of connections to the elder gods and all these different parts of the MCU and will likely be a large part of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. She is likely in Mount Wondergoal, which is where she was raised as a child. So there is a lot of this mutant X-Men. Notion of naturally powered people being established alongside, as you say, a government fueled and paid for animus against powered people, which we have talked about a lot is not something that exists in the MCU.

Jason Concepcion: It is not something that is is and is something they would have to essentially import to get all the kind of like. Emotional impact of what the X-Men represent in the comics onto the screen, also other mutant slash X-Men ties they literally bring in yes, it’s. Yes. As Ralph Boner, the neighbor.

Rosie Knight: This is so fun though.

Jason Concepcion: But they literally, you know, in Darcy’s immortal words, they recast Pietro. They bring in Pietro Quicksilver from the X-Men movies. Into this MCU Disney property for the first time, like underlining that connection, Wanda and mutants her connection to the mutant community, her role in the mutant community, the fact that like she is part of a blue blooded mutant family in the comic books. This even though it essentially ends in a fake out when we discover that this person is a Kree is like a Wanda reality melted creation that is that uses the body. Yeah, it’s right. Puppeteer by Agatha and used by Ralph Bohner. What is interesting is if you’re following along with like the multiverse, all like kind of implications. Where where would this? Visage of Pietro comefrom like, right, right? That’s the thing, it’s it’s not just like a relic. Yes, it’s right. It is still. The quicksilver from the X-Men universe, like so that is telling you, these mutants exist somewhere in a multiverse that is now connected to this one.

Rosie Knight: And also speaking about the multiverse. All stuff that brilliant moment I love. I love the final moment of this series, the stinger with Wonder and Cheetah sitting with the Hex Magic and the dark cold. And she’s looking through it and our eyes are kind of wandering through all these different realities. And in that final moment, we hear the voices of her kids who shouldn’t exist, right? You don’t exist, do not exist. Just like in the comics, the kids were basically a manifestation of something she wished she could have with vision. And by the end of the show, she has to say goodbye to them. She has to say goodbye to one vision of vision, though another important thing that happens in the show is the reconstructed body of vision that is created by Sauter called gray vision or white vision. Depending on your canon, he appears which what establishes that there is another vision in the MCU who can be a part of Wanda’s life in the future and has had a long comic book history? The pair of them together

Jason Concepcion: more implications and just a kind of like, you know, this entire series is is a is an exploration of how incredibly powerful and reality shifting. What has become a part of that is she creates, as you say, her children just out of her own want and need to be a mother, right? And her incredible power to shape reality. But she also creates her husband vision like in the same exact way and like, Okay, you’re thinking they’re magic. They’re not, quote unquote real vision. Then who is again a complete creation of Wanda downloads his memories into his old body, the white vision body, and repopulate those memories, which were stored, recreated, like kept somehow by Wanda and her abilities.

Rosie Knight: I know that people know that we love the X-Men, so he keeps coming back to that. But let’s just say this is a woman who famously in the comics said no more mutants during House of M erased most apart from like 118 mutants or something. And in this show, they established the notion that not only can she control people right, but she can create massively powered people out of nothing but her imagination. Absolutely. They exist within this bubble universe. But that does not mean to say that now she has a dark mode, which is like the most powerful magical artifact in that in the Marvel Comics Universe at some points. There is not a reason why she couldn’t do that on a on a larger scale, why she could not be the one to bestow powers upon people. I mean, her kids, we’ve said this before key parts of the young Avengers. We will likely see them come again because truly one of the major conflicts we can assume that will play into Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. And another reason WandaVision is so important is Wanda will likely be looking for her kids. She wants the babies back. She wants them. She wants her family back together, and Billy and Tommy are the core of that. And in the comics, Billy and told me have long been a way that has they’ve been a thing that has both represented and been the cause of Wanda’s trauma. Wanda having like mental breakdowns, Wanda being manipulated by Mephisto. And that is probably why she’s messing around to the point of creating problems. The reality is that when we meet them again and if we meet them in the Multiverse of Madness or if we meet them later, they will be teenagers. They will be from a different reality where they have grown up so they can join. Kate Bishop and Kamala Khan and whoever else that they’re going to end up putting in the young Avengers team. So it’s kind of funny because I WandaVision is after a year and a half of this kind of Marvel TV experiment. It’s definitely my favorite show from the shows.

Jason Concepcion: It’s heartbreaking and amazing.

Rosie Knight: It draws so much from the comics.

Jason Concepcion: It draws So and some of the best like. Here’s the thing that I love about Vision and the Scarlet Witch, the limited series in the series, right? You know, and I’ve said this before, but on the set again. We usually think of like superhero stories. It’s like this hero’s journey to like you are bestowed powers. A character is it gets powers and through that journey, learns how to tame them, learns how to be responsible wheeler of his powers and is forever changed, right? WandaVision, the show and Vision and the Scarlet Witch are like a reversal of that. You have these people that have already done the hero’s journey already, but they but it speaks to like a a real yearning that people have just like go beyond, like being special and having powers. You want to feel special, but you also want to be accepted, like they just want to live in a regular neighborhood and have a family like everybody else and and exist in a neighborhood like everybody else with happy neighbors who like them.

Rosie Knight: Just be in love and be be happy. And it’s so smart to take the notion of like superheroes in suburbia and obviously, like later on. You know, Tom King and Gabrielle Walter would do that vision series, which has some dodgy racist stuff in there, actually, which is a shame, but generally I always I remember when that book came out, everyone was like, Wow, this is like amazing. But but actually like and it’s great. I mean, especially the ah, and Michael Walsh does an issue that is just unreal. That kind of recap Scarlet Witch and Vision’s relationship, but it’s so funny because it’s basically just a retread of what they did in this, which happens a lot in comics. Yeah, but yeah, that that series is so brilliant, and I feel like this show did such a great job. Of bringing the first three episodes, you know, they had to release them all at the same time because they needed people to understand what was going on. It’s superheroes in suburbia, superheroes in a sitcom. But then you get to that issue for and it’s just blows everything up. And suddenly it’s like, here’s the Black. Here’s the characters that you’re going to need to know this show. I think it’s safe to say we’ll have the most impact, whether that will continue past Multiverse of Madness. I would say that if you want to know what’s going on in that movie, it’s worth rewatching the show or watching it for the first time.

Jason Concepcion: Let me ask you quickly about the Stingers. So in the stinger of then, after the finale of the series, right, we we go to some what appears to be like an Alaskan wilderness somewhere in the northern reaches of Canada, right? It legitimately looks like the cabin that that Bruce Banner holds up in at the end of the MCU.

Rosie Knight: The captain from Evil Dead and the swooping shots look like The Shining. There’s like so much great stuff in that, like 30 seconds.

Jason Concepcion: But, you know, much like Thanos having completed his work, Wanda is sitting, you know, having a cup of tea on the porch goes inside, right? I guess, to get more tea. And then the camera kind of continues into the bedroom where we see the Scarlet Witch paging through the dark looking for kids. Did she make? Like, listen, you’re a busy person, I’m a busy person, you multitask, I have I right now have the Nets, the Celtics game on on my other screen as I’m talking to you, as I have like multiple pages open of docs that I’m referencing.

Rosie Knight: Would I like to have a secondary me? Yes.

Jason Concepcion: Do you think that? Do you think that Wanda, much like we do with our one body, are terrible one like awful shitty one one little meat puppet body? Do you think that she was like, You know what? This is a lot of work looking for my kids throughout the infinite reaches of reality. What I need to do is make another me who will then, you know, do all the work while I have tea on the porch. Do we think that’s what Wanda did?

Rosie Knight: So I think that is a I think that’s essentially it. But I think that Wanda’s powers are so strong that she realized she could essentially almost like Astral Project the Scarlet Witch outside of herself to do the magic stuff while she does her own thing now, something somehow that has only just come to me, which feels so ridiculous because I think about this stuff way too much. It seems very simple to me that the issue that we are going to have in the Multiverse of Madness is that split, right? Ascension Astral, the astral projection magic side of Wanda becomes its own thing through this search and want and obviously it’s Wanda, so it has the want for the children, but it maybe doesn’t have the moral scope of the human life that wonder is left. And then that’s why we end up potentially with a wonder who is on the side of Strange and a Scarlet Witch as this, which would make a lot of sense as to why they essentially specified the Scarlet Witch as almost its own entity, which is not really a thing in the comic. It’s not like the Phoenix Fauci. This is for another day, but the Scarlet Witch is just dream gray and the Phoenix Force basically

Jason Concepcion: the red hair, the red costume.

Rosie Knight: I’m so interested to see how they redefine her hair to separate that as we move to an X-Men type world. But I think that I think we might have just cracked it. I think that Stinger is so key, and I do truly believe, like in the comics Wonder and Pietro in this small part of canon, that’s been retcon, but I love it. They’re raised in not wanting to go away. The High Evolutionary is a scientist who’s made all these human animal hybrids, and they’re raised by this cow human hybrid called. And this feels to me like Wanda is gone to amount one to go ask location somewhere where she can be quiet. So I wouldn’t be surprised. I don’t think we’re going to see animal human hybrids, though we all are going to see Red Cross. I was kind of closer to Bova than I thought.

Jason Concepcion: I mean, we’re we’re watching the animal human hybrids kind of in Moon Knight.

Rosie Knight: Yeah, that’s true.

Jason Concepcion: Whether that’s connected or not, I highly doubt. But still, it is the thing we’re seeing right now.

Rosie Knight: I think there’s I think there’s space to delve deeper. So, you know, people always say to us like, Hey, what comic should we read? And I think that this, if you can go, they do collections of these. If you can get that those to the four issue mini series by Bill Wrigley and Audie and then the Steve Engelhart Longer 12 issue series you will really get. It’s a really nice accompaniment to WandaVision, but it’s also one. It’s just brilliant comics, but also it’s going to lead in to. Multiverse of Madness and play a kind of role in how we see Wanda and the return of Vision, which is are we going to see Vision and Multiverse of Madness? I don’t know.

Rosie Knight: I think white vision is going to be around like for a while, right? Like, it’s certainly like the body is back and the personality we would assume is going to be somewhat different and more robotic. But like keys around, one thing I wanted to bring up is the end credits like. So this is a show WandaVision that just brings you into the story after a short like ketchup, no credits. And then the credits happen at the end of the story. And the credits, of course, are this kind of like television screen, very stylized with these kind of like shapes of color, and the colors are like red, green, blue representing, you know, depending on how you want to, how you want to interpret it. Certainly red for our our our friend Wanda, Green for vision and blue for who. So there’s a part in the in the end credits where you see these this little like pill made up of three separate kind of like squares of of color, right? And it kind of like flips through the screen. One side is red and the other side is is red, green, blue, red for Wanda Blue, for for Billy Green, for Tommy or Vision or Quicksilver, right? Mm hmm. And then as it spins. It’s spin spin spins and then both sides are red, you know, symbolizing in my interpretation that it’s all one one is creating all of this. It’s it all comes back to her. Just another. Kind of like manifestation of how like reality shifting powerful Wanda has become and. How that that will impact the movies in major ways, because you can’t beat someone who is this powerful without it having having a lot of really, really severe effects.

Rosie Knight: You know, I was just going to say as well. So I mean, we kind of didn’t touch on Kathryn Hahn as Agatha Harkness. So amazing, like an iconic Marvel character, witchy icon legend. I will just say if we’re talking about ways that can impact in the future. Agatha Harkness was first introduced as a babysitter for the Fantastic Four’s kid.

Jason Concepcion: Yes. That is a big that is a big deal

Rosie Knight: We’re going to have this kind of like fun Agatha Harkness TV series with Kathryn Hahn. And I just think with Kang in the picture, we shouldn’t be surprised if we start to see that stuff coming sooner rather than later, because these these characters who seem secondary and I mean, that would include wonder and vision too. Like in the pre MCU times, they are heralding massive changes in the massive changes. And Catherine, you know, they gave her that series because she was so brilliant and people love to an absolute banger of a song. It was Agatha all along,

CLIP: but that’s, you know, everything had been Agatha all.

Rosie Knight: But like, I think that that is a really big deal and another kind of fun thing. I thought for a little time that Kang may have been the big bad in one division. I was a little bit early, apparently because that was low key, but that in in the issue where they reveal that wonder is the nexus being. The reason we find out is because Kang wants to marry Wanda and be in partnership with this. Next is being the most powerful being can connect to every single. Reality and timeline in the multiverse. So while I don’t think they’re going to do like a weird kang hypnotizes Wanda, marriage is slightly problematic. But I do think that as we move into Multiverse of Madness, we are going to see that aspect of Wanda, the nexus being aspect. And potentially Kang is the king of the timelines. In all his different forms. There has been a version of him who has cared about them, who’s wanted to prune them, who’s wanted to take them over. So while I don’t know if Kang is going to be in the major storyline of Multiverse of Madness, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a Kang style kang style stinger.

Jason Concepcion: Kang’s got to be the Stinger, right? Because I keep thinking, you know, with with 11 under trailer, it kind of off topic, but like on topic, where’s king? Yeah, we’ve interesting. Or we expect him anyway to be the big bads Santos of this phase, right? Mm hmm. He was not in no way home is not in certainly from what we have seen Multiverse of Madness, except maybe in the Stinger. But certainly there’s been nothing to suggest that he’s there is not in love and thunder from what we’ve seen, and we know gore is going to be the bad guy. So in order to keep that thread going, I would expect both Multiverse of Madness and Thor Love and Thunder to have some sort of either one or both to have some sort of Tang centric stinger. Well, because how else are they going to keep this thread of, Hey, remember that guy?

Rosie Knight: And he was so good? Jonathan Majors was so brilliant in that final episode of Loki. It’s my favorite episode just because of how wonderful he is, and I think the first two episodes of that series alike stellar. But his performance is so brilliant and we know he’s going to be in quantumania, so it would make sense to start receiving that. I think to kind of tragic likelihood is that. Whatever happens in Multiverse of Madness and the kind of cosmic implications and notion of the power of wonder going through the multiverse, destroying it, creating it, whichever happens, it could be that that is what a lot. Yeah, the khang in the past to the multiverse. And then we could end up in a situation where they’re trying to stop that gang from pruning the multiverse, you know? So I think that could be something like that where retroactively we are seeing the thing that made Kang Gang. I think that could kind of be it, because the amount of power Wanda has should have already alerted some people to some things from one division. And it seems like it’s only getting more powerful.

Jason Concepcion: I guess there is a world in which we do see Jonathan Majors as either Dr. Truman Reed Richards as a member of the Illuminati.

Rosie Knight: Our favorite fan serious. I would like to see it.

Jason Concepcion: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which comes out May six. This has been a super fun conversation. I can’t wait to talk more about this. Up next, nerd out.

Jason Concepcion: In today’s Nerd Out, where you tell us what you love and why Steve pitches us on the works of Brandon Sanderson,

Listener Steve: Hey Jason, it’s Steve, my nerd out submission. Are the books written by Brandon Sanderson? Brandon is probably, in my opinion, the best fantasy writer out there right now, and it’s not even close when Brandon first started writing. He took over the old time series for Robert Jordan and, in my opinion, did a great job of finishing that up. But the wheel of time is not what I’m recommending. I’m recommending Brandon Zone works in something called the Cosmi. The Kazmir is the universe where multiple series that Brandon is writing take place. He has his main series called The Storm Late Archive, that currently has four books out, with the fifth due next fall or winter. He also has missed spawn. This is a already completed trilogy that can be read at any time. There is a follow up trilogy to this spawn called the Wax and Wane Series, with three more books, with a fourth completed this fall and then in. Brandon also has a few standalone books that aren’t part of a series but take place in the same universe known as the Kazmir. Brandon’s world building and magic systems he creates for his books are just amazing. The guy does not lack for ideas. He loves to give you the unexpected. I can’t tell you how many times I’ll read his works expecting X to happen, only to get why he is known for just going with the unexpected, turning a trope on its head so you get something completely new. What’s cool about the Kazmir is that each series can stand on its own, and you’re not required to read anything else. But some of his characters are known to pop up in other books series under different names, and it’s up to you, the reader, to figure out who they are and when they show up. I first discovered Brandon’s books while I was tired of rereading a Song of Ice and Fire in waiting and waiting for Winds of Winter. And during that wait, I came across the first book in the Storm Late Archive, and I was hooked immediately. The storm light books are great. They’re a lot to dig into as each book is about a thousand pages. I would recommend starting with the Spawn trilogy. Each book is about five or six hundred pages. The main character, Ben, is this badass 19 year old girl, and I’ll leave it for you to find out what happens to her. I think what’s best about Brandon is he just loves to give it back to the fan community is the anti-matter, and all he does is writes and puts out content. He just broke records on Kickstarter, raising $40 million because he wrote four novels in secret during the pandemic. In addition to all the other stuff he was working on, he found the time to write four new books, and his fans were just stoked and gobbled it up. I can’t say enough about the guy. He’s he’s great. His books are great, and you won’t be disappointed with anything you read.

Jason Concepcion: Thanks, Steve for submitting. If you want to be featured, send your nerd out pitch to XRay@crooked.com. Instructions in the show notes I should add if you’re a fan of Brandon Sanderson. He’s got a great YouTube channel in which he posts a lot of his lectures about how he goes about writing fantasy, and I found them very useful over time. Big thank you to Rosie Knight for joining us on X-Ray Vision. Rosie, we couldn’t have done it without you once again. What have you to plug for us this week?

Jason Concepcion: Hello again, it’s me. I was on to that and like, I’ve been away for a while. I’m like, Hi, it’s Rosie Knight. Hey, I’m on the show. Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram. I have been doing my usual Easter eggs for Moon Knight at Nerdist. I do call comic book stuff at Polygon. I’m hopefully going to have some really cool stuff coming out there soon. I also have a letterbox, where I’ve been very good this year about actually posting what I watch. And also, if you want to dig more into WandaVision, my WandaVision coverage at Nerdist was extensive and that is an understatement. So there’s every kind of theory explain our reading list. There’s reading lists based on issue numbers that are in Easter eggs in the show. There’s all different kinds of stuff that I think is, I’m really proud of that era. This show was very it was very special to me, so that was definitely fun. An update is that while I cannot announce the exact date, my comic book, yes, it does have a new release date, which is slightly later. And. Hopefully, the be the publisher will do a huge. It’s going to be a big announcement soon and then we will be able to let you know when you can preorder it with me and Oliver will be doing signings and all kinds of other fun stuff that we will tell you about next week.

Jason Concepcion: Yes. A lot of fun stuff that we will tell you about. Check out our videos on the uncultured YouTube channel in the show notes for the listeners guide to X-ray Vision, where you can find all the details about what we talk about and you can pick and choose what you want to hear about, depending on your spoiler, as your interest level, et cetera. Catch the next episode on April 29th, when our good friend Cody Ziegler of Spire Punk fame of She-Hulk fame joins us again, and of course, more Doctor Strange Prep coming up next week. Don’t forget, folks like the Darkhold says you must give us five stars or the Hex will fall upon you forever and ever, ever. As far as Khonshu says, don’t forget the five star ratings wherever you get your podcast, folks. X-ray vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Our editing and sound design by Vasilis Fotopoulis, Delon Villanueva and Matt DeGroot provide video production support to Alex Reliford handles social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music. Bye bye.